titan HAVE to die on some BIG f**king epic battle whit alot of capitals
then CCP can make a permanent wreck and hole eve community will clap that
the titan will be rebuild some ppl will send money to D2, BoB lose hes honor and cant get hes honor back
Yeh, this is currently impossible to achieve. So what do BoB do? They figure out a way to get it legally, this isn't exploitation this is just smart tactics. Albeit dirty, dirty, dirty tactics but still smart nontheless.
BoB bashing atm is ridiculous, everyone wants a scapegoat.
(I am not, have never been in, and will never join BoB, and don't even know anyone in the alliance. If I had the chance I'd fight them, but you've got to respect them)
Bob figured it out huh... or did they get some help figuring it out from one of their Dev's?
Seems they have an uncanny knack of figuring ways around game mechanics.
Oof, thats paranoia if ever I've heard it. This was fairly common knowedge that it was possible for quite a while now, just is rarely used because as rollindutch pointed out, its hard and messy to try and pull off. Usually fairly pointless to even attempt.
Bob figured it out huh... or did they get some help figuring it out from one of their Dev's?
Seems they have an uncanny knack of figuring ways around game mechanics.
Oof, thats paranoia if ever I've heard it. This was fairly common knowedge that it was possible for quite a while now, just is rarely used because as rollindutch pointed out, its hard and messy to try and pull off. Usually fairly pointless to even attempt.
Paranoia maybe, but like you say, nobody does this because it's so hard and messy to pull of, but some groups do it with ease....
But, at the moment of logging off, did the titan pilot have an aggro timer set on, or he didn't have any aggro timer on the screen? If he didn't have an aggro timer on the screen, then the ship should be reimbursed and the exploiters (bob) banned, or the game will go down down. If he did see the aggro timer and logged off, then good fight (though stupid way to lose a titan, like ascn's) and this thread is useless
There is no visible aggro timer for people in 0.0.
This is honestly getting stupid - easily half the people in this thread have a clear lack of basic game mechanics knowledge and no relevant experience in territorial wars. Nevertheless, they're damn sure that SOMEONE is breaking the rules based on a forum thread they totally read somewhere written by someone else with no firsthand knowledge who got the story from some guy spinning for his alliance.
Its an idiot circlejerk. If you must be stupid, please do it quietly. Noone likes a loud moron.
Originally posted by DedGuy
(I am not, have never been in, and will never join BoB, and don't even know anyone in the alliance. If I had the chance I'd fight them, but you've got to respect them)
(I am not, have never been in, and will never join BoB, and don't even know anyone in the alliance. If I had the chance I'd fight them, but you've got to respect them)
I think I remember you from UNICOR.
Lol, you're right. You have a very long memory seeing as how I quit using eve-DedGuy very soon after that. I was a core Millennium member back then but moved onto "other things" after the GNW with alts and stuff due to RL commitments.
That goes back a long way, if I remember correctly you were [EVER] which means you're entitled to dislike me because I was one of those trying to point out the fact that they were ruining the alliance. . But lets leave the history lesson to another thread.
Lol, you're right. You have a very long memory seeing as how I quit using eve-DedGuy very soon after that. I was a core Millennium member back then but moved onto "other things" after the GNW with alts and stuff due to RL commitments. That goes back a long way, if I remember correctly you were [EVER] which means you're entitled to dislike me because I was one of those trying to point out the fact that they were ruining the alliance. . But lets leave the history lesson to another thread.
Meh, I was EVER but I left before the end of the war (to Soldiers of Anarchy, incidentally) because EVER was a bunch of douchebags after Synapse + crew left. The alliance sucked in general, EVER wasn't really any better or worse then the rest (aside from Phantom Squad & MLM).
Being against BoB in this war going on, it sucks to have an ally titan lost, however, I don't call exploit on this. BoB is a clever, talented alliance and I say good job.
Let's see. Two titans have been destroyed by BoB, neither could put up a fight. Oh yeah, thats what was intended for the game mechanics in EVE. I say... lame. BoB has become the king of lame in EVE.
Let's see. Two titans have been destroyed by BoB, neither could put up a fight. Oh yeah, thats what was intended for the game mechanics in EVE. I say... lame. BoB has become the king of lame in EVE.
Actually 3 have been destroyed. None of them had a pilot in it.
LV lost theirs which was days away from being finished. Rumor has it that the bpo was destroyed as well, which makes it even more isk loss.
As ex BoB member, I learned how the aggro timer is working on ships at log out from a friend in there.
Let's assume that the titan wasn't in pos. (If it was it's exploit and you cannot hit anyone inside it's shield).
First of all when you log out of EVE you ship is warping into infinity.
Second the capital ships are very slow to warp
Third, when you have aggro and log out you receive a message you cannot dismiss.
Fourth, when you have someone on your buddy list, you will see them logging out and their ship will be for few seconds still in game (warping out). I have seeing it dozens of times even with faster ships like Assault Frigates.
