Of course this isn't a bad thing, my favorite part about the above listed games are there instanced areas and quests. My real question is how many of these things can Warhammer realisticly pump out, would it be possibly to get 1 per level, maybe ajustable difficulty? I know that might be a bit hopeful but WoW instances run about a new one every 3-5 levels, not counting the 8 or so that are aimed at the end game. Of course in WoW it can take up to 10 full runs through some instances to level so that sort of makes the point moot.
At the risk of being nitpicky with your questions already answered, I'd just like to add that there are only 4 levels in WAR You gain 10 ranks within each, but they aren't making you stronger, only more versatile. The four tiers though will make you more powerful along with racial things like orcs growing larger and dwarves growing longer bears, chaos looking more chaotic and such.
From the latest podcast it seems like there's one huge, main zone for each tier for each race, and it will sport at least one public quest along with the other types of events going on there. There being three allied races that makes a total of 12, excluding the contested t4 zones and cities if they'll have them. I'm hoping there'll be even more public quests, but haven't read anything myself in specific on the topic
Someone was afraid of people camping inside the influence area, but I don't think you need to worry about that affecting your own play. It doesn't seem to be like in f.ex Guild Wars were an afk member can ruin your instance by taking up a slot because in WAR it's a public area.
The word atm is that some of these quest can help (if sucsessful) aor hurt (if failure) your pvp effort , others might take place in rvr areas or aginst the enemy but in a pve area (no pve but questiogn missioning agist the enemy to over coem their efforts). The ideas are much more interactive then simple area quests. (think extream AV help quests plus loot and experince),
I think they will work great , at least they have the capacity too , however, everythign is about implenmentation.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Of course this isn't a bad thing, my favorite part about the above listed games are there instanced areas and quests. My real question is how many of these things can Warhammer realisticly pump out, would it be possibly to get 1 per level, maybe ajustable difficulty? I know that might be a bit hopeful but WoW instances run about a new one every 3-5 levels, not counting the 8 or so that are aimed at the end game. Of course in WoW it can take up to 10 full runs through some instances to level so that sort of makes the point moot.
At the risk of being nitpicky with your questions already answered, I'd just like to add that there are only 4 levels in WAR You gain 10 ranks within each, but they aren't making you stronger, only more versatile. The four tiers though will make you more powerful along with racial things like orcs growing larger and dwarves growing longer bears, chaos looking more chaotic and such.
From the latest podcast it seems like there's one huge, main zone for each tier for each race, and it will sport at least one public quest along with the other types of events going on there. There being three allied races that makes a total of 12, excluding the contested t4 zones and cities if they'll have them. I'm hoping there'll be even more public quests, but haven't read anything myself in specific on the topic
Someone was afraid of people camping inside the influence area, but I don't think you need to worry about that affecting your own play. It doesn't seem to be like in f.ex Guild Wars were an afk member can ruin your instance by taking up a slot because in WAR it's a public area.
Not from mwhat i understand i believe every rank will make you stronger, and teirs a beanchmarks for improvement and content areas. But i 1005 so far see a t1 r 1 much weaker then a t1 r9. Does that mean the r1 can not hurt the r9 ... no . just that the r9 will most likely win 80+% of the time (differences will most likely be less at higher levels has you have the backign of abilities from previous teirs).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Bad idea. Unless people make constant new characters,or if WAR will become the next WoW (which it won't) after a while, those quest area's will be deserted, and new players will find it more difficult to level up.
I wonder if some high lvl heroes go in such area and make the quest (and they dont get much expirience), will the little lvl heroes around them get little too,or they will get like the full expiriance or something like that ....
Leary, lets do something different, but not too different. Dang, why are all these games the same? lol...
Yeah, because that's exactly what I said. Nice reading comprehension.
No, it is called sarcasm. lol. Wow. Just wow! I knew it was sarcasm, and my post reflected it, too.
I was being sarcastic, too, because you totally misunderstood my entire original post.
If you could read and comprehend what you read, you would've seen that I said that I would have to see how it all played out to know whether I liked it or not. Never did I condemn their original idea; therefore, condemning originality in games.
But I digress, because arguing with someone who puts "lol" in their every post is pointless.
