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What would it take to make or break EVE?
Ashton692
Member Posts: 138
In a spirit of discussion I have a questions for those people out there that have decided at this time to continue to hold up the actions that CCP has taken:
Given that CCP controls the media, the justice, and the rules around their game, what would it take for you to be convinced that CCPs attitude was too relaxed towards their Developers/GMs interaction with their product? Given that without CCPs acknowledgement there will never be a smoking gun, at what point do you say "Wow, these guys are too corrupt, I'm not playing anymore!"
Now, I recognize that there are 2 sides to every story. And I would be an idiot if I couldn't see the other side of this one: CCP is in a no win situation. No matter what they do doubt will be cast on them going forward. So the question back to me, and the rest of us naysayers is:
What would it take for you to have a restored confidence in CCP? Given that any decision that they make is going to be unpopular, and any situation they find themselves in going forward will cause suspicion - but working through that, what would it take for you to consider this "case closed" and get back to enjoying the game?
So there are the two questions. I'm curious as to the answers on both sides. Lets try to respect other peoples opinions and realize that everyone has a different "make or break" point will be different... this is all (as another poster felt it necessary to point out) "our opinion."
(Mind you I'm going to answer later - because if I am any later then I already am the GF is going to kill me).
Comments
1) Kugutsumen would need all his accounts and everything he had restored.
2) Sirmolle hasn't been punished at all for doing the same thing kugutsumen was banned for.
3) Every single developer in BoB must have their account canceled (they need to start from scratch). There is no way any of them can stay and expect the Corp controlling the largest territory to be considered fair or legit. Maybe BoB has mad skills, maybe they don't. Removing the CCP employees would be a good test.
4) If any GM or developer bends the rules in the future, the punishment should be fairly severe, in writing, and made public when it happens.
Ultimately, they have an almost insignificant share of the MMO market, and they've damaged the relationship with every single one of their customers. Why should I trust them now? Should I bother playing? Do they think if I quit over this that I'll come back for any other MMO they make? Their future depends on how they react.
I think this has been very damaging to CCP as a company and its integrity has been tarnished, having said that i believe they will do what ANY smart company would do:
Try to never repeat these same mistakes.
I love EvE as the game it is and i would play any mmo CCP would make after this, im not necessarily a fanboi, i simply like the game a lot and i think its a quality product, im sure they will fix these issues cuz if they dont their done for. As a bussiness they must restore their integrity and they must take actions which will display their willingness to resolve the matter. I dont know all of the specifics btu anyone who was found breaking the EULA should be banned and the GM is question should be fired.
CCP has been a great company so far. Yes, they screwed up this time, but I'm willing to give them another chance. I won't be leaving, but I will be keeping my eyes open. IF something like this happen again, then I'd leave for sure. If not, then I hope CCP has learned it's lesson and we can all move on to enjoy this game.
EVE really is a great game. I hope CCP can learn from it's mistakes this time like so many times before and make it a better product instead of making it worse.
Before I write out what it would take to fix it (because, in case it wasn't clear in my initial post, I'm on the "omg, CCP sucks and EvE now sucks" side) ... I need to indentify what is broken.
1) CCP Credibility.
Every time something happens now, and an allegation could be raised, I will think that cheating could be behind it. In the last 6 months alone there have been allegations that a Titan was destroyed unfairly, Passive tagetters were used to circumvent POS shields, Nodes were crashing to certain alliances benefit and planning.. etc.. etc.. I now believe that some of these could be possibly exploits and cheats. Why do I want to play in a game where "GOD" (read: the developer) works against me and I have no recourse? Better to cut my losses now. This is the toughest one for me to reconcile. See point 4 below.
2) Kugutsmen Restored.
CCP dug their grave, and laid down in it. Kug just told us all about it. If he hadn't we would still be in the dark and the corruption would still be unexposed. If CCPs solution to dealing with THE TRUTH is to censor and ban it then I would rather cut my ties now. That kind of media censorship only proves the existence of further fear. If these was no wrong doing, then why fear? This is a huge point. The longer he is banned the more convinced I am that there is more going on here then admitted.
3) T20 Fired.