Now, the Anathema should be close to the Titan. When he saw the pilot off (getting the warning that he is off), he has couple of seconds to aggro the titan and keep it "ingame". It takes a lot of practise to execute it precise, and I believe they were trying for many days now this tactic near the titan. It needs only ones to make it happen.
Imho no matter what, it's lame tactic and only (*swearing*) do such things. It ain't worth carry on paying subscriptions under such conditions. After all the GM was there, he saw what happened and he congratulate BoB. Now this leave us with a lot of questions.
As ex BoB member, I learned how the aggro timer is working on ships at log out from a friend in there.
Let's assume that the titan wasn't in pos. (If it was it's exploit and you cannot hit anyone inside it's shield).
First of all when you log out of EVE you ship is warping into infinity.
Second the capital ships are very slow to warp
Third, when you have aggro and log out you receive a message you cannot dismiss.
Fourth, when you have someone on your buddy list, you will see them logging out and their ship will be for few seconds still in game (warping out). I have seeing it dozens of times even with faster ships like Assault Frigates.
Now, the Anathema should be close to the Titan. When he saw the pilot off (getting the warning that he is off), he has couple of seconds to aggro the titan and keep it "ingame". It takes a lot of practise to execute it precise, and I believe they were trying for many days now this tactic near the titan. It needs only ones to make it happen.
Imho no matter what, it's lame tactic and only (*swearing*) do such things. It ain't worth carry on paying subscriptions under such conditions. After all the GM was there, he saw what happened and he congratulate BoB. Now this leave us with a lot of questions.
I guess you didn't follow this thread or the thread on the CAOD forum.. there is a screen shot of the titan in question OUTSIDE the POS being hit by the micro smart bomb.. No exploit just lame tactics through a well executed plan, nothing more nothing less..
And you don't warp out to infinity.. you warp to 1 million km from your starting position .. also there are no aggro timers in 0.0. Also something you kinda missed.. is that since the AAA snf RA/hackfleet little exploits of the log off timer and the creating aggro from shooting NPC wrecks.. a few things was changed.
Now if you log off in space with no aggro timer.. you ship remains in warp for 30 seconds. This was to counter act the recon probe launcher short scan time. Creating aggro from shooting wrecks has been classed as a major exploit.. and has harsh penalties for those caught doing it (and since the database logs such actions.. there is no escape from the punishment.)
Something else you missed is that the moment you log off, and someone attacks you before your ship warps, you no longer recive an aggro timer .. plus the screen shot show the titan pilot clearly online... How did he miss the hit notification.. well it turns out he had them turned off after spending the day at the frontline, to help reduce lag (something a lot of cap ship pilots do when fighting near and around POS's.
As for the crap about a GM being in local.. Again, do some research.. it was a database dev, and he was marking the site of the wreck (again... read the various posts of the CAOD froum at eve-o.. as there area number of screen shots of the dev taliing in local.. including a screen with his characters profile up). as Titan wrecks are becoming a tourist attraction. Nothing more nothing less so put away the tin foil hat even though now I expect the trolls to run around T20 was a database dev.. ooo must of been him.. however I might just point out.. that the chances are T20 is keeping a very low profile as he is more then likely being watched like a hawk.
Also you didn't know about the aggro timer till someone told you then you kinda missed all the dev blogs and the forum posts talking about the aggro timer, when it was being introduced.. Its not something that was a special secret that only bob knew about. I think pretty much everyone with even half a clue knew and understood the aggro timer..
Ok, let's clear something up. There's no indication whatsoever in 0.0 about any aggro timer. BoB went great distances to make sure the titan pilot won't pay any attention to damage (it was a micro smart bomb). He probably couldn't see the Anathema ship simply because you filter out friendlies on overview. He could be at his log out screen when this happened and couldn't see anything at all, except settings buttons. Damage messages are often turned off to reduce lag in fleet battles. It's not players fault that CCP servers can't handle fleet battles and ppl have to madly tweak their clients to keep Eve at least barely playable. The claim that he had to check logs before logging is ridiculous. You have some RL staff, you can't play atm, you were not agressed for 20 min, you log off. You have every right to expect that some scumbag won't be able to abuse the game mechanics and kill your ship offline, when you are logging off in a NON-COMBAT situation.
To the claim that everyone must read dev blogs, patch changes etc, etc. It may be surprise to some BoB members and their fanboys, but some ppl actually have a life. Some ppl can't sit in front of the PC and play Eve for 8 hours a day and then spend another 5 hours reading and analyzing dev blogs. After all, I think that someone formulated it quite well on eve-o: "Those who have life will have to go and play WoW, those who live to win in video games will stay in Eve". I can tell you, it's so true. I left Eve when my RL schedule become too tight to allow me to play, and for some time I was starting to feel that Eve is becoming my 2-nd job, that I have to log and do some things, you know what? RL won, I prefer to make a good career in RL than to make a glorious career in Eve, I guess some ppl in Eve have other priorities.
