First of all the purpose of these community articales are to bring to light hot topics on the forums, these are not news articales.
With that being said when the posts mentions children I would guess they aren't talking about 16+ year olds who have a firm establishment of right and wrong, they are talking about the 8-14 year olds that are playing some of these games. (Yes they are out there, and I blame the parents not the companies.)
As for my own thoughts on the subject I think it sparks nationalism more then it sparks racism. You don't often hear someone on a side trash talking night elves or orcs specificly, but its often "All hoard are corpse campers." or "All allience members suck at BGs"
Looking at games other then WoW we can see in some games like guild wars the nationalism moves from fictional nations to real nations as some teams and compitions are based on what real world nation you are from.
Games are not racist. Games are make believe. The characters that inhabit the server are nothing more than 0's and 1's, therefore they can not be the object of racism, they can not be murdered, assaulted, raped, etc. Only real people can be racist and be the victims of racism.
What the OP is doing is projecting his real world view onto an imaginary one and trying to make real world type comparisons between the two.
Following that line or reasoning....
I suppose the Jewish Holocaust could be compared to the undead genocide perpretrated by the Alliance eh...or a group of orcs ganking a night elf could be considered a hate crime similar to the african american in texas who was kidnapped and dragged behind his car until his body fell to pieces.
Games are not racist. Games are make believe. The characters that inhabit the server are nothing more than 0's and 1's, therefore they can not be the object of racism, they can not be murdered, assaulted, raped, etc. Only real people can be racist and be the victims of racism. Following that line or reasoning.... I suppose the Jewish Holocaust could be compared to the undead genocide perpretrated by the Alliance eh...or a group of orcs ganking a night elf could be considered a hate crime similar to the african american in texas who was kidnapped and dragged behind his car until his body fell to pieces. Personally, I find the comparisons distasteful.
Games can definitely be racist. Saying that a game is just 0s and 1s is like saying a movie is just blobs of color.
Actually, yes - the Alliance genocide of the Undead could be compared to the holocaust (there are similarities but also differences).
A group of Orcs attacking a Night Elf is not a hate crime though as they are at war with each other.
Personally, I think that WoW dividing sides by race could be considered racist - although I would say that it is more just overly simplistic (like alot of WoW).
Then again, I enjoy intellectual debates on all sorts of topics.
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Games are not racist. Games are make believe. The characters that inhabit the server are nothing more than 0's and 1's, therefore they can not be the object of racism, they can not be murdered, assaulted, raped, etc. Only real people can be racist and be the victims of racism. Following that line or reasoning.... I suppose the Jewish Holocaust could be compared to the undead genocide perpretrated by the Alliance eh...or a group of orcs ganking a night elf could be considered a hate crime similar to the african american in texas who was kidnapped and dragged behind his car until his body fell to pieces. Personally, I find the comparisons distasteful.
Games can definitely be racist. Saying that a game is just 0s and 1s is like saying a movie is just blobs of color.
Actually, yes - the Alliance genocide of the Undead could be compared to the holocaust (there are similarities but also differences).
A group of Orcs attacking a Night Elf is not a hate crime though as they are at war with each other.
Personally, I think that WoW dividing sides by race could be considered racist - although I would say that it is more just overly simplistic (like alot of WoW).
Then again, I enjoy intellectual debates on all sorts of topics.
Games can not be racist, only people can be racist.
Orcs are not people, therefore collectively they can not constitute a race. Therefore you can not be racist against an orc.
An undead can not die, nor can they be killed because there were never alive. An undead is a type of character in a video game.
So you basically have on the one hand a computer video game and on the other hand you have the Nazi Party systematically rounding up people of the Jewish people and systematically slaughtering them. On the one hand you have no one at all dying and on the other you have about 6 million people dying.
Games can definitely be racist. Saying that a game is just 0s and 1s is like saying a movie is just blobs of color.
Actually, yes - the Alliance genocide of the Undead could be compared to the holocaust (there are similarities but also differences).
A group of Orcs attacking a Night Elf is not a hate crime though as they are at war with each other.
Personally, I think that WoW dividing sides by race could be considered racist - although I would say that it is more just overly simplistic (like alot of WoW).
Then again, I enjoy intellectual debates on all sorts of topics.
Games can not be racist, only people can be racist.
