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Current MMORPGs = Bad (long)
aerdt
Member Posts: 22
The problem with all the current MMORPGs is that they're all the same. They're all roughly based on EQ, play roughly the same, have the same missions and quest and even mob names are the same. In the past 8 years, I have played and purchased UO, AO, DAoC, AC2, SWG, E&B and FFXI and beta'd Sims Online, Eve, Lineage 2 and CoH.
All MMORPGs have the same objective: Killing mobs, raising skills and lvl'ing up. SWG somehow broke the mold by introducting the professions, rather then character levelling. Unfortunately, after the excellent tutorial, SWG fell short of the overall storyline.
Here is my short review of all MMORPGs that I have played:
UO
nice, but bug filled at release, so I stopped playing. I returned a few years later and found the graphics dated.
AO
played and experienced the horrible release, returned a year later and found the same lag and lost interest. Same level grinding.
DAoC, E&B
I actually enjoyed both. It had a overall good story, but I gave up after reaching level 15, because you can only grind so much. There is no real option to do anything except killing mobs at lower levels.
AC2
Nice graphics, but I have found little to no interaction with fellow players and was never able to group with anyone. After a few months, I gave up.
SWG
see above. I enhoyed the non-level based approach, but I don't feel that I am accomplishing anything. I didn't get to see any storyline or found any players at my level. The first mission I got was to kill a mob 45 times. I never extended my free trial.
FFXI
Now this one actually has a story line and looks very nice overall, but the interface is horrible and basically a bad port from the PS2. I also didn't enjoy the anime setting and never played beyond the trial.
Eve
super-nice graphics, little content. You can only fly around the galaxy so much and don't get to see anything new.
Lineage 2
I really like this game and applaud the idea of pets, castle sieges and guild wars, but... until you ever get there you have to invest months of playing. I also feel that this game is also more catered towards the hard-core asian community. Also, bad and limited character generation take the "role" out of RPG.
CoH
Nice beta, but again, what do I get to do except killing thugs? No storyline at all and a impressive city with superheroes.
Okay, you see that I am not easy to please. I am currently 33 years old, have a good career and life and have maybe 1-4 hours time to play on the computer. I really don't care if a game costs $9 or $99. I have no probelm spending money for a good game. I am in the lucky position where I don't care baout subsription costs. And I refuse to kill the same mobs again over and over and over again just to receive a "ding". I am sorry, but what is the point of that, unless you are a teen with low self-esteem that gets a kick of being cyber-powerful. Like maybe 95% of the players, I do have a life, have plenty of friends and a career, but I do want to escape this life for a few hours to immerse in another character .
So, what makes a good MMORPG? Storyline! It is called a *Role Playing Game*, not a third-person hack and slash game. I have read that some fellow players have used the terms "Diablo Online". How true and Diablo wasn't even considered a RPG. Actually, even Diable had more content than most of the current MMORPGs. That's why games like Morrowind rule the genre. It has a great story and you are free to explore everything and create your own legacy in the world. I want to feel immersed in an RPG, maybe become someone different for a few hours. I do not want to level grind.
So how many of you do really role play and don't limit you conversation to "I need 2000xp more", "Pull that mob, I heal", "Looking for group"? I am also more and more pissed off at the community in the boards, especially the 15-year old fanbois that post comments "This game is so gay" or use foul language without any reason. I hate unreasonable PKers and KSers, bots and scripts. They all spoil MY free time.
It also seems that 85% of the MMORPGs are set in a fantasy world and maybe 10% are sci-fi. Why is that? Don't we have more interesting settings? I would love to see a historic MMORPG: medieval, roman, current time setting without mages, wizards and ugly creatures. Give me a career as a fireman, police officer, roman warrior or knight.
I would LOVE to see something more real. For example, get me a career as a police officer. Let me get into police academy, do a few weeks of training and then let me go out into the world to make a career. Once I have obtained a nice rank, I will be given more responsibilty over more (character) officers. In the end a complete city can be run by player characters, who slowly take over the NPCs positions. If someone loses interest, make the position vacant to advance. If there are no applicants fil the position by an NPC. Make the game intelligent where you won't know in advance when you're up for a promotion. Because that's how it works in real life and that's what makes players stay. Make quests dynamic and interesting. Yes, it can be somehow repetitive, because that's what life is, but also create interesting excitement and give me the "WOW" effect. And this is just ONE example of an idea that "could" work. I have many more and I am not affiliated with the gaming industry who actually get paid to entertain us.
