I'm new to the game having only played for about a month, and after reading pretty much all the info i could find about this i'm quite disheartened. Lots of people say that devs should play the game cause they will get a better understanding about it, sure that's true BUT since they are developers they know things before the community, maybe they know some upcoming change that will make an item alot better and therefore it will be worth alot more..
Or what if someone petitions the devs character and his coworker 2 desks away is the one answering it? It will never be fair if you play against devs.. in a perfect world with perfect people this wouldn't be a problem but it isn't a perfect world.
I do understand that they want to play "their" game.. but i don't see any other way to solve this problem.
Any time you play in a game where the devs care enough to play the game themselves (for a game where they didn't play, try SWG, a total disaster) this kind of situation may arise from time to time.
Since it is still less than a week since the incident was uncovered and CCP seems to be taking adequate steps to bring about a satisfactory conclusion, I am more than willing to give them more time and see what they finally do. After all, they have announced that they will be going public with the result of their investigation before the weekend, still less than a week since they originally became aware of the problem.
Well it sucks that this has happened. But it does show the devs care enough about the game to actualy play there creation that they spend endless houring working on every day. That does go to say something there.
I do think and hope that the people that where involved from the Dev team have there powers removed from the game. I dont mind that they play the game like other players and know about stuff before us. Its going to happen no matter what game you goto where devs play the game. From WoW to UO to EQ when the devs played they knew and planned for things that was still being designed months away from release. But I must agree with alot of people that powers of these people need to be very limited if not non at all. Is there a reasion the lead designer has the ability to create a item at will on a live server? (Maybe on a test server or a private server yes. But not a live enviroment) Only a very select few people should have such ability and if misused they need to be replaced and removed from the game both job wise and there ability to play it.
I know I wouldnt trust a dev that did this if he was within my company. Whos to say he wont do the same with the games source code if a good deal arose or he got mad one day?
what most of you do not know is that most of the info that was turned over to CCP was gathered illegally by a hacker that hacked in to corp forums and in to peoples accounts fore the game this person has ben band rum the game now but Y shood CCP bee taking illegally gathered information rum a hacker that told the eve community his hole gole it to get ever member of BOB one of the biggest alliances in the game because he could not defeat then in game he decided to commit a crime and then he gave all the info to CCP and they acted on it dus this make CCP any better then the hacker that committed several crimes to get the info ?????
what most of you do not know is that most of the info that was turned over to CCP was gathered illegally by a hacker that hacked in to corp forums and in to peoples accounts fore the game this person has ben band rum the game now but Y shood CCP bee taking illegally gathered information rum a hacker that told the eve community his hole gole it to get ever member of BOB one of the biggest alliances in the game because he could not defeat then in game he decided to commit a crime and then he gave all the info to CCP and they acted on it dus this make CCP any better then the hacker that committed several crimes to get the info ?????
Regardless how the information was obtained (leaked, hacked, whatever) the fact that a Staff member abused his powers to give his or the alliance he is in more power (through advanced know-how or items or whatever) is wrong. There is no right to that no matter how you look at that information. Reather a hacker hacked into the guys account to find out said information or whatever if the staff member did do what he was accused of them he needs to be repremanded for the actions. Any information from any source should always be looked into. No matter where the source came from if it has the slightest chance of actuly being true legit information of abuse of the system.
Very disappointed by how things have turned out so far. Nothing was really said. CCP didn't show any effort to address the problem. I think one of the posters said it best:
"I am not paying 15$ so that your developers can enjoy the game or have fun - I am paying 15$ so that *I* can have fun."
That really sums up everything IMO. People are upset because they feel they are paying for a game that the Devs are having fun in at the expense of it's customers. Very unfortunate turn of events. I hope they will post more on this subject and not let it go. If they do, I don't think anything good can happen to CCP.
Well, perhaps if you read his comments, you would know why, and not have to ask. Just a thought. /me rolls her eyes
Taken from the EVE forums (kieran's answer):
"I am closing the thread to further discussion. It was my hope that the replies to the original statement would remain on topic, but due to the lack of clarity in that statement this was not the case.
To those that are saying, "CCP will sweep this under the rug and not offer further comment", you are incorrect. More information and answers will be posted before the start of the weekend.
In the interim, please do not open new threads about this topic. Members of the EVE community will have an opportunity to voice their opinions and comments shortly."
So they are basically shutting people up because they want to decide how the spin on the story should go. Anybody offering alternating oppinions up until the point where they have decided what the official version is, they try to keep people silent, in the dark, split up, and unable to discuss on the most obvious forum available.
I know they own their game as well as their forums, but perhaps they shouldn't be so afraid that players have an oppinion and/or an involvement in their precious creation.
