If what I understood from the thread is right, if you farmed your rear end off to get some money to be ahead of people you would get banned just for having more gold than others?
If what I understood from the thread is right, if you farmed your rear end off to get some money to be ahead of people you would get banned just for having more gold than others?
Lame.
Well, looks like most of these folks crafted their rears off to get ahead on the money curve......
I'd have banned them too... joining a game only to craft...how weird is that?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They made an in-game announcement the other day about banning an account, but said it was because he was caught soliciting gold for sale. /shrug
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him." - Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
Way to love your community, Sigil! I was going to wait a few months for bug-squashing, then sub; no way now! Maybe they read SOE's paper on Company-based secondary market and are squashing the competition early
[That last sentence is sarcasm for those of you incapable of detecting it on your own]
The argument that gold sellers fuck up the economy is stupid. If that is the case what if someone actually grinds out day after day just to get say 500 gold every 12 hours or so but uses it for personal use and not for selling i.e. buy items etc; isn't that just the same as say someone paying 200 dollars for 500 gold someone else ground cash mobs for? then using that to buy items.
Both have exactly the same effect on the economy but only one method means the company is missing out on making extra income.... think about that for second. Both methods still result in people aquiring 500 gold and that 500 gold will still be flooding in to the economy.
So going by the logic of the witch hunter ( gold sellers should be banned ) shouldn't you also go and hunt those people who save up cash and go on big spending sprees, those crafters who put in huge efforts to make massive profits or even those people who camp mobs to get super rare items to sell for hundreds of gold or platinum? Surely you should since they have the exact same effect on the economy going by the witchhunters logic as those gold sellers and people who buy gold?.
As I see it gold sellers don't affect the economy at all, at least they shouldn't. The reason I say this is if the gaming economy has been designed properly it would mean you have extremely successful money sinks and artifical economic factors which can govern inflation so regardless how much money is in the game it is all relative to the cost of living, or your characters living should I say. The simple fact is no MMO has ever had any successful "money sinks" or economic controls to guard against inflation which means that eventually Vanguard will suffer from high inflation during its natural course of existance. All the gold farmers do and those people who focus on becoming super rich is speed up the process of reaching that point in time thats it.
So next time if your want to hunt gold farmers do it because they are breaking the terms of agreement not because they "screw up the economy" , they don't cause inflation they speed up the process at which you reach high prices etc as you would get there eventually with out their help.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
That is a pretty strange way to stop people from buying and selling gold. How you can justify suspending accounts because some people have more gold than others is beyond me.
LMAO, that is hilarious.....I feel bad for the people who got banned, talk about targeting the wrong people.
On top of it, it hasn't helped a bit, you can already buy Vanguard gold on a dozen farmer sites. I fought and hunted farmers in L2 for a long time and NCSoft threw all sorts of tactics at them, its an unwinnable fight if you game is grind / item based.
Lets see, rough launch, lots of technical issues, no forums, SOE for customer support, randomly banning people for having to much money in a game that promotes crafting, holy smokes, do they want to sink this game?
1- they do nothing. "Why are they letting this happens?!!!!111!!!!!!!"
2- They do something. "wrong, totally wrong. Mistake! Ah!!!111!!!!!"
They will adjust their strategy... if they banned someone by mistake, he will get back in.
chill guys... chill.
I'm not sure it's necessarily the whole mistake as much as the gesture.
If a guy spits in your face for no good reason, then apologizes a week later, does it really matter?
Yes. I always had/have respect for people that apologize.
What do you want em to do? It seems like no matter what is attempted, the people not playing will keep saying it's wrong. They should have investigated more if they banned someone that was a legit player. I'll give you that.
But i still think i'm right on this. no matter what they do, non players will think it's wrong.
1- they do nothing. "Why are they letting this happens?!!!!111!!!!!!!"
2- They do something. "wrong, totally wrong. Mistake! Ah!!!111!!!!!"
They will adjust their strategy... if they banned someone by mistake, he will get back in.
chill guys... chill.
I'm not sure it's necessarily the whole mistake as much as the gesture.
If a guy spits in your face for no good reason, then apologizes a week later, does it really matter?
Yes. I always had/have respect for people that apologize.