If CCP aren't going to lay down the law and take a zero-tolerance approach to Developer Cheating then why do I want to play this game? Leaving this an open issue just goes to show that CCP have a "shifting morality" depending on the person, not on the circumstance. The fact that T20 is still employed shows a mindset of favourtism that is deeply imbedded in the company. I want to be so certain of CCPs integrity that **EVEN IF IT DIDN't COME TO LIGHT** that their was a Dev who cheated in their midst they would still fire him... so if they aren't going to do it with the light so brightly upon it I have no confidence that they will hold to this policy (a needed policy!) at all when they are less accountable. On a personal note, I'm sorry T20 - I wish you all the best, you seem like a nice guy that made a mistake.. but you also have to realize that there are consequences to mistakes that transcend apologies. I for one forgive you, and don't hold it against you personally (I can't imagine the temptation!) but that doesn't mean there aren't consequences to your actions. Best of luck in your future career path!
4) Devs Playing the game -- with strict boundaries.
It is clear to me that Developers need to play the game to make the game. It is also clear to me that it is human nature to have the lines blurred when you are passionate about something. Developers should play the game, but they should also keep each other accountable to not being the "pillars" of movement in corporations. They need to sideline it a bit, and if they are in positions of political/economic power they need to get out of them and be more detached. Kieron said himself that he and Oveur are not as invovled in Alliance level politics -- he pointed this out as a positive thing, and I agree with him, and applaud him for the sacrifice. The fact he pointed it out also demonstrates that he sees value in that decision. The rest of the Dev team (particularly the Devs) need to do that as well. Step back. To quote the Godfather, "It's the price you pay for the life you choose."
5) Disclosure.
Coming right out and saying, "Yep, you guys are right, Devs were crashing nodes, killing titans, and targetting through POS shields for the last 2 years," would be disasterous. That said, since there is no accountability everything the Devs do is suspect. A group of trusted players, who will be under NDA, need to be brought into discussion about the depths of the corruption. They need to be told what has happened, what is changing, and what is going to be the case going forward. Then without giving specifics, and with a nod from CCP, they need to be able to post their thoughts to the community. "Guys, there were some things that were done poorly. They have new systems in place. Im confident that 85% of what has gone on previous that could have been better has been addressed," is all we would need. This body of players then needs to be involved with any escalated issue that calls the integrity of the Dev/GM team into question. Hopefully, with time, they can be phased out as CCP regains their credibility.
6) Discussion.
The fact that we aren't allowed to discuss this, and have discussion with the Devs, and have to pin all of our hopes for reform on 2 Dev bogs and 15 odd "answer popular questions" from Kieron... and were only allowed to ask those questions for a few days and now, with everything locked, have no recourse for open discussion... well... that screams in my ears "more is going on here." I wouldn't have posted on this board, or on any 3rd party board, if CCP would have kept the initial thread open, and had some feedback in that thread (Kieron's response thread was lacking, to say the least, any of the substance that was required). Now, without any way to vent my frustration I am forced to come here -- which is a really silly move on CCPs part - because they have no input here at all. OPen the discussion thread, grow some balls, talk about what screwed up and what wasn't... and be honest. Shutting people down is just turning long time loyal customers into vocal advesaries - and to be honest neither of us want that.
7) Time.
Yep - even if all this happened I think I would still let my account lapse, read about the community, and if there was a consistent pattern of integrity from CCP I might come back.
Until the above is figured done --- anyone know where an ex-EVEer can spend some time/money in a good community?
Cheers to all - especially CCP. Let's hope your prodigal return to your once great reputation happens despite your "growth". Return to your roots and I think you will find us all not far away.
1. This to me is what alot of people want, it breeds the tinfoil hat mentality that can destroy a gaming community. Overall, the term witch hunt in every bad connotation of the term; at least I think connotation is the appropriate term. It comes down to whether you want to assume everything is somebody cheating or whether or not it may have been a glitch, bug, or just a bad coincodince. That will be something each player will have to deciede on thier own, myself i will assume the latter before the former.
2. While it may be nice to allow someone who has brought this to light to not be banned, I do not agree with his unbanning. Due to the nature of his information gathering techniques, including the hacking of both the RAGOON and BoB forums, I have to wonder what message this would send to the community. Do we want people to have the precident that Hacking acceptable as long as your trying to uncover good. To me that is a far more detremental effect to the community then dcould vbe countered by any boon from Kug's reinstatement.