We have the computing power, the developers, the machines that can run it. But, unfortunately, publishers are using the same formula over and over again in order to make $$$. Let's face it, the most creative and innovative games nowadays originate in Europe or Asia, with The Sims being an exception.
There is currently *no* MMORPG that I am looking forward to playing. There is not even a single player game (well, maybe The Sims 2) that I am looking forward to. You can re-create a first person shooter only so many times and make it a Doom clone. You can only create and Age of Empires so many times and you can create only so many Baldurs Gates.
Sorry to say that, but I am simply bored with computer gaming. Where are the good old games like Police Quest, CIV, Masters of Orion?
Comments
These things are not new... Copies from ideas from other games as well...
It sounds like the level grind in Lineage 2 is the worst yet...
Hear hear!
I agree with you totally, I am in pretty much the same boat I can afford to play any mmorpg I want but everyone I play it is all about leveling. Nothing bores me more than running around killing stuff for xp. Why do you always have to level? I would pay good money for a game that let you do what you want and achieve a career path without having to grind.
Your police idea sounds great, reminds me of police quest (now thats a game I would play online).
I applaud the fact that you genuinely well told us what you want, and what you want seems to be something different, cool. Not many people play just for storyline anymore. Myself, I want something with a good bit of storyline to immerse me and realize my role in this new world but still enough freedom that my story is based upon my actions and the actions of my fellow players.
I'll make two points for and against you, though. On one hand, in complete honesty, all the MMORPGs on the market today are just crappy games boosted a few levels by player interactions. None of them would be successful as single player games. And this is a good part of your point. But alternatively, you also have to give these games breadth to be imperfect. It does sound like you're quite picky, and while with some things that's very healthy, (wanting a TRULY immersive experience from games that are all about existing in an entirely new community is far from outlandish,) some things will do nothing more than stunt the enjoyment you could possibly be experiencing. I have to say we do disagree on the anime theme. IMHO if anything we've got not enough of these games, whereas you seemed unhappy with FFXI's realism/anime hybrid. But anyway, I agree that we, as consumers, need to be more critical of these products completely. I've seen much too much of 'that's the way it is, deal with it,' attitude about MMORPGs. They are games just like any other genre.
I agree about the all being repeated and boring. However I love Fantasy and don't really care for Sci Fi.
However for a total change in how MMORPG's are played and if you are interested in Fantasy I would take a gander at the information about this game
http://di.gamepoint.net/lejendary/en/index.php?page=about
I agree with you 100%. I am a successful middle aged woman and I have been a fan of RPG for many years. I have a very large library of games that I have bought, installed, played for a short time and lost interest very fast. I understand the reason behind some character leveling (as in real, life experience is learned by doing) but how many goblins, monsters and beasts can one slay to be experienced?
I like Role playing, immersing oneself in a new world or life. I do not have a problem with fantasy settings but historical settings and your real life idea are quite interesting.
I also have become eye candy appreciative. I love great graphics (its what I do in real life) but story line, one that leads to a true role playing experience, is most important to me.
We can only hope that someone will finally get it right and those of us who seek out true role playing games will get our wish.
I agree that MMORPGs have become cookie cutter and stale. Hopefully, software companies will take heart, listen to us the consumer and push for more change in the MMORPG genre. One thing, though, MMORPG games compared to the rest of the gaming genre are still new, but I would like to see developers reach out and begin to create something new. For instance, like your cop mmorpg idea or how about a mmorpg set in the 1800's (an idea for a historical mmorpg)
. I also agree with you, in that, I don't understand why there isn't more futuristic mmorpgs out. As far as mmorpgs set in the current time period, I wouldn't have a use for or see that type of genre being very popular because the idea of an rpg is to role play and usually take a respite from our everyday lives. The bottom line is this simple fact, money. The amount of money to be made is what drives a company to put out a game title, especially a MMORPG title, and software companies hopefully will realize that "if they build it, we will come".
Realy good points to all.
But i you dont want another EQ Clon have a look on the FAQ and discussing with us on the
Ages of Athiria Portal
I dont want to say to much here but read the FAQ and look into the Boards.
