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Why Do MMOs Suck? Part 1: An Intro

Greetings fellow MMO-ers,



I am currently writing a series of articles on my blog pertaining to the MMO industry, and I would love your feedback. My blog can be found at: http://triconium.com/, however I will be posting the articles here as well. I believe all content should be widely available, and my intention is not to draw people to my blog, but to the article and it's content.



For those of you that may disagree with what I say: please note that this is not intended to be a personal attack on your tastes, but an analysis of how MMOs should evolve, and what additional genres need to be spawned if the industry is to continue in it's current direction.



Thank you for your time.



-- Tricon Triconium








I have played a number of MMOs over the years including: Dark Age of Camelot, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies, EVE Online, World of Warcraft, and Guild Wars. For some of these games I bear pleasant memories, while for others my mind carries memories of disdain. Out of all of the MMOs that I have played, the only one that I continue to invest time in is Guild Wars for the simple fact that since it’s free, I can play off and on at my leisure. But even Guild Wars carries elements that I have grown to hate in MMOs. Why do MMOs suck?

Ask yourself: what are my favorite video gaming memories? For most of us, our favorite video gaming memories are not attributed to MMOs. Why is this? The answer is simple: MMOs have not tapped into the elements that make most singleplayer and multiplayer games memorable and enjoyable (hereforth, multiplayer refers to multiplayer games that are not massively multiplayer).

Whether it’s experiencing the life, emotion, and personality of a character, dodging rockets and snipers to capture the flag, or blasting your way through starships and fleets to save your home-world, singleplayer and multiplayer games offer rich, immersive, interactive experiences. MMOs on the other hand offer hours of gameplay to what? Get a cool looking item? To slay the boss who will only respawn 30 minutes later for drops and availability? To hear a NPC praise you for saving the day and then stand around to say the same thing to the next player? What a lack of immersion; what a thorn in the suspension of disbelief. It is time for MMOs to evolve and tap into an element only a few of them have taken seriously: role-playing.

Role-playing can surpass graphics and features in MMOs for it provides a virtual platform for gamers to create their own society. It’s an opportunity to make friends and memories — a chance to be somebody else. The best MMO memories I have are those of Star Wars Galaxies, when I would sit around a campfire or cantina and talk in character about who I was, where I came from, and why I was there. It’s immersion driven by people for people. Unforunately, many games do not provide the facilities, restrictions, and gameplay required to make such immersion possible. It’s time for MMOs to evolve.

“Part 2: An Evolution” will cover what the next generation of MMOs need in order to reach their full potential.

Comments

  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    Your analysis: MMO's suck becuase they lack the facilitys to Roleplay effectively.



    Debatable.



    There are many elements in MMO's which enable them to succeed and fail, but you cannot win everyones heart. For example.. Some people prefer grouping others prefer soloing, but you cannot appeal to both becuase appealing to one cancels out the other. You are always, no matter what you do, going to lose a percentage of your possible audience. But what you can do is pick your target audience and design a game for them.



    So in retrospect, MMO's suck becuase you havent found an MMO geared towards Roleplayers, or if you have, you didnt enjoy it.

    ---
    image

  • TriconiumTriconium Member Posts: 6
    I admit the title of the post is rather harsh, and I completely understand that some games tailor to RP-ers and some don't. In the second article I will cover more of the technological and gameplay elements, but for now I wish to inspire conversation as to what could offer a better social, RP experience to RP-ers.
  • FreddyNoNoseFreddyNoNose Member Posts: 1,558
    Originally posted by Triconium

    I admit the title of the post is rather harsh, and I completely understand that some games tailor to RP-ers and some don't. In the second article I will cover more of the technological and gameplay elements, but for now I wish to inspire conversation as to what could offer a better social, RP experience to RP-ers.



    In your first post you imply you are looking for feedback.  Now you say you want to inspire conversation.  This seem to be something more appropriate for the developers corner>MMORPG game concepts forum.

    You have a goal in mind can you bullet point it so we can see what you want up front?

  • _Jord__Jord_ Member Posts: 228


    This post fails to deliver.



    You lack the insight to realize that there are a GREAT number of players that don't give a crap about RP.



    We like the game for the combat dynamics, solo and group. We love the games for the ability to acquire wealth. We love the games because we enjoy PvP or raiding or some new concept that some developer introduces.



    When I think of my favorite video game moments, I don't think about the same things you do.



    PS. Guild wars is a great game, but it's not an MMORPG.

