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Industry Vanguard Reviews
Tnice
Member Posts: 563
- www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp
- http://www.driverheaven.net/gamingreviews/vanguard/
- http://videogames.yahoo.com/gamereview?cid=1991400893&tab=reviews&page=0&eid=503133
- http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=71547&page=1
- http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vanguard/news.html?sid=6160039&mode=previews&tag=previews;title;0
- http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/launchreview.asp?reviewid=760607
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFv6qIz_2go
- http://pcgames.gwn.com/reviews/gamereview.php/id/1201/p/0/title/Vanguard_Saga_of_Heroes.html
- http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/vanguard-saga-of-heroes/763951p1.html
- http://www.atomicgamer.com/article.php?id=376
- http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vanguard/review.html
- http://www.trustedreviews.com/gaming/review/2007/02/14/Vanguard-Saga-of-Heroes/p1
- http://www.gamernode.com/PC/Reviews/2186-Vanguard-Saga-of-Heroes-Review/index.html
- http://www.game-revolution.com/review/pc/vanguard www.eurogamer.net/game.php
- http://www.eurogamer.net/game.php?game_id=4316
- http://www.gamerswithjobs.com/node/30435
- http://www.warcry.com/content/reviews/vanguard
- http://pc.ign.com/articles/768/768439p1.html
- http://palgn.com.au/article.php?id=6726
- http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3157695
- http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=158416
- http://www.g4tv.com/pile_player.aspx?video_key=15536
- http://computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=158416
Comments
I can't believe the writer complained about WASD movement and it not having point and click!?! No MMO that has used P&C has done very well and has generally been ravaged for that choice. Wish was, Shadowbane was.
Sounded like to me that this was the writers first MMO if they complained about that.
Possibly one of the worst written reviews I have read this month, and the reviewer has obviously never played an MMO before. WASD has been the MMORPG standard since EQ back in the late 90s, but this person seems to think this is a new concept, even though he sites Guild Wars in the review - a game that uses the same kind of WASD and camera movement by default. He spent more time talking about the WASD and camera movement than anything else.
I'd also like to know how you "review" a game that has been out for only a couple of weeks. Oh, wait, I see, you just avoid mentioning anything about the gameplay, since you really didn't have any game time to review it.
"There's much more to the game, such as mount (sic) and player-owned properties, but it's nothing you can't learn from a press release."
Which you would be better off reading, since this review was a simple rehash of of press-release material mixed with some common knowledge information.
Agent_X7 AKA J Star
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Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
In 3rd person view, I agree. It just takes some getting used to, but once you get used it it, it can be a nice improvemnt. In 1st-person view, though, it's more debatable. You can't see around you well enough for point-and-click. And Vanguard has the best 1st-person view of any MMO I've ever played.
I'm not sure why it hasn't become standard to offer both kinds of movement, though. Let the player decide. Doesn't seem like it'd be that difficult.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
And all those games you mentioned are just so huge and popular here in the US right? Oh wait, their all Asian MMO's. American's don't seem to like P&C. And American MMO's have stayed away from it and those that tried got ravaged for the choice.
Yeah.....not sure what to say about that heh. I couldn't really bring myself to continue reading after that point.
You guys do know L2 has WASD movement, right? You need to turn it on in the options...
Anyway, I did 4 months in Vanguard beta...no comment so far, looks like its heading more or less how I expected anyway. It really is a damn shame they rushed it at the end like that.
And all those games you mentioned are just so huge and popular here in the US right? Oh wait, their all Asian MMO's. American's don't seem to like P&C. And American MMO's have stayed away from it and those that tried got ravaged for the choice.
Unforuntatly, there is a world outside America. America is not even the most important market when it comes to the full mmorpg market.Even if Lineage I and II have all those subscribers...it doesn't really matter since the game is bad, now does it? Point and Click is inferior in almost every way to being able to control with WASD. You have less control, and most point and click interfaces have terrible pathing and directional issues.
Foruntatly, your wrong and neither of those games are bad games. You don't have less controll, since EVERYWHERE you can go with WASD movement, you can go with point & click. diffrence? WASD makes you hold the key, Point & click only requires you to make one single click. Not to mention that WASD also requires you to use the mouse to turn the camera. When moving and changing the camera at the same time, both your hands are used, and the only buttons your hand can reach are the few around your left hand. Point and click on the other hand, only requires one hand to move & change the camera, so you have an entire hand free to use the entire keyboard.
