Blizz has confirmed they are working on a MMO, but "it will be nothing like WoW" ( Link )
Blizz exec said at the launch of WoW:TBC "we hope gamers wont have to wait a decade b4 the next stacraft", starcraft released in 1998. ( Link )
Blizz boss said they have 1 major announcment to make in 2007 are currently working on 3 projects. ( Link )
To me this spells a MMO/RTS hybrid with starcraft perhaps, imagin a persistant online only starcraft universe, like WH40k:Dawn of war or Totalwar single player map campain where you take territory and ultimatly your guild gets to control an entire planet... maybe.
What ever Blizzard makes, we know it will be gold, they have yet to release a sub-par product.
Warcraft the MMO Diablo the RTS Starcraft the ActionRPG (because SC is still so popular, why compete with yourself.) Really guys, having more than one MMO on the market isn't competing with yourself, it's holding on to more of the market. (This is the stratagy being used by NCsoft I think.)
Starcraft hasn't sold a lot from maybe 2001 and on. Its not like a MMORPG in that you have to pay every month. So releasing a new RTS isn't really competing with yourself. It is possible they will release a retail only game, as it is a one time sale and would not really affect the WoW market.
However from the corporate stand, why would they create/sell games without a monthly fee, would you still sell candies when you can sell cars and real estate? Although it might not happen, but im nervously sure that the next of Diablo/Starcraft would be online games. Milking you monthly with an addictive game.
Exactly how would a Diablo mmorpg be that different from World of Warcraft?
The assassin class was effectlivey translated straight over to WoW as the Rogue class.
The Diablo skill system is WoW talents.
The demonic other-worldly atmosphere is largely the Undead lands in WoW.
Armor sets are employed in WoW.
Jewel/Gem socketing is now used in WoW.
At this time about the only things that are unique to the Diablo franchise are henchmen, javelins and corpse explosion. I just don't see how they could justify translating it to an mmorpg over starcraft or creating a new IP.
Actually from a business stand point having more than one MMO out could net them more money. They call it a "dual brand strategy".
Basically think of it like this. (all my numbers are theoretical)
if 75% of all MMO players play WOW and then they introduce a new MMO they will lose current WOW customers to the new game, but they will also bring in fresh customer from other games. So instead of having one game with 75% of the share they will have 2 games with a combined 85% share.
Yes, that may be so... but is 10% more subscribers worth the huge increase in expenses, as you are pretty much doubling them eg cost to make the game, more staff wages, maintenance costs, running costs and all other related expenses?
When they could simply wait until there is another opening in the market, where releasing a new MMO will attract more subscribers from your competitors than simply splitting your existing playerbase and gaining only a small additional share of the market that you are already dominating.
Unless of course the MMO's were each catering for a different audience like a MMORTS and a MMORPG...then it's a whole new ball park.
I think anyone who is expecting a diablo MMORPG to come out within the new few years or while WOW subscriptions are still climbing will be severely disappointed.
I guess time will tell
Maybe the reason why WoW has so many subscriptons is because there isn't any worthwhile competition.
If WoW were to lose subscribers to another Blizzard MMO it would be the perfect situation for them. They could close one of their WoW servers and re-open it for the other game. After buying and maintaining so much server hardware I'm sure they'd want some way to make good on that investment instead of it becoming dead weight when subscribers inevitably move on to something else.
Actually from a business stand point having more than one MMO out could net them more money. They call it a "dual brand strategy".
Basically think of it like this. (all my numbers are theoretical)
if 75% of all MMO players play WOW and then they introduce a new MMO they will lose current WOW customers to the new game, but they will also bring in fresh customer from other games. So instead of having one game with 75% of the share they will have 2 games with a combined 85% share.
Yes, that may be so... but is 10% more subscribers worth the huge increase in expenses, as you are pretty much doubling them eg cost to make the game, more staff wages, maintenance costs, running costs and all other related expenses?