    ------
    Played - UO, FFXI, WAR, WoW, EVE
    Currently - Bored.

  • TriconiumTriconium Member Posts: 6
    FreddyNoNose & _Jord_,



    i see your your points, and I appreciate your responses. I clearly did not take the time to set a pace and direction for this article, and I admit that my post was emotionally inspired and not logically inspired. I am willing to recant any statement that involves a lack of logic.



    Perhaps this spawned from a recent burnout I experienced with MMOs. Again, this was never intended to offend anybody and perhaps does belong in the MMORPG concepts forum.



    When I played WoW I didn't play on RP servers, and I became ok with this. But in terms of enjoyment my experiences "grinding" pale in comparison to those when I roleplayed. I do not declare that ALL MMOs MUST be RP, and I apologize that this is the overtone that I conveyed.
  • LignerLigner Member Posts: 59
    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Your analysis: MMO's suck becuase they lack the facilitys to Roleplay effectively.



    Debatable.



    There are many elements in MMO's which enable them to succeed and fail, but you cannot win everyones heart. For example.. Some people prefer grouping others prefer soloing, but you cannot appeal to both becuase appealing to one cancels out the other. You are always, no matter what you do, going to lose a percentage of your possible audience. But what you can do is pick your target audience and design a game for them.



    So in retrospect, MMO's suck becuase you havent found an MMO geared towards Roleplayers, or if you have, you didnt enjoy it.

    I agree and disagree. Games of today simply not aiming to attract different type of players for complication of balance (as you said) and prefer to target specific market instead. However I strongly believe that if developers would do their homework right they would be able to satisfy oppositions and tie both ends together.



    I'll use grouping as example since you have already mentioned it. Such game mechanics as questing and combat can be done in such way that it will attract solo and groups activities. Lets say hunting area is designed for characters around level 20 and can be done solo with a bit of challenge. Now in order to make it enjoyable for the group to hunt in the same area gameplay may employ such concept where players of the same hunting party receive appropriate bonuses such can be extra xp (instead of sharing 50/50% with the partner it could be 75/75 or 70/70/70 for the group of 3 members or 65/65/65/65 for the group of 4 and so on). That system has been employed in one of the pioneer MMO Asheron's Call and worked great.



    Lets see how it could work in the game we all know (yes WoW):

    You're first level and has been given a task in Northshire to kill 10 Cobolts. While you can complete that task easily on your own you can choose to form a party and enjoy extra xp. Besides that would make it possible to eliminate frustration of hunting at the same spot with many people when trying to get a kill while not letting others to still yours.



    Almost any issue has its answer in the history of MMOs. The trouble is that at the end of the day it comes to the "guy on top" who has bucks, but not the desire to build "proper" product. There is plenty of answers to how unite PvP and PvE players under one roof, make decent crafting system, help players to establish strong guilds, create game world where players would roleplay naturally rather then creating special "reservations"  called RP servers and etc, etc, etc.d



    Originally posted by Triconium

    I admit the title of the post is rather harsh, and I completely understand that some games tailor to RP-ers and some don't. In the second article I will cover more of the technological and gameplay elements, but for now I wish to inspire conversation as to what could offer a better social, RP experience to RP-ers.
    www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/96076

    Check this thread out mate. Would be interesting to hear your opinion.



    Ligner

    image
    _________________________________
    Played:
    AC, AC2, UO, AO, EQ, EQ2, Shadowbane, DAoC, Horisons, SWG, EVE, L2, GW, WoW, DDO, LotRO
    Beta tested:
    AC, AC2, EQ2, SWG, Horisons, WoW, Archlord, LotRO, Espado Granada, Vanguard
    Currently playing: AoC

  • HarafnirHarafnir Member UncommonPosts: 1,350
    Not exactly a blogg bult upon knowledge and research, but with a conclusion completly pulled out of pure personal taste. Fortunatly for the MMO genre, no developer will ever read that and  when reading it, change his own viewpoint. Its is just too obvious its all about one persons little wish for more cyber, and not for the good of a multimilion head community.

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • TriconiumTriconium Member Posts: 6
    Harafnir,



    Thanks for the response. It is not based upon research, nor do I claim it to be. It is from my blog, and as such it is my opinion. My intention is not to start another thread about how SoE ruined SWG, but in my opinion SWG had the best RP ever, and as such carries my favorite memories.