What do you want em to do? It seems like no matter what is attempted, the people not playing will keep saying it's wrong. They should have investigated more if they banned someone that was a legit player. I'll give you that.
But i still think i'm right on this. no matter what they do, non players will think it's wrong.
What I would want them to do is just face the fact that the buying and selling of gold is just part of every MMO out there. Sigil isnt going to stop it. Banning honest players accounts is a foolish move. Hell even banning the gold farmers is pointless. It isnt going to stop them or even slow them down. As long as someone wants to buy gold there will be someone selling it. Maybe they should divert whatever resources they have put in to this foolish witch hunt in to other more worth while projects.
1- they do nothing. "Why are they letting this happens?!!!!111!!!!!!!"
2- They do something. "wrong, totally wrong. Mistake! Ah!!!111!!!!!"
They will adjust their strategy... if they banned someone by mistake, he will get back in.
chill guys... chill.
I'm not sure it's necessarily the whole mistake as much as the gesture.
If a guy spits in your face for no good reason, then apologizes a week later, does it really matter?
Yes. I always had/have respect for people that apologize.
What do you want em to do? It seems like no matter what is attempted, the people not playing will keep saying it's wrong. They should have investigated more if they banned someone that was a legit player. I'll give you that.
But i still think i'm right on this. no matter what they do, non players will think it's wrong.
So if they arrest all the richest people in the United States and throw them in jail it would be ok?
Then a month later say, "ok , I guess u made your money legally, we will let you out of jail now."
If what I understood from the thread is right, if you farmed your rear end off to get some money to be ahead of people you would get banned just for having more gold than others?
Lame.
You guys are looking at a small portion of a larger picture. It's not just having gold that makes you suspicious... it's the enormous amount of transactions that have seen money go to this account. Fortunately for this person, his activities are legit and his account should be reinstated soon, with a likely apology and free time tacked on. This is what needs to happen to thoroughly battle gold sales. There's a post over at SV where someone's guild bank got the same treatment. If you have have hundereds of transactions flowing into your toon daily and a mass amount of money, of course you're going to be tagged.
Love it or not, i'm glad they're taking this stance. All i ask is that they ensure their investigations are quick and thorough and they reimburse anyone who they wrongfully suspend.
Well before i start into this thread ,i am sure many know me by now as beiong absolutely miffed by this activity ruining our games.
Now before any of you start believing anyone who cry's foul play ,let me tell you i have talked to many many cheaters and botters over my time.There response is always the same and i mean always.First off they start by lying and acting all friendly like,then after you persist on knowing exactly how they are cheating,they change there story to one of a million excuses.You wouldn't believe how many excuses i have heard all of wich show no concern for ruining the game for others,but is merely a selfish act.
Now to stay on topic here,as to players claiming anyone who can craft can make tons of gold.There is no doubt in my mind this is possible,but where the problem exists is that they still cheat to do it.Only 1 day into the games launch there was already sites offering game gold in large amounts.It wouldn't take much for SONY to check the acitivty of players with multi accounts.I am sure everything in this game like all others is kept in a game log.These players might be bringing in a steady flow of 10 silver a bag,but no way on earth can they account for a steady flow of several gold going out to low level players that do nothing to possibly have this gold.
The sheer FACT that several sites were offering gold so soon ,shows a guarantee that TONS of players were taking part in RMT activities very early on.
When i played EQ2 i saw about 30% of the crafting stations were botting.Now i havnt paid attn to that in this game,but no doubt in my mind it's going on.
Go read the year after study SONY did on there exchange servers.An astounding 1.87 million dollars was exchanged,and thats just the legal amount not including what prolly amounts to at least triple that illegally.
What makes there study even more astounding was the trace of IP's activity.It shows no wonder a north americanized game like WOW was so popular.The majority of cash flow was not through asian ip's,nope,they were through californian ip's and a flu of pennsylvania ip's.Yep fact of the matter is americans like to cheat ,and it's getting to epedemic proportions.Millions and millions of dollars says it is so.
