You seem to be stuck on the idea that all the Devs are in and support BoB. There was one Dev in BoB, maybe two, and that's it. CCP have 200 employees at this time. Some of the major Devs have already admitted to either not playing, or playing as carebears, or mission runners. Kieron for instance, posted this:
"If you consider mission running carebearing, then yes. I run missions in a very small corp in COSMOS space. Never mined with my main or any alts though.
PvP? Not really for me. I want to play EVE to relax and take my mind off work, even though playing and working are so intertwined in my case. Too much work to PvP."
A vast majority of the Devs have nothing to do at all with BoB, their allies, or their enemies. Some don't even play.
You seem to be stuck on the idea that all the Devs are in and support BoB. There was one Dev in BoB, maybe two, and that's it. CCP have 200 employees at this time. Some of the major Devs have already admitted to either not playing, or playing as carebears, or mission runners. Kieron for instance, posted this:
"If you consider mission running carebearing, then yes. I run missions in a very small corp in COSMOS space. Never mined with my main or any alts though.
PvP? Not really for me. I want to play EVE to relax and take my mind off work, even though playing and working are so intertwined in my case. Too much work to PvP."
A vast majority of the Devs have nothing to do at all with BoB, their allies, or their enemies. Some don't even play.
there are/were other devs in BoB...and they are still covering up and lieing, even to their own slaves.
I wasn't to surprised, but never, never, NEVER thought they would cheat...and I was wrong, else I would have helped to blow the whistle back in the summer.
"K" did the eve playerbase a service by exposing CCP...no matter the method, he did expose them for the scum they are...
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
Anyone quitting over this please transfer all your ISK to Taram Caldar. I promise to use it wisely. I'll also let everyone know if I actually get any ISK
Thanks!
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Well you are entitled to your opinion, but the crux of the matter is not this tiny incident with the bpo's it is the general favoritism the the devs have given BOB that is completely inexcusable. How much insider information has been passed on to them?
How about bannable posts from top leaders of bob on the forums, getting erased by the mods and then denying they ever existed.
Sorry I saw one of them and can verify it occured and my brother saw another. CCP did zip about it. Now explain to me how that is not outright favoritism?
Basically, far as I am concerned, BOB's leadership is comprised of some of the biggest jerks in the game.
There is alot more to this story than a few BPO's, and while we will probably never know the extent of this mess, any fool should know when there is this much smoke, there has to be a lot of fire behind it.
This whole matter comes down to the old adage "avoid even the appearance of evil". CCP didn't avoid it, they swept it under the rug. I could care less that it was BoB, though it's not surprising, and would care equally less if the cheating dev were in D2 or LV or IRON. What I care about is that the company that I pay around $50 bucks a month to play their game has been involved in cheating and in covering up the evidence by banning all talk of it on their own forums, among other things. The information that Kugutsumen has published is fairly wide-ranging, and implicates a lot of rather unsavory things, if it's all true. This is avoiding the appearance of evil? I don't think so.
I find it hard to put my trust and my money into a corporation that isn't up-front and honest with their customers, without whom, they would be jobless. We may not hold any shareholder positions in CCP, but our opinion of the company matters just as much, especially in the public fora. I haven't canceled my account yet, but I'm seriously thinking about it, because I just don't want to spend my hard earned money or time in a game that promotes the kind of crap that Kugutsumen has brought to light.
That being said, devs DO need to play their own games. However, there need to be rules that the public are aware of, including a rule against any dev accepting any kind of leadership position in any alliance/corp. As long as CCP is able to enforce those rules and uphold them, especially against public criticism, then maybe they'll have a chance at regaining my lost trust, along with the lost trust of many other players.