    Take care,

    Tricon
  • retrospecticretrospectic Member UncommonPosts: 1,466
    Originally posted by Triconium

    Greetings fellow MMO-ers,



    I am currently writing a series of articles on my blog pertaining to the MMO industry, and I would love your feedback. My blog can be found at: http://triconium.com/, however I will be posting the articles here as well. I believe all content should be widely available, and my intention is not to draw people to my blog, but to the article and it's content.



    For those of you that may disagree with what I say: please note that this is not intended to be a personal attack on your tastes, but an analysis of how MMOs should evolve, and what additional genres need to be spawned if the industry is to continue in it's current direction.



    Thank you for your time.



    -- Tricon Triconium






    Why Do MMOs Suck? Part 1: An Intro

    I have played a number of MMOs over the years including: Dark Age of Camelot, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies, EVE Online, World of Warcraft, and Guild Wars. For some of these games I bear pleasant memories, while for others my mind carries memories of disdain. Out of all of the MMOs that I have played, the only one that I continue to invest time in is Guild Wars for the simple fact that since it’s free, I can play off and on at my leisure. But even Guild Wars carries elements that I have grown to hate in MMOs. Why do MMOs suck?
    Ask yourself: what are my favorite video gaming memories? For most of us, our favorite video gaming memories are not attributed to MMOs. Why is this? The answer is simple: MMOs have not tapped into the elements that make most singleplayer and multiplayer games memorable and enjoyable (hereforth, multiplayer refers to multiplayer games that are not massively multiplayer).
    Whether it’s experiencing the life, emotion, and personality of a character, dodging rockets and snipers to capture the flag, or blasting your way through starships and fleets to save your home-world, singleplayer and multiplayer games offer rich, immersive, interactive experiences. MMOs on the other hand offer hours of gameplay to what? Get a cool looking item? To slay the boss who will only respawn 30 minutes later for drops and availability? To hear a NPC praise you for saving the day and then stand around to say the same thing to the next player? What a lack of immersion; what a thorn in the suspension of disbelief. It is time for MMOs to evolve and tap into an element only a few of them have taken seriously: role-playing.
    Role-playing can surpass graphics and features in MMOs for it provides a virtual platform for gamers to create their own society. It’s an opportunity to make friends and memories — a chance to be somebody else. The best MMO memories I have are those of Star Wars Galaxies, when I would sit around a campfire or cantina and talk in character about who I was, where I came from, and why I was there. It’s immersion driven by people for people. Unforunately, many games do not provide the facilities, restrictions, and gameplay required to make such immersion possible. It’s time for MMOs to evolve.
    “Part 2: An Evolution” will cover what the next generation of MMOs need in order to reach their full potential.

    You haven't played Ultima Online?  That game had plenty of RP.  People had whole towns that were GM blessed and such.  Players had bars that were open with bartenders.  People set up PvP road blocks and asked for bribes to be let by, etc.
  • retrospecticretrospectic Member UncommonPosts: 1,466
    Originally posted by retrospectic

    Originally posted by Triconium

    Greetings fellow MMO-ers,



    I am currently writing a series of articles on my blog pertaining to the MMO industry, and I would love your feedback. My blog can be found at: http://triconium.com/, however I will be posting the articles here as well. I believe all content should be widely available, and my intention is not to draw people to my blog, but to the article and it's content.



    For those of you that may disagree with what I say: please note that this is not intended to be a personal attack on your tastes, but an analysis of how MMOs should evolve, and what additional genres need to be spawned if the industry is to continue in it's current direction.



    Thank you for your time.