When they could simply wait until there is another opening in the market, where releasing a new MMO will attract more subscribers from your competitors than simply splitting your existing playerbase and gaining only a small additional share of the market that you are already dominating.
Unless of course the MMO's were each catering for a different audience like a MMORTS and a MMORPG...then it's a whole new ball park.
I think anyone who is expecting a diablo MMORPG to come out within the new few years or while WOW subscriptions are still climbing will be severely disappointed.
I guess time will tell
----------------------------------------
Hello again.
Just bringing in another point to the debate. Defending my opinion if you will. And I bring more info and a neat'o link to a chart that I'm sure we've all seen at one point or another.
Anyway. your point of why a company would waste time on a marginal 10% increase in market share would be because there are millions of subscribers.
Please have a look at this page and check out the 120, 000 + graph and the total subscriber graph, as well as the others. Quite informative and the author goes into detail of how he obtained his figures. He admits that his numbers are off, but he does a fantastic job of documenting his method. And to be honest it makes sense.
The figures on this page are far from hard numbers, but even if they are incorrect they do show a trend in subscriptions that I'm sure we can all agree are more than likely the case. The last date he has updated on his chart is Jul/06, but it will do for our needs of this discussion. We can also assume that the number of subscribers has increased from about 12 million to a bit more due to the major releases since 06, ie Burning Crusade, Vanguard, etc...
So, why would a company spend millions of dollars to obtain 10% more of a market share?
10 % of 12,000,000 is 1, 200, 000
average cost of a subscription $14.99
1,200,000 x $14.99 = $17, 988, 000
No chump change for sure. Don't ask me what server and tech costs are... but i'm sure that 17 million could cover that. Might even get them an expresso machine in the lunch room. As for turn around time on the investment? I have no idea what it costs to make an MMO. I've heard of fantastical figures in the 10's of millions, but i make no assumptions and admit my ingnorance on that point.
Just clearing up my thinking on this point. A valid argument was made though and I send this as a respectful rebuttal to the statement made.
Cheerio
Twyn
--------
Edit: cause i'm and idiot and can't figure out how to quote a previous post properly.
No company would release another MMORPG while they have market dominance. Their main compeititor, especially in this case, is themselves. All blizzard needs to do at this point is continue releasing expansion packs and they will gain what, another large % of the market share anyway? They don't need to release a new MMORPG to do that.
Infact all it would do IMO is split their subscriber base across two games which in turn would hurt the remaining playerbase in their original MMO; UNLESS of course their new MMORPG was completely different and attracting a whole NEW playerbase, which would be extremely hard to do at this time, even for blizzard.
World of Warcraft MMORPG
World of Diablo MMORPG
Can you see them being that different? I sure as hell can't.
It's not going to happen, at least not anytime soon.
Hehe, Blizzard is just playing with Funcom and EA/Mythic. They will let them publish their litle games ans when they start to think that they are on to something and started to byte into some of WoW player base, that's the time when Blizzard will strike with a new Titan on the horizon. They will create blitzhype and sweep all with their new monster.
I'm guessing it will be Starcraft in a completly new form...
First off Blizzard can make more than 1 game at a time, they are not a race horse, they do not just have to focus on 1 thing. The most person intensive phase of video game production is development. Development for WoW is over, they do not need all their employees focusing on WoW anymore, they can leave a smaller team to work on bugs, balance, new content. They can also have another smaller team working on expansions, since the big things like fundamental gameplay and graphics engine are already in place. This means that they can focus the majority of their now free employees on different projects, projects such as a new diablo or a new starcraft game.
Secondly the majority of the 7 or 8 million or whatever subscribers Blizzard has are asian, not asian farmers, but asian players. You need to remember in places such as Korea Blizzard is a pop culture icon. They live, breathe, and eat Blizzard games over there, hell they pretty much have a tv channel devoted to Blizzard stuff. Also the end game grind is much more oriented toward the hardcore asian audience, hence why it became such a huge hit over there.