Few years ago I was pushing the idea of groups that would benefit from working towards a common goal, without the formality of grouping. I gave examples, such as keep defense and HL raids in DAOC, and insta-spawning mobs in AO. I think it brings people together, better than the normal group situation which pits players against eachother, as they compete for spawns. I suggested content which would encourage this, and could do so in a way that's less of the cluster**** situation that occurs when players find content which just inadvertantly make it possibe.
I was an avid DAOC player at the time, mostly posting to DAOC forums. Probably ranting about TOA.. Guess they ignored all my brilliance on how to fix that, but somehow, an idea or two may have gotten someone at Mythic thinking about future game development. Plus, I created the interweb
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Originally posted by Gameloading Bad idea. Unless people make constant new characters,or if WAR will become the next WoW (which it won't) after a while, those quest area's will be deserted, and new players will find it more difficult to level up.
An important part of thinking outside the box is thinking about how to make it work. If something turns out to be problematic, that might just be a good sign that there's some innovation involved. So, figure it out.
e.g. what if the size of the quest scales to the number of appropriate level characters in the area? Or to make that less predictable, the quest could track average numbers of players in the area over the course of a week, and scale to that. Whether or not to take time of day into account, because of how much harder it may be at 4am EST, could be debated either way. Then maybe toss in a little random variation, just to mix it up a bit.
Granted, what might be a wonderful epic shortly after launch might end up rather pathetic two years later, but eh, not such a big deal.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Bad idea. Unless people make constant new characters,or if WAR will become the next WoW (which it won't) after a while, those quest area's will be deserted, and new players will find it more difficult to level up.
Well, in theory, if no one is there but one guy, as long as the public quest is something he can work on by himself, the more he does by himself the more rewarding the exp will be for him. You are given experience based on how much you assist in the quest. If he does most of it by himself he gets more experience....in theory, dun dun dun. So he can't complete the whole chain, but it's still exp.
Also, Mythic has stated that you don't have to participate in the public quests, so, if you don't decide to do them, it shouldn't be THAT much more difficult to make exp.
[Here's a list of all the games I've played and/or my computer specs to show how much more seasoned or technologically advanced I am than you.]
Bad idea. Unless people make constant new characters,or if WAR will become the next WoW (which it won't) after a while, those quest area's will be deserted, and new players will find it more difficult to level up.
Nobody wants Warhammer to be the next Warcraft. The only people that draw comparisons between Warhammer and Warcraft are the ones that think Warcraft was the first and best MMO.
As far as High Levels helping Low Levels (or tiers/ranks if you prefer) it is not inconceivable that once you progress to the higher tiers you would be locked out of lower ones. Otherwise you will always have guild mates killing for lower levels. Of course if a Tier 4/Rank 10 kills the Big boss in a Tier 1 zone, he'll effectively drain the XP gain from lower Tiers by doing all the work.
No mention was made of drops/loot/swag/end reward either. Depending on how that is structured, might help negate highs helping lows.
As far as High Levels helping Low Levels (or tiers/ranks if you prefer) it is not inconceivable that once you progress to the higher tiers you would be locked out of lower ones. Otherwise you will always have guild mates killing for lower levels. Of course if a Tier 4/Rank 10 kills the Big boss in a Tier 1 zone, he'll effectively drain the XP gain from lower Tiers by doing all the work.
No mention was made of drops/loot/swag/end reward either. Depending on how that is structured, might help negate highs helping lows.
The way the described the loot from the PQ is that the more you contribute, the better the loot. I think they called it Influence. The more Influence you gain the better your loot. There's a loot table that shows you what you get, and there are three levels. The third being Elite, and requiring the most effort and probably requiring most to do the PQ several times. While it might be grinding, you know exactly what you're getting at Point A, B, and C, so it's not like you could replay a PQ and get nothing a hundred times, since the loot isn't based on drops.
--------------------------------------------- I live to fight, and fight to live.
Bad idea. Unless people make constant new characters,or if WAR will become the next WoW (which it won't) after a while, those quest area's will be deserted, and new players will find it more difficult to level up.
This post makes no sense.