You will see and i am convinced that AoA is not another Clon from any other MMORPG.
Bhel a developer and Loremaster from AoA say it right.
"We're not creating Ages of Athiria to be yet-another "launch it and forget it" MMORPG"
I Agree with most things you said.
Does a quest really have to be kill 50 this or run points X,Y, Z?
I have been playing Computer game to long now and there always been some gameplay advancement but MMORPG have been going backwards last 2 years.
I love MMORPG with regular updates every month or so but there has to be some fresh wind here again.
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
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Light laughter and sweet water to you fellow adventures.
FINALLY! Another who notices. WOO WOO! DOWN WITH MAGIC DOWN WITH MAGIC!
And I don't find AOs Level Grind half as bad as L2s. And if you don't have an uber computer, AO will still run (Athlon 64-FX, Rad98Pro, 1G DDR533... but most my friends don't have money like me). Also, I find that I can go out to sea (I'm a US Sailor) and come back and jump right back into AO with no problem.
- CaesarsGhost
http://www.flyingtemple.com/
Anarchy Online
Project Entropia
*Name Pending* (I'm making it myself!)
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
While I agree newer mmorpg are all falling short,your points on few of the games seems strange to me.
1)DAoC- first the grind really does not start till 30s.Before that it is a total breeze espically the first 20 levels.You can actually quest for the first 20 because on release 60% of all quest in the game was geared for the under 20.I as a newbie even failed to find most of those quests sadly.I actually went from 1 to 20 in less then 30 hours game play(which was slow by some folks standards) doing kill task and mainly exploring with some fellow newbies in tomb of mithra.
So yeah DAoC has a grind but certainly not the early levels they are too easy.If you found that a grind I doubt you ever find a mmorpg that you would be able to play to maximum levels.
2)AC2.I played it only 2 months but have to say had no problem finding people to interact with despite it having a real low population.That was because of the vassal system.My monarchy was always chatting(when chat worked that is lol) and ready to help in an instance (maybe due to the vassal system).Also the world was not really big and there were only a few places to gather.So I always ran into folks I hunted with the night before.Never had a problem getting a group.
3)SWG- why were you looking for people at your level???I mean come on this is the only game I ever played that it does not matter if you are a newbie with starter pistol.You can group and hunter with a master bounty hunter.In short when I decided to drop rifleman and go pistoleer I wanted to do it fast.So I took a schuttle to dathomir and shouted lfg.Every blessed night I got one .And yeah I was able to go hunt as a novice marksman with folks who were master CH or BH or commando.
4)Eve online.Have to agree after flying my ship endlessly looking for a pirate or 2 in beta I really got bored fast.Mind you unlike many others I actually got thru the mining at the start lol.
5)L2- not a bad game for hard core gaming.Still nothing new to offer honestly.
6)CoH- well personally this is the game I plan to play on release.Why?because it is a whole new ball game for mmorpg.Yes atm it is a lot of kill thugs but I think the game has so much avenue to add on that if the company plays it right they got a winner here.
Mind you I agree in general that mmorpgs have been going downhill for a while.
The current range of MMORPGs are all pretty dire when it comes to storylines and imersion, and the amount of new MMORPGs which look like they may break the mold failing miserably is kinda worrying. I have been hoping for a really new immersive and storyline driven MMORPG for years but have now given up getting excited about new products until I see them come out and work. Games in developement promise alot but for some reason the genre seems very entrenched in a 'follow the tried and tested format' policy. I have followed a few games which made big claims, only to see them get stuck (like Atriarch, has anything new happened with that in the last year or more?) or changed beyond recognition (like horizons) It makes me wonder if there really is a big enough comunity out there to support new games which try to change things.