3. From a straight buisness sense this is a absolute management no-no. The same as people whish for consistancy in the punishment of players, it is and always will be a bad buisness manuver to change a a management discission on a employees punishment after such a period of time. If Mr. Petursson was to overule a reprimand or punishement that was handed to an employee it would of had to been shortly after his return to the office. Changing the punishment T20 recieved after this length of time would set a very bad precident in CCP's offices. Would you like to work in a Office where any time after a mistake even if you have already been reprimanded, and you can be fired, no matter what length of time or actions taken placed to mend your relationship with the company? I would hope that most of you would answer no to that.
4. this part I do agree with to some extent. While devs need to be able to access all areas of the game forh te purpose of politics they should stay in the role of grunts. But then again if they occasionally mix things up a bit it keeps us from getting a little too politically stable which could be just as bad for the game.
5. While I think disclosing things about this incident may be nice, again we hit the difference between what we would like and what is normal corporate policy. Internal investigations in a company are rarely divulged even to stockholders. Only serious issues that usually result in Criminal investigations are announced to the public, There are many reasons for this including numerous PR, privacy, and buisness ethics concerns. Also the question has to be asked, even if they did the player trustee disclosure for lack of a better term; how may people that don't believe CCP would change thier opinions? I was not shocked to see even further alligations spread after the 2 Dev blog, and would not be shocked if further allegations of the player's where not paid-off, lying, bribed, and whatever else people care to dream up.
6. While we may be able to discuss rationally ( and even I've been close to doing a full out flame war several times), it has been quite evident that for the most part the people on the forums do not wish to provide legitement discussions. Even several mundane threads have had to been locked numerous time to due to the flame wars that erupt. This being a topic that has many people way to emotional to begin with, has degraded to the point where even now I am wondering whether or not I will post any more on this particular forum. (be honest your post gave me some hope Ashton)
Well if you decide to let your accounts go for a bit it will be sad to see you go. The only thing I ask is that as you think of the "hot issues" that you have pointed out that few of the decisions that Mr. Petursson has to make only effects the people he is making them about. Alot of these decisions could have drastic repercussions for the EVE community and the work enviroment at CCP. Both which will directly effect how we play and enjoy thier games. I don't envy him of his position having been in charge during similiiar issues before.
We can vote with our wallets, and cancel subscriptions. Voice our opinions on forums/blogs/etc. other than the EVE website. Our voices will be heard, if we're loud enough.
As for when I feel that CCP is too corrupt and I won't play anymore: I'm just a few steps away. They seriously need to do /something/ about this whole mess, and not just delete/ban/lock like they have been doing. Trying to cover it up or just assume that the whole thing is over and everyone is happy will only make things worse.
They need to do the following, IMO, to restore my faith, and clean up their tarnished image:
1. Restore Kugutsmen's accounts. He never broke the EULA/TOS from what I read, nor posted any personal information. All the things he did wrong were /outside the game/. CCP can't punish people for anything non-EVE related. That's like banning someone from EVE, because they cheated on their Math test at school. Did they do something wrong? Yes. Is it part of CCP's jurisdiction. Hell no.
2. Sir Molle needs to be banned, at least temporarily, as he posted RL info about Kugutsmen. That is a blatant breach of the EULA and a bannable offence. Anyone else who has revealed RL info on players should also get banned.
3. They need to re-think their idea that Devs should play the game. Sure, this works in almost any other MMO. Why? Cause in other MMOs the Devs can't cheat to the same extent. It doesn't affect the entire political landscape of the game. So what if a Dev in CoH makes his char level 50 off the bat? I doesn't affect me. If a WoW Dev gives themselves Epics, does it make a difference? Maybe in PvP, but it's not going to adversely affect the rest of the playerbase.
The EVE Devs should /still/ play the game though. If they don't, they could become disconnected from the gameplay, and end up implementing changes that could adversely affect the entire game. Do they need to be Directors in major Alliances? Hell no. No Dev should ever allow themselves to be put in that situation, and have a conflict of interest. They can easily experience the game from the sidelines. Keep a low profile, etc.
4. They need to fix the imbalances those ill-gotten BPOs created. They should delete all the BPCs, and all instances of the finished items from the game. Perhaps give people some warning, so they could melt the items down, and at least retain the minerals. Keeping the minerals is fine, since they were obtained legally. I don't think they could find all the ISK made from all of those items, so it would be pointless to remove any ISK made from the BPOs.
