Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
Is Matrix Online worth the buy?
Lullaby
Member Posts: 16
I am interested into becoming an MMO member. In the past, I have played various free MMORPGS and other pay MMORPGS including the Sims Online, Second Life and World of Warcraft. What makes this game great? Bad?
Any feedback is more than welcomed!
Any feedback is more than welcomed!
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
One of MxO's greatest selling points is how immersive it is.
I have not yet (since STO isn't out yet ;-)) found a game as completely... viscerally real as MxO -- no other game has ever given me the feel that I could really be where my character is.
For that aspect, nothing tops MxO.
If you're a WoW grinder, than yeah, MxO ain't the way to go.
If you're into exploring the world, reading mission texts to find out what's going on, making connections and critically thinking about the events in-world, MxO may be for you.
I stopped reading mission texts in WoW a long time ago.
In MxO they actually mean something, and relate to the live events taking place elsewhere.
Please do not make the mistake of spending all your time in missions. Like any other MMO, there are a finite number of mission zone maps (but a heck of a lot more variety than CoX has). Remember that at least half the game is taking place outside of missions.
Between collectors, Live Events, parties, weddings, rping, archives, and just plain hanging out with your fellow players, you could enjoy your entire time in game without ever taking a mission [far slower level progression, but just as fun].
Well... When I got this game it was awesome, But the problem was the server keeps crashing and there in ALOT of lag in the game. I feel ripped of by this game and I do NOT suggest it.
You know, I so like it when people talk in extremes. You're saying this because of how little content MxO has in comparison to some other games (as I've heard, not experienced myself), but you're forgetting that people might actually think this game has no content. You get it - no content. That's actually an imaginable scenario, in theory.
The standard missions are not only pretty much all the same, they are all the same because they're randomly generated and change between two or three boring variants.
And what the hell you're talking about - what martial arts combat system? Nothing was taken out, the combat and character development system were revised, from CR 1.0 ro CR 2.0 - that included several overhauls of gameplay, and some changes to animations (incl. removals and additions), but the martial arts haven't gone anywhere.
That's my point, yes
Revised, dumbed down, removed, whatever. The martial arts used to be fun, you had to counter the opponent and select what kind of attack to use for best effect. Now it's just to click a button over and over. Even though the combat still got martial arts animations and some pretty colours on the toolbar, it's hardly the same system as before.
That's my point, yes
Revised, dumbed down, removed, whatever. The martial arts used to be fun, you had to counter the opponent and select what kind of attack to use for best effect. Now it's just to click a button over and over. Even though the combat still got martial arts animations and some pretty colours on the toolbar, it's hardly the same system as before.
To each cinematic/subchapter, there are 15 missions (interacting with events, but that isn't static content I guess). We are currently in the 18th subchapter, and all released missions are archived as static content.
There are 51 mission contacts in the city, each with 5 missions.
There's also the Pandora's Box quest series - the mission number counts 10, but those can be challenging, are placed inbetween finding hidden collectors and defeating powerful waves of enemies within a time limit.
Then of course, you can bring up the less interesting/meaninful stuff like neighborhood collectors (not completely worthless, but pretty thin), and the gameplay stuff like access nodes, archive construct loots, Exile Hideouts (which are soon being enriched by a new loot) and the Zero One quest (which is by the way an alternative to standard mission levelling between level 40 and 50).
The new feature, the luggables, are developed and are going to be used for gameplay and story in some way in near future, confirmedly.
That's about the static gameplay content of The Matrix Online. Apart from that, there's textual story content for the interested ones, and live events (call them events or not, lol).
No please, don't start going on about how little this is in comparison to WoW. From all I've heard, WoW has much more, and that's not my point. I'm making the point that what you're saying, "this game has no content", is an extreme exaggeration, and thus just wrong.
An arguable point is the value of this content - to character development or other aspects of gameplay, or to story. That's a matter of preference, I'd say.
Now, the combat system - basically, you clicked buttons in CR 1.0, you click buttons in CR 2.0, that hasn't changed. Different tactics and styles still have different advantages and disadvantages.
You probably aren't terribly familiar with the new system, eh? And that's the observation of someone who has every reason to call himself a noob in the combat system himself. LOL.
I disagree, the world is empty and there is nothing to do. Not very immersive, but we each have an opinion.
