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Lessons Mythic should have learned from DAOC?
Kyleran
Member LegendaryPosts: 44,078
Its been said several times that we have high hopes for WAR because Mythic, developer of DAOC should be able to take the lessons learned from their mistakes in DAOC and not bring them forward into the game. So it got me to thinking, what features from DAOC would you not want to see in WAR?
For me, first off, I'd like to see the concept of buff-botting eliminated from WAR. (Resulted from having buffs with unlimited timers, castable on non-group members and no limit to their range. ) Sure, they get the benefit of encouraging folks to pay for 2, 3, or 4 accounts ( I know I did) but I certainly enjoyed DAOC much better when I moved to the classic servers which neutralized their effect.
Second, I'd like to see AOE mezz removed from the game. I don't mind a mezz class being able to take out a single target, heck, even a couple...but having one character being able to immoblize an entire group of 10 people for over a minute is silly. Sure, you could get talents to remove the mezz, but they were expensive and never really let you break it effectively. (and you were going to spend a lot of time motionless in fights until you reached higher realm ranks and could afford to get purges/dets.
Third...add a viable solo element to the game. Sure, if you play DAOC now, plenty of classes can solo (some argue this is a flaw) but back in the old days (before SI expansion) no class could really solo (well, maybe Theuris) and we all were forced to group no matter what. Since my first character was an undesireable stealther, I had a hard time grouping up with anyone and I couldnt solo either... took like 5 months to get him to 50. (vs getting 4 characters to level 50 in 2 months in my recent return)
Fourth - Don't add useless timesinks like long travel times via horse or whatever. Nowdays there's a nice network of portal vendors that let you move around the realm fairly rapidly. You can get to almost any destination in 10 minutes or less. In the early days of DAOC there were no portal vendors...so I spent half my life riding horses for 20 minutes or more from one end of the realm to the other. I actually read books while I travelled....for lack of a better thing to do....
Fifth... Something else thats no longer there... but in back in the day...if you went out into the BG's and died, in order to increase your punishment, you had to wait in a large circle for a group of teleporter mages to come downstairs and teleport you back out into the realms. This was on a 10 minute timer... so if you had the bad luck to die and respawn just after the last transport (which always seemed to be the case) then you had to sit for a nother 10 minutes...doing nothing.... Adding to the issue was the need to buy the proper necklace and put in on your neck before the mages cast their spell. More than few time did i miss the port because of this "fun" feature they had.
Sixth - Balance the classes early in the game's life cycle. Some folks will argue that Mythic never learned to balance the classes. I tend to agree... originally Smite Clerics were a terror...until they were nerfed into total helplessness, Archers ruled the early months... the nerfed too far...the made too strong, and recently, some were nerfed again. Sort of a back and forth see-saw battle. Sure, I understand , every game needs to do this..but it took Mythic forever to react.... leaving imbalances in place far too long. The other big failing was whenever an expansion came out...some of the new races/classes were invariably be wildly overpowered compared to the earlier classes, which means suddenly the world would see mass extinctions of certain classes like Bezerkers over the newer classes.
I can probably think of a few more if I put my mind to it. But I'm interested to see if these "features" annoyed anyone else as much as me and learn what other things people might like to see Mythic avoid in WAR's development.
and I also realize...some of you may have enjoyed the games original design.... that's fine..we all have different tastes.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
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Comments
My main problem with DAoC was the animations, and the general "feel" of controlling your character... it didn't feel right.
Looking at the videos in Warhammer, it would seem that they've sorted out this as the Engine is newer. I hope they have, as it's something very small, yet very crucial to me.
-iCeh
I'm pretty certain that I saw a video where they stated that crowd control (mez) would play a very minor role in WAR. Plus, you can tell from the class descriptions that there isn't going to be much along those lines.
If you've seen the information on "Public Quests," then you know that there is going to be solo content. After all, Public Quests are a way to work with others without having to LFG. I'm sure that WAR, in the PvE aspect, will have both solo and group content.
DAoC was a fairly early MMO, in terms of MMO history. As such, they have tried a lot things, changed things over time, etc. And they have years of player feedback to guide them. I'm certain that all the lessons learned DAoC will impact their development of WAR.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
First one - There are no long duration buffs. No Concentration. Buffbots are no more in WAR.
Second one - There is NO CC in WAR. They may have some short duration stuns and they will have snares but neither of those are really CC anyways.
Third one - They actually do encourage some soloing. Have you heard anything on the Public Quest system? Check it out if you haven't. That shows how much they support the solo game play.
Fourth one - Can't say anything about travel, but I doubt they punish people with long travel times. Each race has 4 tiers of zone. Check out the video on WAR's PvP zone setup for more details on it. Good video and I am excited about the layout.
Fifth one - PvP is different in this game. You don't actually port into the battlegrounds/RvR zones, you can literally see the contested areas from the PvE side. They have instanced battlegrounds which death will probably work similar to what is in WoW.
Sixth one - Class balance will never truly be accomplished in any game. Players are very creative and find ways to do things the devs never even dreamed of. The biggest problem there was in DAoC was the insane number of classes between 3 different realms. That's been stripped down to 2 sides, 3 races and 4 professions per race. Balance will not likely happen early on, but the slimming down will remove a great deal of the complexities seen early in DAoC. Anyone remember the days of StunGuard?
Mythic has already learned a lot of the lessons. Others we have to wait and see what they've done with the game when we have more information.
i think theyve learned, but in case they have forgot ill list.
1) pvpers do not like hardcore PVE raiding.
2) heavy customization is better for pvp than linear advancement. Levels are not actually required at all. Really.
3) pvpers will not accept a game where cheating is tolerated by the company. Bots or hacks.
that covers most of it.
1. You can avoid PvP altogether, and reach Tier 4 just on PvE. The game's focus is on RvR, however, and you will miss out on a lot this way. The last podcast stated that a mix of both RvR and PvE is the best way to progress in WAR.
2. The RvR areas are not just free-roaming PvP. There are objectives, and there are quests associated with each area. You'll be able to get equipment and such from participating in RvR this way.
3. You can participate in RvR only in the Tiers equal or higher to your personal Tier. A Tier 3 player cannot go gank newbs in the Tier 1 RvR areas. On the other hand, that Tier 3 player could head for the Tier 4 zones and participate, but would probably get their butt handed to them.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
"Every man dies, but not every man really lives"
Thanks for the replies. To be honest, I don't spend a lot of time researching games while they are under development, that way I never can say that they broke a promise about deliverying some feature at launch. (and...I'm lazy...)
But, once we get to open beta...I try to catch up and see for myself what has been developed....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You call me evil.
I call myself good.
I call you dumb