For me to see, the best solution for CCP right now is to state that any people involved with CCP in any way, shape, or form is prohibited from participating in the EVE online game outside of the test server. Sort of like the non-participant clause of many gameshows, competitions, and professional companies. It is called conflict of interest and it is based on the human condition. You can't remove the first without removing the second.
I dont want to talk about eve anymore on mmorpg.com already 2 negative posts related to dev issue but 1 oft he developers joined to bob and forums at 2005 and used xxx .ccpgames mail adress,You can find more info at kugutsumens web page.In game name of developerwas Thryr Merim.this shows clearly bob were knowing they had dev and ccp did not take any action until this posted
Originally posted by emptyballoon
If BoB did cheat, its gonna be great fun on the forums. Every BoB poster can be told to "shut up, cheaters words mean nothing". Can you imagine the pent up rage that the BoB boys will have. ofc, nothing that happens in the forums matters, but winding up BoB is always good sport.
I hope BoB didn't cheat, they are by far and away the more impressive alliance and it would be sad to think that they only got to be so powerful by cheating. But if they have, gonads should be lost.
Dev ignore the fact that BoB where benefitting from macro-miners in their space
Dev's ignore account sharing and character sales for $$$ within BoB
Where the BPOs donated to bob from a Dev
...................
erm... what about Red Alliance and the complex exploit, that netted them billions.. Since we know that RA has/had devs as members.
And my dear little cosy, way are you forgetting to add the part that BoB had the Macro miners in their space banned after gathering proof that they was indeed macro miners.
As for the Character for £££ sale... 'PROOF OR STFU' I have read the information on your little friends website and there is nothing to say that this is true... you only have Kugutsumen waving his banner saying its true... So please provide proof for everyone to see.
As for the BPO's again please show me proof they was got by cheating..
Sorry cosy, but you only want to belive that bob cheated, and that because the truth is they haven't you feel the need to throw your toys around.. So can I say... "Can I have your stuff" .. after all if your that unhappy with the game why are you going to keep playing.
------------------
So why didnt BOB report the dev in their alliance when it becamse common knowledge to them?
No, because if you don't have the descency to let a dev get on with playing the game as a regular joe, no dev can ever play this game anymore.
You know how easy it is to find out dev acocunts ? All you need to do is combine whatever info you have on him and you've got a fair chance of knowing it for certain. It's not like he'll speak spanish, live in Japan and have an argentenian IP is it ?
I've known about one or two non-bob ccp employees for ages. Some of them are ingame enemies. You won't see me petition CCP to remove their chars because I find that fact hat they play the game more important that the chance to score cheap points against ingame enemies.
as i said in a earlier post in these forums, i dont mind that dev's / gm's play in eve, it is only when they let themselves known, this opens up the whole corp/alliance up to unfair advantages over other alliances/corps.
i think this is the case with BOB, but how do I go about proving my theory, i cant, i just have to look back at the success of BOB exploits in EVE.
Im glad that http://www.kugutsumen.com/ has reopened it's doors, lets fuel the fire once again and get rid of more corrupt dev's / bought ebay accounts / macro miners / cheaters
It's a no-win situation for CCP anyway. No matter what they deceide to do in this matter there will be people complaining on the forums that CCP isnt treating everybody fair.
It is bothersome that CCP refuses to let people talk about this openly on their website, but then again they have always been heavy handed and quick to censor any negativity from the player base. Can a game really become great when all views are not allowed to be heard? I guess CCP is afraid the game cannot stand on its own merits and thus cenors anything negative just like it was running an on going ad campainge.
I find it disappointing that some people want to take what has happened to use it as evident that eve isn't a good game. I don't think that's true. The basic ideas behind the game are fantastic. There is a lot of good things about this game. But like everything, it has it's problems. If you have played eve for a while, you'll know that the game has changed a lot and there use to be far more problems.
CCP has always managed to handle whatever came up before this in a professional manner. Now, they're facing their biggest challenge. While all the facts are not out there, I do believe that CCP made a mistake by allowing devs to get too involved with 0.0 politics to the point where certain alliances gained an unfair advantage over others. This is indeed a game breaking problem, but it's not something that cannot be fixed. CCP has the power to limit dev involvement and get this game back on track. If anything, the eve community is a forgiving one. The most dedicated players have stuck with this game through good times and bad.
The ball is in CCP's court. They still have time to save this game and show some appreciation to some of the most dedicated MMO fans out there. Until now, I've always felt that CCP would do the right thing. I'm not so sure now, but my hope is not all gone. CCP has some hard choices to make. A lot of people are watching. I really hope they do the right thing.
