Grind=Content?

Thisgamesux · February 2007

This is the formula for a "3rd generation MMORPG" and the "Game of the future"? Pretty sure I have seen that formula before. Sorry Sigil, nothing new here.

Vanguardlol · February 2007

Sorry nub, thats what makes Vanguard so difficult. It is THE hardest MMO on the market. You need a lot of skill to play this game. I suggest you go back to World of Warcraft.

random11 · February 2007

Originally posted by Vanguardlol

Sorry nub, thats what makes Vanguard so difficult. It is THE hardest MMO on the market. You need a lot of skill to play this game. I suggest you go back to World of Warcraft.

) Good joke, but you would be amazed at how many people consider it like that.

phobic · February 2007

In my opinion, the only way this is a 3rd gen MMO is because of the time frame it was released. As the OP said, nothing new here which is kind of sad because I wanted Vanguard to be THE game. Oh well.

Thisgamesux · February 2007

Originally posted by Vanguardlol

Sorry nub, thats what makes Vanguard so difficult. It is THE hardest MMO on the market. You need a lot of skill to play this game. I suggest you go back to World of Warcraft.

I hope you are kidding.

sepher · February 2007

Sigil tried hijacking the term "third-generation" and reap the most generic meaning of it, which was poising Vanguard in a time frame removed enough from WoW and such that it qualifies.

Of course anyone that hears next generation, new generation, whatever generation; expects a revolution of new things and innovation. Naturally so even in MMOs; the second generation brought us things like instancing, a surge of purchased intellectual properties and games from other genres being realized as MMOs.

Most importantly though, at the very foundation, each generation has to fix the problems of the last. Instancing fixed the semi-circle camping around spawn points of 1st gen games for example. Vanguard RETURNED it and many more annoyances.

Games like Warhammer Online I expect to really show off what third-generation can be. With things like the public quest system correcting the whole run in straight lines from NPC to NPC and camp to camp commanded by quest icons and logs.

But Sigil...quite honestly I think they were way more interested in reliving 1st gen days than they were adapting to the industry as it is now. Like a bunch of nostalgic adults wanting to play highschool football again and do it right this time, so they created a premise where they could, except they called it the NFL and tried to sell tickets.

There's a fanbase for those who want to relive 1st gen all over again and consider all of it's problems and short-sights as 'features', but come on, no one is going to buy the third-gen thing, not with Conan and Warhammer on the heels of Vanguard's release.

SpectralHunter · February 2007

Originally posted by sepher

Sigil tried hijacking the term "third-generation" and reap the most generic meaning of it, which was poising Vanguard in a time frame removed enough from WoW and such that it qualifies.

Of course anyone that hears next generation, new generation, whatever generation; expects a revolution of new things and innovation. Naturally so even in MMOs; the second generation brought us things like instancing, a surge of purchased intellectual properties and games from other genres being realized as MMOs.

Most importantly though, at the very foundation, each generation has to fix the problems of the last. Instancing fixed the semi-circle camping around spawn points of 1st gen games for example. Vanguard RETURNED it and many more annoyances.

Games like Warhammer Online I expect to really show off what third-generation can be. With things like the public quest system correcting the whole run in straight lines from NPC to NPC and camp to camp commanded by quest icons and logs.

But Sigil...quite honestly I think they were way more interested in reliving 1st gen days than they were adapting to the industry as it is now. Like a bunch of nostalgic adults wanting to play highschool football again and do it right this time, so they created a premise where they could, except they called it the NFL and tried to sell tickets.

There's a fanbase for those who want to relive 1st gen all over again and consider all of it's problems and short-sights as 'features', but come on, no one is going to buy the third-gen thing, not with Conan and Warhammer on the heels of Vanguard's release.

I agree.

And the thing about reliving the old days... You think it's a good idea but once you do go back to relive the past, you realize how lacking it is. The past was good, in the past. With what we know now, trying to live the past is an exercise in futility.

SmurfMagic · February 2007

ive got some bumps on the bottom of my toes, ive itched them and now my fingers smell like feet.

I guess my feet are smelly.

This example is about how I feel for Vanguard.

Saga of some itchy bumps and smelly feet.

Put that into perspective and there ya have it.

FreddyNoNose · February 2007

Originally posted by Vanguardlol

Sorry nub, thats what makes Vanguard so difficult. It is THE hardest MMO on the market. You need a lot of skill to play this game. I suggest you go back to World of Warcraft.

Lets get one thing straight. This is not a game which requires a lot of skill. At best, this is a myth but I feel it is a lie. I am imagining that you are playing the game and praising yourself for all your skill. You need some real life challenges.

matraque · February 2007

Originally posted by Thisgamesux

This is the formula for a "3rd generation MMORPG" and the "Game of the future"? Pretty sure I have seen that formula before. Sorry Sigil, nothing new here.

If you are trying to say that it's a grind. Yes, it is like WoW and all the others. I have no idea how they are gonna get rid of the grind.

It might look more then a grind because ATM, not all content is in place. You can acheive level cap apparently, but you will have to do nasty grind on critters.

joereed1 · February 2007

I agree, although I don't dislike the game, for a game that is supposed to have looked at the "2nd gen" games and solved the problems, it comes up really lacking.

For example, I've got a level 11 character and all my quests are going to require me to be at least level 12. Great! So i'm back to grinding mobs to gain a level so I can do the next quest, like I did with City of Heroes, and various other older MMO's.

Diplomacy is great, I really like this feature but sadly I'm forced to parley with the same NPC's a huge number of times to gain levels. Is that realy fun? I don't think so.

