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It's not about freedom of speech
LJones
Member Posts: 7
in EVE Online
There's no freedom of speech on a corporate forum, but still CCP is making yet another huge mistake in their treatment of their customers by banning all discussions about their developers' cheating. I don't know if they will learn and regain the trust of their players, but it seems like the company is going down ...
For my part, I have decided not to pay another buck for my accounts, I will cancel the credit card payment and pay with ISK (in-game currency) as long as I can afford it.
It's not like their customer service and game performance has been so extraordinarily good that it's easy to forgive them such mistreatment.
For my part, I have decided not to pay another buck for my accounts, I will cancel the credit card payment and pay with ISK (in-game currency) as long as I can afford it.
It's not like their customer service and game performance has been so extraordinarily good that it's easy to forgive them such mistreatment.
Comments
To me this whole matter has reminded me of just how much I love this game.
In any other game I would have cancelled my accounts immediatly, with EvE I have not.
I lowered my game score on mmorpg.com rating, to reflect my current unhappiness about CCPs conduct.
But I will continue playing EvE, the game is just too much fun for me to quit.
Yes, I am an addict
But, dont quit, just destroy BOD
set yourself a goal in eve, the destruction of BOB, now wouldnt that feel good
But, dont quit, just destroy BOD
set yourself a goal in eve, the destruction of BOB, now wouldnt that feel good
What good will it do? You will lose some of your honestly earned ISK in battles against fleets in cheat mode. Even if BoB is destroyed, the cheating Devs will still be in the game, with another alliance ticker, making sure that you never have a fair chance.
Last thing I want is 1001 threads mucking up the EO forums all on the SAME topic.
Lets just leave this now , cancel if you want its the only thing that'll make a difference.
the systematic deletion of threads, post, all asking ccp questions that ccp did not want to answer, so ccp got the t2 broom and super sweep it under a t2 rug....nothing allowed that is in any way negative about the game, ccp, its staff, or its volunteers
This is not the 19th century though, we gots us dat deer interwebs thingy!
Ideas and opinions spread at the speed of light.
Evil overlords can not silence all the data, so word gets out, and it did.
I hope to ride out my time left and see just what happens in the next few weeks. I will never resub the other accounts, but I can always buy gtc with isk and shoot noobs for giggles with my pvp account.
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
Anyone who quits the game just because of the dev misconduct is an idiot. EVE's a great game, and really, it's not worth leaving it. Or if you feel so strongly about the dev misconduct, you can do what I did and join EVE War I (BoD and allies vs The rest of EVE) to take BoD down.
While locking, deleting, or even outright banning people whom want to discuss difficult issues may be an easy solution, and might even be seen as desirable as it brushes any dirty laundry out of sight of prospective players, in the long term its counter productive. It causes resentment, people seek out other forums beyond the reach of the company and such an exodus means that posts that would have been valuable to new/other players are lost.
You need to be very careful with moderating forums, its very easy for things to turn sour because your players view the moderation as contempt for their views. Volunteer moderators are even more of a thorny issue: the type of person whom would want to moderate a forum are often the least desirable to choose for such a position, and even those whom dont have their own agenda can fall prey to the power and anonymity it offers.
the systematic deletion of threads, post, all asking ccp questions that ccp did not want to answer, so ccp got the t2 broom and super sweep it under a t2 rug....nothing allowed that is in any way negative about the game, ccp, its staff, or its volunteers
This is not the 19th century though, we gots us dat deer interwebs thingy!
Ideas and opinions spread at the speed of light.
Evil overlords can not silence all the data, so word gets out, and it did.
I hope to ride out my time left and see just what happens in the next few weeks. I will never resub the other accounts, but I can always buy gtc with isk and shoot noobs for giggles with my pvp account.
We, the victimized (even if not directly), tend to forget that how CCP decides to deal with their employees is PRIVATE AND PERSONAL. That means that they cannot allow players to slander, libel and otherwise accuse and abuse their employees on a public forum run by them. CCP, most likely by law, cannot give you any information on how they chose to deal with this particular employee or any other employee who may or may not have been involved or has knowledge of the facts. That is why the employee in question posted his own admission of his acts, and it was probably done at the behest of CCP.