As for the American and European markets, all I have to say is what els is there? Thats right, nothing. Blizzard brought a bunch of its fanbase over from Bnet, but a good chunk of veteran MMO players will most likely not be staying when newer better games come out. Also some of the bnet kiddies will go after the shiny new thing. However I do not see a major decline in WoWs numbers, simply due to its asian playerbase, and due to the fact that many people only play WoW because it is a Blizzard game. They will most likely continue to play WoW until Blizzard creates a new game, whether it be a new MMO, RTS, Hack'n slash or console game.
The only thing that will kill WoW is old age, or a nuclear holocaust, or a massive earthquake in California, or god getting fed up with the game.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I like to watch Blizzard because they can actually keep their mouths shut in the early stages of development, which makes it interesting to guess what they're up to.
Blizzard has confirmed that they have three projects currently in the works. I'm 99% sure that one of them was started a few years back while Blizzard North was still around, and I'm guessing that game is in or nearing alpha. I believe the second one is a console game, and I have no idea about the third.
They've started the first phase of the typical Blizzard media blitz surrounding a game announcement, which is hints dropped to the press. So far, they've been pretty vague, but I'm 90% sure that we'll see a concrete announcement of their next title within the next six months. Will it be Diablo? I highly doubt it.
Here's a bit of history. Blizzard North is the studio that made Diablo and Diablo 2. They were more of an independent studio than a simple division, though they shared many resources with Blizzard proper. In 2003, many high profile Blizzard North employees jumped ship, leaving to form two new studios. Blizzard North puttered along for a while, but it was eventually disbanded with the remaining employees absorbed into Blizzard proper.
Castaway Entertainment is the less well-known of the two resulting companies. All I can tell you is that EA has exclusive publishing rights to their game. The other studio, Flagship, is more well-known. Hellgate: London is their baby.
Here's why I think Diablo is not coming:
When Blizzard North lost most of its employees, two projects were underway by the studio. One of them was cancelled. I'm guessing the cancelled project was the next iteration of the Diablo series. I'd go a step further and say that those who left, the key members, did so because they didn't like the finer points of what they were being asked to make.
Flagship (and the famous Bill Roper) immediately set to producing a 3D technomagic reboot of the Diablo franchise based in London. Hellgate: London was born. I'm guessing that Castaway is making a game with some Diablo-like elements, though I imagine it's more of a traditional RPG than anything else.
Not only that, I'm also very sure that Blizzard knew what direction Castaway and Flagship were going from the earliest stages of those studios' life. I believe that's why Blizzard cancelled the primary Blizzard North project (Diablo 3?) and eventually closed the studio.
Not only had they lost the studio's best talent, but they would end up directly competing with that talent if they pushed the old projects. In other words, their current Diablo 3 project, when finished without the key Blizzard North members, would have been inferior to the rival offerings from Flagship and Castaway.
That's classic Blizzard strategy. While most major publishers are fine with killing cult franchises by releasing crappy additions, Blizzard guards its IP's jealously. They would rather cancel a game attached to one of their major franchises than release something that would even rate 7/10 among the major game sites.
That said, some rumors have been flying around the net regarding a new Diablo game. If it comes, though, I guarantee that it won't be a traditional hack-and-slash. If it's that kind of Diablo 3 that you want, look to Hellgate: London. From what I've seen, it's shaping up to be pretty awesome. If you want more traditional Diablo action, try Titan's Quest or Silverfall.
I would not mind seeing a Diablo themed MMO for one major reason, it is Blizzards only truely Original Franchise. Both Starcraft and Warcraft were sub par rippoffs of various Games Workshop I.P's (Space Hulk/40k & Warhammer respectivly).
It would be nice to head back into the frey alongside demons and angels once again, the original Diablo game was one of the most atmospheric games I have ever played. Although a Starcraft Universe, or Worlds of Starcraft would make a decent MMO there is talk about a Fallout MMO (posibly the greatest RPG of all time) and a Warhammer 40k mmo coming in the next couple of years.