Crafting is similar, I have to make a ton of pointless items to level up and each one takes a fair amount of time to produce. They've tried to insert some skill into the process, but once you know what you're doing it's basicly that same thing over and over.

Yes it's hard alright, hard to stay awake while you repeat the same things over and over in order to make any progress.

Added to which, on the PVP servers, the enemy can walk straight into the main town and slay all the occupants practically without the guards batting an eyelid. There is no attempt to discourage high level players from just butchering every low level player that crosses their path if they wish.

matraque · February 2007

Originally posted by joereed1

I agree, although I don't dislike the game, for a game that is supposed to have looked at the "2nd gen" games and solved the problems, it comes up really lacking.
For example, I've got a level 11 character and all my quests are going to require me to be at least level 12. Great! So i'm back to grinding mobs to gain a level so I can do the next quest, like I did with City of Heroes, and various other older MMO's.

Get a group and do the lvl 12 quests. Or i suggest you look for a guild that fits your style of play.

joereed1 · February 2007

Originally posted by matraque

Originally posted by joereed1

I agree, although I don't dislike the game, for a game that is supposed to have looked at the "2nd gen" games and solved the problems, it comes up really lacking.
For example, I've got a level 11 character and all my quests are going to require me to be at least level 12. Great! So i'm back to grinding mobs to gain a level so I can do the next quest, like I did with City of Heroes, and various other older MMO's.

Get a group and do the lvl 12 quests. Or i suggest you look for a guild that fits your style of play.

In a few quests time I'm gonna be getting a group to do the level 14 quests I've got with my level 11 character. There's no excuse for an MMO not to have enough quests at all the levels.

matraque · February 2007

Originally posted by joereed1

Originally posted by matraque

Originally posted by joereed1

I agree, although I don't dislike the game, for a game that is supposed to have looked at the "2nd gen" games and solved the problems, it comes up really lacking.
For example, I've got a level 11 character and all my quests are going to require me to be at least level 12. Great! So i'm back to grinding mobs to gain a level so I can do the next quest, like I did with City of Heroes, and various other older MMO's.

Get a group and do the lvl 12 quests. Or i suggest you look for a guild that fits your style of play.

In a few quests time I'm gonna be getting a group to do the level 14 quests I've got with my level 11 character. There's no excuse for an MMO not to have enough quests at all the levels.

I'm lvl 15 and have always grouped so i don't know... I never got short on quest and never grinded. You can also do some missives if you can't do quests. Where are you located?

TommyKHart · February 2007

You're just not looking. For every two races theres a different starting area so if you wanted to travel a bit you could find 50 more quests for you to do. Now you might be thinking 'why should i travel to get my quests?' well the simple fact is this is a game and having everything given to you is not challanging or exciting.

Now you're probally thinking 'I just want to relax while playing a mmo, i dont want a challange after a hard days work'. If you want relax, then relax stop trying to win.

joereed1 · February 2007

Originally posted by matraque

Originally posted by joereed1

Originally posted by matraque

Originally posted by joereed1

I agree, although I don't dislike the game, for a game that is supposed to have looked at the "2nd gen" games and solved the problems, it comes up really lacking.
For example, I've got a level 11 character and all my quests are going to require me to be at least level 12. Great! So i'm back to grinding mobs to gain a level so I can do the next quest, like I did with City of Heroes, and various other older MMO's.

Get a group and do the lvl 12 quests. Or i suggest you look for a guild that fits your style of play.

In a few quests time I'm gonna be getting a group to do the level 14 quests I've got with my level 11 character. There's no excuse for an MMO not to have enough quests at all the levels.

I'm lvl 15 and have always grouped so i don't know... I never got short on quest and never grinded. You can also do some missives if you can't do quests. Where are you located?My character is a Vulmane, I forget the name of the area.

matraque · February 2007

Originally posted by joereed1

Originally posted by matraque

Originally posted by joereed1

Originally posted by matraque

Originally posted by joereed1

I agree, although I don't dislike the game, for a game that is supposed to have looked at the "2nd gen" games and solved the problems, it comes up really lacking.
For example, I've got a level 11 character and all my quests are going to require me to be at least level 12. Great! So i'm back to grinding mobs to gain a level so I can do the next quest, like I did with City of Heroes, and various other older MMO's.

Get a group and do the lvl 12 quests. Or i suggest you look for a guild that fits your style of play.

In a few quests time I'm gonna be getting a group to do the level 14 quests I've got with my level 11 character. There's no excuse for an MMO not to have enough quests at all the levels.

I'm lvl 15 and have always grouped so i don't know... I never got short on quest and never grinded. You can also do some missives if you can't do quests. Where are you located?My character is a Vulmane, I forget the name of the area.

Then you should have NO problem finding quest. There are TONS of em on Qualia. Go to the beacons (north and south), docks... basically, follow the quests you are doing and they will let you know where to go next.

Lidane · February 2007

Originally posted by joereed1

For example, I've got a level 11 character and all my quests are going to require me to be at least level 12. Great! So i'm back to grinding mobs to gain a level so I can do the next quest, like I did with City of Heroes, and various other older MMO's.

City of Heroes now has a mechanic in place to address that. For heroes, you get a police band, and on the villain side you get a newspaper. They each assign random missions to your characters, so if you finish all your contacts and can't get anything else until the next level, you've still got something to do.

After a certain number of these random missions, your contact (either a police detective or broker, respectively) will offer you either a Safeguard (hero) or Mayhem (villain) mission. The neat thing about those is that there's incentive to do them, since completing each different one will give a different temporary power or effect. At the low levels, it's especially valuable, since the two lowest missions offer either a jet pack or a super jump pack to make getting around easier until you get your actual travel power.

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