COncepts like SWG// SOE....

JackBauer24 · February 2007

I am thinking about getting this game but I am not sure. I would like to hear the pros and cons about this game. First I also have another question:

Do you think SOE will bring down this game as it did SWG?

And are the concepts like SWG? (EX: like Pre CU swg but not starwarsy)?

Heres what I like in mmos:

Lots of variety in weapons and items

Massive battles

Good strong mature community

Good graphics

umm those are the main things i really dont have to mention the little things

Fignar · February 2007

It's not like SWG pre-cu at all, its an updated version of your general fantasy MMO.

To play at a decent resolution i.e. above 1024 by 768 with all the eye candy on which makes Vanguard look good you need a good system. Yes the graphics are good but they only look good if you have the eye candy on which means you need a good GFX card and CPU.

Community wise in game can't say much yet i've not been paying attention to the chat much and I've not really been grouping for any quests so can't comment. However judging by some of the posts on these forums & other fansites you have got a large number of overly excited fan boys playing the game a bit arrogant along with some decent guys and gals.

Massive battles hmmm from what i've seen unless you have an amazing system your game will start to lag majorly if a certain number of player characters and NPC's /Mobs appear on your screen (unless you turn alot of the GFX settings down which means the game starts to look crappy), so I would say mediocre battles if you want your game to stay playable and look decent.

Lots of weapons and armour are available.

Nikoz78 · February 2007

Originally posted by Fignar

It's not like SWG pre-cu at all, its an updated version of your general fantasy MMO.

I have to disagree on this point. Reposted from another thread:

Just a few of Vanguards features:

*No zones/instances. Just 1 freaking HUGE open world in Vanguard!

*Player placed houses. The houses are not zoned. The only difference is you can only build on pre-determined plots in order to protect the environment (brilliant, SWG should have done this). The home decoration options are about 100 times that of SWG. You can even build a house on any one of hundreds of remote islands.

*In Vanguard there are literally over 60,000 items in the world already and every single item can be dropped in your house like in SWG.

*Vanguard features the "you can go anywhere" mentality. If you see it you can go there.

*Harvesting resources so reminds me of SWG. Hell, when you chop down a tree for wood the tree actually falls to the ground where you can then harvest it.

*SWG had space travel - Vanguard has sea travel! Huge open oceans to travel upon with your player-made boats of all sizes.

*You can tame wild beasts and mount them. In Vanguard you can fly dozens of mounts anywhere!

*The most amazing character-creation options ever. Period.

*You can custom design clothes, armor, weapons and even 'brand' it with your own logo.

*You can create and name your own songs (Bard).

* Item decay! And the most impressive crafting system ever devised.

*The CHALLENGE you sorely miss... is back!

Andir · February 2007

Originally posted by Fignar

However judging by some of the posts on these forums you have got a large number of f***tards playing the game along with some decent guys.

Please don't use these forums as an indication of in game community. Around here if you voice any concern, good or bad, your going to get raped by someone because they have a different opinion. The best bet is to try to snag one of them 10 day trials and check it out. You may be surprised and really like the game.

Combat is very similar to EQ2, except there are no HOs (replaced with chains) and your not going to have tons of mobs on you in a battle (otherwise your dead). The gameplay is not group vs group in PVE. After level 10 or so, your most likely going to be fighting 1 or two mobs. Three at most, unless they are extreemely weak mobs (and there are). Boss battles can last a long time if your lower level, be prepared to manage your mana. Groups can get along without healers, but your not going ot be doing everything. Sometimes they are needed.

It's not skill based like SWG pre-CU. It's class based and your skills are predetermined. After level 10 though, you will start to learn skills as you fight as well as having to buy some standard ones.

There are a tons of weapons and armor. They did a great job with this and every area has it's own unique "style".

The graphics are great, if you have the system to really crank it up. I was able to tweak the INIs to get great performance out of the High Quality mode on my 6800GT.

Euthorus · February 2007

If you played SWG for a while do you recall the first Creature Handler nerf closely followed by Commando nerf ? This is the exact stage Vanguard is at now - classes are being nerfed and *balanced* but the pattern is identical to early days of SWG.

Fignar · February 2007

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Originally posted by Fignar

It's not like SWG pre-cu at all, its an updated version of your general fantasy MMO.

I have to disagree on this point. Reposted from another thread:

Just a few of Vanguards features:

*No zones/instances. Just 1 freaking HUGE open world in Vanguard!

*Player placed houses. The houses are not zoned. The only difference is you can only build on pre-determined plots in order to protect the environment (brilliant, SWG should have done this). The home decoration options are about 100 times that of SWG. You can even build a house on any one of hundreds of remote islands.

*In Vanguard there are literally over 60,000 items in the world already and every single item can be dropped in your house like in SWG.

*Vanguard features the "you can go anywhere" mentality. If you see it you can go there.

*Harvesting resources so reminds me of SWG. Hell, when you chop down a tree for wood the tree actually falls to the ground where you can then harvest it.

*SWG had space travel - Vanguard has sea travel! Huge open oceans to travel upon with your player-made boats of all sizes.

*You can tame wild beasts and mount them. In Vanguard you can fly dozens of mounts anywhere!

*The most amazing character-creation options ever. Period.

*You can custom design clothes, armor, weapons and even 'brand' it with your own logo.

*You can create and name your own songs (Bard).

* Item decay! And the most impressive crafting system ever devised.

*The CHALLENGE you sorely miss... is back! Sorry you are dead wrong it is no where near the most amazing crafting system designed and SWG's was far superior before the CU and NGE. I am a crafter and thats all I do in any MMO I play so I am 100% disagreeing with you on this point SWG had the best crafting system I have seen from every MMO I have played including Vanguard's. Don't get me wrong Vanguards is good but not as good as SWG's.

Simply put you can't compare Vanguard to SWG and you shouldn't try. Vanguard is an updated generic fantasy MMO, SWG ( i refer to the pre-cu which in my opinion was the superior one from the CU and NGE) was a skill point based game with community interaction designed in the core game and was based on one of the most popular film sagas every made Vanguard on the other hand is not. You can brand weapons and armour in Vanguard yes but SWG allowed you to create armour and weapons which could be far different to your competitors via the resource stat / experimentation crafting system . In Vanguard it still means you end up with generic items which most likely will have identical stats to someone elses unless by chance you get some crappy luck when going through the crafting process etc. Vanguard has node harvesting SWG did not and had constantly changing resource spawns which you could harvest any where you wanted with in limits i.e. no specific nodes which you must harvest by hand.

All this has been refuted before when you posted in the SWG forums

.

Also at this moment in time there are no boats in Vanguard so you can't say what you have said unless you actually own a boat and have taken it for a spin. Also i doubt you will have fast paced JTL battles in a boat form some how as both are completely different.