That is a logical error in the game mechanics, a ship that is shot at without returning fire should never have an aggro disadvantage from it. Fix it, CCP...
So in other words anyone who gets shot should be able to log no problem. I'm not saying that is the stupidest thing ever written, I'm just saying that its the stupidest thing written this year.
You know why titans keep dying after logging/in construction? Because that is the only possible way to kill them. This needs another solution. I'm not saying the current one is the most stupid ever written, but I'm saying it is the most stupid one I've encountered this vear
You could have something like warp scrambling blocking the automatic warp away and despawning (does the latter happen? never observed it) of the logging pilot.
This way, you can keep people from saving their ship by logging off. And if you cannot kill an un-piloted ship in the 15 minutes since it last fired at you, you don't deserve to pull it off anyway
Ok, let's clear something up. There's no indication whatsoever in 0.0 about any aggro timer. BoB went great distances to make sure the titan pilot won't pay any attention to damage (it was a micro smart bomb). He probably couldn't see the Anathema ship simply because you filter out friendlies on overview. He could be at his log out screen when this happened and couldn't see anything at all, except settings buttons. Damage messages are often turned off to reduce lag in fleet battles. It's not players fault that CCP servers can't handle fleet battles and ppl have to madly tweak their clients to keep Eve at least barely playable. The claim that he had to check logs before logging is ridiculous. You have some RL staff, you can't play atm, you were not agressed for 20 min, you log off. You have every right to expect that some scumbag won't be able to abuse the game mechanics and kill your ship offline, when you are logging off in a NON-COMBAT situation.
To the claim that everyone must read dev blogs, patch changes etc, etc. It may be surprise to some BoB members and their fanboys, but some ppl actually have a life. Some ppl can't sit in front of the PC and play Eve for 8 hours a day and then spend another 5 hours reading and analyzing dev blogs. After all, I think that someone formulated it quite well on eve-o: "Those who have life will have to go and play WoW, those who live to win in video games will stay in Eve". I can tell you, it's so true. I left Eve when my RL schedule become too tight to allow me to play, and for some time I was starting to feel that Eve is becoming my 2-nd job, that I have to log and do some things, you know what? RL won, I prefer to make a good career in RL than to make a glorious career in Eve, I guess some ppl in Eve have other priorities.
Pssst... WoW isn't for casual players, if you wish to remain competitive... Only an idiot or a troll would come forward and spout that rubbish. So which are you?
And to whine on about players having to read Dev blogs, or patch note.. let alone visit the forums where so much information about the game and its mechanics can be gathered is too much hard work falls into the idiot or the troll area.. so again which are you?
Now as for being a BoB fanboy.. nope.. BoB destroyed my aliiance.. ASCN.. So i have as much if not more dislike for them then many of the clueless parts that post here, whith their tinfoil hattery and their "WHAA WHAAA BoB are cheaters coz they killed me.." to the red expolters and hackfleet fangirls, who want to kiss the ring of a scumbag hacker. But I don't.. why, because unlike them I have seen how they fight in game, and they are some of the best players around.
With the state of things in game at the moment, I honestly hope the kick the crap out of red expoliters, hackfleet and their pets.. And its a shame that people have selective memories and short term memories.. Or they would remember why hackfleet was the most hated alliance in the game, and what red exploiters was up to .. after all how many alliances have had an entire corp banned in game for exploiting?
This needs another solution. I'm not saying the current one is the most stupid ever written, but I'm saying it is the most stupid one I've encountered this vear
You could have something like warp scrambling blocking the automatic warp away and despawning (does the latter happen? never observed it) of the logging pilot.
This way, you can keep people from saving their ship by logging off. And if you cannot kill an un-piloted ship in the 15 minutes since it last fired at you, you don't deserve to pull it off anyway
Well you can't warp scramble a Titan or mothership period. You have to catch them in a bubble. Standard tactic is to include a Officer smart bomb on the titan which can destroy any interdictor dropped bubble that would be in range to kill it. and mobile warp bubbles take close to 10minutes to online so its difficult to place one in anything less than a predetermined trap and those are usually at gates where a Titan never needs to go.
Don't know if shooting a logged off player resets his aggrotimer as well all the ship's I have killed this way have not been large enough to last 15min.
Over all sadly this is one of the only ways to really kill a mothership due to the EWAR immunity. Its been brought up numerous times that the only way to reliable kill a titan is through either a stupid player mistake or doing something a little underhanded. Titan's need a serious rededign IMO including a reduction in the damage done for a remote Doomsday activation to encourage pilots to put thier titans on the front line.