**************************** Current Games: EVE Online - Co-CEO RTN [SOL] FFXI - WHM 19/BLM 13 - Valefor Server
After playing EvE since mid Beta, Im am extremely disapointed in the whole mess, and will definately be cancelling my account. How can anyone expect to EVER have a chance of playing a fair game when devs have their hands in it... Why even bother trying to pvp anymore when there is a good chance that the person you're about to fight is one of the devs buddys, and has uber equipment.. Forget it.. Im done. over 4 years wasted on this sorry excuse for a game.. oh, but it has nice graphics.. pfft..
Before you cancel please transfer all your ISK to me. I'll be sure to let everyone know that you were serious when I see the ISK show up in my wallet.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
After playing EvE since mid Beta, Im am extremely disapointed in the whole mess, and will definately be cancelling my account. How can anyone expect to EVER have a chance of playing a fair game when devs have their hands in it... Why even bother trying to pvp anymore when there is a good chance that the person you're about to fight is one of the devs buddys, and has uber equipment.. Forget it.. Im done. over 4 years wasted on this sorry excuse for a game.. oh, but it has nice graphics.. pfft..
quit and play what? nothing i guess cuase no game has the gameplay even close to eve in terms of pvp and economy. this has gotten so overblown its silly now. lol 4 yrs of wasted time ok tell me how did this one dev dealing some bpo's to a buddy effect yer gameplay . and how would it effect yer pvp? I pvp full t2 so what advantage does anyone have besides skills and with 4 yrs of time you should be uber and flying full t2 anyway. so either it's a lie or your a pathetic pvp'r anyway. And what would the chances be in running into this "dev's buddy" be anyway. the more i look at yer statement the less i believe you actually play.
I've fought against BoB for most of my EVE career -- I was in Fountain Alliance when they first showed up in Delve and kicked us out. I was in the corp whose POS they infiltrated and offlined (metagaming for the win!) when they were removing us from Fountain.
Here is some info, pro and con to the current events, from my point of view:
First off, the "he posted personal info" thing I don't agree with. Sir Molle, the leader of BoB, posted something to the effect of "Hey [first name], is it snowing in (country?)" on the official EVE Online forums, this was right as Kugutsumen (the hacker who "broke the story") was first starting to go public with his findings. Kugutsumen posted info on who Molle was (or maybe who some developer was?), on his own forum I believe, not the E-O forums. Molle apparently also tried to get folks to call Kugutsumen's place of employment to get him fired, but this too was on another forum, not CCP's. I can't blame him on some level, I'd post some irrational stuff if my forums just got hacked, guilty or not. I honestly think anyone trying to get Molle banned over that is just grasping at straws, trying to get a prominent member of BoB banned. Is Molle guilty of wrongdoing? Dunno, but there is no Evidence that he truly broke EULA and should be banned. However, the listed reason why Kugutsumen was banned was that he posted personal info of Molle or a dev or some such (I have not seen said post, and believe it was on his own forum, not CCP's.) Regardless, Kugutsumen was banned for reasons other than those being quoted, and I am not sure I can blame CCP for doing it, even though some accusations have proven true.
Now, there are a slew of allegations going around. The T2 prints from the dev character T20 (FYI, T20 apparently created the "T2 lottery system" but I could be wrong on that?) are just one of many allegations that the EVE player community is in an uproar about.
BoB has always "done whatever it takes" to win. EVE is a complex game, and folks take it seriously enough to infiltrate their rival corps with spies, steal all their stuff (get a spy in, get access to corp hangars, take stuff, leave corp), hack or infiltrate Teamspeak servers, etc. Any dirty trick was fair game for them, they were proud of it, but adamantly denied they had devs in their alliance or that they cheated. The list in this paragraph is just the things they have admitted to, and are all "within the rules" per CCP.