You can't comment on the player housing since you most likely do not own a house yet. So until you have experienced it just state there is player housing which is not zoned like EQ2.

The only thing I can say both games have in common is SOE runs their servers, provides tech support and does the billing.

I also don't recall chopping down trees in SWG? if your refering to creature harvesting yes that is similar to the old ranger profession. Apart from that resource harvesting is similar to EQ2, WoW etc i.e. resource nodes.

Age of Conan's Character customisation is far superior to Vanguards wait until there is an open beta, a video on Youtube is floating around which shows this.

Vanguard is a good game in it's own right but you simply can't compare SWG to Vanguard both two different games.

I have to agree with the dude who posted above me try getting a buddy key or a trial and just check the game out but you must play past level 10 before you get an actual feel for the game and play with an open mind and just get in to the game it is good and has a nice learning curve which I have missed since playing SWG.

Salvatoris · February 2007

Originally posted by Nikoz78

*No zones/instances. Just 1 freaking HUGE open world in Vanguard!

I think this is one of the most misleading things they have said about this game. There ARE zones, they just call them chunks. The map is laid out in almost exactly the same manner as Anarchy Online. The zones are placed beside each other on a flat map so you can travel freely between them. There is a brief load time but no load screen (again just like AO). You can not draw agro or attack across a chunk line. You can not be followed by a mob across a chunk line either. You can cross the entire map by staying near the chunk lines and stepping across it any time you draw agro. The chunks are actually not very big, and some points of interest are unfortunately close to chunk lines, or even worse in the corner were 4 chunks intersect. You will notice off behavior of mobs and NPCs near chunk lines, such as warping around or walking backward.

*Player placed houses. The houses are not zoned. The only difference is you can only build on pre-determined plots in order to protect the environment (brilliant, SWG should have done this). The home decoration options are about 100 times that of SWG. You can even build a house on any one of hundreds of remote islands.
Houses are fairly similar to the way they were in SWG, except for the fact that they can only be built on designated plots. The exact placement of houses is decided by the devs, the plots are on roads and show up as an empty lot with a square of dirt marking the house plot and a for sale sign. You cant just find a nice spot on a mountain top or an island and build your house there like you could in SWG. The plots are spread around the world, and not in housing zones like they are in DAoC. other than that, housing placement itself is similar to DAoC.

*In Vanguard there are literally over 60,000 items in the world already and every single item can be dropped in your house like in SWG.
This one is pretty cool, and one area where the game is a lot like SWG.

*Vanguard features the "you can go anywhere" mentality. If you see it you can go there.
Again, this one is accurate and pretty cool. You can't scale steep hills like you could in SWG, so they are used quite a bit as borders or boundaries. Once you get access to a flying mount you can actually travel to any spot in the world.

*Harvesting resources so reminds me of SWG. Hell, when you chop down a tree for wood the tree actually falls to the ground where you can then harvest it.
Harvesting is absolutely nothing like SWG. Resources are collected from Nodes that appear in fixed locations. Nodes are pretty sparse and are linked to each other. When one is harvested it's counterpart spawns again, preventing you from farming a single node. Once you find a pattern though, you can run a short route and find your resources without too much hunting, as the node locations never change.
Nodes for wood look like trees, and you do see an animation for chopping down the tree, along with the tree falling at the end. Harvesting was initially a little more intricate, with harvesting actions that you fired during the process. Now it is just based on your gear and the number of players group-harvesting. Your harvesting level dictates which types of resource you are able to harvest, with lower level resources being in low level areas. Unfortunately this means that you do need to raise your adventuring level along with your harvesting level... meaning that the only way to be a "pure crafter" would be to buy all your resources.

*SWG had space travel - Vanguard has sea travel! Huge open oceans to travel upon with your player-made boats of all sizes.

The difference here is that the oceans, which make up a vast majority of the game world, are almost entirely devoid of anything of interest.... Hopefully this will change later. Boats and ships are pretty poorly implemented right now, and aren't good for anything other than a status symbol. Even the largest ships have no interior areas and are coded in such a way that they will probably never have any below deck areas.... as that space is filled with water. You do not need a boat to travel between continents, and they have no combat abilities. They really are just for show at this point.

*You can tame wild beasts and mount them. In Vanguard you can fly dozens of mounts
There is no taming of creatures in Vanguard. You can buy mounts, but they simply pop up under you when summoned and disappear when you get off them. I have heard that you can dismount them now, but it isn't something I can confirm. There are NOT dozens of types of flying mounts, there are only a few, but you can fly them anywhere.

*The most amazing character-creation options ever. Period.
Character creation pales in comparison to SWG. You have all the same sliders for proportions, but only a few options for face and hair, everyone really does look the same. This is something I assume they will expand on as time passes, but right now it is about as diverse as Ryzom. For the record, the "most amazing character-creation ever. Period" can be found in City of Heroes / Villains.

*You can custom design clothes, armor, weapons and even 'brand' it with your own logo.

Hmmm... I have never seen anything like this in vanguard. All crafted armor and weapons look the same, there isn't even a phase of crafting that allows you to edit the appearance or even the color of armor. You can buy dye to color cloth, but not armor of any kind. They have stated several times that you will never be able to edit the appearance of armor or weapons, not even in the crafting process. The game does force you to decide between being more combat effective in mix-matched armor or wearing a full matched suit that doesn't necessarily have the protects or bonuses you would want. Most people are running around in 5 different colors of armor, but they still manage to all look roughly the same.
*You can create and name your own songs (Bard).

* Item decay! And the most impressive crafting system ever devised.
Items do not decay to the point that they leave the world, stats do not change as items decay, they simply become unusable when they hit zero. Decay is repaired by NPCs, and is nothing more than a cash-drain. The crafting process is OK, but the end result is pretty limited. Your crafted goods are exactly the same as the next crafter down the road, in stats and appearance. One thing that really bothers me about progressing in your crafting skill is that you have no option other than grinding work orders. You only get XP for creating items the first time you make them. It is not possible to progress as a crafter simply by making and selling useful items. GRINDING WORK ORDERS IS THE ONLY OPTION.

*The CHALLENGE you sorely miss... is back!
The game isn't more challenging than other games out there, you just level slower due to low XP gain and a stiffer death penalty. Gameplay itself is just like every other fantasy MMO... you have four or five skills you fire in succession.. 1,2,3,1,2,3. You have a pool of 100 endurance (everyone does) and refresh timers on your skills. All players of your class at your level have the same skills. Character progression is more like NGE SWG than the previous, skill-based system.

Distopia · February 2007

The similarities between Vanguard and SWG are slim , But it does include some of what made SWG different from other MMO's . If anything you can compare it to what swg was during the CU (Atleast IMO that incarnation of SWG is closest to what you will find in vanguard) .