So don't go off believing these players that cry foul,unless you truly know them in real life.Sony is NOT stupid,they wouldn't ban someone on a error.How do i know this?very easy.I have been reporting cheats for the longest time and i can tell you it's near impossible to get a player banned .I often get into a tirade because of the lack of GM responsibility shown in these games.GM's are extremely lazy ,so if one actually shows an effort to do there job,it would have to be conclusive.[ya im talking about you super DAVE of ffxi gm fame.]GM=CUE card responses=lazy=no intelligence.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
As a player I am very glad that the "do as they say "and not "say and then do nothing" when the EULA is violated. Sure there will be some innocents who fall into the trap but no system is perfect and as long as they correct these "mistagged" accounts I say good for them.
Well it's not unusual for tradeskillers to have a lot of transaction activity on their account with players and NPCs alike. Tradeskillers also tend to maintain large inventories of items and coin.
I am all for combating coin and item selling for real money, but you better have the proof when you suspend or ban an account. I would be really pissed off if my account was frozen for days right after launch and I lost valuable time trying to advance my skills ahead of the masses. An apology won't make up for that precious time.
The whole problem with the way they are handling the situation is this...
The legit players do not know the boundries. There are no guidelines lol. You apparently are just suspended with no explaination at all from the threads I have seen. Now what sort of play environment does that create? Not a happy one. One that your account could be banned for simply giving or accepting alittle to much cash from friends or guildies. Making to much money selling crafter goods? Thats insane for a game that devotes one quarter of its design to crafting.
At what point are you ok and at what point are you in trouble with the gold police???? I can guarente the professional farmers have already worked that out. Thats what they do. Thats all they do.
All they are doing is creating a hostile environment and community in a game that is already on a bumpy road.
Torak above has it right. Whatever they do, it will hurt more actual players than farmers. They farmers are smart - they know how to get around these things. It is the poor innocent schmuck that gets burned.
They probably should've just gone with SOE's Station Exchange and set the price of gold/items themselves...
Looks to me that they are abusing thier own stat pages to single people out. God forbid you actualy craft or adventure and make more than 3 copper a day.
After playing in these games for several years I can honestly say I do not believe a single friggin whine about being "unfairly banned" that I read anymore. You guys are ridiculous if you believe all these "I've been unfairly banned" stories you read. I'll take the devs word first any day. They have the most to lose from banning someone so I tend to believe they know what the hell they are doing.
They should provide notice on suspension of why it happened, and the proper appeal process to follow. Players should not be left to flounder.
But that said... aggressive efforts to stop gold selling will result in heavy handed tactics from time to time... always true in any kind of law enforcement.... but there's no court system to balance the "police" police in this situation..so you are really on your own....
The option is to not bother to enforce it, and work on designing the game to minimize the impact to the game.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They probably lack proper tools (and experience) to monitor things like money transactions at this point due to the early release.
With proper tools they might have checked things better resulting in:
a)whole guilds being suspended ("you were sending money to X who is suspected of being connected with RMT so we are suspending you until this is checked out")
b)crafters etc being exempt since the money could be accounted for by checking the crafting logs etc (shouldn't be too hard with just about 2 weeks of logs to go through anyway)
It's interesting to see how well Sigil will be able to address the RMT problem in the long run (especially after they have proper tools for it)
Comments
If what I understood from the thread is right, if you farmed your rear end off to get some money to be ahead of people you would get banned just for having more gold than others?
Lame.
Well, looks like most of these folks crafted their rears off to get ahead on the money curve......
I'd have banned them too... joining a game only to craft...how weird is that?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
They made an in-game announcement the other day about banning an account, but said it was because he was caught soliciting gold for sale. /shrug
"Death is a dignitary who when he comes announced is to be received
with formal manifestations of respect, even by those most familiar with him."
- Ambrose Gwinnett Bierce
[That last sentence is sarcasm for those of you incapable of detecting it on your own]
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
That's just me though, that's just me
Both have exactly the same effect on the economy but only one method means the company is missing out on making extra income.... think about that for second. Both methods still result in people aquiring 500 gold and that 500 gold will still be flooding in to the economy.
So going by the logic of the witch hunter ( gold sellers should be banned ) shouldn't you also go and hunt those people who save up cash and go on big spending sprees, those crafters who put in huge efforts to make massive profits or even those people who camp mobs to get super rare items to sell for hundreds of gold or platinum? Surely you should since they have the exact same effect on the economy going by the witchhunters logic as those gold sellers and people who buy gold?.