However, now T20 has admitted to creating the BPO's, lending credibility to the cries over the last 2 years of how BoB was cheating. Allegations they "crashed nodes" were ignored by EVE GM's, suspicious coincidences of GM events happening during player battles or teamspeak servers crashing as BoB fleets engaged were written off as "tin-foil-hattery." BoB were not the only alliance accused of such activities, just that they were #1 and hence a bigger target to the "They're cheating!" crowd. Now, I'm not so sure -- yes, that is right up until this scandal broke I really didn't think BoB cheated, and thought CCP would be retarded to have a dev playing amongst the #1 alliance -- just for the appearance of impropriety.
There have been reports of "ISD" staff (the ones who run storyline events, kinda "junior GM's") saving Lotka Volterra carriers from certain death, the rumor that Lotka Volterra got info on an ISD event and were able to unfairly win a mothership. There were hundreds of reports of BoB purposely crashing nodes (naughty) and using a well-known legitimate method to log back on before their foes (and even an explanation of how they did it) that went unpunished. Rumors of rigged tournaments as the dev who runs them is supposedly a member of BoB or a BoB-friendly organization. Rumors of GM's playing favorites in regards to petitions for ships lost due to lag or exploits. Rumors of CCP staff not responding to accusations of BoB shooting through POS shields (an exploit for sure, supposedly bannable, yet no BoB have been banned even though hundreds witnessed and attested to their actions.)
I don't want this to all be about BoB, but they really do have a cloud of stink around them right now since at least one of Kugutsumen's accusations has proven true, lending credit to the belief that more could be going on.
CCP is still completely ignoring the real questions and not addressing the concerns of the playerbase. They think they can just muffle this until it washes over and then be fine, sans a few hundred accounts.
I hope we can prove that this will not be silenced until they address the issues openly and honestly and the community is assured that cheating characters have been removed.
Comments
"If you consider mission running carebearing, then yes. I run missions in a very small corp in COSMOS space. Never mined with my main or any alts though.
PvP? Not really for me. I want to play EVE to relax and take my mind off work, even though playing and working are so intertwined in my case. Too much work to PvP."
A vast majority of the Devs have nothing to do at all with BoB, their allies, or their enemies. Some don't even play.
I wasn't to surprised, but never, never, NEVER thought they would cheat...and I was wrong, else I would have helped to blow the whistle back in the summer.
"K" did the eve playerbase a service by exposing CCP...no matter the method, he did expose them for the scum they are...
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
Thanks!
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Well you are entitled to your opinion, but the crux of the matter is not this tiny incident with the bpo's it is the general favoritism the the devs have given BOB that is completely inexcusable. How much insider information has been passed on to them?
How about bannable posts from top leaders of bob on the forums, getting erased by the mods and then denying they ever existed.
Sorry I saw one of them and can verify it occured and my brother saw another. CCP did zip about it. Now explain to me how that is not outright favoritism?
Basically, far as I am concerned, BOB's leadership is comprised of some of the biggest jerks in the game.
There is alot more to this story than a few BPO's, and while we will probably never know the extent of this mess, any fool should know when there is this much smoke, there has to be a lot of fire behind it.
I find it hard to put my trust and my money into a corporation that isn't up-front and honest with their customers, without whom, they would be jobless. We may not hold any shareholder positions in CCP, but our opinion of the company matters just as much, especially in the public fora. I haven't canceled my account yet, but I'm seriously thinking about it, because I just don't want to spend my hard earned money or time in a game that promotes the kind of crap that Kugutsumen has brought to light.
That being said, devs DO need to play their own games. However, there need to be rules that the public are aware of, including a rule against any dev accepting any kind of leadership position in any alliance/corp. As long as CCP is able to enforce those rules and uphold them, especially against public criticism, then maybe they'll have a chance at regaining my lost trust, along with the lost trust of many other players.
****************************
Current Games:
EVE Online - Co-CEO RTN [SOL]
FFXI - WHM 19/BLM 13 - Valefor Server
Before you cancel please transfer all your ISK to me. I'll be sure to let everyone know that you were serious when I see the ISK show up in my wallet.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
*Yawn
I've fought against BoB for most of my EVE career -- I was in Fountain Alliance when they first showed up in Delve and kicked us out. I was in the corp whose POS they infiltrated and offlined (metagaming for the win!) when they were removing us from Fountain.