I think this is rather a matter of the point of view than of opinion. You hardly perceive the game as immersive when running static content in this empty world; but if you're "actively" involved into live event, solve tasks there and conduct conversations with story characters, the immersion would certainly be there.
By "WoW grinder" he means, end game content and PVP content. MXO has neither. MXO is a very small world and can easily be explored, the city also looks the same almost everywhere you go. The story is no more indpeth than that in WoW or toher MMO's. He just likes it more but is trying to make it seem as if it's something other MO's don't have, he's being disingenuous.
Sorry if I don't just buy this like that. I've asked a few RL friends, and they said there was story and meaning to, you know, quests and stuff, but hardly an ongoing one - I mean, there are events and this sort of ongoing plot, but rather thin. Hey, that's what I've been told. Also when I asked somewhere on internet boards (ok, it was DN1).
((Qwirk, don't know what you wrote that had to be deleted, but let's not flame mmkay?)
To answer the OP: Definately.
*equips lv50 flame resistant trench and runs away*
But yeah, to more accurately represent my opinion:
To me at least the main focus of MxO, and it's true source of content and enjoyment, is it's storyline. First things first, this is not a backstory or lore that is static and you simply play in. MxO's story is a continuation, an episodic ever unfolding story. To me, thats what makes it interesting. It isn't like in other MMOs where the quests merely fleshes out the story (though there are those too in the form of static quests ala most mmos), in MxO the story is always evolving and pushing forward in a true chronological sense. Simply put Its like one big interactive TV series. A continuation of the movies. I feel if one is a fan of the storyline of the matrix, or just of the matrix universe in general, then that concept of a truely continuing story is enough to at the very least warrent a try for a month or two
*re-equips lv50 flame resistant trench and runs away*
Mainly I agree with the writing in red. perhaps apart from the immersive side, I did have several Matrix moments throughout the game. Telephone booths instead of portals. The green digity stuff when you log in. Running away from an agent as fast and hard as you can just like in the movies (coz he is level 50 and you are level 5). All good honest Matrixy flavoured immersion.
Like the post in red, I believe that this game has far less end game content than WoW, so if you thought that was a repetative grind, you are about to enter a whole new league in the no game content department. This is a really small world. The smallest I have seen in any MMO and smaller than many if not most offline RPG's too.
Matrix unlike WoW doesn't wait until you get to max level before it becomes a repetative grind. It's like that right from the word go. Rep grinding in WoW is more inspired than running missions in Matrix.
As for the plot, it's essentially non existant. But then the game is based on a special effects movie, so you shouldn't really expect too much from it. The story has meaning? No it doesn't and neither does The Terminator. Give your friend a good slap to wake him up. It's a flimsy premiss used to show off the latest generation of CGI.
Certain quests from certain quest givers have little text stories, much as you would find in every other game. Most of them however do not. The norm is a generic mission from a computer selected mission template. You've read it all before after the first five. Try WoW or City of Heroes perhaps, for games with well written and thoughtout plots.
If you want plot from this game, you are going to have to make it yourselves. Pretend to be Neo and run around and talk to other people and hope they pretend you are Neo too. Occaisionally a server admin has been rumored to pay the game in a character named Neo or Morpheus etc. This is considered to be the highest point of the game for Matrix officionadoes. They call it a "live event". The chances are it won't occour in your time zone, on your server or at the exact location you are in, but the 20 guys who played beta with the admin will all know about it and do there best to let you know it's going on, .....without ever actually giving you enough information to join in. (Like the actual location of said admin player). Because Noobs ruin it.
Plotwise I have never seen a shabbier game. They just didn't make any effort at all.
It's all in the theme. If you want to hang out in Matrix land and talk Matrix with the Matrix heads this game is for you. Otherwise best avoided. I most certainly do not recommend buying this game. And I could think of more rewarding games to download a free trial of.
Like the post in red, I believe that this game has far less end game content than WoW, so if you thought that was a repetative grind, you are about to enter a whole new league in the no game content department. This is a really small world. The smallest I have seen in any MMO and smaller than many if not most offline RPG's too.
Might be that you're even right on this one.
Matrix unlike WoW doesn't wait until you get to max level before it becomes a repetative grind. It's like that right from the word go. Rep grinding in WoW is more inspired than running missions in Matrix.