The important things you listed can be found in vanguard , Variety in gameplay . Potential for full on world PVP . Community is very strong for the most part . Graphics are good and the game is difficult enough to actually provide a challenge . Most game mechanics play a little different than you find in SWG , But it does offer enough of what I loved about SWG . Minus an open Skill based profession system .

Another area I find quite similar is in its ambition . The game is large much like SWG was , It is also breaching on certain areas of innovation that have not been fully realized yet . But offer promise for good things to come , The only worry is that it may follow to closely to SWG's path . ANd never fully flesh out those possibilities .

Nikoz78 · February 2007

Fignar No one refuted anything I said over at the SWG forum. In fact out of the 150+ posts not a single person refuted a single thing. But nice try.

Watch this: www.fileplanet.com/163792/160000/fileinfo/Vanguard:-Saga-of-Heroes-Movie:-Player-Housing

In this video Jeff Butler compares Vanguard to SWG many times.

Being that Raph Koster and Brad McQuaid are both not only good friends but both considered rebels inside the industry, it's not surprising Vanguard is created in the same spirit as UO and SWG. I'm sorry but you are the one who is dead wrong.

Originally posted by Nikoz78

*No zones/instances. Just 1 freaking HUGE open world in Vanguard!

I think this is one of the most misleading things they have said about this game. There ARE zones, they just call them chunks. The map is laid out in almost exactly the same manner as Anarchy Online. The zones are placed beside each other on a flat map so you can travel freely between them. There is a brief load time but no load screen (again just like AO). You can not draw agro or attack across a chunk line. You can not be followed by a mob across a chunk line either. You can cross the entire map by staying near the chunk lines and stepping across it any time you draw agro. The chunks are actually not very big, and some points of interest are unfortunately close to chunk lines, or even worse in the corner were 4 chunks intersect. You will notice off behavior of mobs and NPCs near chunk lines, such as warping around or walking backward.

Dude, there are NO zones. I don't experience any "load times." Maybe it's your system. I can draw agro over a chunk. I've been chased over a chunk a 100 times. And I can see everything that is happening over a chunk. I do agree strange things, like animals running fast and vanishing does happen around chunks. But this game is 100% zone free. Maybe you need to upgrade your rig.
*Player placed houses. The houses are not zoned. The only difference is you can only build on pre-determined plots in order to protect the environment (brilliant, SWG should have done this). The home decoration options are about 100 times that of SWG. You can even build a house on any one of hundreds of remote islands.
Houses are fairly similar to the way they were in SWG, except for the fact that they can only be built on designated plots. The exact placement of houses is decided by the devs, the plots are on roads and show up as an empty lot with a square of dirt marking the house plot and a for sale sign. You cant just find a nice spot on a mountain top or an island and build your house there like you could in SWG. The plots are spread around the world, and not in housing zones like they are in DAoC. other than that, housing placement itself is similar to DAoC.
One of the STUPIDEST things in SWG was all the houses everywhere turned every which way. This is evolution. SWG should have done the same thing.

*In Vanguard there are literally over 60,000 items in the world already and every single item can be dropped in your house like in SWG.
This one is pretty cool, and one area where the game is a lot like SWG.

*Vanguard features the "you can go anywhere" mentality. If you see it you can go there.
Again, this one is accurate and pretty cool. You can't scale steep hills like you could in SWG, so they are used quite a bit as borders or boundaries. Once you get access to a flying mount you can actually travel to any spot in the world.

*Harvesting resources so reminds me of SWG. Hell, when you chop down a tree for wood the tree actually falls to the ground where you can then harvest it.
Harvesting is absolutely nothing like SWG. Resources are collected from Nodes that appear in fixed locations. Nodes are pretty sparse and are linked to each other. When one is harvested it's counterpart spawns again, preventing you from farming a single node. Once you find a pattern though, you can run a short route and find your resources without too much hunting, as the node locations never change.
Nodes for wood look like trees, and you do see an animation for chopping down the tree, along with the tree falling at the end. Harvesting was initially a little more intricate, with harvesting actions that you fired during the process. Now it is just based on your gear and the number of players group-harvesting. Your harvesting level dictates which types of resource you are able to harvest, with lower level resources being in low level areas. Unfortunately this means that you do need to raise your adventuring level along with your harvesting level... meaning that the only way to be a "pure crafter" would be to buy all your resources.

The complexity that was present in Galaxies is there.

*SWG had space travel - Vanguard has sea travel! Huge open oceans to travel upon with your player-made boats of all sizes.

The difference here is that the oceans, which make up a vast majority of the game world, are almost entirely devoid of anything of interest.... Hopefully this will change later. Boats and ships are pretty poorly implemented right now, and aren't good for anything other than a status symbol. Even the largest ships have no interior areas and are coded in such a way that they will probably never have any below deck areas.... as that space is filled with water. You do not need a boat to travel between continents, and they have no combat abilities. They really are just for show at this point.
They have said they have big plans for decorating your boat like a house. Yeah, marine life has not been added yet. Boats are a big big part of Vanguard. Wait and see....

*You can tame wild beasts and mount them. In Vanguard you can fly dozens of mounts
There is no taming of creatures in Vanguard. You can buy mounts, but they simply pop up under you when summoned and disappear when you get off them. I have heard that you can dismount them now, but it isn't something I can confirm. There are NOT dozens of types of flying mounts, there are only a few, but you can fly them anywhere.
Wrong.

*The most amazing character-creation options ever. Period.
Character creation pales in comparison to SWG. You have all the same sliders for proportions, but only a few options for face and hair, everyone really does look the same. This is something I assume they will expand on as time passes, but right now it is about as diverse as Ryzom. For the record, the "most amazing character-creation ever. Period" can be found in City of Heroes / Villains.
I agree but the potential is there just needs some polish. You'll see.

*You can custom design clothes, armor, weapons and even 'brand' it with your own logo.

Hmmm... I have never seen anything like this in vanguard. All crafted armor and weapons look the same, there isn't even a phase of crafting that allows you to edit the appearance or even the color of armor. You can buy dye to color cloth, but not armor of any kind. They have stated several times that you will never be able to edit the appearance of armor or weapons, not even in the crafting process. The game does force you to decide between being more combat effective in mix-matched armor or wearing a full matched suit that doesn't necessarily have the protects or bonuses you would want. Most people are running around in 5 different colors of armor, but they still manage to all look roughly the same.

This has been confirmed a dozen times by the devs. Wait and see.

*You can create and name your own songs (Bard).