As I see it gold sellers don't affect the economy at all, at least they shouldn't. The reason I say this is if the gaming economy has been designed properly it would mean you have extremely successful money sinks and artifical economic factors which can govern inflation so regardless how much money is in the game it is all relative to the cost of living, or your characters living should I say. The simple fact is no MMO has ever had any successful "money sinks" or economic controls to guard against inflation which means that eventually Vanguard will suffer from high inflation during its natural course of existance. All the gold farmers do and those people who focus on becoming super rich is speed up the process of reaching that point in time thats it.
So next time if your want to hunt gold farmers do it because they are breaking the terms of agreement not because they "screw up the economy" , they don't cause inflation they speed up the process at which you reach high prices etc as you would get there eventually with out their help.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
forums.station.sony.com/vg/posts/list.m
2- They do something. "wrong, totally wrong. Mistake! Ah!!!111!!!!!"
They will adjust their strategy... if they banned someone by mistake, he will get back in.
chill guys... chill.
eqnext.wikia.com
If a guy spits in your face for no good reason, then apologizes a week later, does it really matter?
It'd be a cold day in hell before I went back to a game that banned me to make an example.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
LMAO, that is hilarious.....I feel bad for the people who got banned, talk about targeting the wrong people.
On top of it, it hasn't helped a bit, you can already buy Vanguard gold on a dozen farmer sites. I fought and hunted farmers in L2 for a long time and NCSoft threw all sorts of tactics at them, its an unwinnable fight if you game is grind / item based.
Lets see, rough launch, lots of technical issues, no forums, SOE for customer support, randomly banning people for having to much money in a game that promotes crafting, holy smokes, do they want to sink this game?
If a guy spits in your face for no good reason, then apologizes a week later, does it really matter?
Yes. I always had/have respect for people that apologize.
What do you want em to do? It seems like no matter what is attempted, the people not playing will keep saying it's wrong. They should have investigated more if they banned someone that was a legit player. I'll give you that.
But i still think i'm right on this. no matter what they do, non players will think it's wrong.
eqnext.wikia.com
If a guy spits in your face for no good reason, then apologizes a week later, does it really matter?
Yes. I always had/have respect for people that apologize.
What do you want em to do? It seems like no matter what is attempted, the people not playing will keep saying it's wrong. They should have investigated more if they banned someone that was a legit player. I'll give you that.
But i still think i'm right on this. no matter what they do, non players will think it's wrong.
What I would want them to do is just face the fact that the buying and selling of gold is just part of every MMO out there. Sigil isnt going to stop it. Banning honest players accounts is a foolish move. Hell even banning the gold farmers is pointless. It isnt going to stop them or even slow them down. As long as someone wants to buy gold there will be someone selling it. Maybe they should divert whatever resources they have put in to this foolish witch hunt in to other more worth while projects.
If a guy spits in your face for no good reason, then apologizes a week later, does it really matter?
Yes. I always had/have respect for people that apologize.
What do you want em to do? It seems like no matter what is attempted, the people not playing will keep saying it's wrong. They should have investigated more if they banned someone that was a legit player. I'll give you that.
But i still think i'm right on this. no matter what they do, non players will think it's wrong.
So if they arrest all the richest people in the United States and throw them in jail it would be ok?
Then a month later say, "ok , I guess u made your money legally, we will let you out of jail now."
You guys are looking at a small portion of a larger picture. It's not just having gold that makes you suspicious... it's the enormous amount of transactions that have seen money go to this account. Fortunately for this person, his activities are legit and his account should be reinstated soon, with a likely apology and free time tacked on. This is what needs to happen to thoroughly battle gold sales. There's a post over at SV where someone's guild bank got the same treatment. If you have have hundereds of transactions flowing into your toon daily and a mass amount of money, of course you're going to be tagged.
Love it or not, i'm glad they're taking this stance. All i ask is that they ensure their investigations are quick and thorough and they reimburse anyone who they wrongfully suspend.
Well before i start into this thread ,i am sure many know me by now as beiong absolutely miffed by this activity ruining our games.