If we could examine the deleted posts, they probably fall into one of two categories: (1) one of 85,000 unique threads discussing the same incident; and (2) posts making accusations and allegations against specific employees.
CCP isn't the first company to suffer from a renegade employee's actions and they won't be the last. The scope of the economic damage may be incalculable and there may be no fair way to adjust for that damage without hurting a lot of innocent players. The best way may be to release those "stolen" blueprints to the general player base and chalk the whole incident up to experience.
the systematic deletion of threads, post, all asking ccp questions that ccp did not want to answer, so ccp got the t2 broom and super sweep it under a t2 rug....nothing allowed that is in any way negative about the game, ccp, its staff, or its volunteers
This is not the 19th century though, we gots us dat deer interwebs thingy!
Ideas and opinions spread at the speed of light.
Evil overlords can not silence all the data, so word gets out, and it did.
I hope to ride out my time left and see just what happens in the next few weeks. I will never resub the other accounts, but I can always buy gtc with isk and shoot noobs for giggles with my pvp account.
We, the victimized (even if not directly), tend to forget that how CCP decides to deal with their employees is PRIVATE AND PERSONAL. That means that they cannot allow players to slander, libel and otherwise accuse and abuse their employees on a public forum run by them. CCP, most likely by law, cannot give you any information on how they chose to deal with this particular employee or any other employee who may or may not have been involved or has knowledge of the facts. That is why the employee in question posted his own admission of his acts, and it was probably done at the behest of CCP.
If we could examine the deleted posts, they probably fall into one of two categories: (1) one of 85,000 unique threads discussing the same incident; and (2) posts making accusations and allegations against specific employees.
CCP isn't the first company to suffer from a renegade employee's actions and they won't be the last. The scope of the economic damage may be incalculable and there may be no fair way to adjust for that damage without hurting a lot of innocent players. The best way may be to release those "stolen" blueprints to the general player base and chalk the whole incident up to experience.
oh yes, ccp is alllllll about doing the right thing...your excuse has no merit...they fired a gm for cheating, and said so....so much for that law issue huh
The level of anger should have given the densest arse-kissing troll in the world a clue that the players were ticked off by the favoritism and lack of enforcement of their own rules on themselves or their buddies.
as you claim, many posted with the same questions, over and over and over...why, because the older ones were deleted in a cover up spree to save face in the hopes the world wouldn't find out...but it did .(t2 brooms worked overtime that day huh)
lies, cover ups, favoritism and you want new as well as older players to support ccp?
but hey, who knows, maybe ccp will reward you with a t2 bpo also...or have they already?
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
the systematic deletion of threads, post, all asking ccp questions that ccp did not want to answer, so ccp got the t2 broom and super sweep it under a t2 rug....nothing allowed that is in any way negative about the game, ccp, its staff, or its volunteers
This is not the 19th century though, we gots us dat deer interwebs thingy!
Ideas and opinions spread at the speed of light.
Evil overlords can not silence all the data, so word gets out, and it did.
I hope to ride out my time left and see just what happens in the next few weeks. I will never resub the other accounts, but I can always buy gtc with isk and shoot noobs for giggles with my pvp account.
We, the victimized (even if not directly), tend to forget that how CCP decides to deal with their employees is PRIVATE AND PERSONAL. That means that they cannot allow players to slander, libel and otherwise accuse and abuse their employees on a public forum run by them. CCP, most likely by law, cannot give you any information on how they chose to deal with this particular employee or any other employee who may or may not have been involved or has knowledge of the facts. That is why the employee in question posted his own admission of his acts, and it was probably done at the behest of CCP.
If we could examine the deleted posts, they probably fall into one of two categories: (1) one of 85,000 unique threads discussing the same incident; and (2) posts making accusations and allegations against specific employees.