At the moment I am playing CoH as it at least seems different, people complain it is the same old level grind, but at least it is fun and easy to play. And I am also downloading the SoR Beta this weekend, (another game I had hopes for which seems to have shot itself in the foot), as it claims to have a changing storyline, and to let players have more of a comunity and get into positions of power and really affect the gameworld. It is not realism I know, having a sci-fi theme, but with the whole guild based comunity thing, and crafting and GvG I am hoping that SoR will have a feeling of being part of a living world. I also like how SoR has to a certain extent embraced the fact that it is a game with computer rules applying, and written those into the world giving them a rationale, which I think helps yet again to change the playing field and give a greater feeling of depth as at least wolves are not handily dropping from the sky endlessly just for you to kill with no possible reasoning apart from 'god has a sense of humour'
I am just not sure there would be enough to do in a real world game. So many people play these games in order to be able to break the barriers that currently bind them. If you had a modern day city based game, how many people would want to play knowing that they had to do what their 'boss' told them in game as well as in real life? How many people would want to wait for a promotion? In Horizons there was the idea of land, and building houses, which was great and I really wanted to build my own. but of course there was not enough land and the fights and whinging that ensued were awful, most of the land going to people who could stay online long enough to rush and buy it as soon as it was available, leaving players like myself, with jobs to go to, left out. I finally got land through the dead mens boots method as a guildmate gave me his when he quit. But it really annoyed me before then, feeling that I would never be able to really progress in that world as a casual gamer. and I wonder how many casual gamers would play a real life game knowing that the people who can put in enough time to become 'police chief' and order them around are probably in high school.
In another thread there was a discussion about how you could give points for roleplaying somehow and I think only once systems like that are put in place will there be a real change in the feeling of these games. At the moment, people seem to start well, socialising and exploring, but leveling is very important, and to level you need to play the same way as everyone else, and do the things the designers have put in to make you level and it all does seem very much the same.
I can't agree that all current MMORPGs are nescessarily bad, I was hooked on EQ for at least 2 years so I have to admit it had appeal, but they are not improving as I might have hoped.
Here are a couple of ideas for games I would really enjoy
1. perhaps, as was mentioned, a historical game. However to give it the extra conflict, and difference between yourself and the NPCs perhaps it could be a time travel game, or some sort of alien invasion thing, so you start out different, perhaps you may end up in ancient rome but there has to be a reason you are different from the other romans. I mean, as a girl there are very few eras in history where I would have been taught much, or have much to plan and acheive except a good marriage. So I can't imagine playing as a normal ancient roman matron and getting much out of things. Time travel would also give people the extra added interest of going to different time periods, perhaps it is the first historical holiday destination company, you move around the destinations they have portals too and promise not to disturb the timeloine too much (perhaps some of the NPCs are 'undercover operatives who arrest you and send you home if you mess with the NPCs, you might get points (or security clearances) allowing you to venture further and affect more of the game for playing well. Heh, please don't flame me I know this is only half an idea but one I could imagine giving alot of scope.
Another thought would be to have less a game and more just an online community, this could also get a bit sci-fi but maybe the players just colonise a new world, At the beginning there would not be many options, and people would actually have to invent things (like better clothes or weapons, by following clues and trying out resources and tools, it would be very hard to implement i know, but to somehow actually grow your civilisation, to expand, be able to take land back from the wild would be interesting.
Anyway, I will stop rambling now
Hers hoping that when D&D online is released ,they will have a game that we all play and play for fun and adventure.Maybe even forget if we leveled during last nights play session etc like you do with the paper and pen version.
If lvling is too hard then people get sick of it and leave.,
If lvlingis too easy then theres no real point to it and they might as well make us all the top lvl anyway.
Having something to do while lvling to the top etc and a REASON to actually lvl helps. Not just end game but a reasosn to get the NEXT lvl.
Most mmos out now or in beta are lvl grinds one way or another sadly. Id like a game where the reason was foremost and we all played and lvling was side issue etc. Generally tho anywhere thats got 4k people together in one place isnt what i want anymore tho. Ive had enough of "kids" and "Im a pker uber dude youre carebear..meet my sword!" type.
The word DIRE was very well picked I have to say.
- CaesarsGhost
http://www.flyingtemple.com/
Anarchy Online
Project Entropia
*Name Pending* (I'm making it myself!)
- CaesarsGhost
Lead Gameplay and Gameworld Designer for a yet unnamed MMO Title.
"When people tell me designing a game is easy, I try to get them to design a board game. Most people don't last 5 minutes, the rest rarely last more then a day. The final few realize it's neither fun nor easy."
Praying for a MMORPG with permadeath and more realistic elements (such as death, age, dynamic professions/economy), however, since a majority of the consumers seem to be the kids of affluent parents, I doubt that any of the former will ever come to fruition.