Itsmee, I was in ASCN too when the alliance was destroyed by BoB. I dislike BoB not because they killed ASCN. I saw how ASCN fought and tbh, ASCN didn't deserve to win the war. I dislike BoB as alliance because they are a bunch of arrogant metagamers. They are the symbol of metagaming in Eve, they are the guys that constantly try to "stretch the boundaries". They stretched and stretched until no boundaries were left between Eve and RL. They are the ones that said they will do EVERYTHING to win in Eve. They don't play this game to enjoy, they play the game to win. Their attitude causes other players to use the same tricks or face annihilation. The Dev who spawned the BPOs did it for BoB, not for Goons, not for RA. The Dev said he's RKK forever, and RKK is not some Russian corp, its BoB corp. And look at the whole picture, the BPOs were left in BoB posession even after CCP learned that they were just created by the Dev. When they were removed? When the story became public. So, you have to wonder, if the Dev risked that much by creating BPOs, an act that he probably knew, will be easily traced, what else he had done that could not be possibly traced. If he was ready to risk that much to get on BoB board, how much of untraceable info was leaked? And after all that, knowing that they have a Dev, feeding them insider knowledge, BoB come to the rest of Eve and tell everyone - BOOOO, you suck, we are BoB and we are l337. They are proud of their underhanded tactics, they are proud of their spies, they are proud of penetrating your forums, they are proud of smacking your leaders non stop, yet you come and defend them and tell how good they are. You actually call all RA sploiters, while you'd probably be outraged when someone would call all BoB cheaters. All Goons are hackers? And you know why Goons were the most hated alliance some time ago? Because BoB did a damn good black PR campaign against them. They used 1 bad joke from Goons PRIVATE forum, which even wasn't intended for BoBs eyes and painted all Goons in black. But you know what, there's no Goons... at least BoB were trying to make us all believe that.
As to Eve, I left when I understood that I don't have enough time to commit, and in Eve you need to commit tremendous amounts of time. I never vsited forums? Just lol about that. But I play games to relax and have fun. I don't play them to analyze economy for hours or to try and comprehend how such and such little tweak, barely mentioned in a Dev blog could be exploited to give me some advantage. If you need to do all this to be good in Eve, I'm glad that I left.
This needs another solution. I'm not saying the current one is the most stupid ever written, but I'm saying it is the most stupid one I've encountered this vear
You could have something like warp scrambling blocking the automatic warp away and despawning (does the latter happen? never observed it) of the logging pilot.
This way, you can keep people from saving their ship by logging off. And if you cannot kill an un-piloted ship in the 15 minutes since it last fired at you, you don't deserve to pull it off anyway
Well you can't warp scramble a Titan or mothership period. You have to catch them in a bubble. Standard tactic is to include a Officer smart bomb on the titan which can destroy any interdictor dropped bubble that would be in range to kill it. and mobile warp bubbles take close to 10minutes to online so its difficult to place one in anything less than a predetermined trap and those are usually at gates where a Titan never needs to go.
Don't know if shooting a logged off player resets his aggrotimer as well all the ship's I have killed this way have not been large enough to last 15min.
Over all sadly this is one of the only ways to really kill a mothership due to the EWAR immunity. Its been brought up numerous times that the only way to reliable kill a titan is through either a stupid player mistake or doing something a little underhanded. Titan's need a serious rededign IMO including a reduction in the damage done for a remote Doomsday activation to encourage pilots to put thier titans on the front line.
Nice summary, thanks. I think immunity against warp scramble has to go, without that Titans could be forced to fight it out. If CCP wants to make it hard, the Titan could get a bonus to warp core stability like some T2 industrials.
EWAR immunity in other areas is OK, in fact I think a ship of that value should not have its weapons blocked by a few frigs with targeting disruptors.
In EVE, sadly, most people don´t play for fun but only to win... no respect, no honour. Wars get decided mostly in borderline gameplay, like having two of the biggest ships ingame destroyed AFTER the player owning logged out.
Combine this with a missing loggout timer and no game manual....
The spy was a BoB member, who had made a new character to join D2. He gained the trust of it's members and gained access to intel - He did not hack his way to anything. As far as D2 is concerned, he was simply a member of their alliance.
With this character, he stayed near the titan. When hearing he was logging of some time in advance, he made his way there, and noticed the titan was outside the POS shield. He aggroed using the smartbomb, which triggered the 15 minute timer.
The BoB capital fleet, who had been warned of this, had been waiting in the system next door to move in. The rest is history.