Orcs are not people, therefore collectively they can not constitute a race. Therefore you can not be racist against an orc.
An undead can not die, nor can they be killed because there were never alive. An undead is a type of character in a video game.
So you basically have on the one hand a computer video game and on the other hand you have the Nazi Party systematically rounding up people of the Jewish people and systematically slaughtering them. On the one hand you have no one at all dying and on the other you have about 6 million people dying.
So, what exactly are the similarities?
I'm not quite sure how to respond to an answer that so completely misses the point of the discussion (not to mention reality).
WoW (and just about every other fantasy game) explicitly list Orcs (and Undead, etc) as races. How can you remotely argue they are not a race (at least while playing the game)?
Further, there have been reasonable arguments made that Orcs (and other fantasy races) were developed originally as fictional respresentations of real-world races (cf many college anthropology courses).
By your logic, a video game where you played an SS officer in a concentration camp exterminating prisoners would be perfectly fine and not racist.
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The only actual "evil" race in WoW are the Forsaken. The intro even says they "entered into an alliance of convenience" with the horde. If you look at some of the quests they not only want to rid Azeroth of the Scourge, but of ALL living beings. There have been several quests that mention the Dark Lady working on a New Plague that would harm the Scourge and living beings, but not Forsaken. Plus there is an Undercity quest to cure a sick Tauren who drank from pools in Azshara, well the "cure" kills her and the quest npc shows no remose over that "cure".
As far as racism in general it's not a developer made issue. The game is set up as Alliance VS Horde, period. Neither side is good or evil, but the players make of it what they will. I've seen people that treat the "enemy" as just opposing players in a competition and others who attack, say gnomes, exclusively because they "hate gnomes".
The only actual "evil" race in WoW are the Forsaken. The intro even says they "entered into an alliance of convenience" with the horde. If you look at some of the quests they not only want to rid Azeroth of the Scourge, but of ALL living beings. There have been several quests that mention the Dark Lady working on a New Plague that would harm the Scourge and living beings, but not Forsaken. Plus there is an Undercity quest to cure a sick Tauren who drank from pools in Azshara, well the "cure" kills her and the quest npc shows no remose over that "cure". As far as racism in general it's not a developer made issue. The game is set up as Alliance VS Horde, period. Neither side is good or evil, but the players make of it what they will. I've seen people that treat the "enemy" as just opposing players in a competition and others who attack, say gnomes, exclusively because they "hate gnomes". My 2 coppers worth....
They hate GNOMES YES!!!!!
Dont you get it it people they playing a game in fantasy world hate a race called gnomes notthing more nothing less just having fun there is no racist like in real world behind it its just a game.
And when they stop playing i doub any kid or growup have learn to be more racist then before they start playing wow.
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I say...who cares !!! People can find racisim in anything. In fact..there are few such prominant black leaders whose entire job depends on finding racisim. Without racisim some folks wouldn't have a job anymore..they do in fact find and create racisim to protect their livelyhood...but thats a topic for an entirely different forum... I say...good grief...who cares! It's a video game for starters. Sure it's racism...lets not let the pussification of America and it's twisted and hipicritical ( sp?) politics influence the fact that orcs hate humans and humans hate orcs...just because. That is how it is suppose to be. Leave it alone. I say...if someone can't handle it ..then they just need to dig a hole somewhere and stay there...or at least stop playing fantasy mmo's. Thats what I say
and I'll say it again..anytime
Never mind you are from Texas. Not worth it.
LOL..SEE !! Is that any different ? What does being from Texas have to do with anything? YOU sir...are part of the PROBLEM. That is discrimination based on where someone lives. Automaticly devaluing their point of view based not on fact or opinion even but on on WHERE THEY LIVE ! Is that any different than basing it on what color their skin is? or what kind of clothes they choose to wear? You sir ..in one simple sentence...not even a complete sentence at that....exposed your extreme ignorance.
I would have ya know...I am not FROM Texas...just happen to live in Texas..BUT...I would be proud to be from Texas anyday !
In fact...just to prove how ignorant you are.
I was born in Minnisota...raised in California...Lived for extended periods of time in New York City , NY...Boston, MA, Danbury CT, and various places in Florida...while I was in the Navy defending your right to be a dumbass. DOH !
And now currently reside in the wonderful state of Texas where I will likely remain till my dying day.