After playing Quake for soo long, I really couldn't imagine using another control system than WASD. It's burned into my brain. When I'm walking down the street there's a giant "W" being pressed in my head.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
And all those games you mentioned are just so huge and popular here in the US right? Oh wait, their all Asian MMO's. American's don't seem to like P&C. And American MMO's have stayed away from it and those that tried got ravaged for the choice.
Unforuntatly, there is a world outside America. America is not even the most important market when it comes to the full mmorpg market.The US is not the largest market but I believe it is the most important. I don't think that MMOs in Asia make nearly as much per subscriber as they do in the US. (I have no proof just a feeling, lower income, lower payments)
Besides we are in the US so they have to make the game for our market. If they want P&C then it is going to be largely rejected here in the US. That's like saying since Asia is so big the games should be in Chinese and we Americans should learn Chinese. If they want our money then they are gonna have to translate it.
No different then American MMO's not doing well in Asia other than WoW. We are just completely different in what we want and like.
And all those games you mentioned are just so huge and popular here in the US right? Oh wait, their all Asian MMO's. American's don't seem to like P&C. And American MMO's have stayed away from it and those that tried got ravaged for the choice.
Unforuntatly, there is a world outside America. America is not even the most important market when it comes to the full mmorpg market.The US is not the largest market but I believe it is the most important. I don't think that MMOs in Asia make nearly as much per subscriber as they do in the US. (I have no proof just a feeling, lower income, lower payments)
Besides we are in the US so they have to make the game for our market. If they want P&C then it is going to be largely rejected here in the US. That's like saying since Asia is so big the games should be in Chinese and we Americans should learn Chinese. If they want our money then they are gonna have to translate it.
No different then American MMO's not doing well in Asia other than WoW. We are just completely different in what we want and like.
If US truly was the most important market, then US companies would be much more willing to dive in the MMORPG market then it is now. they indeed won't make as much per subsciber because of economy diffrence and the use of internet cafes. in return, pretty much every asian mmorpg has 10x the amounts of subscribers compare to western mmorpg's (besides WoW). Also, this is an international board. I for one, am NOT from the US. The diffrence here is that your looking only at the smaller american market, I'm looking at the entire mmorpg market. also, Asian point & click MMORPG's are performing quite well in the US. Lineage 2 reached 100k subscribers a while ago, and Asian MMORPG's completely dominated the low-cost mmorpg market, although this can be debated this is due the fact that western MMORPG companies completely ignored the low-cost mmorpg market, and now its too late.Due to this WASD system games like EQ2 or Vanguard have the worst chat system imho. It is not possible to communicate conveniently, at least unless you are using something like Teamspeak for voice chat
In Lineage 2 while fighting or while running somewhere my hands are free and the keyboard is only used for chatting. So whenever your press a key it writes to the chat. This is fast and convenient. (The F-n keys are used for the action bar/skills shortcuts). When you are in a difficult situation in a fight it is easy and fast to call for help on the chat.
In Vanguard everytime you want to chat you have to stop whatever you are doing at that moment. If you run you have to stop, If you fight you have to stop. While fighting this can mean death, this is unplayable for me.
When in a difficult fight and you are about to die, you have to stop what you are doing to chat, so you die. Also sometimes I am surprised by aggro mobs while the chat is active (but I don't know this), so I press my shortcuts 1112222134111 but my toon does not fight ..... arrghhhh it was typing on the chat instead of fighting, now I'm almost dead !!!! UNPLAYABLE !!!
P&C is so much better. At least, as in L2, there should be an option in the settings to chose your preference.
Ummm... WASD doesn't make you hold the key. There's this little feature called AUTO-RUN that, when combined with MOUSE-LOOK allows you to basically go anywhere you want without touching a single key, forever, just by turning your mouse... without even clicking a mouse button. Use the scroll on the mouse to pan the camera out.
The only time you need to keep your finger on a keyboard button for movement is in short spurts, and even then, every key you need to use is or can be, assigned within easy range of your selected WASD keys.