* Item decay! And the most impressive crafting system ever devised.
Items do not decay to the point that they leave the world, stats do not change as items decay, they simply become unusable when they hit zero. Decay is repaired by NPCs, and is nothing more than a cash-drain. The crafting process is OK, but the end result is pretty limited. Your crafted goods are exactly the same as the next crafter down the road, in stats and appearance. One thing that really bothers me about progressing in your crafting skill is that you have no option other than grinding work orders. You only get XP for creating items the first time you make them. It is not possible to progress as a crafter simply by making and selling useful items. GRINDING WORK ORDERS IS THE ONLY OPTION.
All I can say is your way off here.

*The CHALLENGE you sorely miss... is back!
The game isn't more challenging than other games out there, you just level slower due to low XP gain and a stiffer death penalty. Gameplay itself is just like every other fantasy MMO... you have four or five skills you fire in succession.. 1,2,3,1,2,3. You have a pool of 100 endurance (everyone does) and refresh timers on your skills. All players of your class at your level have the same skills. Character progression is more like NGE SWG than the previous, skill-based system.
Dude, now I know you don't know much about the game. I change my Stance mid combat depending on how it's going. I try different tactics mid combat. Whatever.

And with that I'm done with this thread.

TommyKHart · February 2007

Soe didn't want to change swg. . It was those who own the rights to star wars (lucas arts i guess) that wanted it changed. Not soe.

Vanguard will change. There bill be nurfs and improvements to classes / travel / etc. This happens in all mmo's.

Nooblord · February 2007

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Fignar No one refuted anything I said over at the SWG forum. In fact out of the 150+ posts not a single person refuted a single thing. But nice try.

Watch this: www.fileplanet.com/163792/160000/fileinfo/Vanguard:-Saga-of-Heroes-Movie:-Player-Housing

In this video Jeff Butler compares Vanguard to SWG many times.

Being that Raph Koster and Brad McQuaid are both not only good friends but both considered rebels inside the industry, it's not surprising Vanguard is created in the same spirit as UO and SWG. I'm sorry but you are the one who is dead wrong.

Originally posted by Nikoz78

*No zones/instances. Just 1 freaking HUGE open world in Vanguard!

I think this is one of the most misleading things they have said about this game. There ARE zones, they just call them chunks. The map is laid out in almost exactly the same manner as Anarchy Online. The zones are placed beside each other on a flat map so you can travel freely between them. There is a brief load time but no load screen (again just like AO). You can not draw agro or attack across a chunk line. You can not be followed by a mob across a chunk line either. You can cross the entire map by staying near the chunk lines and stepping across it any time you draw agro. The chunks are actually not very big, and some points of interest are unfortunately close to chunk lines, or even worse in the corner were 4 chunks intersect. You will notice off behavior of mobs and NPCs near chunk lines, such as warping around or walking backward.

Dude, there are NO zones. I don't experience any "load times." Maybe it's your system. I can draw agro over a chunk. I've been chased over a chunk a 100 times. And I can see everything that is happening over a chunk. I do agree strange things, like animals running fast and vanishing does happen around chunks. But this game is 100% zone free. Maybe you need to upgrade your rig.
Yellow is right here.

*Player placed houses. The houses are not zoned. The only difference is you can only build on pre-determined plots in order to protect the environment (brilliant, SWG should have done this). The home decoration options are about 100 times that of SWG. You can even build a house on any one of hundreds of remote islands.
Houses are fairly similar to the way they were in SWG, except for the fact that they can only be built on designated plots. The exact placement of houses is decided by the devs, the plots are on roads and show up as an empty lot with a square of dirt marking the house plot and a for sale sign. You cant just find a nice spot on a mountain top or an island and build your house there like you could in SWG. The plots are spread around the world, and not in housing zones like they are in DAoC. other than that, housing placement itself is similar to DAoC.
One of the STUPIDEST things in SWG was all the houses everywhere turned every which way. This is evolution. SWG should have done the same thing.

*In Vanguard there are literally over 60,000 items in the world already and every single item can be dropped in your house like in SWG.
This one is pretty cool, and one area where the game is a lot like SWG.

*Vanguard features the "you can go anywhere" mentality. If you see it you can go there.
Again, this one is accurate and pretty cool. You can't scale steep hills like you could in SWG, so they are used quite a bit as borders or boundaries. Once you get access to a flying mount you can actually travel to any spot in the world.

*Harvesting resources so reminds me of SWG. Hell, when you chop down a tree for wood the tree actually falls to the ground where you can then harvest it.
Harvesting is absolutely nothing like SWG. Resources are collected from Nodes that appear in fixed locations. Nodes are pretty sparse and are linked to each other. When one is harvested it's counterpart spawns again, preventing you from farming a single node. Once you find a pattern though, you can run a short route and find your resources without too much hunting, as the node locations never change.
Nodes for wood look like trees, and you do see an animation for chopping down the tree, along with the tree falling at the end. Harvesting was initially a little more intricate, with harvesting actions that you fired during the process. Now it is just based on your gear and the number of players group-harvesting. Your harvesting level dictates which types of resource you are able to harvest, with lower level resources being in low level areas. Unfortunately this means that you do need to raise your adventuring level along with your harvesting level... meaning that the only way to be a "pure crafter" would be to buy all your resources.

The complexity that was present in Galaxies is there.

*SWG had space travel - Vanguard has sea travel! Huge open oceans to travel upon with your player-made boats of all sizes.

The difference here is that the oceans, which make up a vast majority of the game world, are almost entirely devoid of anything of interest.... Hopefully this will change later. Boats and ships are pretty poorly implemented right now, and aren't good for anything other than a status symbol. Even the largest ships have no interior areas and are coded in such a way that they will probably never have any below deck areas.... as that space is filled with water. You do not need a boat to travel between continents, and they have no combat abilities. They really are just for show at this point.
They have said they have big plans for decorating your boat like a house. Yeah, marine life has not been added yet. Boats are a big big part of Vanguard. Wait and see....

Yellow again.

*You can tame wild beasts and mount them. In Vanguard you can fly dozens of mounts
There is no taming of creatures in Vanguard. You can buy mounts, but they simply pop up under you when summoned and disappear when you get off them. I have heard that you can dismount them now, but it isn't something I can confirm. There are NOT dozens of types of flying mounts, there are only a few, but you can fly them anywhere.
Wrong.

*The most amazing character-creation options ever. Period.
Character creation pales in comparison to SWG. You have all the same sliders for proportions, but only a few options for face and hair, everyone really does look the same. This is something I assume they will expand on as time passes, but right now it is about as diverse as Ryzom. For the record, the "most amazing character-creation ever. Period" can be found in City of Heroes / Villains.
I agree but the potential is there just needs some polish. You'll see.

Second time for 'You'll see or wait and see'
*You can custom design clothes, armor, weapons and even 'brand' it with your own logo.