I think that some of the replies here are missing the point. First off, Laura Genender's article was more like an editorial, simply commenting and compiling on a topic that was orignally brought up by another person. In her article she takes no real stand point on the issue and presents quotes from the original topic that offer opinions of both sides of the argument.
Second, the posters bringing up that its just a video game are right, but they may have missed the line "teaching to children". Anyone that has played this game or know anything of its demographics realize there is a large chunk of fan base that fall into the "still impressionable" category age-wise. Violence in video games is a whole different subject that is really invalid to this topic. Besides, racism is more of an underlying issue in that it isn't quite apparent until further time in the game is invested and interaction with other players of the same faction is made. You get kill quests right off the bat in WoW, so again I say it is a seperate issue, which is honestly just as stupid, if not more, than this one. I merely wanted to point out the invalid arguments that some have made.
I'm assuming this refers to real life racism vs. real life races rather than actually having rl feelings of hatred towards orcs (Which I do, they stink and take jobs away from more qualified Gnomes. Green bastards!).
No, its a game. It doesn't "teach" anything. It is a harmless form of entertainment. If a child is impressionable enough to somehow transfer in-game racial conflict between imaginary races (with the exception of humans of course) into real life they are probably way to young (or stupid) to be playing MMOs anyway and their parents should cut their internet connection, strap a padded helmet on them and give 'em some Legos to play with for a few more years.
However I will say that I would prefer to see conflict based on more than race, not because there is anything wrong with it, but because I prefer a more open environment for my digital slaughter.
Great observation, and as Borat would say... "NOT" .
Come on whens this unenlighted PC thinkign gonna end. The thoughts brought up are not logical concidering most players of the game (previously more than now) rolled both sides to try out the limited class/races or the different locations. This argument is similar to wantign to ban seasme street becuase oscar the groutch is a bum and it portrays bums as mean. I mean come on yeah you can make the arguement and thought a corrupted process make ity seem logical , however, it is not.
For oen there is little great hate between the sides of WOW why? Becuase there are no real objectives in the entire game. look at games like DAOC that game has a better chance to promote raceism yet it rather did becuase everyoen played differnt sides (becuase they offerd a different game , unlike WOW ) ( http://www.koboldin.de/demhibbies.swf/ ) Yet, still you have to realize the fact that this is a game if a child or adult has problems understanding this concept then their problem is not a game but more along the lines of mental issues.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Games are not racist. Games are make believe. The characters that inhabit the server are nothing more than 0's and 1's, therefore they can not be the object of racism, they can not be murdered, assaulted, raped, etc. Only real people can be racist and be the victims of racism. Following that line or reasoning.... I suppose the Jewish Holocaust could be compared to the undead genocide perpretrated by the Alliance eh...or a group of orcs ganking a night elf could be considered a hate crime similar to the african american in texas who was kidnapped and dragged behind his car until his body fell to pieces. Personally, I find the comparisons distasteful.
Games can definitely be racist. Saying that a game is just 0s and 1s is like saying a movie is just blobs of color.
Actually, yes - the Alliance genocide of the Undead could be compared to the holocaust (there are similarities but also differences).
A group of Orcs attacking a Night Elf is not a hate crime though as they are at war with each other.
Personally, I think that WoW dividing sides by race could be considered racist - although I would say that it is more just overly simplistic (like alot of WoW).
Then again, I enjoy intellectual debates on all sorts of topics.
This is non correlative discussion, not a debate you have to have a logical point to debate. I could compare using Raid on ants to the holocaust , does that make it a valid comparison ? NO ..
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
for example, the elves and tauren are a very similar culture, and the dwarves and orcs are a very similar culture.
the former stand for conservationism, serentity, and meditation (the ends dont justify the means)
the latter stand for strength and deforestation (the ends justify the means)
my point is, these alliances exist out of fear and insanity, even races with similar values like the aforementioned ones are killing each other despite their similarities.
it's just like the real world. when it comes down to it, humans really do all have similar values. we're all doing the same thing, breeding and raising children and dying.
despite this, we focus only on our differences, and choose to kill each other.
is wow racist? no humans are stupid and racist, and wow's popularity stems from people stupidly being for the horde/alliance. it's like post ww2 ussr vs usa.
we all have a desire to 'know who we are'. nationalism is something that allieves our insecurities, and the logic behind the horde/alliance conflict is no different.
why do tauren and elves kill each other? it's antithetical to their ideologies, which represents the overwhelming hypocrisy that engulfs human existence today.
alot of people miss the cold war days, when the enemy was obvious.