That is an Idiotic statement, its like saying if you want to play a starcraft mmo go play Anarchy Online. Diablo is way darker than wow ever tried to be in fact wow has more in common with lord of the rings than it does Diablo.
Exactly how would a Diablo mmorpg be that different from World of Warcraft?
The assassin class was effectlivey translated straight over to WoW as the Rogue class. The Diablo skill system is WoW talents. The demonic other-worldly atmosphere is largely the Undead lands in WoW. Armor sets are employed in WoW. Jewel/Gem socketing is now used in WoW.
At this time about the only things that are unique to the Diablo franchise are henchmen, javelins and corpse explosion. I just don't see how they could justify translating it to an mmorpg over starcraft or creating a new IP.
This is what I think as well. Blizzard already "cribbed" a lot from Diablo in making WoW. I can't see a Diablo MMO being made, therefore.
That is an Idiotic statement, its like saying if you want to play a starcraft mmo go play Anarchy Online. Diablo is way darker than wow ever tried to be in fact wow has more in common with lord of the rings than it does Diablo.
I think your suggestions are a bit far-fetched. Sure, you don't see "naked" bodies on racks or other tortured positions in WoW (I don't recall anyway) if that's what you mean by dark, but Blizard packed a huge amount of Diablo into WoW already. It really isn't a stretch.
I remember a while ago Blizzard was hiring for both projects (Diablo 3, and Starcraft 2) it was basically only artists or whatever but they were hiring.
As for Diablo 3, I'd rather they didn't make it an mmo and stuck with the same mechanics of the first 2 games in the series. What I'd like to see is male and female of each class with customizable looks, but the same graphic style as Diablo 2 just higher rez. I'd also like to see a longer game with more to do.
I just don't see a reason to turn Diablo into a P2P game since Diablo 2 is almost an MMO only free and limited to 8 players together at a time.
While I'd personally like to see a non-subscription based D2 of SC2, I wouldn't be surprised if their next game was a Starcraft mmo. Probably In the same vein as Planetside.
Comments
A new Starcraft or Diablo would be cooler IMO as a single player game then a MMO... Starcraft 2 *drools*
To me this spells a MMO/RTS hybrid with starcraft perhaps, imagin a persistant online only starcraft universe, like WH40k:Dawn of war or Totalwar single player map campain where you take territory and ultimatly your guild gets to control an entire planet... maybe.
What ever Blizzard makes, we know it will be gold, they have yet to release a sub-par product.
However from the corporate stand, why would they create/sell games without a monthly fee, would you still sell candies when you can sell cars and real estate? Although it might not happen, but im nervously sure that the next of Diablo/Starcraft would be online games. Milking you monthly with an addictive game.
Exactly how would a Diablo mmorpg be that different from World of Warcraft?
At this time about the only things that are unique to the Diablo franchise are henchmen, javelins and corpse explosion. I just don't see how they could justify translating it to an mmorpg over starcraft or creating a new IP.
When they could simply wait until there is another opening in the market, where releasing a new MMO will attract more subscribers from your competitors than simply splitting your existing playerbase and gaining only a small additional share of the market that you are already dominating.
Unless of course the MMO's were each catering for a different audience like a MMORTS and a MMORPG...then it's a whole new ball park.
I think anyone who is expecting a diablo MMORPG to come out within the new few years or while WOW subscriptions are still climbing will be severely disappointed.
I guess time will tell
Maybe the reason why WoW has so many subscriptons is because there isn't any worthwhile competition.
If WoW were to lose subscribers to another Blizzard MMO it would be the perfect situation for them. They could close one of their WoW servers and re-open it for the other game. After buying and maintaining so much server hardware I'm sure they'd want some way to make good on that investment instead of it becoming dead weight when subscribers inevitably move on to something else.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
When they could simply wait until there is another opening in the market, where releasing a new MMO will attract more subscribers from your competitors than simply splitting your existing playerbase and gaining only a small additional share of the market that you are already dominating.