Hmmm... I have never seen anything like this in vanguard. All crafted armor and weapons look the same, there isn't even a phase of crafting that allows you to edit the appearance or even the color of armor. You can buy dye to color cloth, but not armor of any kind. They have stated several times that you will never be able to edit the appearance of armor or weapons, not even in the crafting process. The game does force you to decide between being more combat effective in mix-matched armor or wearing a full matched suit that doesn't necessarily have the protects or bonuses you would want. Most people are running around in 5 different colors of armor, but they still manage to all look roughly the same.

This has been confirmed a dozen times by the devs. Wait and see.

oh! Third time.

*You can create and name your own songs (Bard).

* Item decay! And the most impressive crafting system ever devised.
Items do not decay to the point that they leave the world, stats do not change as items decay, they simply become unusable when they hit zero. Decay is repaired by NPCs, and is nothing more than a cash-drain. The crafting process is OK, but the end result is pretty limited. Your crafted goods are exactly the same as the next crafter down the road, in stats and appearance. One thing that really bothers me about progressing in your crafting skill is that you have no option other than grinding work orders. You only get XP for creating items the first time you make them. It is not possible to progress as a crafter simply by making and selling useful items. GRINDING WORK ORDERS IS THE ONLY OPTION.
All I can say is your way off here.
wait and see?
*The CHALLENGE you sorely miss... is back!
The game isn't more challenging than other games out there, you just level slower due to low XP gain and a stiffer death penalty. Gameplay itself is just like every other fantasy MMO... you have four or five skills you fire in succession.. 1,2,3,1,2,3. You have a pool of 100 endurance (everyone does) and refresh timers on your skills. All players of your class at your level have the same skills. Character progression is more like NGE SWG than the previous, skill-based system.
Dude, now I know you don't know much about the game. I change my Stance mid combat depending on how it's going. I try different tactics mid combat. Whatever.

Just like other MMO's out there now.

And with that I'm done with this thread.

From what Mr. Blue Text Vanboi has to say - I have to 'wait and see'... How long? Are you sure these things will be implemented? How do you know? Please provide evidence.

You have convinced me that I shouldn't go near this game for 3-12 months, depending on when I see what I'm waiting for... could be never....

Bakgrind · February 2007

Originally posted by Nooblord

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Fignar No one refuted anything I said over at the SWG forum. In fact out of the 150+ posts not a single person refuted a single thing. But nice try.

Watch this: www.fileplanet.com/163792/160000/fileinfo/Vanguard:-Saga-of-Heroes-Movie:-Player-Housing

In this video Jeff Butler compares Vanguard to SWG many times.

Being that Raph Koster and Brad McQuaid are both not only good friends but both considered rebels inside the industry, it's not surprising Vanguard is created in the same spirit as UO and SWG. I'm sorry but you are the one who is dead wrong.

Originally posted by Nikoz78

*No zones/instances. Just 1 freaking HUGE open world in Vanguard!

I think this is one of the most misleading things they have said about this game. There ARE zones, they just call them chunks. The map is laid out in almost exactly the same manner as Anarchy Online. The zones are placed beside each other on a flat map so you can travel freely between them. There is a brief load time but no load screen (again just like AO). You can not draw agro or attack across a chunk line. You can not be followed by a mob across a chunk line either. You can cross the entire map by staying near the chunk lines and stepping across it any time you draw agro. The chunks are actually not very big, and some points of interest are unfortunately close to chunk lines, or even worse in the corner were 4 chunks intersect. You will notice off behavior of mobs and NPCs near chunk lines, such as warping around or walking backward.

Dude, there are NO zones. I don't experience any "load times." Maybe it's your system. I can draw agro over a chunk. I've been chased over a chunk a 100 times. And I can see everything that is happening over a chunk. I do agree strange things, like animals running fast and vanishing does happen around chunks. But this game is 100% zone free. Maybe you need to upgrade your rig.
Yellow is right here.

*Player placed houses. The houses are not zoned. The only difference is you can only build on pre-determined plots in order to protect the environment (brilliant, SWG should have done this). The home decoration options are about 100 times that of SWG. You can even build a house on any one of hundreds of remote islands.
Houses are fairly similar to the way they were in SWG, except for the fact that they can only be built on designated plots. The exact placement of houses is decided by the devs, the plots are on roads and show up as an empty lot with a square of dirt marking the house plot and a for sale sign. You cant just find a nice spot on a mountain top or an island and build your house there like you could in SWG. The plots are spread around the world, and not in housing zones like they are in DAoC. other than that, housing placement itself is similar to DAoC.
One of the STUPIDEST things in SWG was all the houses everywhere turned every which way. This is evolution. SWG should have done the same thing.

*In Vanguard there are literally over 60,000 items in the world already and every single item can be dropped in your house like in SWG.
This one is pretty cool, and one area where the game is a lot like SWG.

*Vanguard features the "you can go anywhere" mentality. If you see it you can go there.
Again, this one is accurate and pretty cool. You can't scale steep hills like you could in SWG, so they are used quite a bit as borders or boundaries. Once you get access to a flying mount you can actually travel to any spot in the world.

*Harvesting resources so reminds me of SWG. Hell, when you chop down a tree for wood the tree actually falls to the ground where you can then harvest it.
Harvesting is absolutely nothing like SWG. Resources are collected from Nodes that appear in fixed locations. Nodes are pretty sparse and are linked to each other. When one is harvested it's counterpart spawns again, preventing you from farming a single node. Once you find a pattern though, you can run a short route and find your resources without too much hunting, as the node locations never change.
Nodes for wood look like trees, and you do see an animation for chopping down the tree, along with the tree falling at the end. Harvesting was initially a little more intricate, with harvesting actions that you fired during the process. Now it is just based on your gear and the number of players group-harvesting. Your harvesting level dictates which types of resource you are able to harvest, with lower level resources being in low level areas. Unfortunately this means that you do need to raise your adventuring level along with your harvesting level... meaning that the only way to be a "pure crafter" would be to buy all your resources.

The complexity that was present in Galaxies is there.

*SWG had space travel - Vanguard has sea travel! Huge open oceans to travel upon with your player-made boats of all sizes.

The difference here is that the oceans, which make up a vast majority of the game world, are almost entirely devoid of anything of interest.... Hopefully this will change later. Boats and ships are pretty poorly implemented right now, and aren't good for anything other than a status symbol. Even the largest ships have no interior areas and are coded in such a way that they will probably never have any below deck areas.... as that space is filled with water. You do not need a boat to travel between continents, and they have no combat abilities. They really are just for show at this point.
They have said they have big plans for decorating your boat like a house. Yeah, marine life has not been added yet. Boats are a big big part of Vanguard. Wait and see....

Yellow again.