Once the BPOs and all are gone from the game, they need to be re-seeded as per the T2 lotto. There are countless people who had RPs hoping to get one of those BPOs, and they all got screwed cause of t20's misconduct.
5. Speaking of t20, they need to come down on him harder than they did. Should they fire him? I think so, but he screwed up over 6 months ago, and they closed the book on it. I think they should simply ban him from playing the game ever again. He can keep his job, but he can never enjoy EVE again. Seems like almost a fitting punishment. Besides, what does the T2 lotto guy need to see in the game that will affect his job? He probably does all his work crunching numbers and running data miners, etc.
All Devs/GMs caught cheating in the future should be fired on the spot, IMO. If they all know the consequences beforehand, there should be no hesitation. And knowing the consequences should deter any of them from cheating in the future. The new Internal Affairs type group in CCP is a good step in the right direction.
6. They have to be up front, and not sweep this all under the rug. Denying it happened, or just assuming it'll go away won't cut it. They'll end up looking even worse. And that won't help the game at all.
As for me, I'm going to finish out this month of play, and see what happens. My account expires at the end of the month. If they haven't done something by then, I'm gone. There are a lot of MMOs coming out in the near future, and I still have a bunch of SP games I want to play.
__________________________________
Playing - Waiting on GW2
Formerly played - Aion, CO, CoX, EVE, GW1, LotRO, RIFT, Ryzom, SWG, SWTOR, WAR, WoW
Trialed - AA, DDO, EQ2, L2, MxO, RYL, TERA, VSoH
Beta'd - HGL, GW2, PotBS, SWTOR, TCoS, TR
Anticipating - GW2, PS2
They'd need to state that all developer characters would be removed from large alliances, that BoB would be forcibly disbanded, that Sir Molle and DBPreacher were to have all their characters permabanned and that anyone who'd fought RKK or any other BOB corp in the last 8 months was to get reimbursed for any ship losses and finally that t20 was losing his job. I'd also want full disclosure of all the other Dev/ISD cheating that's been going on over the years, and we know there's a LOT more they're not owning up to.
None of which is feasible of course.
i.e. CCP are never going to regain my trust again. They've killed EVE, it's over, the game isn't worth playing any more. CCP deserve to go bankrupt over this. I feel sorry for all the devs and staff that have done nothing wrong, it's not their fault, but the reputation of CCP is forever ruined now, and nothing they do can recover it.
do not forget about BoB directorship sharing accounts for cyno alts. that needs to be dealt with, too. and dpb buying a char with real money.
and since this isnt a your regular "ban of the week", it should all be made public, so that the comunity can see that our concerns have been adressed.
i mean, it be great to read this from them:
"we have banned a known BoB leader for 3 weeks for posting real life information on the forums. The regular action is a permaban, but since the info wasnt so important we decided that a 3 week ban would be better.
we have banned 10 rkk directors, 10 evolution directors and 30 ragoons directors for sharing accounts. they will remain banned for 2 months.
about the allegations of certain BoB member buying chars with real life money, we have no evidence at all, in fact our logs show that he bought some chars through our sanctioned forum method.
we will reinvestigate all petitions regarding node crashes, dev accusations and BoB of the last year, and we assure you we will reimburse any ship that was blown up while inside a pos' shield or by any other bug/exploit whether it was made public or not.
and finally, we apologize for everything we have done wrong, for everything we have hidden from the community and ask you to trust on us again.
disclosure: this is a special case, but have never, and will never again, discuss internal affairs and moderation with third parties.
CCP"
Right now, EVE would be better with 120k subscribers, so I think that CCP should give the finger to the extra 50k, who are mostly whiny and stupid.
They should crack down on character sharing, too - RA's squadrons of communal complex-alts are getting annoying.
What's really important though is that CCP bows to the mob pressure and starts randomly banning people based on who's winning at the time. Nothing says "future success" like putting the power in the hands of a bunch of pitchfork-wielding nutjobs.
They need to get a better grip on employee cheating. Possible measures that come to mind are:
-Remove GM access on Tranquility for devs. They can still play but without GM powers. If they need to test something, use a test server.
-Disallow regular GMs to spawn ANY stuff for their corpmates. If one of those has a legit petition, have it reviewed by a GM who is not part of the corp or ally.