Why would the area ever be deserted? I have never found areas of any level in any game to suddenly dry up from players. It's not like everyone as a whole just advances beyond the level limits of a zone-- there's always a good spread in any well made game. Even in WoW, where server poulations are limited and the server is an old one, the low and mid level zones stiil maintain a healthy level of population.
I don't believe I've ever seen anything like this implemented in a MMORPG I've played, so the idea sounds truly interesting. Warhammer went from a "meh" to something I am looking forward to.
When playing WoW, I have a lone level 60 who's a DPS specced warrior. I play it that way because I find it efficient and fun, and I do not enjoy playing defense. Unfortunately, the attitude in grouping a high level is that tanking is where it's at, and as a result, I rarely get a shot to prove my worth due to the presumption of whatever pug or guild is looking only for def-specced tanks. A open quest system like the one above would strike me as both a little more realistic, and would allow players like myself a chance to enjoy grouping without the politics and presumptions.
Originally posted by alienpriest Originally posted by Gameloading Bad idea. Unless people make constant new characters,or if WAR will become the next WoW (which it won't) after a while, those quest area's will be deserted, and new players will find it more difficult to level up.
This post makes no sense.
Why would the area ever be deserted? I have never found areas of any level in any game to suddenly dry up from players. It's not like everyone as a whole just advances beyond the level limits of a zone-- there's always a good spread in any well made game.
Heh, no offense, but you're not exactly a veteran MMORPG player, are you?
Originally posted by alienpriest Even in WoW...
Ah, of course Not the best example. Probably the worst. Gameloading even says as much in the post you're replying to.
Bad idea. Unless people make constant new characters,or if WAR will become the next WoW (which it won't) after a while, those quest area's will be deserted, and new players will find it more difficult to level up.
Not a problem.
PQs are far from the only way to level up. You can do it through regular PvE quests or through PvP as well (obviously, if the zone is abandoned, you're stuck with PvE though.) PQs is just there so that when a large amount of people are gathered in the same zone, they've got something to work together on together.
If you're all alone in the zone, you can still get the rewards though (if you really, really feel you have to for some reason). Take the "Chop wood, fight dryads, fight treeman" PQ in the article. The first part you can solo. Just gather in enough wood. When enough wood is gathered, dryads attack. Maybe you can beat them, maybe you can't. If you can't, the PQ resets after a while. You can then start gathering wood again. All parts give influence towards the same reward. It doesn't matter if you gather wood several times or just kill the Treeman several times. You get the same reward in the end either way.
The PQ system is one of many reasons I'm watching Warhammer with interest but there's one point that everyone seems to have missed (at least I don't think it's been mentioned yet)
One of the problems with grouping if you're not already in some big guild is not just finding a group, but *gathering* them together. For example, City of Heroes had an adequate (not great but good enough) grouping system but even with super-movement powers like teleportation it could take a while just to get the group together to the mission entrance.
That's assuming you're not wasting your time waiting for some idiot who joins then group decides to go AFK making everyone else sit around. That's time wasted when I could be doing something fun, like playing the game I'm paying to play.
The Public Quest system not only solves the LFG problem, it solves the group gathering problem. If you're in the PQ area there's no need travel, you're already in the place for the quest. No more waiting around for that fool who 'just has to do something' before they actually get their character to where they're supposed to be.
It's basically the same as when you're in an area killing certain mobs for a quest and run into someone doing the same thing. That's when I most often ask for a group since it's obvious we have the same goal and we're both there so why not group? The PQ system takes this a step further and allows the 'group' to be everyone in the PQ area. It's an innovstive idea and it will be interesting to see if Mythic can make it work
Another nice thing about this system is that it sounds like these things will spawn raid-style mobs like CIty of Heroes monsters. The CoH monsters were a nice way for the server community to join together in a common goal and this mechanic should work well in WAR. WAR improves on it, however, by allowing the players to cause the spawning of the big boss mobs, rather than having them as random (and sometimes annoyingly rare) spawns as they were in CoH.
AFAIK some or all PQs will also be a part of the RvR. So you are working against the other side even in questing.
And Leray: You wanted to know how do you know what stage of the quest it is on before entering the area? Pretty simple, when you enter the area, a popup tells you that you are in a PQ area and what you need to do.