For those of you troubled by the cruel economics of having lost pain and effort: Consider that the game is only worth the integral of the fun you had while playing it, and that the sooner you attain a lvl the more quickly the games fun fades (a statistically proven phenomenon (whence lvl grinding)). In lieu of a grind you could have a global PVP permadeath mmorpg with NPCs that regulate pkers (set ransoms, almost preclude healing in town or such).
Once again it is the wish of a lone hardcore gamer and most kids/adults simply can't handle loss (refer to the guy that killed himself over EQ).
"That's not a toy. Hey wait a minute. Don't f* around homey you can lose an eye with it. That's mah double-blade-razorwhip-chop-jimmy and it's mine mf*er so gimme gimme."
-ICP
Toy Box
Riddle Box
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Permadeath is another reason SoR interested me, with its original idea of having permadeath, but making it alot harder to die, and having the option to put some of your experience into a 'descendant' to play if the worst happened and you died, but once again interesting ideas just don't seem to last, in this case the argument being that there were too many ways your net connection could get you killed therefore permadeath could cause huge upsets.
I am glad to see they left some remnant of the permadeath and aging idea in, but it is now optional..... and while they tried to make it attractive, (giving the offspring bonuses) who ever really chooses to get old and die?
So once again technological and monetary constraints killed a new idea.
I must admit - that you have something against every mmorpg ever made, are you sure you even like playing them?
I agree, that they do become tedious very quickly and you level just to get to the higher levels so that you can do whatever you like. It is a grind, and it shouldn't be. Dark and Light is supposed to have a social exp bar as well as a fighting exp bar, and you should be able to be a "noble" managing estates etc. This sounds like fun, but I admit to not having read that much about it.
If that doesn't interest you, there's always the sims online
Dreamers can find their way by moonlight and their only punishment is that they see the dawn before the rest of the world
Dreamers can find their way by moonlight and their only punishment is that they see the dawn before the rest of the world
I liken the MMORPG genre to the FPS genre in the 90's.
Let's step back a few years. Wolfenstein breaks out. Lots of fanfaire, introduces a new experience to most computer gamers. DooM comes out, and defines the genre and sets the pace for the future. Then for 4-ish years the genre is bombarded with DooM killers and clones. The clones tried to expand upon different parts of DooM, whether it be graphics, the ability to look up and down, better multiplayer, etc etc.
Then Quake, and Halflife come along. You get the idea.
In my eyes, we're right at that stage of DooM-clones. Except now it's EQ-Clones. It's not hard to see that 75% of all the mmorpgs listed aren't going to be successful. A lot of them just want to be the next EQ. Hey, I played EQ, and I don't want to do it again. I know not to many want to play it again either.
The genre needs it's own Half-Life now.
It's all just guessing at this point what game is going to do it though. I'd like Guildwars to be the one. It looks innovative and promising. No cost, and heavy emphasis on competition against others. But it may just end up being a mmorpg of diablo2
........ what's wrong with a mmorpg of d2?
d2 held me longer captive than ao, eq etc. combined, because of the many choices you faced with each character and the competitive elements:
In hardcore you had to compete with others for a ladder position (even the grind to lvl 99 could not vie with other mmorpg grinds to mid lvl).
Getting a druid bear to lvl 90 (which I am quite proud of) didn't take me half as long as it had taken me with a more suitable leveling character (ma, AO: lvl 50).
Isn't competition the quintessence of a MMORPG? Whether it be roleplaying or powergaming what drive is there to attain an incredibly high lvl (or kill count (degree of recognition)). There are such games (furcadia?) with absolutely no hint of competition and they are anything but popular.
d2 had the most significant of the latter elements (PK and ladder) and it had become, ironically, one of the most successful rpgs (looking at consumer numbers?). Perhaps EQ had won in terms of the economics (fewer users with monthly rates .. quite evil)
when one attains a certain lvl in a RPG (a point in the level grind such that level is painfully excruciating) and has a great deal of the wealth, then what option remains?
Hopefully guildwars will live up to d2's pvp and hardcore standards given our expectations. If not then there is always darkfall to look forward to...... and if not dark fall then >.<
"That's not a toy. Hey wait a minute. Don't f* around homey you can lose an eye with it. That's mah double-blade-razorwhip-chop-jimmy and it's mine mf*er so gimme gimme."