Itsmee, I was in ASCN too when the alliance was destroyed by BoB. I dislike BoB not because they killed ASCN. I saw how ASCN fought and tbh, ASCN didn't deserve to win the war. I dislike BoB as alliance because they are a bunch of arrogant metagamers. They are the symbol of metagaming in Eve, they are the guys that constantly try to "stretch the boundaries". They stretched and stretched until no boundaries were left between Eve and RL. They are the ones that said they will do EVERYTHING to win in Eve. They don't play this game to enjoy, they play the game to win. Their attitude causes other players to use the same tricks or face annihilation. The Dev who spawned the BPOs did it for BoB, not for Goons, not for RA. The Dev said he's RKK forever, and RKK is not some Russian corp, its BoB corp. And look at the whole picture, the BPOs were left in BoB posession even after CCP learned that they were just created by the Dev. When they were removed? When the story became public. So, you have to wonder, if the Dev risked that much by creating BPOs, an act that he probably knew, will be easily traced, what else he had done that could not be possibly traced. If he was ready to risk that much to get on BoB board, how much of untraceable info was leaked? And after all that, knowing that they have a Dev, feeding them insider knowledge, BoB come to the rest of Eve and tell everyone - BOOOO, you suck, we are BoB and we are l337. They are proud of their underhanded tactics, they are proud of their spies, they are proud of penetrating your forums, they are proud of smacking your leaders non stop, yet you come and defend them and tell how good they are. You actually call all RA sploiters, while you'd probably be outraged when someone would call all BoB cheaters. All Goons are hackers? And you know why Goons were the most hated alliance some time ago? Because BoB did a damn good black PR campaign against them. They used 1 bad joke from Goons PRIVATE forum, which even wasn't intended for BoBs eyes and painted all Goons in black. But you know what, there's no Goons... at least BoB were trying to make us all believe that.
As to Eve, I left when I understood that I don't have enough time to commit, and in Eve you need to commit tremendous amounts of time. I never vsited forums? Just lol about that. But I play games to relax and have fun. I don't play them to analyze economy for hours or to try and comprehend how such and such little tweak, barely mentioned in a Dev blog could be exploited to give me some advantage. If you need to do all this to be good in Eve, I'm glad that I left.
Just to address a few points..
Its easy to call bob a bunch of metagamers, when we in ASCN did the same thing, or did you forget that? We had our fair share of spys on their forums, their TS and so on. They maybe a bunch of arrogent bastards who use dirty tactics.. but so was we... the difference being that our leadership spent too much time sodding around, meaning that we missed almost every opertunity to use the intel. So don't even try to play that card.. I will freely admit that we (ASCN) tried to use as much metagaming as we could. If you didn't know that, then either you went around with your fingers in your ears, and your hands over your eyes. (that or you wasn't in ASCN.)
Also its been shown that both RA and GOONs are using just as much metagaming.. if not more, as recently stuff from the MC forums was posted on the eve-o forum.. and talking to a few of them, it turns out that someone hacked their fourms. And is still trying to gain forced entry.. something that they are having their servers host's security look into.
Next... RKK != BOB ... RKK = Member of BOB... Now i guess you brought that up to address my point of an entire corp being banned. Funny as the corp that was banned was RUS ... not RKK .. and they was banned for the complex exploit amongest other things. (thats not including the other 30 RA members that was banned at the same time..)
As for the whole Goon incident with smoksie ... Its runs a little bit deeper then that. I belive the motto of Something Awfuls GOONs are.. "Nice game... lets f*ck it up." .. or didn't you know that?
Now me being outraged at BoB being called cheaters.. we actually yes.. mainly the accusations are nothing but dibble by idiots who have jumped on the bandwagon. Lets take the first post about D2's titan kill... it was full of "Whaa bob cheated.. whaaa they used an exploit.. whaaa." when it turned out that they didn't and just used some dirty tactics. Was any apology given... of course not.. they just tried to keep up with calling bob cheats and such. I guess you forget the client hack that all GOON fleet members and allies was using. This was classed as an exp[loit and a cheat.. but due to the way it worked couldn't be stopped.. so to get round it.. CCP intergrated it to level the playing field.
So you acutally belive that BoB are the only ones metagaming and cheating?
But hey you say your gone.. so why the hell do you care?
I really shouldn't care, but I guess I played this game for too long to just turn it off and forget about it. It's a good game and it had a great potential, too bad it's being destroyed by "we'll do anything to win" attitude.
Of course I don't believe that BoB are the only ones who cheat or exploit, there are many others. Of course not only BoB uses dirty and underhanded tactics, but it seems that only BoB are proud of it. My former corpmates ships were killed inside POS bubble by BoB and the petitions were declined, when everyone and their dog knew that it's an old exploit. Of course no one was punished. Another case - my corp is at war with ATUK (it was FE/NBSI/PA vs ATUK war). The lag those days was even worse than now. The whole FE fleet gets stuck at some gate in Venal, which is mostly hostile region. FC files stuck petition. The wise GM disperses the whole fleet around Venal in small groups (there was no warp to 0 option) and removes all ammo (incl. loaded ammo) and drones from FE ships. Another case - FE is defeated and allied with ATUK. We are at war with G/IRON. They place a strategical POS in one of core FE systems, and the whole war is not going that great for FE. Guess what happens next? Event team spawns a crapload of Gurista Dreads and blasts G/IRON POS to dust. And you know, I was not that involved in alliance politics, so there's a lot of staff I never heard of. But, do you remember how it was when ASCN and BoB both have approx. 100 man fleets, both fleets are lagged to hell, node dies and while ASCN are slowly pouring one by one, BoB already have a gang of 20-30 at gate. Or how they were advising us to turn off everything (incl. dmg messages btw) to reduce lag, and on their screenshots and fraps their pilots' clients are shning like a Christmas tree? How do they do that? Are you 100% sure it's just some kind of luck, or may be coincidence? I'm not saying they've cheated, I'm just bringing some facts without any comment. Are you sure nothing illegal was done when you take into account that "everything to win" attitude?