Unless of course the MMO's were each catering for a different audience like a MMORTS and a MMORPG...then it's a whole new ball park.
I think anyone who is expecting a diablo MMORPG to come out within the new few years or while WOW subscriptions are still climbing will be severely disappointed.
I guess time will tell
----------------------------------------
Hello again.
Just bringing in another point to the debate. Defending my opinion if you will. And I bring more info and a neat'o link to a chart that I'm sure we've all seen at one point or another.
Anyway. your point of why a company would waste time on a marginal 10% increase in market share would be because there are millions of subscribers.
Please have a look at this page and check out the 120, 000 + graph and the total subscriber graph, as well as the others. Quite informative and the author goes into detail of how he obtained his figures. He admits that his numbers are off, but he does a fantastic job of documenting his method. And to be honest it makes sense.
http://www.mmogchart.com/
The figures on this page are far from hard numbers, but even if they are incorrect they do show a trend in subscriptions that I'm sure we can all agree are more than likely the case. The last date he has updated on his chart is Jul/06, but it will do for our needs of this discussion. We can also assume that the number of subscribers has increased from about 12 million to a bit more due to the major releases since 06, ie Burning Crusade, Vanguard, etc...
So, why would a company spend millions of dollars to obtain 10% more of a market share?
10 % of 12,000,000 is 1, 200, 000
average cost of a subscription $14.99
1,200,000 x $14.99 = $17, 988, 000
No chump change for sure. Don't ask me what server and tech costs are... but i'm sure that 17 million could cover that. Might even get them an expresso machine in the lunch room. As for turn around time on the investment? I have no idea what it costs to make an MMO. I've heard of fantastical figures in the 10's of millions, but i make no assumptions and admit my ingnorance on that point.
Just clearing up my thinking on this point. A valid argument was made though and I send this as a respectful rebuttal to the statement made.
Cheerio
Twyn
--------
Edit: cause i'm and idiot and can't figure out how to quote a previous post properly.
Infact all it would do IMO is split their subscriber base across two games which in turn would hurt the remaining playerbase in their original MMO; UNLESS of course their new MMORPG was completely different and attracting a whole NEW playerbase, which would be extremely hard to do at this time, even for blizzard.
World of Warcraft MMORPG
World of Diablo MMORPG
Can you see them being that different? I sure as hell can't.
It's not going to happen, at least not anytime soon.
MMORTS? Now that's a different story.
Hehe, Blizzard is just playing with Funcom and EA/Mythic. They will let them publish their litle games ans when they start to think that they are on to something and started to byte into some of WoW player base, that's the time when Blizzard will strike with a new Titan on the horizon. They will create blitzhype and sweep all with their new monster.
I'm guessing it will be Starcraft in a completly new form...
First off Blizzard can make more than 1 game at a time, they are not a race horse, they do not just have to focus on 1 thing. The most person intensive phase of video game production is development. Development for WoW is over, they do not need all their employees focusing on WoW anymore, they can leave a smaller team to work on bugs, balance, new content. They can also have another smaller team working on expansions, since the big things like fundamental gameplay and graphics engine are already in place. This means that they can focus the majority of their now free employees on different projects, projects such as a new diablo or a new starcraft game.
Secondly the majority of the 7 or 8 million or whatever subscribers Blizzard has are asian, not asian farmers, but asian players. You need to remember in places such as Korea Blizzard is a pop culture icon. They live, breathe, and eat Blizzard games over there, hell they pretty much have a tv channel devoted to Blizzard stuff. Also the end game grind is much more oriented toward the hardcore asian audience, hence why it became such a huge hit over there.
As for the American and European markets, all I have to say is what els is there? Thats right, nothing. Blizzard brought a bunch of its fanbase over from Bnet, but a good chunk of veteran MMO players will most likely not be staying when newer better games come out. Also some of the bnet kiddies will go after the shiny new thing. However I do not see a major decline in WoWs numbers, simply due to its asian playerbase, and due to the fact that many people only play WoW because it is a Blizzard game. They will most likely continue to play WoW until Blizzard creates a new game, whether it be a new MMO, RTS, Hack'n slash or console game.