I don't know if at all, but you can actually avoid lots of standard mission grinding on your way to level 50. I know I completely did since level 30, and I haven't run a single standard mission to reach level 50. I haven't perceived anything of that as repetetive.
As for the plot, it's essentially non existant. But then the game is based on a special effects movie, so you shouldn't really expect too much from it. The story has meaning? No it doesn't and neither does The Terminator. Give your friend a good slap to wake him up. It's a flimsy premiss used to show off the latest generation of CGI.
Aaaaalright... is there anything to say to this at all? This post is civil and constructive and makes the impression of a justified opinion - but I'd say, it's... well, BS.
I liked the Terminator movies, they were entertaining and not dumb at all; but dude, it's such a known fact that philosophers and scientists showed interest in the movies, that several dialogs there touch philosophical themes, that lots of names and moments correspond to mythology and religion, and that simply the plot itself encouraged discussions about its going-ons (not meaning) that last until today, just like with a series like "Lost".
Sorry dude, you lack knowledge and understanding. That's not even a matter of opinion.
The plot in the game's non-existent... ok, let's look at that, then. I have a bad feeling about this.
Certain quests from certain quest givers have little text stories, much as you would find in every other game. Most of them however do not. The norm is a generic mission from a computer selected mission template. You've read it all before after the first five. Try WoW or City of Heroes perhaps, for games with well written and thoughtout plots.
).
First of all, you don't happen to mean those neighborhood collectors, who make you collect items from gangs? You'd be kind of right about them.
But lol no, you meant mission contacts - although not all of them, their missions or stories stun with originality and entertainment value as far as I can think back, but each of them has its own overarching storyline throughout the five missions.
Apart from that, they all have a place in the city underground, are all somehow related to each other, and are meaningfully used in the ongoing storyline one after each other.
Pandora's Box? Has an entire story over the four arcs, that also touches several of those "meaningless quest givers" and other elements of the movies. What? Yes, the movies did have a plot. *yawn*
But this is all marginal story content. I mentioned the "main plot" above? Well, it's an overarching storyline with lots of side plots that begins somewhere after the end of "The Matrix Revolutions" and has been running until this very day.
There are three vendors in the city from which you can buy a series of mission launchers, those are called "archival mission", archived story missions from previous chapters that normally appear in your mission panel. Those are all coherent among each other and with the live events, cinematics and some other "media" the storyline is told through (those not in the game, though
There are still regular cinematics, missions and events that are all interrelated and could be compared to a television series - it has bigger story arcs, smaller side plots, overarching conspiracies that reach from beginning to today, twists, revelations, climaxes - the character *development* isn't extreme, but different characters have their personalities and ways of talking, from main to marginal ones.
You're still adhering to your statement? How can you claim the story in this game didn't exist if it's the main thing that drives the game?
If you want plot from this game, you are going to have to make it yourselves. Pretend to be Neo and run around and talk to other people and hope they pretend you are Neo too. Lol - that's all there is to say. Players do make their own stories for themselves, that's player RP, and playing Neo or other story characters is generally considered cheap. Occaisionally a server admin has been rumored to play the game in a character named Neo or Morpheus etc. This is considered to be the highest point of the game for Matrix officionadoes. They call it a "live event". The chances are it won't occour in your time zone, on your server or at the exact location you are in, but the 20 guys who played beta with the admin will all know about it and do there best to let you know it's going on, .....without ever actually giving you enough information to join in. (Like the actual location of said admin player). Who are the 20 guys that played beta? If you mean the LESIG, they're volunteers who have to go through applications and be selected into the group. Yes, events aren't announced publicly, because noobs ruin it, or because they're intended for smaller groups of players or certain organizations or factions. However, players get directly invited to events as far as I've heard. But yes, I agree with what you said otherwise. Because Noobs ruin it.
Has been rumored? Occasionally? It happens on a nearly daily basis and is lucidly and chronologically documented in admin screenshots. And that's with only one developer doing all of this - before, it was a team of 10-20 people who were doing this all around the clock as far as I know.
Neo's dead, no one has ever played him (wait, there was some "Neo's RSI" one time way back in the day, but that doesn't count). This isn't relevant to the topic, but is another proof that you know little about this game.