I carry the blue flag, you carry the red flag, thus you deserve to die. it's an accurate representation of how humans think.
the person you are supposed to kill is obvious, and that's comforting to us, having a common enemy.
But the reason you're killing in the first place, is pretty vague.
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
if this argument at all refers to videogames having a negative impact on society, i'd like to comment upon the fact that when america wiped out the native americans, they were busy in their churches praying to god for peace and serentity.
none of those people had videogames
i would surmise that gamers are some of the least violent people in the world as well.
if you want to talk injustice, maybe we should start with the results of the usa criminalizing drug use, and the inevitable rise of the drug cartels there after, making criminal behavior the only survivable way of life in many parts of the world.
now half the countries in south america are owned and ruled by drug lords who would have no dilemma murdering anyone, and no punishment for doing so.
you can thank the DEA and american politics for that one.
just more proof that our society creates criminals.
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
Games are not racist. Games are make believe. The characters that inhabit the server are nothing more than 0's and 1's, therefore they can not be the object of racism, they can not be murdered, assaulted, raped, etc. Only real people can be racist and be the victims of racism. Following that line or reasoning.... I suppose the Jewish Holocaust could be compared to the undead genocide perpretrated by the Alliance eh...or a group of orcs ganking a night elf could be considered a hate crime similar to the african american in texas who was kidnapped and dragged behind his car until his body fell to pieces. Personally, I find the comparisons distasteful.
Games can definitely be racist. Saying that a game is just 0s and 1s is like saying a movie is just blobs of color.
Actually, yes - the Alliance genocide of the Undead could be compared to the holocaust (there are similarities but also differences).
A group of Orcs attacking a Night Elf is not a hate crime though as they are at war with each other.
Personally, I think that WoW dividing sides by race could be considered racist - although I would say that it is more just overly simplistic (like alot of WoW).
Then again, I enjoy intellectual debates on all sorts of topics.
This is non correlative discussion, not a debate you have to have a logical point to debate. I could compare using Raid on ants to the holocaust , does that make it a valid comparison ? NO ..
i would just like to ask, what makes an ants life more valuable than a humans? they have their own society, their systems of government.
it would be fair to say that an unmonitored and undiscovered ant hill in africa is equally valuable to the globalist human society that we have created.
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
Yes WoW incourages racism in WoW. Does it encourage it in real life? Not more than already exists, humans are like that.
Heres a weird situation. I was a gnome mage in Stormwind. I was doing that quest near the library when this dwarf stops me and starts abusing my character because i was "a weak ugly gnome". "No one likes gnomes" Alliance ??
The choice always lies with the person pressing the buttons on they keyboard. WoW is certainly not going instill recist traits into players for the simple reason none of the races ingame can be associated with any race or culture outside of the game. As was said in the very first page of posts, these games have an entire opposite effect as people from all races and cultures play together as friends.
I would honestly be suprised if anyone on these boards could name me a better medium for breaking down international barriers than an MMORPG. I play WoW in Europe, and have played many other games on European, and North American servers, the result is I now have friends from all over Europe, North America, and even the occasional friend from Asia. There's nothing else I know of that can bring people from around the world together in one place, with them all sharing a common ground and intrest.
Shouldn't the real topic of this discussion not be whether playing an orc or an elf causes racism, but rather the very real presence of racist clans/individuals in MMORPGS. Personally, I find one of my favorite games - Guild Wars - doesn't do enough to crack down on racist asshats. I'm tired of seeing yet another Hitler's l33t Youth clan recruiting (we have team speak, guild hall, and gas chambers!) or some 14-year-old who thinks it's funny to spam "WTB black slaves" in trade chat.
Things might be better in WOW but I still see a lot of subtle racism - ie, my Asian American friend being teased and called a Chinese gold farmer cause he's Asian.