Here is some info, pro and con to the current events, from my point of view:
First off, the "he posted personal info" thing I don't agree with. Sir Molle, the leader of BoB, posted something to the effect of "Hey [first name], is it snowing in (country?)" on the official EVE Online forums, this was right as Kugutsumen (the hacker who "broke the story") was first starting to go public with his findings. Kugutsumen posted info on who Molle was (or maybe who some developer was?), on his own forum I believe, not the E-O forums. Molle apparently also tried to get folks to call Kugutsumen's place of employment to get him fired, but this too was on another forum, not CCP's. I can't blame him on some level, I'd post some irrational stuff if my forums just got hacked, guilty or not. I honestly think anyone trying to get Molle banned over that is just grasping at straws, trying to get a prominent member of BoB banned. Is Molle guilty of wrongdoing? Dunno, but there is no Evidence that he truly broke EULA and should be banned. However, the listed reason why Kugutsumen was banned was that he posted personal info of Molle or a dev or some such (I have not seen said post, and believe it was on his own forum, not CCP's.) Regardless, Kugutsumen was banned for reasons other than those being quoted, and I am not sure I can blame CCP for doing it, even though some accusations have proven true.
Now, there are a slew of allegations going around. The T2 prints from the dev character T20 (FYI, T20 apparently created the "T2 lottery system" but I could be wrong on that?) are just one of many allegations that the EVE player community is in an uproar about.
BoB has always "done whatever it takes" to win. EVE is a complex game, and folks take it seriously enough to infiltrate their rival corps with spies, steal all their stuff (get a spy in, get access to corp hangars, take stuff, leave corp), hack or infiltrate Teamspeak servers, etc. Any dirty trick was fair game for them, they were proud of it, but adamantly denied they had devs in their alliance or that they cheated. The list in this paragraph is just the things they have admitted to, and are all "within the rules" per CCP.
However, now T20 has admitted to creating the BPO's, lending credibility to the cries over the last 2 years of how BoB was cheating. Allegations they "crashed nodes" were ignored by EVE GM's, suspicious coincidences of GM events happening during player battles or teamspeak servers crashing as BoB fleets engaged were written off as "tin-foil-hattery." BoB were not the only alliance accused of such activities, just that they were #1 and hence a bigger target to the "They're cheating!" crowd. Now, I'm not so sure -- yes, that is right up until this scandal broke I really didn't think BoB cheated, and thought CCP would be retarded to have a dev playing amongst the #1 alliance -- just for the appearance of impropriety.
There have been reports of "ISD" staff (the ones who run storyline events, kinda "junior GM's") saving Lotka Volterra carriers from certain death, the rumor that Lotka Volterra got info on an ISD event and were able to unfairly win a mothership. There were hundreds of reports of BoB purposely crashing nodes (naughty) and using a well-known legitimate method to log back on before their foes (and even an explanation of how they did it) that went unpunished. Rumors of rigged tournaments as the dev who runs them is supposedly a member of BoB or a BoB-friendly organization. Rumors of GM's playing favorites in regards to petitions for ships lost due to lag or exploits. Rumors of CCP staff not responding to accusations of BoB shooting through POS shields (an exploit for sure, supposedly bannable, yet no BoB have been banned even though hundreds witnessed and attested to their actions.)
I don't want this to all be about BoB, but they really do have a cloud of stink around them right now since at least one of Kugutsumen's accusations has proven true, lending credit to the belief that more could be going on.
CCP is still completely ignoring the real questions and not addressing the concerns of the playerbase. They think they can just muffle this until it washes over and then be fine, sans a few hundred accounts.
I hope we can prove that this will not be silenced until they address the issues openly and honestly and the community is assured that cheating characters have been removed.