So yea... they decided to tell the storyline you call non-existent not only through common static content like quests and missions, but also live in the game. Of course, when such a thing happens, it's called live event. Similar or identical things exist in other MMORPGs, those are also called "live events".
This makes it possible for the players to directly interact with and talk to, sometimes also discuss with story characters, it can spread through the entire area, it occurs in real time and can involve arbitrary numbers of players, it even leaves some room for improvisation and variation when occuring.
(Of course, it also doesn't require game development, but it does require certain acting skills, planning, thought and time.)
I've already told you this in this post and in previous ones, but these events are all coherent and parts of the whole. They also have scenarios and plots for their own, it's more than just a character logging in and talking (mostly).
I'd really like to hear from you, what do you find bad about live story content in an MMO? Why do you think this concept is wrong, and the one of static content is right?
Plotwise I have never seen a shabbier game. They just didn't make any effort at all.
I don't place any value on this statement.
You seem to know and understand very little about this game and the movies it's based on. Maybe having rushed through the game's content in a few days (like you've said yourself) and having watched the movie series one time without any thought isn't enough to deliver a proper judgement after all - ever thought of that?
I don't want to flame you because you didn't either and your post was constructive and civil - but I don't see any reason not to be direct or honest. You don't really know what you're talking about.
It's all in the theme. If you want to hang out in Matrix land and talk Matrix with the Matrix heads this game is for you. Otherwise best avoided. I most certainly do not recommend buying this game. And I could think of more rewarding games to download a free trial of.
Freiheit says it's only for "huge Matrix fans", you say this.
Anyone who's interested in the franchise and its expansion/continuation through this game, or just liked the movies, is at least recommended to try it out. It doesn't only offer the name "Matrix" and talking to "Matrix heads", it also offers official story content. Voice recordings and music from original composers and actors might boost this statement.
Apart from story, there are also things such as atmosphere or visually impressive combat that people who liked the movies might be interested in.
The martial arts have smaller demerits and some annoying bugs here and there, but mostly, they're quite exciting to look at. I've heard martial arts weren't exactly in any MMO, and MxO is the only game that has interlock at the moment (though another one is under development or something), which allows a much more lively combat performance than ranged combat.
Now although the world might be comparably small and (to a part, intentionally) monotonous, I've heard even sceptics and critics praise the graphics, looks and atmosphere in MxO, counting it to the best ones in the scene. No, they aren't perfect, and I've noticed and voiced that many times aswell.
"Holding on to what I have, pretending I'm a superman."
Lol.
OMG. Lol.
What is the best reward for someone who just picked apart another post and proved the poster wrong and ignorant (in his own perception)?
Fourth best:
Your post gets picked apart, and you realize that you have been wrong. It's up to the poster if he shows mercy, or decides to twit and insult you to his joy. Well, at least you've gained knowledge and wisdom (the latter one cuz you'll be less overconfident next time), which is never a bad thing, right?
Third best:
The poster realizes that he was wrong and admits it. The confirmation of your rightness brings you a certain satisfaction, and the friendlier atmosphere that arises is perceived as positive.
But it also disarms you, and you don't stand as the winner of the debate.
Second best:
The poster, in turn, picks apart your post and you realize that you have been wrong yourself in several points, or at least will have a hard time proving you had been right or your statements are objective, or to find out if you are right at all.
The cognition of your wrongness is there, but this is nothing compared to the adrenalin rush from the endured discussion.
The uber 1337 reward:
Either because he realizes his wrongness, or because he cannot realize this, or because he doesn't know how to defend his points (in "most rewarding" to "least rewarding" order), he has nothing to oppose to you. In the wake of this, the poster resorts to personal attacks or meaningless, derogatory remarks - sometimes only to selected paragraphs or sentences.
You stand as the winner of the argument, seeing the enemy powerlessly struggling against his defeature.
With this in mind, I thank you, baff, for presenting me the ultimate reward on the silver tray. /formalbow
figure they would have it fix by now lol.
That's one of the annoying disadvantages an understaffed developer team and an inconveniently and unflexibly coded game engine offer.
Lol.
OMG. Lol.
Since you clearly think your reply was worthy of being taken more seriously, why don't you tell us exactly which philosophers and scientists showed intrest in the movies? It being such a known fact and all.