What would it take to break EVE?
-Do nothing of the above and have a few more scandals like the current one.
You don't think there's anything amiss? I'm sat here wearing a red and white gingham dress, and army boots, you think that's un-amiss?
Doesnt matter what they do, if any alliance gets the upper hand there will always be a subset of the players that claim its because of CCP employee interference or insider knowledge. The only people who know exactly what effect the CCP employee toons have had or will have is CCP. That is never going change, no matter what CCP do. Even if CCP claimed they no longer allow employees to play the game, there would still be a subset of players that refused to believe it.
The majority of their employees probably haven't cheated or knowingly used insider knowledge to benefit themselves, much like the majority of shop employees dont steal from the tills or shelves and the majority of office employees dont steal office equipment or stationary.
For me they have done enough, they have established an internal affairs team to police what the employees do in game with their non-work toons. Hopefully it will be well enough staffed to ensure that any transgressions that occur are picked up quickly and dealt with before they become public knowledge.
i have not been affected by this and i still enjoy EvE.
Doing something similar as quoted shouldn't be too hard for CCP to do though.
Knowledge is Power!
Yet another topic about the same damn story. People need to check into reality from time to time. this is a game. Either play it or don't.
My offer stays open: Anyone quitting EVE over this 'scandal' is welcome to transfer all their isk to me. I promise to spend it wisely.
Not that I really think very many will quit. Most will say they're quitting. And post endlessly about how they are quitting... then when the time comes they won't really cancel... oh they might hit the cancel button but as soon as they can't get in anymore they'll re-activate.
This isn't a HUGE big deal everyone is making it out to be. CCP has dealt with the situation and has put measures in place to prevent future occurances. The only thing I think was handled wrong is that T20 should have been fired. Other than that I don't find any fault with how they've handled the situation.
You aren't stock holders. You do not have any right to know what CCP is doing internally or otherwise to deal with the situation. You pay them to play a GAME for crying out loud. Get a grip on reality.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
erm.... just a quick question. I recently dl'd the trial version lied the game and just started subscribing, but....
what the sam hell are you all talking about? whats happened? its like ive been living under a rock. Please explain in Laymans terms cos im english
HEH!
I agree with you 100%. I use to play EVE, but got out of it a while back because it didn't interest me any more; but I still think the game is great. So some of the dev got busted for cheating? Big deal! Did it really effect that many players in the long run? There is no "make or break" situation in EVE's case because it is a nitch market game, in which they have very little competition at the moment. People are still going to play because of the game setting and it's fun.
Also, I guess I never understood why people create 2 or 3 accounts in the first place? I think alot of the banter about "I canceled my 2 or 3 accounts because of the scandel" is a bunch of nonsense. So, can the EVE gripers please quit rehashing the same complant threads. Thanks Buddy
Devs cheated
ISP/GM's showed favortism and Devs ignored it.
Lie/cheat/broom/rug, against the players...more then enough reason for the masses to leave.
To decry that anyone angered over the betrayal and coverup, is whining and needs to check on reality is a joke. This is reality, it is our $$$ that ccp needs, and we would like what we paid for. We did not pay for a game where ccp gets to cheat and do favors for their buddies in the game, but will ban anyone outside their clique that cast light on their misdeads against the majority of the playerbase.
Please goto Walmart and purchase a clue. (are you working for ccp or just hoping for a t2 bpo by sucking up?)
Now to the OP;
My accounts are canceled, all 3, but one has gtc time left, and I will use that time to drive pilots to their demise, within the games rules. If ccp decides to do an aboutface and actualy do something other then sweep the matter under the rug, like they did with all their other misdeads, then I might extend. ( I came back once before, so it can happen
as far as was this betrayal a game breaker...yes it was, but anything that is broken can be fixed, it just depends on the cost, and ccp won't accept that cost ( it involves swallowing pride, admitting full guilt, and punishing their buddies...so I dont see it happening).
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
Honestly it's nothing major worth working yourself up over. A DEV or two who play the game got nailed with their hands in the cookie jar (abusing dev powers to enhance their chances in the game with their 'normal' characters). CCP isn't handling it quite as quickly or in exactly the manner that some players would like them to.