If you utilize auto-run in a point and click game, you still have to point and click to give your character a destination/direction; what a pain in the butt.
Point and click movement is especially annoying in PvP combat (i.e., Shadowbane) because it relies on the server to compute obstructions and navigation, which nearly always results in lag. WASD movement allows instantaneous movement without relying on the system to figure out what is between you and your final location, since it is not trying to figure out what your actual final location will be. Which is why it is the system most often used in FPS games that rely on speed and responsiveness in movement.
While using WASD movement, there is no need to modify the camera.... you can pan out to the camera distance range and simply move as you like. Point and click FORCES you to constantly realign the camera, even when using a camera follow feature (i.e. Shadowbane, Wish, NeverWinter Nights 2). Some games that use point and click manage this better, but at some point you will be forced to realign your camera.
Regardless of the game I play, my left hand is free to use the entire keyboard and my right only controls the mouse; I cannot imagine the setup someone would use that wouldn't allow them the same freedom, especially, as I previously pointed out, the camera and movement is easily controlled by the mouse.
As previously pointed out, Lineage II also allows you to use WASD movement; so does RF Online. So there are probably a great deal of players who utilize WASD as opposed to the less responsive point and click movement.
There may be some people out there who honestly like PnC; I am certainly not one of them and your statement that point and click is "obviously superior" is merely opinion.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
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Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
I'd like to see how these fans of Point and Click circle strafe
My sorcerer, esp solo and duo spends a lot of time running backwards/strafing/circling whilst casting spells (include snare). This playstyle is impossible with Point and Click. Point and click RPG's = simplified realtime combat.
With a point and click interface I couldn't solo 3 dot even/yellow con mobs at all, which I do regularly (currently level 19).
People who have seen my posts know that I am the last in the world to defend Vanguard... But yeah, that reviewer was extremly clueless. It cant be his actual job, probably just a site vistor that tossed something up, because it reeks of ignorance.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
In 3rd person view, I agree. It just takes some getting used to, but once you get used it it, it can be a nice improvemnt. In 1st-person view, though, it's more debatable. You can't see around you well enough for point-and-click. And Vanguard has the best 1st-person view of any MMO I've ever played.
I'm not sure why it hasn't become standard to offer both kinds of movement, though. Let the player decide. Doesn't seem like it'd be that difficult.
I absolutely hate point and click movement. If a game didn't give a choice between the two, I would not play it. WASD is the way to go.
"Freedom is just another name for nothing left to lose" - Janis Joplin
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I'm not entirely familiar with L2's combat system, but as someone mentioned before, you have autorun to use in WASD, freeing your hands to chat, and in combat, well, even with P&C movement controls you'd still have to pause from selecting your skills/spells to type text into your chat bar regardless of which control scheme the game uses.
When in a difficult fight and you are about to die, you have to stop what you are doing to chat, so you die. Also sometimes I am surprised by aggro mobs while the chat is active (but I don't know this), so I press my shortcuts 1112222134111 but my toon does not fight ..... arrghhhh it was typing on the chat instead of fighting, now I'm almost dead !!!! UNPLAYABLE !!!
If you're in a difficult fight and you are about to die, you shouldn't be trying to chat with WASD OR P&C. Instead you should be concentrating on trying to stay alive. If you get ambushed while chatting, it's usually a simple matter of hitting the ESC key before trying to fight. You sound like you're just unacustomed to WASD. These are the kinds of things people face and have no problem with every day, just because it's different than you're used to doesn't make it unplayable.
You dont put down your Nintendo controler after playing a Super Mario game, then complain about how Solid Snake doesn't jump when you press the corresponding button on your PS2 controler do you? Different games have different controls. You just have to get used to them.
I personally prefer WASD because it offers more precision in movement (albeit at a higher learning curve). Point & Click also doesnt work terribly well in games that allow your character to move vertically as well as horizontally, such as jumping, swimming, or flying. Besides, all that pointing and clicking makes my wrist hurt, obviously because I'm not used to it, though I still managed to enjoy Ragnarok Online despite this. It may be different than what you're used to, I didnt like it at first either (I was used to using the arrow keys instead of WASD) but now it's like second nature to me. You just need time to adjust.