Comments
At the risk of being nitpicky with your questions already answered, I'd just like to add that there are only 4 levels in WAR
You gain 10 ranks within each, but they aren't making you stronger, only more versatile. The four tiers though will make you more powerful along with racial things like orcs growing larger and dwarves growing longer bears, chaos looking more chaotic and such.
From the latest podcast it seems like there's one huge, main zone for each tier for each race, and it will sport at least one public quest along with the other types of events going on there. There being three allied races that makes a total of 12, excluding the contested t4 zones and cities if they'll have them. I'm hoping there'll be even more public quests, but haven't read anything myself in specific on the topic
Someone was afraid of people camping inside the influence area, but I don't think you need to worry about that affecting your own play. It doesn't seem to be like in f.ex Guild Wars were an afk member can ruin your instance by taking up a slot because in WAR it's a public area.
No, it is called sarcasm. lol.
I think they will work great , at least they have the capacity too , however, everythign is about implenmentation.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
At the risk of being nitpicky with your questions already answered, I'd just like to add that there are only 4 levels in WAR
You gain 10 ranks within each, but they aren't making you stronger, only more versatile. The four tiers though will make you more powerful along with racial things like orcs growing larger and dwarves growing longer bears, chaos looking more chaotic and such.
From the latest podcast it seems like there's one huge, main zone for each tier for each race, and it will sport at least one public quest along with the other types of events going on there. There being three allied races that makes a total of 12, excluding the contested t4 zones and cities if they'll have them. I'm hoping there'll be even more public quests, but haven't read anything myself in specific on the topic
Someone was afraid of people camping inside the influence area, but I don't think you need to worry about that affecting your own play. It doesn't seem to be like in f.ex Guild Wars were an afk member can ruin your instance by taking up a slot because in WAR it's a public area.
Not from mwhat i understand i believe every rank will make you stronger, and teirs a beanchmarks for improvement and content areas. But i 1005 so far see a t1 r 1 much weaker then a t1 r9. Does that mean the r1 can not hurt the r9 ... no . just that the r9 will most likely win 80+% of the time (differences will most likely be less at higher levels has you have the backign of abilities from previous teirs).
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
over older games and Warhammer's Public Quest System takes it farther toward perfection.
No, it is called sarcasm. lol. Wow. Just wow! I knew it was sarcasm, and my post reflected it, too.
I was being sarcastic, too, because you totally misunderstood my entire original post.
If you could read and comprehend what you read, you would've seen that I said that I would have to see how it all played out to know whether I liked it or not. Never did I condemn their original idea; therefore, condemning originality in games.
But I digress, because arguing with someone who puts "lol" in their every post is pointless.
Few years ago I was pushing the idea of groups that would benefit from working towards a common goal, without the formality of grouping. I gave examples, such as keep defense and HL raids in DAOC, and insta-spawning mobs in AO. I think it brings people together, better than the normal group situation which pits players against eachother, as they compete for spawns. I suggested content which would encourage this, and could do so in a way that's less of the cluster**** situation that occurs when players find content which just inadvertantly make it possibe.
I was an avid DAOC player at the time, mostly posting to DAOC forums. Probably ranting about TOA.. Guess they ignored all my brilliance on how to fix that, but somehow, an idea or two may have gotten someone at Mythic thinking about future game development. Plus, I created the interweb
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
An important part of thinking outside the box is thinking about how to make it work. If something turns out to be problematic, that might just be a good sign that there's some innovation involved. So, figure it out.
e.g. what if the size of the quest scales to the number of appropriate level characters in the area? Or to make that less predictable, the quest could track average numbers of players in the area over the course of a week, and scale to that. Whether or not to take time of day into account, because of how much harder it may be at 4am EST, could be debated either way. Then maybe toss in a little random variation, just to mix it up a bit.
Granted, what might be a wonderful epic shortly after launch might end up rather pathetic two years later, but eh, not such a big deal.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Also, Mythic has stated that you don't have to participate in the public quests, so, if you don't decide to do them, it shouldn't be THAT much more difficult to make exp.
[Here's a list of all the games I've played and/or my computer specs to show how much more seasoned or technologically advanced I am than you.]