Even that titan kill, while not legally an exploit, it's still an exploit. Aggro timer was clearly abused, and BoB were throughly preparing the situation when they could kill a logged off D2 titan by abusing an aggro timer. It's sad that this good game is going down the drain with this "we play to win" thing; eventually it'll come down to the situation where the alliance who cheats and abuses the game mechanics better wins. As you said, RA and Goons are not strangers to "stretching the boundaries", as well as BoB. And look, who are the strongest entities in Eve now? RA, Goons and BoB. Quite sad tbh.
Comments
titan HAVE to die on some BIG f**king epic battle whit alot of capitals
then CCP can make a permanent wreck and hole eve community will clap that
the titan will be rebuild some ppl will send money to D2, BoB lose hes honor and cant get hes honor back
BestSigEver :P
Yeh, this is currently impossible to achieve. So what do BoB do? They figure out a way to get it legally, this isn't exploitation this is just smart tactics. Albeit dirty, dirty, dirty tactics but still smart nontheless.
BoB bashing atm is ridiculous, everyone wants a scapegoat.
(I am not, have never been in, and will never join BoB, and don't even know anyone in the alliance. If I had the chance I'd fight them, but you've got to respect them)
Bob figured it out huh... or did they get some help figuring it out from one of their Dev's?
Seems they have an uncanny knack of figuring ways around game mechanics.
Oof, thats paranoia if ever I've heard it. This was fairly common knowedge that it was possible for quite a while now, just is rarely used because as rollindutch pointed out, its hard and messy to try and pull off. Usually fairly pointless to even attempt.
Oof, thats paranoia if ever I've heard it. This was fairly common knowedge that it was possible for quite a while now, just is rarely used because as rollindutch pointed out, its hard and messy to try and pull off. Usually fairly pointless to even attempt.
Paranoia maybe, but like you say, nobody does this because it's so hard and messy to pull of, but some groups do it with ease....
This is honestly getting stupid - easily half the people in this thread have a clear lack of basic game mechanics knowledge and no relevant experience in territorial wars. Nevertheless, they're damn sure that SOMEONE is breaking the rules based on a forum thread they totally read somewhere written by someone else with no firsthand knowledge who got the story from some guy spinning for his alliance.
Its an idiot circlejerk. If you must be stupid, please do it quietly. Noone likes a loud moron.
I think I remember you from UNICOR.
BoB played on the extreme abusing the game mechanic
what can happen all the ppl use that and the game play will be afected
BestSigEver :P
Lol, you're right. You have a very long memory seeing as how I quit using eve-DedGuy very soon after that. I was a core Millennium member back then but moved onto "other things" after the GNW with alts and stuff due to RL commitments.
That goes back a long way, if I remember correctly you were [EVER] which means you're entitled to dislike me because I was one of those trying to point out the fact that they were ruining the alliance.
. But lets leave the history lesson to another thread.
Let's see. Two titans have been destroyed by BoB, neither could put up a fight. Oh yeah, thats what was intended for the game mechanics in EVE. I say... lame. BoB has become the king of lame in EVE.
LV lost theirs which was days away from being finished. Rumor has it that the bpo was destroyed as well, which makes it even more isk loss.
Let's assume that the titan wasn't in pos. (If it was it's exploit and you cannot hit anyone inside it's shield).
First of all when you log out of EVE you ship is warping into infinity.
Second the capital ships are very slow to warp
Third, when you have aggro and log out you receive a message you cannot dismiss.
Fourth, when you have someone on your buddy list, you will see them logging out and their ship will be for few seconds still in game (warping out). I have seeing it dozens of times even with faster ships like Assault Frigates.
Now, the Anathema should be close to the Titan. When he saw the pilot off (getting the warning that he is off), he has couple of seconds to aggro the titan and keep it "ingame". It takes a lot of practise to execute it precise, and I believe they were trying for many days now this tactic near the titan. It needs only ones to make it happen.
Imho no matter what, it's lame tactic and only (*swearing*) do such things. It ain't worth carry on paying subscriptions under such conditions. After all the GM was there, he saw what happened and he congratulate BoB. Now this leave us with a lot of questions.
I guess you didn't follow this thread or the thread on the CAOD forum.. there is a screen shot of the titan in question OUTSIDE the POS being hit by the micro smart bomb.. No exploit just lame tactics through a well executed plan, nothing more nothing less..
And you don't warp out to infinity.. you warp to 1 million km from your starting position .. also there are no aggro timers in 0.0. Also something you kinda missed.. is that since the AAA snf RA/hackfleet little exploits of the log off timer and the creating aggro from shooting NPC wrecks.. a few things was changed.