CCP isn't the first company to suffer from a renegade employee's actions and they won't be the last. The scope of the economic damage may be incalculable and there may be no fair way to adjust for that damage without hurting a lot of innocent players. The best way may be to release those "stolen" blueprints to the general player base and chalk the whole incident up to experience.
oh yes, ccp is alllllll about doing the right thing...your excuse has no merit...they fired a gm for cheating, and said so....so much for that law issue huh
The level of anger should have given the densest arse-kissing troll in the world a clue that the players were ticked off by the favoritism and lack of enforcement of their own rules on themselves or their buddies.
as you claim, many posted with the same questions, over and over and over...why, because the older ones were deleted in a cover up spree to save face in the hopes the world wouldn't find out...but it did .(t2 brooms worked overtime that day huh)
lies, cover ups, favoritism and you want new as well as older players to support ccp?
but hey, who knows, maybe ccp will reward you with a t2 bpo also...or have they already?
Ahh of course all of those who disagree with you are in the pocket of the Devs. It's so clear, I suppose you also take Alex Jones as fact?
I'm sorry that was a low blow, and I shouldn't have said it, given the nature of your posts I feel it may be fair though. I will point out that nobody has any knowledge of what the employee's punishment was.
I've also never seen any concrete evidence of BOB cheating, I tend to think the phrase "You need to be good to be lucky" applies here. I've seen lot's of people saying that they cheat because "OMG I screwed up my agression timer = HAX!!!" or "OMG they logged in B4 me = HAX!!!"
IMO CCP's lapse's were as follows. Not destroying the BPO's right away, and telling the community that the employee wasn't fired. They should've said that the employee has been punished accordingly, and the BPO's should've been trashed.
Also a GM is different than a DEV. I would guess there are far more people who can be GM's than people who can step right in to this person's role; that's just a guess on my part.
In game it would appear that the problem is fixed. You sir however will not be satisfied unless a person's livelihood is destroyed, which is what we are talking about. Does s/he deserve to be terminated... most likely but CCP for whatever reason chose not too. Firing someone for something 6 months ago that you decided not to fire them for at the time too me could be grounds for a lawsuit.
This is all just baseless speculation on my part though.
the systematic deletion of threads, post, all asking ccp questions that ccp did not want to answer, so ccp got the t2 broom and super sweep it under a t2 rug....nothing allowed that is in any way negative about the game, ccp, its staff, or its volunteers
This is not the 19th century though, we gots us dat deer interwebs thingy!
Ideas and opinions spread at the speed of light.
Evil overlords can not silence all the data, so word gets out, and it did.
I hope to ride out my time left and see just what happens in the next few weeks. I will never resub the other accounts, but I can always buy gtc with isk and shoot noobs for giggles with my pvp account.
We, the victimized (even if not directly), tend to forget that how CCP decides to deal with their employees is PRIVATE AND PERSONAL. That means that they cannot allow players to slander, libel and otherwise accuse and abuse their employees on a public forum run by them. CCP, most likely by law, cannot give you any information on how they chose to deal with this particular employee or any other employee who may or may not have been involved or has knowledge of the facts. That is why the employee in question posted his own admission of his acts, and it was probably done at the behest of CCP.
If we could examine the deleted posts, they probably fall into one of two categories: (1) one of 85,000 unique threads discussing the same incident; and (2) posts making accusations and allegations against specific employees.
CCP isn't the first company to suffer from a renegade employee's actions and they won't be the last. The scope of the economic damage may be incalculable and there may be no fair way to adjust for that damage without hurting a lot of innocent players. The best way may be to release those "stolen" blueprints to the general player base and chalk the whole incident up to experience.
oh yes, ccp is alllllll about doing the right thing...your excuse has no merit...they fired a gm for cheating, and said so....so much for that law issue huh
The level of anger should have given the densest arse-kissing troll in the world a clue that the players were ticked off by the favoritism and lack of enforcement of their own rules on themselves or their buddies.
as you claim, many posted with the same questions, over and over and over...why, because the older ones were deleted in a cover up spree to save face in the hopes the world wouldn't find out...but it did .(t2 brooms worked overtime that day huh)
lies, cover ups, favoritism and you want new as well as older players to support ccp?
but hey, who knows, maybe ccp will reward you with a t2 bpo also...or have they already?