Perhaps you could go on to explain how intellectual the Terminator movies are?
Prove me wrong and powerless in my defeature against an uberleet enemy such as you. As is your whim oh mighty one, so that I shall no longer recognise Matrix Online as the the worst ever MMO I have ever played, or a shallow plotless special effects movie and instead learn to appreciate the wisdom to be found in "Lost".
Lol. Lol. Lol. Lol.
Lol
lol
lol
lol
Since you clearly think your reply was worthy of being taken more seriously, why don't you tell us exactly which philosophers and scientists showed intrest in the movies? It being such a known fact and all.
Perhaps you could go on to explain how intellectual the Terminator movies are?
Prove me wrong and powerless in my defeature against an uberleet enemy such as you. As is your whim oh mighty one, so that I shall no longer recognise Matrix Online as the the worst ever MMO I have ever played, or a shallow plotless special effects movie and instead learn to appreciate the wisdom to be found in "Lost".
__________________________________________________________________________________________
You take stuff too seriously. First I wanted to say "so this is what you have to oppose, well then good bye", but then thought it would be funny to make that half-serious list. That post there was partially tongue-in-cheek and not completely sincere
- but the sincere part is, you don't have to be a megalomaniacal elitist to consider yourself a winner against someone who posts utter nonsense.
Ever heard of "The Ultimate Matrix Collection"? Ken Wilber and Cornel West made audio commentaries on the trilogy. They and a bunch of other persons also gave interviews for two one hour long features that concerned the franchise's philosophical and scientific backgrounds.
That's the most obvious evidence, but people have detected and recognized these influences and allusions long before that DVD or the sequels came out, and talk about philosophers showing interest has always been there, in quite reliable sources. Now I'm sorry that I can't provide evidence for those, but that's not really necessary for this point anyway.
The Matrix has generally been recognized as a trilogy that combines innovative effects and action with several thematical and stylistic influences (mainly "philosophy"), do I really have to search for articles and reviews to prove this to you?
The Terminator movies... I've seen only the first two. The idea is sort of cool, the movie plot not dumb and entertaining - not the brainless action that is connected with Chuck Norris movies. I've never said it was an extraordinarily intellectual series.
"Lost" doesn't exactly contain much philosophy or wisdom - there are certainly a few allusions in there, like with certain character names, but I don't think it's too much. However, it has a plot and character constellation that are full of mysteries and constant revelations, and have triggered speculations and discussions.
Even if you ignore all those influences the Matrix offers (which I often do, or did), there is still a plot that deludes you in the first two parts and still leaves open questions after the end of the third one, and that is continued in The Matrix Online in the same way - already this makes it more than a brainless action movie, all the philosophy jabberwocky left aside.
That's why I brought up "Lost" as an example, or comparison - a plot that impresses with itself rather than allusions and influences, and interesting exactly through this.
However, you want to tell me my reply didn't deserve serious treatment. You still have to justify how you could ignore the story or meaning in the content you did, how you completely left out the *main* storyline content in your first post, how you think the events are "occasional" and "rumored", and why you think they're nothing more than meaningless dev appearences of no value.
I'm gonna go ahead and say that you won't be able to back up anything of that - I'm judging after my own experience here that I gained when I couldn't and thus didn't even attempt to justify statements of mine that had been indisputably proven wrong by other forum users.
EDIT: improved a few expressions
The Matrix has generally been recognised as stylishly themed special effects movie with two sequels too many.
Do I really want you to search? The admission that you would have to makes my point.
Of course since you made out that this was all so well known and much regarded I rather thought you might actually of known yourself. To have been able to tell me straight off the bat as your post implied everyone could.
Or rather, it was obvious from your conspicuous lack of examples that you were completely overplaying it.
Searching for articles on the internet for me isn't required, it takes me no longer to type into to Google than it does you, and If I so wanted to I could find links to prove that the moon landings were faked. As I suspected you have been unable to cite me any philosophers or scientists of note. Although, credit where credit is due, you did manage to come up with two names I'd never heard of which is more than I was expecting.
Shwarzeneggar movies are more intellectual than Chuck Norris Movies? Now theres a great bench mark for you. No wonder you find Matrix philosphical.