In the grand scheme of things the results of what went on won't matter to the average player. I think 10 Tech 2 BPO's (most of which aren't worth much anyway with the exception of a Interdictor BPO) were involved. The BPO's have been removed from the game and the Dev in question had all his personal characters in the game deleted. He wasn't fired though and some folks are irked about that. A few other devs were 'found out' on their 'normal' accounts and have had their characters deleted as well though there were no illegal activities proven on their accounts. CCP Policy is that Devs are allowed to play but do son on a NORMAL game account (not their dev account). The dev in question spawned a few BPO's and gave them to his normal account which he eventually gave to his corp).
Since the incident CCP has implemented new tools to detect and prevent this type of thing as well as created an internal affairs type department to play watchdog on the devs so it can't happen in future.
That pretty much sums things up.
About the only thing I have a problem with at this point is that they didn't fire the dev who was caught cheating. But that's not my business, it's theirs. I don't really have any right to tell them how to handle their employees beyond making sure they can't impact my gameplay negatively in this way again, which is what they're doing.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Devs cheated
ISP/GM's showed favortism and Devs ignored it.
Lie/cheat/broom/rug, against the players...more then enough reason for the masses to leave.
To decry that anyone angered over the betrayal and coverup, is whining and needs to check on reality is a joke. This is reality, it is our $$$ that ccp needs, and we would like what we paid for. We did not pay for a game where ccp gets to cheat and do favors for their buddies in the game, but will ban anyone outside their clique that cast light on their misdeads against the majority of the playerbase.
Please goto Walmart and purchase a clue. (are you working for ccp or just hoping for a t2 bpo by sucking up?)
Last time I checked the Dev had his account deleted. What else happened to him administratively internally we are not privy to (nor should we be). The offending BPO's were removed from the game. New tools and processes are being put in place to prevent future occurances. An entire new department has been created to oversee things to make sure it doesn't happen again and the DEV in question made a public appology, as has CCP.
Asking for more than this is beyond your scope of "rights" as a player. If you want to quit over it? Go for it. I really couldn't care less. But demanding they do "more" is silly. They're doing everything any reasonable person could expect them to. Should they have terminated T20? I don't know, nor do I care. It's THEIR employee, not mine. Personally I'd have fired him. They haven't, thus far, and that's their call.
Oh, and in case anyone else missed it: They also deleted the characters of all the other Devs who's identities were exposed. Many of those characters being 3+ years old.
Now: You can either trust that CCP has done, and is doing, everything they say they are and move on with your life. Or you can make yourself a tinfoil hat (remember: You can't buy one, it might have been tampered with) and join the other conspiracy theorists that think ALL of CCP is corrupt because 1 DEV has been caught giving out 10 BPOs (all but one of which were fairly worthless in the grand scheme of things).
Personally while I'm dissapointed with the time it took for CCP to deal with the issue I am not about to go quitting. They did deal with it and have been pretty good about informing us what they are doing about it. Sure it took them longer than it should have but if I have learned one thing about CCP after having been involved with this game since Beta Phase 2 it is this: They make mistakes, they're human, but they rarely make the same mistakes twice. I have faith that they'll prevent this from happening again.
I don't need to buy a clue thanks. It's a game. And frankly the "OMFGSCANDALWTF" really didn't affect me in the game in any way shape or form.
And my offer stands: Anyone quitting EVE over this is more than welcome to transfer all their ISK to my account before they go. I would love the extra funds and I promise to use the ISK wisely...
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Devs cheated
ISP/GM's showed favortism and Devs ignored it.
Lie/cheat/broom/rug, against the players...more then enough reason for the masses to leave.
To decry that anyone angered over the betrayal and coverup, is whining and needs to check on reality is a joke. This is reality, it is our $$$ that ccp needs, and we would like what we paid for. We did not pay for a game where ccp gets to cheat and do favors for their buddies in the game, but will ban anyone outside their clique that cast light on their misdeads against the majority of the playerbase.
Please goto Walmart and purchase a clue. (are you working for ccp or just hoping for a t2 bpo by sucking up?)
Now to the OP;
My accounts are canceled, all 3, but one has gtc time left, and I will use that time to drive pilots to their demise, within the games rules. If ccp decides to do an aboutface and actualy do something other then sweep the matter under the rug, like they did with all their other misdeads, then I might extend. ( I came back once before, so it can happen
as far as was this betrayal a game breaker...yes it was, but anything that is broken can be fixed, it just depends on the cost, and ccp won't accept that cost ( it involves swallowing pride, admitting full guilt, and punishing their buddies...so I dont see it happening).