    -- Tricon Triconium






    Why Do MMOs Suck? Part 1: An Intro

    I have played a number of MMOs over the years including: Dark Age of Camelot, Planetside, Star Wars Galaxies, EVE Online, World of Warcraft, and Guild Wars. For some of these games I bear pleasant memories, while for others my mind carries memories of disdain. Out of all of the MMOs that I have played, the only one that I continue to invest time in is Guild Wars for the simple fact that since it’s free, I can play off and on at my leisure. But even Guild Wars carries elements that I have grown to hate in MMOs. Why do MMOs suck?
    Ask yourself: what are my favorite video gaming memories? For most of us, our favorite video gaming memories are not attributed to MMOs. Why is this? The answer is simple: MMOs have not tapped into the elements that make most singleplayer and multiplayer games memorable and enjoyable (hereforth, multiplayer refers to multiplayer games that are not massively multiplayer).
    Whether it’s experiencing the life, emotion, and personality of a character, dodging rockets and snipers to capture the flag, or blasting your way through starships and fleets to save your home-world, singleplayer and multiplayer games offer rich, immersive, interactive experiences. MMOs on the other hand offer hours of gameplay to what? Get a cool looking item? To slay the boss who will only respawn 30 minutes later for drops and availability? To hear a NPC praise you for saving the day and then stand around to say the same thing to the next player? What a lack of immersion; what a thorn in the suspension of disbelief. It is time for MMOs to evolve and tap into an element only a few of them have taken seriously: role-playing.
    Role-playing can surpass graphics and features in MMOs for it provides a virtual platform for gamers to create their own society. It’s an opportunity to make friends and memories — a chance to be somebody else. The best MMO memories I have are those of Star Wars Galaxies, when I would sit around a campfire or cantina and talk in character about who I was, where I came from, and why I was there. It’s immersion driven by people for people. Unforunately, many games do not provide the facilities, restrictions, and gameplay required to make such immersion possible. It’s time for MMOs to evolve.
    “Part 2: An Evolution” will cover what the next generation of MMOs need in order to reach their full potential.

    You haven't played Ultima Online?  That game had plenty of RP.  People had whole towns that were GM blessed and such.  Players had bars that were open with bartenders.  People set up PvP road blocks and asked for bribes to be let by, etc. Although, I'm pretty sure any RP now goes on in Carebear lands and is totally stupid and probably involves some sort of lurid crap.
  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    Originally posted by Ligner

    I agree and disagree. Games of today simply not aiming to attract different type of players for complication of balance (as you said) and prefer to target specific market instead. However I strongly believe that if developers would do their homework right they would be able to satisfy oppositions and tie both ends together.



    I'll use grouping as example since you have already mentioned it. Such game mechanics as questing and combat can be done in such way that it will attract solo and groups activities. Lets say hunting area is designed for characters around level 20 and can be done solo with a bit of challenge. Now in order to make it enjoyable for the group to hunt in the same area gameplay may employ such concept where players of the same hunting party receive appropriate bonuses such can be extra xp (instead of sharing 50/50% with the partner it could be 75/75 or 70/70/70 for the group of 3 members or 65/65/65/65 for the group of 4 and so on). That system has been employed in one of the pioneer MMO Asheron's Call and worked great.



    Lets see how it could work in the game we all know (yes WoW):

    You're first level and has been given a task in Northshire to kill 10 Cobolts. While you can complete that task easily on your own you can choose to form a party and enjoy extra xp. Besides that would make it possible to eliminate frustration of hunting at the same spot with many people when trying to get a kill while not letting others to still yours.



    Almost any issue has its answer in the history of MMOs. The trouble is that at the end of the day it comes to the "guy on top" who has bucks, but not the desire to build "proper" product. There is plenty of answers to how unite PvP and PvE players under one roof, make decent crafting system, help players to establish strong guilds, create game world where players would roleplay naturally rather then creating special "reservations"  called RP servers and etc, etc, etc.d




    Ligner
    I'd be agreeable to that system, however I dont feel it would provide to group-centric players.



    In a game design for soloplay, the number of solo players directly outweighs that of group-centrics use WoW as an example. The result, is that it takes longer to form groups. Of course other elements pay into this like centralization of quests/missions, Guild Wars does this very well. But the fact remains and crosses over, when the game is designed for group play, soloers will not enjoy the game so much becuase they are forced into grouping BUT, you will be able to find groups.



    Most games try to cater for both, thats where I feel they go wrong. There is room for solo play in a MMO but it should heavily outweigh group play. Of course, that is IMO.

    ---
    image

  • FikusOfAhaziFikusOfAhazi Member Posts: 1,835

    They suck cause people will buy them. Dude, the game doesnt even have to work right, and people will make complete asses of themselves defending the company that made it. Until the consumer is no longer willing to pay for a crap game, then is no longer willing to pay for items or gold in the crap game, then is unwilling to view ads in the crap game, then is unwilling to buy expansions for the crap game, then is unwilling to repeat all that when the same company releases another crap game...there is no reason for a company to take a chance on anything else, cause this makes money....and because they dont have anything else...because it takes freedom to be able to create the next big thing in MMO's..and what developers are 'free' to design anything?

    See you in the dream..
    The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.