*You can tame wild beasts and mount them. In Vanguard you can fly dozens of mounts
There is no taming of creatures in Vanguard. You can buy mounts, but they simply pop up under you when summoned and disappear when you get off them. I have heard that you can dismount them now, but it isn't something I can confirm. There are NOT dozens of types of flying mounts, there are only a few, but you can fly them anywhere.
Wrong.

*The most amazing character-creation options ever. Period.
Character creation pales in comparison to SWG. You have all the same sliders for proportions, but only a few options for face and hair, everyone really does look the same. This is something I assume they will expand on as time passes, but right now it is about as diverse as Ryzom. For the record, the "most amazing character-creation ever. Period" can be found in City of Heroes / Villains.
I agree but the potential is there just needs some polish. You'll see.

Second time for 'You'll see or wait and see'
*You can custom design clothes, armor, weapons and even 'brand' it with your own logo.

Hmmm... I have never seen anything like this in vanguard. All crafted armor and weapons look the same, there isn't even a phase of crafting that allows you to edit the appearance or even the color of armor. You can buy dye to color cloth, but not armor of any kind. They have stated several times that you will never be able to edit the appearance of armor or weapons, not even in the crafting process. The game does force you to decide between being more combat effective in mix-matched armor or wearing a full matched suit that doesn't necessarily have the protects or bonuses you would want. Most people are running around in 5 different colors of armor, but they still manage to all look roughly the same.

This has been confirmed a dozen times by the devs. Wait and see.

oh! Third time.

*You can create and name your own songs (Bard).

* Item decay! And the most impressive crafting system ever devised.
Items do not decay to the point that they leave the world, stats do not change as items decay, they simply become unusable when they hit zero. Decay is repaired by NPCs, and is nothing more than a cash-drain. The crafting process is OK, but the end result is pretty limited. Your crafted goods are exactly the same as the next crafter down the road, in stats and appearance. One thing that really bothers me about progressing in your crafting skill is that you have no option other than grinding work orders. You only get XP for creating items the first time you make them. It is not possible to progress as a crafter simply by making and selling useful items. GRINDING WORK ORDERS IS THE ONLY OPTION.
All I can say is your way off here.
wait and see?
*The CHALLENGE you sorely miss... is back!
The game isn't more challenging than other games out there, you just level slower due to low XP gain and a stiffer death penalty. Gameplay itself is just like every other fantasy MMO... you have four or five skills you fire in succession.. 1,2,3,1,2,3. You have a pool of 100 endurance (everyone does) and refresh timers on your skills. All players of your class at your level have the same skills. Character progression is more like NGE SWG than the previous, skill-based system.
Dude, now I know you don't know much about the game. I change my Stance mid combat depending on how it's going. I try different tactics mid combat. Whatever.

Just like other MMO's out there now.

And with that I'm done with this thread.

From what Mr. Blue Text Vanboi has to say - I have to 'wait and see'... How long? Are you sure these things will be implemented? How do you know? Please provide evidence.

You have convinced me that I shouldn't go near this game for 3-12 months, depending on when I see what I'm waiting for... could be never....I would lean more towards the 12 months than sooner

Shastra · February 2007

Originally posted by JackBauer24

I am thinking about getting this game but I am not sure. I would like to hear the pros and cons about this game. First I also have another question:

Do you think SOE will bring down this game as it did SWG?

And are the concepts like SWG? (EX: like Pre CU swg but not starwarsy)?

Heres what I like in mmos:

Lots of variety in weapons and items

Massive battles

Good strong mature community

Good graphics

umm those are the main things i really dont have to mention the little things

This game is nothing like SW. DOn't believe what this Nikoz guy says. if you want to know the truth and unbiased opinion i suggest you visit SWG veteran forums and get to know more about SWG (pre-cu if you have never played SWG before). Then try the free trial and see for yourself. But trust me, this game is NOTHING like SWG. Not even close to the fun that pre-cu SWG was.

Fignar · February 2007

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Fignar No one refuted anything I said over at the SWG forum. In fact out of the 150+ posts not a single person refuted a single thing. But nice try.

Watch this: www.fileplanet.com/163792/160000/fileinfo/Vanguard:-Saga-of-Heroes-Movie:-Player-Housing

In this video Jeff Butler compares Vanguard to SWG many times.

Being that Raph Koster and Brad McQuaid are both not only good friends but both considered rebels inside the industry, it's not surprising Vanguard is created in the same spirit as UO and SWG. I'm sorry but you are the one who is dead wrong.

Originally posted by Nikoz78

*No zones/instances. Just 1 freaking HUGE open world in Vanguard!

I think this is one of the most misleading things they have said about this game. There ARE zones, they just call them chunks. The map is laid out in almost exactly the same manner as Anarchy Online. The zones are placed beside each other on a flat map so you can travel freely between them. There is a brief load time but no load screen (again just like AO). You can not draw agro or attack across a chunk line. You can not be followed by a mob across a chunk line either. You can cross the entire map by staying near the chunk lines and stepping across it any time you draw agro. The chunks are actually not very big, and some points of interest are unfortunately close to chunk lines, or even worse in the corner were 4 chunks intersect. You will notice off behavior of mobs and NPCs near chunk lines, such as warping around or walking backward.

Dude, there are NO zones. I don't experience any "load times." Maybe it's your system. I can draw agro over a chunk. I've been chased over a chunk a 100 times. And I can see everything that is happening over a chunk. I do agree strange things, like animals running fast and vanishing does happen around chunks. But this game is 100% zone free. Maybe you need to upgrade your rig.
*Player placed houses. The houses are not zoned. The only difference is you can only build on pre-determined plots in order to protect the environment (brilliant, SWG should have done this). The home decoration options are about 100 times that of SWG. You can even build a house on any one of hundreds of remote islands.
Houses are fairly similar to the way they were in SWG, except for the fact that they can only be built on designated plots. The exact placement of houses is decided by the devs, the plots are on roads and show up as an empty lot with a square of dirt marking the house plot and a for sale sign. You cant just find a nice spot on a mountain top or an island and build your house there like you could in SWG. The plots are spread around the world, and not in housing zones like they are in DAoC. other than that, housing placement itself is similar to DAoC.
One of the STUPIDEST things in SWG was all the houses everywhere turned every which way. This is evolution. SWG should have done the same thing.

*In Vanguard there are literally over 60,000 items in the world already and every single item can be dropped in your house like in SWG.
This one is pretty cool, and one area where the game is a lot like SWG.

*Vanguard features the "you can go anywhere" mentality. If you see it you can go there.
Again, this one is accurate and pretty cool. You can't scale steep hills like you could in SWG, so they are used quite a bit as borders or boundaries. Once you get access to a flying mount you can actually travel to any spot in the world.