The issue, as I see it, isn't that MMORPG games like WoW might be CAUSING racism or encouraging racism because of their design or player creation system, but that the inclusion of "RACE" in these games is a reflection of real world attitudes and ideas regarding identity. RACE in an MMORPG is a fundamental character creation decision that often effects the characters overall abilities, who they can interact with, and so forth. Perhaps this reflects real world preoccupations with racial identity.
Is the term "RACE" really even appropriate when comparing an Orc and an Elf and a Dwarf? Aren't those more properly seperate humanoid "SPECIES"?
Then again, one could say that since Orcs and Elves are mythical creatures that we humans are choosing as a fantasy role, that all of these seemingly disparate "RACES" in fantasy games are actually just abstractions that represent different aspects of human nature and the "RACE" we choose in a fantasy setting is just a costume based on the broadly drawn concepts that go with it - i.e. Orcs are brutish and mean, Elves are wise and graceful or whatever.
At any rate, "RACE" on planet Earth is a social construct based on minor cosmetic differences between human beings (like skin color). There are no significant biological differences between different "races" of human beings. It is basically a superstition of sorts that has historically been exploited politically to justify the oppression (or enslavement or even genocide) of groups of people who are singled out according to the conveniently obvious but totally meaningless fact that they have a different color of skin etcetera.
Wow is not about racism, it's about politics. It's fairly simple really, you just need to understand the storyline of the game. Each faction has their reason for hating the other. Some of it is pretty basic, like "X wants to take over the world and Y won't let them." Or "The undead hate the living for still being alive, and the living hate the undead for they are seen as an abomination of life." And no, I don't mean the race of undead in WoW ...just undead things in general. Pick a game, this is in there somewhere.
For a multitude of reasons, the 4 races of the Horde see it as beneficial to ally with each other, as do the races of the Alliance. Their politics and goals match, and at the same time make the two factions bitter enemies.
Stop trying to bring race into everything and enjoy the game.
I couldn't agree more, there shouldn't be Horde and Alliance. There should be Team 1 and Team A (so nobody can be perceived as being 'second'). All Avatars should look alike, with a floating '1' or 'A' above their head to designate which side they are on... Also all weapons must look alike and cannot contain any color. Avatars likewise should be featureless and a neutral grey in color. Players should not be allowed to choose a name for their character, as a name may cause another player to 'feel' or 'perceive' him/herself inferior.. (i.e. 'pwnunub').
Lastly, for fear that WoW goals may be to hard to obtain, and shatter the delicate self esteem of our children, upon finishing all raids it should rain 'good job' epics, whether or not group wiped.
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What is scary, some ppl out there may think these are valid suggestions. Unfortunately I think the player that brought this up, is a IRL friend of mine. If so, I will smack him in the head when I see him after work!
Comments
First of all the purpose of these community articales are to bring to light hot topics on the forums, these are not news articales.
With that being said when the posts mentions children I would guess they aren't talking about 16+ year olds who have a firm establishment of right and wrong, they are talking about the 8-14 year olds that are playing some of these games. (Yes they are out there, and I blame the parents not the companies.)
As for my own thoughts on the subject I think it sparks nationalism more then it sparks racism. You don't often hear someone on a side trash talking night elves or orcs specificly, but its often "All hoard are corpse campers." or "All allience members suck at BGs"
Looking at games other then WoW we can see in some games like guild wars the nationalism moves from fictional nations to real nations as some teams and compitions are based on what real world nation you are from.
This is the stupidist article.
This does it for me for this site.
Would someone please email me anoth MMO website that carries actual game information.
WHo thinks this kind of rubbush up?
I guess for the sake of discussion....
Games are not racist. Games are make believe. The characters that inhabit the server are nothing more than 0's and 1's, therefore they can not be the object of racism, they can not be murdered, assaulted, raped, etc. Only real people can be racist and be the victims of racism.
What the OP is doing is projecting his real world view onto an imaginary one and trying to make real world type comparisons between the two.
Following that line or reasoning....
I suppose the Jewish Holocaust could be compared to the undead genocide perpretrated by the Alliance eh...or a group of orcs ganking a night elf could be considered a hate crime similar to the african american in texas who was kidnapped and dragged behind his car until his body fell to pieces.
Personally, I find the comparisons distasteful.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
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CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Actually, yes - the Alliance genocide of the Undead could be compared to the holocaust (there are similarities but also differences).
A group of Orcs attacking a Night Elf is not a hate crime though as they are at war with each other.