-ICP
Toy Box
Riddle Box
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Don't get me wrong. I really do want to see MMORPGs succeed and find a decent game for myself that keeps me entertained and lets me 'escape reality' for a few hours.
My point was strictly that all current MMOs (I won't call them RPGs anymore) are the same. True, some innovation has happened with housing, professions, guilds, PvP, transportation, but still it is all about level grinding. I also know that there are a lot of people who love to grind and love to spend every free minute of their time immersed in a game, but I don't. When I go to bed after a night playing MMOs, I feel exhausted, but I don't think that I have accomplished something. You usually camp somewhere on a spot when the mobs of your level are and do the same thing over and over and over again. That is not an accomplishment, because you absolutely need no brains in order to do that. Click, rest, click, attack. If you find a group, you usually go hunting for the same mobs, but you kill just more of them in a shorter time. Even for the quests: Get yourself a strategy guide and instantly know what lvl the mobs are and where to go for the quest.
When I first installed SWG, I was like: Wow, finally a cool MMORPGs. The tutorial was excellent and could not understand someone dissing the game. Well, a few weeks later, I put this one on the shelf again. The quests are ridiculous. If the first mission that I get is to kill 45 mobs for X and not giving me a reason, then I am already bored. Again, I don't want instant gratification, but give us a break! If you play a medic, you usually stand around the medial facility and hope for players to come in to heal. The idea is great, but in reality it doesn't work, because you can stand there for hours and hours.
The other problem with MMOs is the fanbase. Geez, look at the Lineage boards of people whining, complaining and flaming about a G-A-M-E. I have never seen more racism, prejudice and hatred then on those boards and wonder and shake my head where we have come to. Then you have the hardcore fanbois who claim "it is just beta". I agree, some games got better after a few patches, but none has ever gotten a radical make-over or a tremendous amount of content or storyline. Of course, you can't make thousands of people happy. Will never happen.
My point is that all games nowadays look and play the same. MMO, RPG or FPS, they're all nice clones with better graphics and sound. And I am sorry, I am getting sick and tired of magic, orcs, gobins and elves. You see, I am not a huge fantasy fan. And I really really don't want to diss the ones who do like fantasy. My point is only more variety. 95% of the MMOs on the horizons are fantasy.
And, no, I don't hate MMOs. Why would I buy or continue to beta test them? I just want to see one that fits my shoe and currently I can't see one. WoW will be exactly the same. People created a huge, huge hype about Shadowbane and SWG and look where it is at right now. I am not saying that they're bad, but hit me up again in 2 years and then tell me how many of you are still playing either game.
Here are a few games that I actually LIKE:
Europa 1600, Republic, Black and White, Operation Flashpoint, Splinter Cell, Need for Speed Underground, The Sims and future releases like The Sims 2, The Movies and Soldner
My MMO favorite is still DAoC. I pray that Mythic is going to update the graphics or come out with a new game. Gee, I had such a good time there. THe tutorial and story are great, the players are friendly and sometimes even role play and the quests were interesting and appropriate for your level. I can still remember for a mob to spawn and had that Whoa effect when it spawned and my group defeated it. I had a ball, because that I am going to advance for a reason. Sure, it got boring after a while, but for the time being, I enjoyed it tremedously.
Actually most mmorpg nowadays are very scared to resemble EQ.But lack any original ideas of their own so make a mockery of it.
Way I was taught is.If you got no new ideas improve on the old.So lets take the car for instance.When it was invented people improved on the idea rather then say "ok we invented a car.now lets find something new that people can use instead of the car".
No they improved the car and are forever doing so .One day maybe someone would invent a hovercar or a teleporter but till then people are making the car better and better.
Same applies to mmorpg.If there is no company or developer with a vision to take mmorpg to a new and higher level then at least improve on the old.
So far since DAoC,I am yet to see any mmorpg that has brought anything new to the genre.Yet,they all attempt to run away from the ones that did make that leap.
End result is they are getting worse ever time.When AC2 came out in 2002 many said it was the most horrible big name mmorpg to hit the shelves.Since then nearly all the big name mmorpg have become worse then it.
At least CoH is trying to bring something new.