There isn't any philosophy in Matrix. Anymore than there is a plot in Terminator. Both films ride on one premiss alone. Nice gothic/techno theme? Yes. Plot? Not especially.
Philosophy? I'm not sure you understand the word. Science? Again I don't think you know what the word means.
The Matrix isn't scientific, it's science fiction. Fantasy, not the accurate and repeatable recording of natural phenomina. The "science" in science fiction means the story is set in the future.
Live events in Matrix Online were first proposed to be once a week, after the first two they delayed the rest. there after they started getting delyed and delayed for months on end and then failed to materialise at all. Both of the live events I "attended" occoured at 5.am in the morning and consisted of a few lines of script on the screen; and a report in the forums the next day by someone who actually got told where it was.
By no stretch of the imagination do I consider an admin logging in a charcter called Neo, running into a bar and than chatting with people "in character" a live event. I would be equally impressed if you or anybody else did the same with any other character of anyother name. More impressed in fact.
A server admin playing his own game does neither a plot make nor a live event make.
Once again since this kind of "live event" is limited to being one player in one server at a time, there isn't much chance of you actually participating in it at any time during your subscription.
A "live event" is no substitute for actually programming. For hardcoding actual plot into the game that all users may enjoy as often as they wish, whenever they wish. It's nothing less than a cop out.
And no an archive of those events does not cut it. This is a video game. You must be able to particiapte in each and everyone of those events. Every plotline available for you to be the star of.
They could have written a plot, they could have written thousands of them. But they didn't bother, instead they are going to write one every blue moon, that 12 people will get to participate in, and the rest can read about on the forums.
Utterly pathetic.
This game has a plot? Hardly. The opposite is true. Totally undirected. Not fleshed out in anyway. No man hours spent in preparation. A sales gimmick that couldn't rescue a substandard product from financially failing. A joke nothing more.
lol lol lol lol
You are trying to win something?
The rest of us are just discussing a game.
The Matrix has generally been recognised as stylishly themed special effects movie with two sequels too many.
You know what... you're right with this. Especially the sequels were polarizing, and opinions on the plot, philosophical influences or intellectual value disperse.
Now granted, lots of criticisms I've read on the sequels were stupid as hell, but others were understandable and justified.
Indeed, the special effects / style aspects might be better known at least in the "mainstream", and there's a school of thought that the sequels were obsolete and sub-par.
There's also a school of thought that it was the first movie with "philosophy", and the sequels with "pseudo-philosophical babble" - one I particularly consider wrong for certain reasons, but that's not the point.
However, others actually do consider it an intelligent and deep series, see whatever influences it has and appreciate it.
Searching for articles on the internet for me isn't required, if I wanted to I could find links to prove that the moon landings were faked.
As implied, there are different people with different articles and different opinions and statements. You probably could find any sort of article, granted.
Okay, let's forget about random articles, that was a moot point.
As I suspected you have been unable to cite me any philosophers or scientists of note. Although you did manage to come up with two names I'd never heard of which is more than I was expecting.
What does it mean to me if a random guy on the internet tells me he's never heard of relatively known (by "relatively", I mean you don't necessarily run across their names if you're more into the metal or MMO scene, or sit at your regular school lesson, if you know what I mean) and existent public thinkers and authors? Exactly, nothing.
You can read about them on Wikipedia as a starting point, I'm sure there are other more reliable sites that deal with them. If it helps you, Cornel West played a minor role in the sequels, "Counselor West".
You know, I have "The Ultimate Matrix Collection" right there on my shelves. There are 10 discs inside, and one of them is dedicated to philosophical and scientific themes appearing in the Matrix. You'll find lots of authors and so on sharing their thoughts and knowledge there, it's right there on celluloid.
I could put in the disc and write down all the names for ya right now, and everything they're known for, but that's not worth my time - I'm already here responding to you, that's more than enough.
Of course since you made out that this was all so well known and much regarded I rather thought you might actually of known yourself. Or rather, I knew that you didn't and you are overplaying it.
I'll be honest with you, I was never really into philosophy, and I had never heard of those names myself before I watched those DVD features. I could have if I were interested enough and did a research, but I wasn't.
More than that, I wasn't even all too interested in the movies' thematical influences, my main interests lied in the style/action and plot.