*Harvesting resources so reminds me of SWG. Hell, when you chop down a tree for wood the tree actually falls to the ground where you can then harvest it.
Harvesting is absolutely nothing like SWG. Resources are collected from Nodes that appear in fixed locations. Nodes are pretty sparse and are linked to each other. When one is harvested it's counterpart spawns again, preventing you from farming a single node. Once you find a pattern though, you can run a short route and find your resources without too much hunting, as the node locations never change.
Nodes for wood look like trees, and you do see an animation for chopping down the tree, along with the tree falling at the end. Harvesting was initially a little more intricate, with harvesting actions that you fired during the process. Now it is just based on your gear and the number of players group-harvesting. Your harvesting level dictates which types of resource you are able to harvest, with lower level resources being in low level areas. Unfortunately this means that you do need to raise your adventuring level along with your harvesting level... meaning that the only way to be a "pure crafter" would be to buy all your resources.

The complexity that was present in Galaxies is there.

*SWG had space travel - Vanguard has sea travel! Huge open oceans to travel upon with your player-made boats of all sizes.

The difference here is that the oceans, which make up a vast majority of the game world, are almost entirely devoid of anything of interest.... Hopefully this will change later. Boats and ships are pretty poorly implemented right now, and aren't good for anything other than a status symbol. Even the largest ships have no interior areas and are coded in such a way that they will probably never have any below deck areas.... as that space is filled with water. You do not need a boat to travel between continents, and they have no combat abilities. They really are just for show at this point.
They have said they have big plans for decorating your boat like a house. Yeah, marine life has not been added yet. Boats are a big big part of Vanguard. Wait and see....

*You can tame wild beasts and mount them. In Vanguard you can fly dozens of mounts
There is no taming of creatures in Vanguard. You can buy mounts, but they simply pop up under you when summoned and disappear when you get off them. I have heard that you can dismount them now, but it isn't something I can confirm. There are NOT dozens of types of flying mounts, there are only a few, but you can fly them anywhere.
Wrong.

*The most amazing character-creation options ever. Period.
Character creation pales in comparison to SWG. You have all the same sliders for proportions, but only a few options for face and hair, everyone really does look the same. This is something I assume they will expand on as time passes, but right now it is about as diverse as Ryzom. For the record, the "most amazing character-creation ever. Period" can be found in City of Heroes / Villains.
I agree but the potential is there just needs some polish. You'll see.

*You can custom design clothes, armor, weapons and even 'brand' it with your own logo.

Hmmm... I have never seen anything like this in vanguard. All crafted armor and weapons look the same, there isn't even a phase of crafting that allows you to edit the appearance or even the color of armor. You can buy dye to color cloth, but not armor of any kind. They have stated several times that you will never be able to edit the appearance of armor or weapons, not even in the crafting process. The game does force you to decide between being more combat effective in mix-matched armor or wearing a full matched suit that doesn't necessarily have the protects or bonuses you would want. Most people are running around in 5 different colors of armor, but they still manage to all look roughly the same.

This has been confirmed a dozen times by the devs. Wait and see.

*You can create and name your own songs (Bard).

* Item decay! And the most impressive crafting system ever devised.
Items do not decay to the point that they leave the world, stats do not change as items decay, they simply become unusable when they hit zero. Decay is repaired by NPCs, and is nothing more than a cash-drain. The crafting process is OK, but the end result is pretty limited. Your crafted goods are exactly the same as the next crafter down the road, in stats and appearance. One thing that really bothers me about progressing in your crafting skill is that you have no option other than grinding work orders. You only get XP for creating items the first time you make them. It is not possible to progress as a crafter simply by making and selling useful items. GRINDING WORK ORDERS IS THE ONLY OPTION.
All I can say is your way off here.

*The CHALLENGE you sorely miss... is back!
The game isn't more challenging than other games out there, you just level slower due to low XP gain and a stiffer death penalty. Gameplay itself is just like every other fantasy MMO... you have four or five skills you fire in succession.. 1,2,3,1,2,3. You have a pool of 100 endurance (everyone does) and refresh timers on your skills. All players of your class at your level have the same skills. Character progression is more like NGE SWG than the previous, skill-based system.
Dude, now I know you don't know much about the game. I change my Stance mid combat depending on how it's going. I try different tactics mid combat. Whatever.

And with that I'm done with this thread.

I suggest you go back and read the thread again in the SWG forums, people refuted your BS in that thread, yes you like this game but no point trying to claim Vanguard is something that it is not. My refute claims regard the crafting and to me it is clear you no sod all about the crafting in Vanguard and that of SWG, I crafted in SWG for 3 years and was a server best Armoursmith in my time

, and i'm sorry VGSOH's crafting system is no where near as complex as SWG's it's nice but it's completely different but lacking.

I would also suggest you stop posting this crap at every given opportunity as you are starting to make yourself look like a "Vanboi" I can tell your intentions are good but don't try to fluff up a game when it is one thing and claiming it is another.

You don't see me bragging about how uber Vanguard is and I currently play it and I don't feel compelled to start writing overly excited posts making exaggerated claims about the game, and I like VGSOH.

(P.S. If i sound harsh i don't mean to )

Shastra · February 2007

Originally posted by Fignar

I suggest you go back and read the thread again in the SWG forums, people refuted your BS in that thread, yes you like this game but no point trying to claim Vanguard is something that it is not. My refute claims regard the crafting and to me it is clear you no sod all about the crafting in Vanguard and that of SWG, I crafted in SWG for 3 years and was a server best Armoursmith in my time , and i'm sorry VGSOH's crafting system is no where near as complex as SWG's it's nice but it's completely different but lacking.

I would also suggest you stop posting this crap at every given opportunity as you are starting to make yourself look like a "Vanboi" I can tell your intentions are good but don't try to fluff up a game when it is one thing and claiming it is another.

You don't see me bragging about how uber Vanguard is and I currently play it and I don't feel compelled to start writing overly excited posts making exaggerated claims about the game, and I like VGSOH.

Fignar i am telling you its Brad.. he sounds desperate its BRAD!!

Distopia · February 2007

Originally posted by Shastra

Originally posted by JackBauer24

I am thinking about getting this game but I am not sure. I would like to hear the pros and cons about this game. First I also have another question:

Do you think SOE will bring down this game as it did SWG?

And are the concepts like SWG? (EX: like Pre CU swg but not starwarsy)?