  • methulahmethulah Member Posts: 236
    Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi


    They suck cause people will buy them. Dude, the game doesnt even have to work right, and people will make complete asses of themselves defending the company that made it. Until the consumer is no longer willing to pay for a crap game, then is no longer willing to pay for items or gold in the crap game, then is unwilling to view ads in the crap game, then is unwilling to buy expansions for the crap game, then is unwilling to repeat all that when the same company releases another crap game...there is no reason for a company to take a chance on anything else, cause this makes money....and because they dont have anything else...because it takes freedom to be able to create the next big thing in MMO's..and what developers are 'free' to design anything?
    Unfortunately, this only strikes me as true. I wish it wasn't so, and god damn, I wish there was some way around it, but since the whole industry knows where the real money is, we won't see some innovation until someone comes along and proves us all wrong.
  • GreenHellGreenHell Member UncommonPosts: 1,323
    Yup it kind of sucks that due to the success of WoW all other companies see little reason to take a chance on something new. The clone machine is just gonne keep pumping out more and more games like it until the market is flooded. We have a future of elves and dwarves..joy
  • LignerLigner Member Posts: 59
    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by Ligner

    I agree and disagree. Games of today simply not aiming to attract different type of players for complication of balance (as you said) and prefer to target specific market instead. However I strongly believe that if developers would do their homework right they would be able to satisfy oppositions and tie both ends together.



    I'll use grouping as example since you have already mentioned it. Such game mechanics as questing and combat can be done in such way that it will attract solo and groups activities. Lets say hunting area is designed for characters around level 20 and can be done solo with a bit of challenge. Now in order to make it enjoyable for the group to hunt in the same area gameplay may employ such concept where players of the same hunting party receive appropriate bonuses such can be extra xp (instead of sharing 50/50% with the partner it could be 75/75 or 70/70/70 for the group of 3 members or 65/65/65/65 for the group of 4 and so on). That system has been employed in one of the pioneer MMO Asheron's Call and worked great.



    Lets see how it could work in the game we all know (yes WoW):

    You're first level and has been given a task in Northshire to kill 10 Cobolts. While you can complete that task easily on your own you can choose to form a party and enjoy extra xp. Besides that would make it possible to eliminate frustration of hunting at the same spot with many people when trying to get a kill while not letting others to still yours.



    Almost any issue has its answer in the history of MMOs. The trouble is that at the end of the day it comes to the "guy on top" who has bucks, but not the desire to build "proper" product. There is plenty of answers to how unite PvP and PvE players under one roof, make decent crafting system, help players to establish strong guilds, create game world where players would roleplay naturally rather then creating special "reservations"  called RP servers and etc, etc, etc.d




    Ligner
    I'd be agreeable to that system, however I dont feel it would provide to group-centric players.



    In a game design for soloplay, the number of solo players directly outweighs that of group-centrics use WoW as an example. The result, is that it takes longer to form groups. Of course other elements pay into this like centralization of quests/missions, Guild Wars does this very well. But the fact remains and crosses over, when the game is designed for group play, soloers will not enjoy the game so much becuase they are forced into grouping BUT, you will be able to find groups.



    Most games try to cater for both, thats where I feel they go wrong. There is room for solo play in a MMO but it should heavily outweigh group play. Of course, that is IMO.

    Well as I said it DID worked in the past mate. Thing is that you are not forced to group but rather encouraged by having more bonuses. Now lets say you are total fan of solo and came to the good hunting spot. Next thing you see is that someone else is camping it. Would you try to still his kills or simply offer to form a party AND actually make more xp? Besides you dont even need to fight same mobs. You still should be getting xp from other member's of the group kills because (and this is big part of it) you are getting party experience without actually hitting the mob. That means you can still enjoy solo hunting while being in the group and eventually killing stronger monsters together. That way you will form up parties right on the spot without yelling for an hour "LFG!". You can also break down a big party of 10-20 players on to 2-3 and hunt at different spots but still get the xp bonus, which means more kills, more players in the group more xp bonus. How about double the amount if done correctly? Do you think that people would avoid that? Nah man, those who used to be sworn solo fighters will gladly join a party on those conditions.

    Its easy done in the encouraging way rather then restrictive. Penalization is a big part of games of today and I strongly believe that game mechanics should be balanced by benefits and choice.



    Ligner

    image
    _________________________________
    Played:
    AC, AC2, UO, AO, EQ, EQ2, Shadowbane, DAoC, Horisons, SWG, EVE, L2, GW, WoW, DDO, LotRO
    Beta tested:
    AC, AC2, EQ2, SWG, Horisons, WoW, Archlord, LotRO, Espado Granada, Vanguard
    Currently playing: AoC

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