Ahh of course all of those who disagree with you are in the pocket of the Devs. It's so clear, I suppose you also take Alex Jones as fact?
I'm sorry that was a low blow, and I shouldn't have said it, given the nature of your posts I feel it may be fair though. I will point out that nobody has any knowledge of what the employee's punishment was.
I've also never seen any concrete evidence of BOB cheating, I tend to think the phrase "You need to be good to be lucky" applies here. I've seen lot's of people saying that they cheat because "OMG I screwed up my agression timer = HAX!!!" or "OMG they logged in B4 me = HAX!!!"
IMO CCP's lapse's were as follows. Not destroying the BPO's right away, and telling the community that the employee wasn't fired. They should've said that the employee has been punished accordingly, and the BPO's should've been trashed.
Also a GM is different than a DEV. I would guess there are far more people who can be GM's than people who can step right in to this person's role; that's just a guess on my part.
In game it would appear that the problem is fixed. You sir however will not be satisfied unless a person's livelihood is destroyed, which is what we are talking about. Does s/he deserve to be terminated... most likely but CCP for whatever reason chose not too. Firing someone for something 6 months ago that you decided not to fire them for at the time too me could be grounds for a lawsuit.
This is all just baseless speculation on my part though.
you are sooo right, your opinion is based on speculation and ignorenace.
(pst, some had spies in BoB and knew of this when it happened, and know the dev(s) did far more and gave a lot more then was disclosed...but to leak what and who would expose that spy...ccp knows how much was done, but are afraid to say now)
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
1. Sticky one thread as the official discussion thread
2. Delete all the other threads to keep the board clean for other topics
3. If the sticky degenerates into a Flame and troll thread Lock the sticky
4. Create a new clean sticky stating to keep the post constructive and on topic.
5. if this sticky also degenerates, lock it.
6. Add thread topic to the permant list of lock on sight.
Now CCP followed this very reasonable policy with regards to the current dev issues. They even extended it to include 4 or 5 official posts. all of them ended up in massive flame wars, trolling, wild accusations, and about every other form of unconstructive post. I know you would be happy to have every single EVE-O forum board covered with individual posts going all over the place, but the vast majority of people would like to actually talk about other things on that board. I am included in that vast majority and I do not want to dig through 17 pages of threads on the same topic just so that I can have a discussion on a different one. Also could you imagine trying to actually get a straight answer if the devs ahve to search through and post responses in several hundred different threads. Amazingly there are other people that play EVE bawdy and they may not care one bit about Dev issues, They also have the right to use the forums to talk about things involving EVE.
CCP has had a long history of coverup and lies, and when their cheating is exposed, they put the coverup and porpaganda machine into high gear.
Now here is a point, that you provided;
If there are so many post and thread on the same subject, that has soooooo many upset, then that is a hint there is a serious problem...said problem is how ccp treats the majority of its clients, while favoring their buddies with many cheats/exploits/spawned items.
Instead of enforcing rules and regulations on themselves and their buddies, as they have to all others outside their clique, ccp simple breaks out the t2 broom and hopes to sweep it all under a rug.
Many people do not like to support a company that lies/cheats/F's their customers just because it is a minority that feel the effects of their misdeeds...it is a matter of morality and principal. You either assist by enabling them, or you take the moral high ground and do not. I choose to stand the moral high ground, as many others have. If you wish to be a sheep, and follow the sheppard to the slaughter, then by all means do so, but do not dismiss what ccp has done to upset those that still have morals.
Thank you.
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
As you kindly avoided yes there where alot of threads, on view of the general discussion forums I saw every single non stickied post being started by the same person on the same damn topic. This went on over 7 pages with very few actuall posters besides a core few. It would be interesting to even look at the negative posts on this forums and see for the long post just how many actual posters there are. saying that a 167 page thread proves the enitre community is upset may not be that valid of a arguement if tis the same 10 people hashing it out for 157 of those pages. Facts can be interepeted in many ways, they can be turned, twisted, manipulated and overall used to blatenly lie if your half good at using them.