Personally, I think that WoW dividing sides by race could be considered racist - although I would say that it is more just overly simplistic (like alot of WoW).
Then again, I enjoy intellectual debates on all sorts of topics.
Active: D&D Online (alpha,beta,&unlimited)
Retired: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Auto Assault (beta), CoH/CoV, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeon Runners, Elder Scrolls Online, Everquest, EVE, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online (beta,live), Pathfinder Online (beta), Rift (beta,live), Secret World (beta,live), Star Wars Old Republic, Vanguard (beta), Warhammer (beta,live), World of Warcraft
Actually, yes - the Alliance genocide of the Undead could be compared to the holocaust (there are similarities but also differences).
A group of Orcs attacking a Night Elf is not a hate crime though as they are at war with each other.
Personally, I think that WoW dividing sides by race could be considered racist - although I would say that it is more just overly simplistic (like alot of WoW).
Then again, I enjoy intellectual debates on all sorts of topics.
Games can not be racist, only people can be racist.
Orcs are not people, therefore collectively they can not constitute a race. Therefore you can not be racist against an orc.
An undead can not die, nor can they be killed because there were never alive. An undead is a type of character in a video game.
So you basically have on the one hand a computer video game and on the other hand you have the Nazi Party systematically rounding up people of the Jewish people and systematically slaughtering them. On the one hand you have no one at all dying and on the other you have about 6 million people dying.
So, what exactly are the similarities?
Games can not be racist, only people can be racist.
Orcs are not people, therefore collectively they can not constitute a race. Therefore you can not be racist against an orc.
An undead can not die, nor can they be killed because there were never alive. An undead is a type of character in a video game.
So you basically have on the one hand a computer video game and on the other hand you have the Nazi Party systematically rounding up people of the Jewish people and systematically slaughtering them. On the one hand you have no one at all dying and on the other you have about 6 million people dying.
So, what exactly are the similarities?
I'm not quite sure how to respond to an answer that so completely misses the point of the discussion (not to mention reality).WoW (and just about every other fantasy game) explicitly list Orcs (and Undead, etc) as races. How can you remotely argue they are not a race (at least while playing the game)?
Further, there have been reasonable arguments made that Orcs (and other fantasy races) were developed originally as fictional respresentations of real-world races (cf many college anthropology courses).
By your logic, a video game where you played an SS officer in a concentration camp exterminating prisoners would be perfectly fine and not racist.
Active: D&D Online (alpha,beta,&unlimited)
Retired: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Auto Assault (beta), CoH/CoV, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeon Runners, Elder Scrolls Online, Everquest, EVE, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online (beta,live), Pathfinder Online (beta), Rift (beta,live), Secret World (beta,live), Star Wars Old Republic, Vanguard (beta), Warhammer (beta,live), World of Warcraft
The only actual "evil" race in WoW are the Forsaken. The intro even says they "entered into an alliance of convenience" with the horde. If you look at some of the quests they not only want to rid Azeroth of the Scourge, but of ALL living beings. There have been several quests that mention the Dark Lady working on a New Plague that would harm the Scourge and living beings, but not Forsaken. Plus there is an Undercity quest to cure a sick Tauren who drank from pools in Azshara, well the "cure" kills her and the quest npc shows no remose over that "cure".
As far as racism in general it's not a developer made issue. The game is set up as Alliance VS Horde, period. Neither side is good or evil, but the players make of it what they will. I've seen people that treat the "enemy" as just opposing players in a competition and others who attack, say gnomes, exclusively because they "hate gnomes".
My 2 coppers worth....
They hate GNOMES YES!!!!!
Dont you get it it people they playing a game in fantasy world hate a race called gnomes notthing more nothing less just having fun there is no racist like in real world behind it its just a game.
And when they stop playing i doub any kid or growup have learn to be more racist then before they start playing wow.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
LOL..SEE !! Is that any different ? What does being from Texas have to do with anything? YOU sir...are part of the PROBLEM. That is discrimination based on where someone lives. Automaticly devaluing their point of view based not on fact or opinion even but on on WHERE THEY LIVE ! Is that any different than basing it on what color their skin is? or what kind of clothes they choose to wear? You sir ..in one simple sentence...not even a complete sentence at that....exposed your extreme ignorance.