Now if you log off in space with no aggro timer.. you ship remains in warp for 30 seconds. This was to counter act the recon probe launcher short scan time. Creating aggro from shooting wrecks has been classed as a major exploit.. and has harsh penalties for those caught doing it (and since the database logs such actions.. there is no escape from the punishment.)
Something else you missed is that the moment you log off, and someone attacks you before your ship warps, you no longer recive an aggro timer .. plus the screen shot show the titan pilot clearly online... How did he miss the hit notification.. well it turns out he had them turned off after spending the day at the frontline, to help reduce lag (something a lot of cap ship pilots do when fighting near and around POS's.
As for the crap about a GM being in local.. Again, do some research.. it was a database dev, and he was marking the site of the wreck (again... read the various posts of the CAOD froum at eve-o.. as there area number of screen shots of the dev taliing in local.. including a screen with his characters profile up). as Titan wrecks are becoming a tourist attraction. Nothing more nothing less so put away the tin foil hat even though now I expect the trolls to run around T20 was a database dev.. ooo must of been him.. however I might just point out.. that the chances are T20 is keeping a very low profile as he is more then likely being watched like a hawk.
Also you didn't know about the aggro timer till someone told you then you kinda missed all the dev blogs and the forum posts talking about the aggro timer, when it was being introduced.. Its not something that was a special secret that only bob knew about. I think pretty much everyone with even half a clue knew and understood the aggro timer..
Oh and can I have your stuff?
To the claim that everyone must read dev blogs, patch changes etc, etc. It may be surprise to some BoB members and their fanboys, but some ppl actually have a life. Some ppl can't sit in front of the PC and play Eve for 8 hours a day and then spend another 5 hours reading and analyzing dev blogs. After all, I think that someone formulated it quite well on eve-o: "Those who have life will have to go and play WoW, those who live to win in video games will stay in Eve". I can tell you, it's so true. I left Eve when my RL schedule become too tight to allow me to play, and for some time I was starting to feel that Eve is becoming my 2-nd job, that I have to log and do some things, you know what? RL won, I prefer to make a good career in RL than to make a glorious career in Eve, I guess some ppl in Eve have other priorities.
You know why titans keep dying after logging/in construction? Because that is the only possible way to kill them. This needs another solution. I'm not saying the current one is the most stupid ever written, but I'm saying it is the most stupid one I've encountered this vear
You could have something like warp scrambling blocking the automatic warp away and despawning (does the latter happen? never observed it) of the logging pilot.
This way, you can keep people from saving their ship by logging off. And if you cannot kill an un-piloted ship in the 15 minutes since it last fired at you, you don't deserve to pull it off anyway
Pssst... WoW isn't for casual players, if you wish to remain competitive... Only an idiot or a troll would come forward and spout that rubbish. So which are you?
And to whine on about players having to read Dev blogs, or patch note.. let alone visit the forums where so much information about the game and its mechanics can be gathered is too much hard work falls into the idiot or the troll area.. so again which are you?
Now as for being a BoB fanboy.. nope.. BoB destroyed my aliiance.. ASCN.. So i have as much if not more dislike for them then many of the clueless parts that post here, whith their tinfoil hattery and their "WHAA WHAAA BoB are cheaters coz they killed me.." to the red expolters and hackfleet fangirls, who want to kiss the ring of a scumbag hacker. But I don't.. why, because unlike them I have seen how they fight in game, and they are some of the best players around.
With the state of things in game at the moment, I honestly hope the kick the crap out of red expoliters, hackfleet and their pets.. And its a shame that people have selective memories and short term memories.. Or they would remember why hackfleet was the most hated alliance in the game, and what red exploiters was up to .. after all how many alliances have had an entire corp banned in game for exploiting?
Don't know if shooting a logged off player resets his aggrotimer as well all the ship's I have killed this way have not been large enough to last 15min.
Over all sadly this is one of the only ways to really kill a mothership due to the EWAR immunity. Its been brought up numerous times that the only way to reliable kill a titan is through either a stupid player mistake or doing something a little underhanded. Titan's need a serious rededign IMO including a reduction in the damage done for a remote Doomsday activation to encourage pilots to put thier titans on the front line.
As to Eve, I left when I understood that I don't have enough time to commit, and in Eve you need to commit tremendous amounts of time. I never vsited forums? Just lol about that. But I play games to relax and have fun. I don't play them to analyze economy for hours or to try and comprehend how such and such little tweak, barely mentioned in a Dev blog could be exploited to give me some advantage. If you need to do all this to be good in Eve, I'm glad that I left.
Don't know if shooting a logged off player resets his aggrotimer as well all the ship's I have killed this way have not been large enough to last 15min.
Over all sadly this is one of the only ways to really kill a mothership due to the EWAR immunity. Its been brought up numerous times that the only way to reliable kill a titan is through either a stupid player mistake or doing something a little underhanded. Titan's need a serious rededign IMO including a reduction in the damage done for a remote Doomsday activation to encourage pilots to put thier titans on the front line.