The problem is that EVE has become a worse game due to this.
And it is CCP's and the fans own fault that a lot of people will react like this. EVE has always been marketed as a restraint free sandbox game. There is no hand-holding (outside of the obligatory and necessary tutorial) and no set-in-stone path you should/must take in order to become successful. Do what you want and succeed on your own merits.
That is what is at stake if you look at the problem from an elevated position. Will anybody really believe that you can succeed and compete fairly with anybody else after this? On a one-on-one basis, propably, but the huge political angle in EVE has more or less overnight become extremely suspect.
Where before it was seen as a sort of sign of quality that the devs participated, they are now more viewed as the grey ghosts pulling the strings behind the scenes. Exaggeration most likely but if even a shred of the speculation is true or confirmed, the fragile bottom of the fabled sandbox simply falls out and leaves everybody in a vacuum.
For me to see, CCP has an easy way out: Simply remove all accounts owned by people who is affiliated with CCP from the Live system and set them up on the Test server. The test server is just that, an environment where the rigid laws of the game world isn't as tight nor is expected to be as tight as on the Live system.
It does not address the whole BoB issue regarding what they might or might not have gained but that is propably not going to be solved in any elegant way anyway. It will be a mess no matter what CCP decides to do about it.
Comments
Or what if someone petitions the devs character and his coworker 2 desks away is the one answering it? It will never be fair if you play against devs.. in a perfect world with perfect people this wouldn't be a problem but it isn't a perfect world.
I do understand that they want to play "their" game.. but i don't see any other way to solve this problem.
Any time you play in a game where the devs care enough to play the game themselves (for a game where they didn't play, try SWG, a total disaster) this kind of situation may arise from time to time.
Since it is still less than a week since the incident was uncovered and CCP seems to be taking adequate steps to bring about a satisfactory conclusion, I am more than willing to give them more time and see what they finally do. After all, they have announced that they will be going public with the result of their investigation before the weekend, still less than a week since they originally became aware of the problem.
Well it sucks that this has happened. But it does show the devs care enough about the game to actualy play there creation that they spend endless houring working on every day. That does go to say something there.
I do think and hope that the people that where involved from the Dev team have there powers removed from the game. I dont mind that they play the game like other players and know about stuff before us. Its going to happen no matter what game you goto where devs play the game. From WoW to UO to EQ when the devs played they knew and planned for things that was still being designed months away from release. But I must agree with alot of people that powers of these people need to be very limited if not non at all. Is there a reasion the lead designer has the ability to create a item at will on a live server? (Maybe on a test server or a private server yes. But not a live enviroment) Only a very select few people should have such ability and if misused they need to be replaced and removed from the game both job wise and there ability to play it.
I know I wouldnt trust a dev that did this if he was within my company. Whos to say he wont do the same with the games source code if a good deal arose or he got mad one day?
Enter dark Ebonlore wil rule u all
CCP now wait too see what ppl say
atm CCP is under sh**
here more unusual stuff
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=472306&page=1
ISD get upset after alot of flame
BestSigEver :P
Regardless how the information was obtained (leaked, hacked, whatever) the fact that a Staff member abused his powers to give his or the alliance he is in more power (through advanced know-how or items or whatever) is wrong. There is no right to that no matter how you look at that information. Reather a hacker hacked into the guys account to find out said information or whatever if the staff member did do what he was accused of them he needs to be repremanded for the actions. Any information from any source should always be looked into. No matter where the source came from if it has the slightest chance of actuly being true legit information of abuse of the system.
"I am not paying 15$ so that your developers can enjoy the game or have fun - I am paying 15$ so that *I* can have fun."
That really sums up everything IMO. People are upset because they feel they are paying for a game that the Devs are having fun in at the expense of it's customers. Very unfortunate turn of events. I hope they will post more on this subject and not let it go. If they do, I don't think anything good can happen to CCP.
"I am closing the thread to further discussion. It was my hope that the replies to the original statement would remain on topic, but due to the lack of clarity in that statement this was not the case.
To those that are saying, "CCP will sweep this under the rug and not offer further comment", you are incorrect. More information and answers will be posted before the start of the weekend.
In the interim, please do not open new threads about this topic. Members of the EVE community will have an opportunity to voice their opinions and comments shortly."
So they are basically shutting people up because they want to decide how the spin on the story should go. Anybody offering alternating oppinions up until the point where they have decided what the official version is, they try to keep people silent, in the dark, split up, and unable to discuss on the most obvious forum available.
I know they own their game as well as their forums, but perhaps they shouldn't be so afraid that players have an oppinion and/or an involvement in their precious creation.