I would have ya know...I am not FROM Texas...just happen to live in Texas..BUT...I would be proud to be from Texas anyday !
In fact...just to prove how ignorant you are.
I was born in Minnisota...raised in California...Lived for extended periods of time in New York City , NY...Boston, MA, Danbury CT, and various places in Florida...while I was in the Navy defending your right to be a dumbass. DOH !
And now currently reside in the wonderful state of Texas where I will likely remain till my dying day.
Second, the posters bringing up that its just a video game are right, but they may have missed the line "teaching to children". Anyone that has played this game or know anything of its demographics realize there is a large chunk of fan base that fall into the "still impressionable" category age-wise. Violence in video games is a whole different subject that is really invalid to this topic. Besides, racism is more of an underlying issue in that it isn't quite apparent until further time in the game is invested and interaction with other players of the same faction is made. You get kill quests right off the bat in WoW, so again I say it is a seperate issue, which is honestly just as stupid, if not more, than this one. I merely wanted to point out the invalid arguments that some have made.
Does WoW teach children racism?
I'm assuming this refers to real life racism vs. real life races rather than actually having rl feelings of hatred towards orcs (Which I do, they stink and take jobs away from more qualified Gnomes. Green bastards!).
No, its a game. It doesn't "teach" anything. It is a harmless form of entertainment. If a child is impressionable enough to somehow transfer in-game racial conflict between imaginary races (with the exception of humans of course) into real life they are probably way to young (or stupid) to be playing MMOs anyway and their parents should cut their internet connection, strap a padded helmet on them and give 'em some Legos to play with for a few more years.
However I will say that I would prefer to see conflict based on more than race, not because there is anything wrong with it, but because I prefer a more open environment for my digital slaughter.
Come on whens this unenlighted PC thinkign gonna end. The thoughts brought up are not logical concidering most players of the game (previously more than now) rolled both sides to try out the limited class/races or the different locations. This argument is similar to wantign to ban seasme street becuase oscar the groutch is a bum and it portrays bums as mean. I mean come on yeah you can make the arguement and thought a corrupted process make ity seem logical , however, it is not.
For oen there is little great hate between the sides of WOW why? Becuase there are no real objectives in the entire game. look at games like DAOC that game has a better chance to promote raceism yet it rather did becuase everyoen played differnt sides (becuase they offerd a different game , unlike WOW ) ( http://www.koboldin.de/demhibbies.swf/ ) Yet, still you have to realize the fact that this is a game if a child or adult has problems understanding this concept then their problem is not a game but more along the lines of mental issues.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Actually, yes - the Alliance genocide of the Undead could be compared to the holocaust (there are similarities but also differences).
A group of Orcs attacking a Night Elf is not a hate crime though as they are at war with each other.
Personally, I think that WoW dividing sides by race could be considered racist - although I would say that it is more just overly simplistic (like alot of WoW).
Then again, I enjoy intellectual debates on all sorts of topics.
This is non correlative discussion, not a debate you have to have a logical point to debate. I could compare using Raid on ants to the holocaust , does that make it a valid comparison ? NO ..
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I think wow is pretty realistic.
for example, the elves and tauren are a very similar culture, and the dwarves and orcs are a very similar culture.
the former stand for conservationism, serentity, and meditation (the ends dont justify the means)
the latter stand for strength and deforestation
(the ends justify the means)
my point is, these alliances exist out of fear and insanity, even races with similar values like the aforementioned ones are killing each other despite their similarities.
it's just like the real world. when it comes down to it, humans really do all have similar values. we're all doing the same thing, breeding and raising children and dying.
despite this, we focus only on our differences, and choose to kill each other.
is wow racist? no humans are stupid and racist, and wow's popularity stems from people stupidly being for the horde/alliance. it's like post ww2 ussr vs usa.
we all have a desire to 'know who we are'. nationalism is something that allieves our insecurities, and the logic behind the horde/alliance conflict is no different.
why do tauren and elves kill each other? it's antithetical to their ideologies, which represents the overwhelming hypocrisy that engulfs human existence today.
alot of people miss the cold war days, when the enemy was obvious.
I carry the blue flag, you carry the red flag, thus you deserve to die. it's an accurate representation of how humans think.
the person you are supposed to kill is obvious, and that's comforting to us, having a common enemy.