Nice summary, thanks. I think immunity against warp scramble has to go, without that Titans could be forced to fight it out. If CCP wants to make it hard, the Titan could get a bonus to warp core stability like some T2 industrials.
EWAR immunity in other areas is OK, in fact I think a ship of that value should not have its weapons blocked by a few frigs with targeting disruptors.
Combine this with a missing loggout timer and no game manual....
The spy was a BoB member, who had made a new character to join D2. He gained the trust of it's members and gained access to intel - He did not hack his way to anything. As far as D2 is concerned, he was simply a member of their alliance.
With this character, he stayed near the titan. When hearing he was logging of some time in advance, he made his way there, and noticed the titan was outside the POS shield. He aggroed using the smartbomb, which triggered the 15 minute timer.
The BoB capital fleet, who had been warned of this, had been waiting in the system next door to move in. The rest is history.
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Just to address a few points..
Its easy to call bob a bunch of metagamers, when we in ASCN did the same thing, or did you forget that? We had our fair share of spys on their forums, their TS and so on. They maybe a bunch of arrogent bastards who use dirty tactics.. but so was we... the difference being that our leadership spent too much time sodding around, meaning that we missed almost every opertunity to use the intel. So don't even try to play that card.. I will freely admit that we (ASCN) tried to use as much metagaming as we could. If you didn't know that, then either you went around with your fingers in your ears, and your hands over your eyes. (that or you wasn't in ASCN.)
Also its been shown that both RA and GOONs are using just as much metagaming.. if not more, as recently stuff from the MC forums was posted on the eve-o forum.. and talking to a few of them, it turns out that someone hacked their fourms. And is still trying to gain forced entry.. something that they are having their servers host's security look into.
Next... RKK != BOB ... RKK = Member of BOB... Now i guess you brought that up to address my point of an entire corp being banned. Funny as the corp that was banned was RUS ... not RKK .. and they was banned for the complex exploit amongest other things. (thats not including the other 30 RA members that was banned at the same time..)
As for the whole Goon incident with smoksie ... Its runs a little bit deeper then that. I belive the motto of Something Awfuls GOONs are.. "Nice game... lets f*ck it up." .. or didn't you know that?
Now me being outraged at BoB being called cheaters.. we actually yes.. mainly the accusations are nothing but dibble by idiots who have jumped on the bandwagon. Lets take the first post about D2's titan kill... it was full of "Whaa bob cheated.. whaaa they used an exploit.. whaaa." when it turned out that they didn't and just used some dirty tactics. Was any apology given... of course not.. they just tried to keep up with calling bob cheats and such. I guess you forget the client hack that all GOON fleet members and allies was using. This was classed as an exp[loit and a cheat.. but due to the way it worked couldn't be stopped.. so to get round it.. CCP intergrated it to level the playing field.
So you acutally belive that BoB are the only ones metagaming and cheating?
But hey you say your gone.. so why the hell do you care?
Of course I don't believe that BoB are the only ones who cheat or exploit, there are many others. Of course not only BoB uses dirty and underhanded tactics, but it seems that only BoB are proud of it. My former corpmates ships were killed inside POS bubble by BoB and the petitions were declined, when everyone and their dog knew that it's an old exploit. Of course no one was punished. Another case - my corp is at war with ATUK (it was FE/NBSI/PA vs ATUK war). The lag those days was even worse than now. The whole FE fleet gets stuck at some gate in Venal, which is mostly hostile region. FC files stuck petition. The wise GM disperses the whole fleet around Venal in small groups (there was no warp to 0 option) and removes all ammo (incl. loaded ammo) and drones from FE ships. Another case - FE is defeated and allied with ATUK. We are at war with G/IRON. They place a strategical POS in one of core FE systems, and the whole war is not going that great for FE. Guess what happens next? Event team spawns a crapload of Gurista Dreads and blasts G/IRON POS to dust. And you know, I was not that involved in alliance politics, so there's a lot of staff I never heard of. But, do you remember how it was when ASCN and BoB both have approx. 100 man fleets, both fleets are lagged to hell, node dies and while ASCN are slowly pouring one by one, BoB already have a gang of 20-30 at gate. Or how they were advising us to turn off everything (incl. dmg messages btw) to reduce lag, and on their screenshots and fraps their pilots' clients are shning like a Christmas tree? How do they do that? Are you 100% sure it's just some kind of luck, or may be coincidence? I'm not saying they've cheated, I'm just bringing some facts without any comment. Are you sure nothing illegal was done when you take into account that "everything to win" attitude?
Even that titan kill, while not legally an exploit, it's still an exploit. Aggro timer was clearly abused, and BoB were throughly preparing the situation when they could kill a logged off D2 titan by abusing an aggro timer. It's sad that this good game is going down the drain with this "we play to win" thing; eventually it'll come down to the situation where the alliance who cheats and abuses the game mechanics better wins. As you said, RA and Goons are not strangers to "stretching the boundaries", as well as BoB. And look, who are the strongest entities in Eve now? RA, Goons and BoB. Quite sad tbh.