I spent time reading some of those threads and thank god they were deleted. They went on from CCP gave BoB all of its titans to free to every T2 BPO was given out to DEV player characters. Very few of them had any resemblance of facts or evidence, so deleting them was far from uncalled for though you will never hear that from the people using that as an arguement. the core threads usually ended up with people flaming each other telling them to either stop giving CCP a blow job or to go get thinker tinfoil hat. Again no loss to the community for them getting locked. Alot of information depends on how deep you look into the information, Saying that CCP locked 450 threads on the EVE-O forums means nothing if 449 of them were spam from a Male enlargement ad-bot. The thing that should discourage you the most is the lack of actual realistic evidence provided and the large quantity of liberal wording used.
It is my experience with CCP that I must draw on. That experience shows that every locked thread is locked for a very good reason. BUt hey we all have our own experiences and we decide what is our own moral high ground. my moral high ground just differs from your moral high ground and to big surprise I think my moral high ground is better
After your remark of threatening a reporter with a gun, you banter on about having higher morals...hah
Sorry, the rest of your opinion is worthless since you think using a gun to threaten a reporter makes you a better person then anyone else...
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
I love how you say... I know how it REALLY went down and I have proof, I'll just not say any of it. Generally when someone pulls that line out it's because if the so-called "proof" say the light of day it would be blown away like dust in the wind.
The only people who know for sure would be the following I believe. The hacker who brought it to light, any members of BOB who had knowledge that the BPO's were wrongly acquired, CCP and the dev responsible. Of those there are two parties who know everything.
If a so-called spy (and I mean a legitamate alt-spy) knew about it and didn't blow the whistle then they are just as liable as any other party to this, and really have nothing to complain about. If they're hackers then I could care less what they think.
I love how you say... I know how it REALLY went down and I have proof, I'll just not say any of it. Generally when someone pulls that line out it's because if the so-called "proof" say the light of day it would be blown away like dust in the wind.
The only people who know for sure would be the following I believe. The hacker who brought it to light, any members of BOB who had knowledge that the BPO's were wrongly acquired, CCP and the dev responsible. Of those there are two parties who know everything.
If a so-called spy (and I mean a legitamate alt-spy) knew about it and didn't blow the whistle then they are just as liable as any other party to this, and really have nothing to complain about. If they're hackers then I could care less what they think.
well, whistles were blown, i informed those I thought best to handle it, promises were made to handle it by the rules, by guess who...ccp, and later, some people found they had been lied too by those that were promising to enforce the rules....
I posted that I knew of the cheating before, same type as you dismissed it then as FUD...but look now. What I said was happening then, has been admitted to by ccp...sadly they failed to admit to all of the things they did.
doubt all you wish, but honestly how can you trust ccp, after they were exposed, yet dismiss anyone that says they had spy's in the game, and infer they are liars ...(there are spies in many places, BoB is not immune...how do you think some people knew of the cheating...)
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
After your remark of threatening a reporter with a gun, you banter on about having higher morals...hah
Sorry, the rest of your opinion is worthless since you think using a gun to threaten a reporter makes you a better person then anyone else...
When said reporter is telling the locals the patrol schedule then you'll find that alot of people in my line of work would have wanted to pull the trigger. But that is neither here nor there. Although that does prove my point that the context of facts and statements can change the way people view topics.
After your remark of threatening a reporter with a gun, you banter on about having higher morals...hah
Sorry, the rest of your opinion is worthless since you think using a gun to threaten a reporter makes you a better person then anyone else...
When said reporter is telling the locals the patrol schedule then you'll find that alot of people in my line of work would have wanted to pull the trigger. But that is neither here nor there. Although that does prove my point that the context of facts and statements can change the way people view topics. ...because it shows the type of person you are...and that reflects on your opinion. If you feel ok with what you did, then you have a low moral standard, and a lower opinion of other people, much as ccp has displayed, so it is no surprise now why you think what they did is ok.
Thank you for clearing up why you can ignore being F'd by ccp.
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...