But the reason you're killing in the first place, is pretty vague.
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
if this argument at all refers to videogames having a negative impact on society, i'd like to comment upon the fact that when america wiped out the native americans, they were busy in their churches praying to god for peace and serentity.
none of those people had videogames
i would surmise that gamers are some of the least violent people in the world as well.
if you want to talk injustice, maybe we should start with the results of the usa criminalizing drug use, and the inevitable rise of the drug cartels there after, making criminal behavior the only survivable way of life in many parts of the world.
now half the countries in south america are owned and ruled by drug lords who would have no dilemma murdering anyone, and no punishment for doing so.
you can thank the DEA and american politics for that one.
just more proof that our society creates criminals.
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
Actually, yes - the Alliance genocide of the Undead could be compared to the holocaust (there are similarities but also differences).
A group of Orcs attacking a Night Elf is not a hate crime though as they are at war with each other.
Personally, I think that WoW dividing sides by race could be considered racist - although I would say that it is more just overly simplistic (like alot of WoW).
Then again, I enjoy intellectual debates on all sorts of topics.
This is non correlative discussion, not a debate you have to have a logical point to debate. I could compare using Raid on ants to the holocaust , does that make it a valid comparison ? NO ..
i would just like to ask, what makes an ants life more valuable than a humans? they have their own society, their systems of government.
it would be fair to say that an unmonitored and undiscovered ant hill in africa is equally valuable to the globalist human society that we have created.
--people who believe in abstinence are unsurprisingly also some of the ugliest most sexually undesired people in the world.--
Yes WoW incourages racism in WoW. Does it encourage it in real life? Not more than already exists, humans are like that.
Heres a weird situation. I was a gnome mage in Stormwind. I was doing that quest near the library when this dwarf stops me and starts abusing my character because i was "a weak ugly gnome". "No one likes gnomes" Alliance ??
I would honestly be suprised if anyone on these boards could name me a better medium for breaking down international barriers than an MMORPG. I play WoW in Europe, and have played many other games on European, and North American servers, the result is I now have friends from all over Europe, North America, and even the occasional friend from Asia. There's nothing else I know of that can bring people from around the world together in one place, with them all sharing a common ground and intrest.
Shouldn't the real topic of this discussion not be whether playing an orc or an elf causes racism, but rather the very real presence of racist clans/individuals in MMORPGS. Personally, I find one of my favorite games - Guild Wars - doesn't do enough to crack down on racist asshats. I'm tired of seeing yet another Hitler's l33t Youth clan recruiting (we have team speak, guild hall, and gas chambers!) or some 14-year-old who thinks it's funny to spam "WTB black slaves" in trade chat.
Things might be better in WOW but I still see a lot of subtle racism - ie, my Asian American friend being teased and called a Chinese gold farmer cause he's Asian.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Is the term "RACE" really even appropriate when comparing an Orc and an Elf and a Dwarf? Aren't those more properly seperate humanoid "SPECIES"?
Then again, one could say that since Orcs and Elves are mythical creatures that we humans are choosing as a fantasy role, that all of these seemingly disparate "RACES" in fantasy games are actually just abstractions that represent different aspects of human nature and the "RACE" we choose in a fantasy setting is just a costume based on the broadly drawn concepts that go with it - i.e. Orcs are brutish and mean, Elves are wise and graceful or whatever.
At any rate, "RACE" on planet Earth is a social construct based on minor cosmetic differences between human beings (like skin color). There are no significant biological differences between different "races" of human beings. It is basically a superstition of sorts that has historically been exploited politically to justify the oppression (or enslavement or even genocide) of groups of people who are singled out according to the conveniently obvious but totally meaningless fact that they have a different color of skin etcetera.
For a multitude of reasons, the 4 races of the Horde see it as beneficial to ally with each other, as do the races of the Alliance. Their politics and goals match, and at the same time make the two factions bitter enemies.
Stop trying to bring race into everything and enjoy the game.
Lastly, for fear that WoW goals may be to hard to obtain, and shatter the delicate self esteem of our children, upon finishing all raids it should rain 'good job' epics, whether or not group wiped.
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What is scary, some ppl out there may think these are valid suggestions. Unfortunately I think the player that brought this up, is a IRL friend of mine. If so, I will smack him in the head when I see him after work!