The only thing that will kill WoW is old age, or a nuclear holocaust, or a massive earthquake in California, or god getting fed up with the game.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
I like to watch Blizzard because they can actually keep their mouths shut in the early stages of development, which makes it interesting to guess what they're up to.
Blizzard has confirmed that they have three projects currently in the works. I'm 99% sure that one of them was started a few years back while Blizzard North was still around, and I'm guessing that game is in or nearing alpha. I believe the second one is a console game, and I have no idea about the third.
They've started the first phase of the typical Blizzard media blitz surrounding a game announcement, which is hints dropped to the press. So far, they've been pretty vague, but I'm 90% sure that we'll see a concrete announcement of their next title within the next six months. Will it be Diablo? I highly doubt it.
Here's a bit of history. Blizzard North is the studio that made Diablo and Diablo 2. They were more of an independent studio than a simple division, though they shared many resources with Blizzard proper. In 2003, many high profile Blizzard North employees jumped ship, leaving to form two new studios. Blizzard North puttered along for a while, but it was eventually disbanded with the remaining employees absorbed into Blizzard proper.
Castaway Entertainment is the less well-known of the two resulting companies. All I can tell you is that EA has exclusive publishing rights to their game. The other studio, Flagship, is more well-known. Hellgate: London is their baby.
Here's why I think Diablo is not coming:
When Blizzard North lost most of its employees, two projects were underway by the studio. One of them was cancelled. I'm guessing the cancelled project was the next iteration of the Diablo series. I'd go a step further and say that those who left, the key members, did so because they didn't like the finer points of what they were being asked to make.
Flagship (and the famous Bill Roper) immediately set to producing a 3D technomagic reboot of the Diablo franchise based in London. Hellgate: London was born. I'm guessing that Castaway is making a game with some Diablo-like elements, though I imagine it's more of a traditional RPG than anything else.
Not only that, I'm also very sure that Blizzard knew what direction Castaway and Flagship were going from the earliest stages of those studios' life. I believe that's why Blizzard cancelled the primary Blizzard North project (Diablo 3?) and eventually closed the studio.
Not only had they lost the studio's best talent, but they would end up directly competing with that talent if they pushed the old projects. In other words, their current Diablo 3 project, when finished without the key Blizzard North members, would have been inferior to the rival offerings from Flagship and Castaway.
That's classic Blizzard strategy. While most major publishers are fine with killing cult franchises by releasing crappy additions, Blizzard guards its IP's jealously. They would rather cancel a game attached to one of their major franchises than release something that would even rate 7/10 among the major game sites.
That said, some rumors have been flying around the net regarding a new Diablo game. If it comes, though, I guarantee that it won't be a traditional hack-and-slash. If it's that kind of Diablo 3 that you want, look to Hellgate: London. From what I've seen, it's shaping up to be pretty awesome. If you want more traditional Diablo action, try Titan's Quest or Silverfall.
It would be nice to head back into the frey alongside demons and angels once again, the original Diablo game was one of the most atmospheric games I have ever played. Although a Starcraft Universe, or Worlds of Starcraft would make a decent MMO there is talk about a Fallout MMO (posibly the greatest RPG of all time) and a Warhammer 40k mmo coming in the next couple of years.
Maybe they will make a Lost Vikings mmorpg?
I remember a while ago Blizzard was hiring for both projects (Diablo 3, and Starcraft 2) it was basically only artists or whatever but they were hiring.
As for Diablo 3, I'd rather they didn't make it an mmo and stuck with the same mechanics of the first 2 games in the series. What I'd like to see is male and female of each class with customizable looks, but the same graphic style as Diablo 2 just higher rez. I'd also like to see a longer game with more to do.
I just don't see a reason to turn Diablo into a P2P game since Diablo 2 is almost an MMO only free and limited to 8 players together at a time.