Yes, we understand that CCP made mistakes. Yes, we know that you paid money to play. But the company dealt with the issue (poorly, or other wise). So how is reposting the same hate threads helping? If you have already closed your "3 accounts", in my opinion you made a desicion not to play - hence you have nothing to complain about. Let it go, man. It's not the end of the world!
What, are you going to be thinking about this in 70 years on your death bed, or something? "*cough, cough* Those CCP sons-of-bitches *cough, cough* They ruined EVE...*cough, death*"?
Personally I think the whole thing has now been totally blown out of proportion.CCP and the Eve community need to move on.Yes it stinks and there is probably a whole lot more going on that we dont know about.
Best way you can do anything about it is to cancel.Flaming forums across all different sites just achieves nothing.
Some good posts above (some exceptions), but reasons for quitting Eve include but are not only because its corrupt at a very basic level. I mean this isn't just about the developer printing off a few blueprints, its also about inside information - not just developers, but GMs and Polaris people too (LV alliance mothership anyone?). The game is fundamentally corrupt and why would it be otherwise? Its a game written by UO griefers! CCP actively market big in-game scams in order to attract dodgy characters into the game-world - untrustworthy characters, scammers, exploiters, griefers are lauded to the heavens on the forums as being the ultimate in Eve gameplay; presumably this includes the developers. They encourage an "anything goes" mentality and because of this don't have any mechanisms for keeping tabs on their own. If you think T20 is the only dodgy character in Eve, all I can say is HAHAHAHA! Honestly, the game is marketed as corrupt on the inside, it isn't surprising that it's corrupt on the outside too. In fact its inevitable.
I cancelled all 3 of my accounts - one of which goes back to Beta 5/6. Over the years its become an unpleasant place to hang out. Now more so than ever. Basically, Eve sucks.
Devs cheated
ISP/GM's showed favortism and Devs ignored it.
Lie/cheat/broom/rug, against the players...more then enough reason for the masses to leave.
To decry that anyone angered over the betrayal and coverup, is whining and needs to check on reality is a joke. This is reality, it is our $$$ that ccp needs, and we would like what we paid for. We did not pay for a game where ccp gets to cheat and do favors for their buddies in the game, but will ban anyone outside their clique that cast light on their misdeads against the majority of the playerbase.
Please goto Walmart and purchase a clue. (are you working for ccp or just hoping for a t2 bpo by sucking up?)
Now to the OP;
My accounts are canceled, all 3, but one has gtc time left, and I will use that time to drive pilots to their demise, within the games rules. If ccp decides to do an aboutface and actualy do something other then sweep the matter under the rug, like they did with all their other misdeads, then I might extend. ( I came back once before, so it can happen
as far as was this betrayal a game breaker...yes it was, but anything that is broken can be fixed, it just depends on the cost, and ccp won't accept that cost ( it involves swallowing pride, admitting full guilt, and punishing their buddies...so I dont see it happening).
Yes, we understand that CCP made mistakes. Yes, we know that you paid money to play. But the company dealt with the issue (poorly, or other wise). So how is reposting the same hate threads helping? If you have already closed your "3 accounts", in my opinion you made a desicion not to play - hence you have nothing to complain about. Let it go, man. It's not the end of the world!
What, are you going to be thinking about this in 70 years on your death bed, or something? "*cough, cough* Those CCP sons-of-bitches *cough, cough* They ruined EVE...*cough, death*"?
I did pay
I have choosen not to continue
I will complain because unlike you, I still beleave in voicing my displeasure with those that have wronged me.
Now stop trolling.
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
uhmmmm, that is great. now, what should be do with those 1.147.255 posts? burn them, right? come on, this is a forum, why should we be able to write our feelings?
Like a chess tournament where the players do their best to beat each other, but the rules of the game are strictly obeyed. Only that EVE has more layers with the "social engineering" aspect.
Now CCPs ability and intent to keep the game neutral have come under suspicion, which is a problem because you cannot, even with the best skills and tactics, successfully compete against cheating. I'm still inclined to believe they will improve, but if they fail it will sour the game for me.
In short:
Dodgy characters in game are OK, but if the organizer of the tournament bends the rules, it is not fun anymore.