As far as High Levels helping Low Levels (or tiers/ranks if you prefer) it is not inconceivable that once you progress to the higher tiers you would be locked out of lower ones. Otherwise you will always have guild mates killing for lower levels. Of course if a Tier 4/Rank 10 kills the Big boss in a Tier 1 zone, he'll effectively drain the XP gain from lower Tiers by doing all the work.
No mention was made of drops/loot/swag/end reward either. Depending on how that is structured, might help negate highs helping lows.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
Why would the area ever be deserted? I have never found areas of any level in any game to suddenly dry up from players. It's not like everyone as a whole just advances beyond the level limits of a zone-- there's always a good spread in any well made game. Even in WoW, where server poulations are limited and the server is an old one, the low and mid level zones stiil maintain a healthy level of population.
http://erickveil.com/
I don't believe I've ever seen anything like this implemented in a MMORPG I've played, so the idea sounds truly interesting. Warhammer went from a "meh" to something I am looking forward to.
When playing WoW, I have a lone level 60 who's a DPS specced warrior. I play it that way because I find it efficient and fun, and I do not enjoy playing defense. Unfortunately, the attitude in grouping a high level is that tanking is where it's at, and as a result, I rarely get a shot to prove my worth due to the presumption of whatever pug or guild is looking only for def-specced tanks. A open quest system like the one above would strike me as both a little more realistic, and would allow players like myself a chance to enjoy grouping without the politics and presumptions.
Current MMOs: Rift, GW2, Defiance
Blog: http://realmsofchirak.blogspot.com (old school tabletop gaming and more)
Why would the area ever be deserted? I have never found areas of any level in any game to suddenly dry up from players. It's not like everyone as a whole just advances beyond the level limits of a zone-- there's always a good spread in any well made game.
Heh, no offense, but you're not exactly a veteran MMORPG player, are you?
Ah, of course
Not the best example. Probably the worst. Gameloading even says as much in the post you're replying to.
Not a problem.
PQs are far from the only way to level up. You can do it through regular PvE quests or through PvP as well (obviously, if the zone is abandoned, you're stuck with PvE though.) PQs is just there so that when a large amount of people are gathered in the same zone, they've got something to work together on together.
If you're all alone in the zone, you can still get the rewards though (if you really, really feel you have to for some reason). Take the "Chop wood, fight dryads, fight treeman" PQ in the article. The first part you can solo. Just gather in enough wood. When enough wood is gathered, dryads attack. Maybe you can beat them, maybe you can't. If you can't, the PQ resets after a while. You can then start gathering wood again. All parts give influence towards the same reward. It doesn't matter if you gather wood several times or just kill the Treeman several times. You get the same reward in the end either way.
The PQ system is one of many reasons I'm watching Warhammer with interest but there's one point that everyone seems to have missed (at least I don't think it's been mentioned yet)
One of the problems with grouping if you're not already in some big guild is not just finding a group, but *gathering* them together. For example, City of Heroes had an adequate (not great but good enough) grouping system but even with super-movement powers like teleportation it could take a while just to get the group together to the mission entrance.
That's assuming you're not wasting your time waiting for some idiot who joins then group decides to go AFK making everyone else sit around. That's time wasted when I could be doing something fun, like playing the game I'm paying to play.
The Public Quest system not only solves the LFG problem, it solves the group gathering problem. If you're in the PQ area there's no need travel, you're already in the place for the quest. No more waiting around for that fool who 'just has to do something' before they actually get their character to where they're supposed to be.
It's basically the same as when you're in an area killing certain mobs for a quest and run into someone doing the same thing. That's when I most often ask for a group since it's obvious we have the same goal and we're both there so why not group? The PQ system takes this a step further and allows the 'group' to be everyone in the PQ area. It's an innovstive idea and it will be interesting to see if Mythic can make it work
Another nice thing about this system is that it sounds like these things will spawn raid-style mobs like CIty of Heroes monsters. The CoH monsters were a nice way for the server community to join together in a common goal and this mechanic should work well in WAR. WAR improves on it, however, by allowing the players to cause the spawning of the big boss mobs, rather than having them as random (and sometimes annoyingly rare) spawns as they were in CoH.
And Leray: You wanted to know how do you know what stage of the quest it is on before entering the area? Pretty simple, when you enter the area, a popup tells you that you are in a PQ area and what you need to do.