Now before any of you start believing anyone who cry's foul play ,let me tell you i have talked to many many cheaters and botters over my time.There response is always the same and i mean always.First off they start by lying and acting all friendly like,then after you persist on knowing exactly how they are cheating,they change there story to one of a million excuses.You wouldn't believe how many excuses i have heard all of wich show no concern for ruining the game for others,but is merely a selfish act.
Now to stay on topic here,as to players claiming anyone who can craft can make tons of gold.There is no doubt in my mind this is possible,but where the problem exists is that they still cheat to do it.Only 1 day into the games launch there was already sites offering game gold in large amounts.It wouldn't take much for SONY to check the acitivty of players with multi accounts.I am sure everything in this game like all others is kept in a game log.These players might be bringing in a steady flow of 10 silver a bag,but no way on earth can they account for a steady flow of several gold going out to low level players that do nothing to possibly have this gold.
The sheer FACT that several sites were offering gold so soon ,shows a guarantee that TONS of players were taking part in RMT activities very early on.
When i played EQ2 i saw about 30% of the crafting stations were botting.Now i havnt paid attn to that in this game,but no doubt in my mind it's going on.
Go read the year after study SONY did on there exchange servers.An astounding 1.87 million dollars was exchanged,and thats just the legal amount not including what prolly amounts to at least triple that illegally.
What makes there study even more astounding was the trace of IP's activity.It shows no wonder a north americanized game like WOW was so popular.The majority of cash flow was not through asian ip's,nope,they were through californian ip's and a flu of pennsylvania ip's.Yep fact of the matter is americans like to cheat ,and it's getting to epedemic proportions.Millions and millions of dollars says it is so.
So don't go off believing these players that cry foul,unless you truly know them in real life.Sony is NOT stupid,they wouldn't ban someone on a error.How do i know this?very easy.I have been reporting cheats for the longest time and i can tell you it's near impossible to get a player banned .I often get into a tirade because of the lack of GM responsibility shown in these games.GM's are extremely lazy ,so if one actually shows an effort to do there job,it would have to be conclusive.[ya im talking about you super DAVE of ffxi gm fame.]GM=CUE card responses=lazy=no intelligence.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well it's not unusual for tradeskillers to have a lot of transaction activity on their account with players and NPCs alike. Tradeskillers also tend to maintain large inventories of items and coin.
I am all for combating coin and item selling for real money, but you better have the proof when you suspend or ban an account. I would be really pissed off if my account was frozen for days right after launch and I lost valuable time trying to advance my skills ahead of the masses. An apology won't make up for that precious time.
The whole problem with the way they are handling the situation is this...
The legit players do not know the boundries.
There are no guidelines lol. You apparently are just suspended with no explaination at all from the threads I have seen. Now what sort of play environment does that create? Not a happy one. One that your account could be banned for simply giving or accepting alittle to much cash from friends or guildies. Making to much money selling crafter goods? Thats insane for a game that devotes one quarter of its design to crafting. 
At what point are you ok and at what point are you in trouble with the gold police???? I can guarente the professional farmers have already worked that out. Thats what they do. Thats all they do.
All they are doing is creating a hostile environment and community in a game that is already on a bumpy road.
Torak above has it right. Whatever they do, it will hurt more actual players than farmers. They farmers are smart - they know how to get around these things. It is the poor innocent schmuck that gets burned.
They probably should've just gone with SOE's Station Exchange and set the price of gold/items themselves...
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
M
They should provide notice on suspension of why it happened, and the proper appeal process to follow. Players should not be left to flounder.
But that said... aggressive efforts to stop gold selling will result in heavy handed tactics from time to time... always true in any kind of law enforcement.... but there's no court system to balance the "police" police in this situation..so you are really on your own....
The option is to not bother to enforce it, and work on designing the game to minimize the impact to the game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
With proper tools they might have checked things better resulting in:
a)whole guilds being suspended ("you were sending money to X who is suspected of being connected with RMT so we are suspending you until this is checked out")
b)crafters etc being exempt since the money could be accounted for by checking the crafting logs etc (shouldn't be too hard with just about 2 weeks of logs to go through anyway)
It's interesting to see how well Sigil will be able to address the RMT problem in the long run (especially after they have proper tools for it)