For me to see, the best solution for CCP right now is to state that any people involved with CCP in any way, shape, or form is prohibited from participating in the EVE online game outside of the test server. Sort of like the non-participant clause of many gameshows, competitions, and professional companies. It is called conflict of interest and it is based on the human condition. You can't remove the first without removing the second.
I dont want to talk about eve anymore on mmorpg.com already 2 negative posts related to dev issue but 1 oft he developers joined to bob and forums at 2005 and used xxx .ccpgames mail adress,You can find more info at kugutsumens web page.In game name of developerwas Thryr Merim.this shows clearly bob were knowing they had dev and ccp did not take any action until this posted
erm... what about Red Alliance and the complex exploit, that netted them billions.. Since we know that RA has/had devs as members.
And my dear little cosy, way are you forgetting to add the part that BoB had the Macro miners in their space banned after gathering proof that they was indeed macro miners.
As for the Character for £££ sale... 'PROOF OR STFU' I have read the information on your little friends website and there is nothing to say that this is true... you only have Kugutsumen waving his banner saying its true... So please provide proof for everyone to see.
As for the BPO's again please show me proof they was got by cheating..
Sorry cosy, but you only want to belive that bob cheated, and that because the truth is they haven't you feel the need to throw your toys around.. So can I say... "Can I have your stuff" .. after all if your that unhappy with the game why are you going to keep playing.
------------------
So why didnt BOB report the dev in their alliance when it becamse common knowledge to them?
because they wished to abuse his powers!
Now you STFU!
No, because if you don't have the descency to let a dev get on with playing the game as a regular joe, no dev can ever play this game anymore.
You know how easy it is to find out dev acocunts ? All you need to do is combine whatever info you have on him and you've got a fair chance of knowing it for certain. It's not like he'll speak spanish, live in Japan and have an argentenian IP is it ?
I've known about one or two non-bob ccp employees for ages. Some of them are ingame enemies. You won't see me petition CCP to remove their chars because I find that fact hat they play the game more important that the chance to score cheap points against ingame enemies.
i think this is the case with BOB, but how do I go about proving my theory, i cant, i just have to look back at the success of BOB exploits in EVE.
Im glad that http://www.kugutsumen.com/ has reopened it's doors, lets fuel the fire once again and get rid of more corrupt dev's / bought ebay accounts / macro miners / cheaters
It is bothersome that CCP refuses to let people talk about this openly on their website, but then again they have always been heavy handed and quick to censor any negativity from the player base. Can a game really become great when all views are not allowed to be heard? I guess CCP is afraid the game cannot stand on its own merits and thus cenors anything negative just like it was running an on going ad campainge.
CCP has always managed to handle whatever came up before this in a professional manner. Now, they're facing their biggest challenge. While all the facts are not out there, I do believe that CCP made a mistake by allowing devs to get too involved with 0.0 politics to the point where certain alliances gained an unfair advantage over others. This is indeed a game breaking problem, but it's not something that cannot be fixed. CCP has the power to limit dev involvement and get this game back on track. If anything, the eve community is a forgiving one. The most dedicated players have stuck with this game through good times and bad.
The ball is in CCP's court. They still have time to save this game and show some appreciation to some of the most dedicated MMO fans out there. Until now, I've always felt that CCP would do the right thing. I'm not so sure now, but my hope is not all gone. CCP has some hard choices to make. A lot of people are watching. I really hope they do the right thing.
The problem is that EVE has become a worse game due to this.
And it is CCP's and the fans own fault that a lot of people will react like this. EVE has always been marketed as a restraint free sandbox game. There is no hand-holding (outside of the obligatory and necessary tutorial) and no set-in-stone path you should/must take in order to become successful. Do what you want and succeed on your own merits.
That is what is at stake if you look at the problem from an elevated position. Will anybody really believe that you can succeed and compete fairly with anybody else after this? On a one-on-one basis, propably, but the huge political angle in EVE has more or less overnight become extremely suspect.
Where before it was seen as a sort of sign of quality that the devs participated, they are now more viewed as the grey ghosts pulling the strings behind the scenes. Exaggeration most likely but if even a shred of the speculation is true or confirmed, the fragile bottom of the fabled sandbox simply falls out and leaves everybody in a vacuum.
For me to see, CCP has an easy way out: Simply remove all accounts owned by people who is affiliated with CCP from the Live system and set them up on the Test server. The test server is just that, an environment where the rigid laws of the game world isn't as tight nor is expected to be as tight as on the Live system.
It does not address the whole BoB issue regarding what they might or might not have gained but that is propably not going to be solved in any elegant way anyway. It will be a mess no matter what CCP decides to do about it.