Heres what I like in mmos:

Lots of variety in weapons and items

Massive battles

Good strong mature community

Good graphics

umm those are the main things i really dont have to mention the little things

This game is nothing like SW. DOn't believe what this Nikoz guy says. if you want to know the truth and unbiased opinion i suggest you visit SWG veteran forums and get to know more about SWG (pre-cu if you have never played SWG before). Then try the free trial and see for yourself. But trust me, this game is NOTHING like SWG. Not even close to the fun that pre-cu SWG was. That is not entirely accurate , It is not SWG pre-cu (nothing is) . But it does offer more than the average game , Like SWG did . It is not all that different than SWG during the cu , But it has distinct gameplay differences , And it does not offer a skill based profession system . . I as a 3 year SWG vet can say that Vanguard is one of the closest things to pre-cu on the market , It's definitely more like pre-cu than NGE is . When I see someone ask if a game is like SWG I don't take that to be asking , Is it exactly like it . You guys seem to be bickering just to nit pick about fine details , When it's a question about personal opinion . Where one may see similarities , Another may not . But anyone who was a SWG vet is entitled to answer in their own opinion .

BTW Just because someone likes the game dosen't mean that their opinion is biased .

Secondly you are pointing the guy to the SWG forum to receive an ubiased opinion ?

. The refugee forum is the most unbiased place to visit to get an opinion of a game published by SOE .

discofox · February 2007

Vanguard is the same old tank, dps, healer grind style game than any other fantasy MMORPG out there.

The so called called "diplomacy sphere" is currently nothing more than a card game against NPCs. Though they announced to make it possible to duel other players with anime style cards decks too, this won't have any impact on the regular gameplay of Vanguard.

The crafting, while nowhere as simplistic as in WoW doesn't even come close to what pre-cu SWG offered.

Moreover unlike Vanguard in pre-CU SWG there were real socializer classes , like entertainer, musicians, image designer or medics. An entertainer for example could heal mind wounds while a medic could heal normal wounds and so on. As a musician you could form an ingame band and such...

A smuggler could slice weapons altering different stats. and therfore improving already great weapons, though there was a small chance to break them. So several professions could work together to create truely diverse products.

By learning tradeskills you could start to place NPC vendors in your houses, fully customizable in appearance, you could even let them talk to your customers with your very own text messages making them advertize your products, or just say hello.

However the much advanced game design ideas in SWG were not successful in the MMORPG market at that time, maybe because the concept was too different for some players playstyles and what people were expecting of a Star Wars game.

People who focused on fighter skills, and that was the majority, didn't want "crafters" to be able to experiment and ultimately craft better items than what was available in loot. People wanted to camp "boss mobs" for ready-to-use weapons and sell loot like they were used to in other games, instead of selling blueprints and resources to crafters to build even better products.

People didn't like being depended on other classes, they did not want to visit a doctor to get help with some physical injuryor or an entertainer to chill and rest their minds... for a powergamer such social interaction just equaled "losing time". They did not like the idea of having to go to a crafter (player) to get their stuff repaired or their vehicle disabled because of decay.

So Sony did away with item decay and introduced the WoW-ish itemization style with uber-loot, effectively killing the economy.

Players screamed for "more content" instead of developing their own. People wanted to be entertained being lazy doing pre-made quests, just like watching a hollywood movie with the only difference of influencing the outcome of a movie by pressing a button at some point.

But the above all argument why Vanguard can never become a pre-cu SWG like game experience is that it is based on a linear level system. Characters in Vanguard have levels. This alone has more impact than you can possible imagine, it totally changes gameplay and how people deal with each other.

In contrast pre-cu SWG had an "open end" gameplay design, there really was no need for "quests" and such as roleplayers could make their own content in this sandbox style world. You could freely combine different skills and abilities to learn what you think your character needs to play a useful and fun role in the Star Wars universe.

You could learn some tailoring, become a famed dancer, be a Tera Kasi fighter and join the Rebellion and maybe even find out you are force sensitive and decide to advance in this sphere of the game and become a Jedi later on,,, all with ONE character. You could for e.g. at any point in the game decide to give up your career as a smuggler and start learning how to tame wild animals slowly becoming a professional creature handler.

As a creature handler you could not only tame pets and sell them to other players as mounts, or let them fight for you, no - you could learn their abilities and teach them to other animals you tamed. You could also , with the help of a bio engineer design new animals, with new looks and different abilities.

In preCU you were not a level 34 human fighter. You were a human (or alien race) able to learn whatever you liked to whatever degree of specialization you desired.

The housing system in SWG is yet to be surpassed by any other game. You could even design the interior of your spaceships. Some player became politicians and run for mayor in player towns, players where allowed to place their houses everywhere on a planet, not just in some predefined "build slots".

In SWG there were some peeps doing nothing but selling "energy" they gathered with different solar and wind-reactors others specialized in harvesting special resources and build up full scale plants in the desert. As a famed entertainer you could one day open up your own cantina and advertise your own show and charge for admittance...

To sum it up, yes Vanguard may be a fun game like WoW in its own rights, but if you like the freedom in gameplay I tried to describe above you can do nothing right now but wait for this emulator (www.swgemu.com) to be finished.

There is nothing like pre-CU SWG around on the games market today. In a way the hugh success of WoW was a retrograde step for the whole MMORPG genre.

The only thing that I could imagine coming close to the freedom in gameplay SWG once had is this game called "Roma Victor" which tries to simulate life back during the times of the Romanian Empire in Europe, however I hated my Latin lessons in school sooooooooooo much that I highly doubt I'll ever check it out.

Though the main reason I never checked Roma Victor is that it reminded me of this dread game named "Entropia Universe" , "a game that should not be called a game" , as the developers stated themselves. Basically you have to pay money to advance in this game to a level that makes playing fun, Roma Victor seems to have a similar backdoor financing model called VERM? which is enough to scare me away.

regards,

Lena

MX13 · February 2007

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Originally posted by Fignar

It's not like SWG pre-cu at all, its an updated version of your general fantasy MMO.

I have to disagree on this point. Reposted from another thread:

Just a few of Vanguards features:

*No zones/instances. Just 1 freaking HUGE open world in Vanguard!

*Player placed houses. The houses are not zoned. The only difference is you can only build on pre-determined plots in order to protect the environment (brilliant, SWG should have done this). The home decoration options are about 100 times that of SWG. You can even build a house on any one of hundreds of remote islands.

*In Vanguard there are literally over 60,000 items in the world already and every single item can be dropped in your house like in SWG.

*Vanguard features the "you can go anywhere" mentality. If you see it you can go there.

*Harvesting resources so reminds me of SWG. Hell, when you chop down a tree for wood the tree actually falls to the ground where you can then harvest it.

*SWG had space travel - Vanguard has sea travel! Huge open oceans to travel upon with your player-made boats of all sizes.

*You can tame wild beasts and mount them. In Vanguard you can fly dozens of mounts anywhere!

*The most amazing character-creation options ever. Period.

*You can custom design clothes, armor, weapons and even 'brand' it with your own logo.

*You can create and name your own songs (Bard).

* Item decay! And the most impressive crafting system ever devised.

*The CHALLENGE you sorely miss... is back!

QFE

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