In this sense, I'll not have too much to offer you if you ask me that it's something you immediately detect in the movies if you're not blind or high (the next step is asking yourself how serious it all is, but you can't ignore this smartass babble in the first place - I repeat, unless you're high or deaf), that the Wachowski brothers are known not only for their interest in comics, animes, hong kong cinema or video games, but also in philosophical works.
They required their actors to read selected works to understand what's going on in the first place.
Shwarzeneggar movies are more intellectual than Chuck Norris Movies? Now theres a great bench mark for you. No wonder you find Matrix philosphical.
I don't feel like continuing this, it's not the topic. I wasn't comparing Schwazenegger to Norris, I said "The Terminator" *wasn't dumb", and there were some dumber action movies, Chuck Norris only as an example.
If you're an expert in Chuck Norris movies, you might even be able to disprove me. Thus, I fearfully close this topic.
There isn't any philosophy in Matrix. Anymor than there is a plot in Terminator. Both films ride on one premiss alone. Nice gothic/techno theme? Yes. Plot? no.
You can persist on being stubborn and ignorant if you want, that's out of my case.
Live events in MAtrix Online were first proposed to be once a week, after the first two they delayed the rest. Both of the live events I went to occoured at 5.am in the morning and consisted of a few lines of script on the screen. And a report in the forums the next day by someone who actually got told where it was.
I don't know when you played. Currently, events occur on workdays, and there are at least three in a week (dealing with each critical mission), usually a couple more.
The reports on the forums (which include descriptions and a bunch of chronoligical screenshots with chatlogs) are from the game developer who writes the storyline in the game (in collaboration with Paul Chadwick) and organizes/plays live events - I wasn't talking about the occasional reports players made themselves.
You know, what you saw were a few lines on the screen - others experienced direct involvement into scenarios and puzzle solving, among private conversations and discussions. Don't base the entire game on your extremely short and superficial experience.
By no stretch of the imagination do I consider an admin logging in a charcter called Neo, running into a bar and than chatting with people "in character" a live event. I would be equally impressed if you or anybody else did the same with any other character of anyother name. More impressed in fact.
Once again, there was never a Neo. How do you expect yourself to be taken seriously if you even make mistakes at the most basic things?
As I already pointed out several times to you and you kindly ignored, the events are more than a character logging in and chatting. Yes, there are also some of this type. But most have a prewritten, coherent plot (which schematically consist of a starting situation, diverse tasks players get to follow in time, and an outcome), which is told equally by critical missions and events, rarelier cinematics. I've written a bit more about it in my previous post, a pity you overlooked it.
The events themselves consist of primarily that developer playing up to three character simulataneously (at one or different places) and secondarily members of "LESIG" (a player volunteer group) following a scenario designed by themselves, and involving players. The tasks they're given can be such as persuasion, spying or elimination (all of them having a meaning, not to mention). I've also heard about puzzles they had to solve.
Events also include battles, which are executed by admin characters and NPC spawns. Rarelier, it also includes effects such as the "code pulse device" most recently.
Of course there are also moments when characters just stand there and talk with players or each other - that's called "dialogue", and is generally what's opposed to action in movies. Those can be briefings/debriefings or just meetings. Story information is often revealed there, and that's also where the character portrayal (I don't wanna say "development") takes place.
If you go to the forums, there's a section called "Live Events" - or you can find a thread I created which lists all of them in a chronological order and grouped in chapters since the stupid forums aren't able to do so.
If you want, you can take the time and provide yourself an impression (no, that doesn't mean that you look at a few screenshots or threads and say "lol, that's exactly what I was saying") - I know I won't take my time to analyse them for you.
Once again since this kind of "live event" is limited to being one player in one server at a time, there isn't much chance of you actually participating in it at any time during your subscription.
If you live in the correct time zone and make certain efforts to find events (or are invited to one personally), you'll get to partake in far more than a few times during your prescription. There are players who have partaken in lots of live events.
There are also poor pipsqueaks like me who live in the wrong place and only experience them through the forums - that's, guess what, because there's only one developer who produces live events, and can't log in at certain times of the day.
That's something players have been rightfully complaining about since ever, but that doesn't mean the live events aren't there or something.
A "live event" is no substitute for actually programming. For hardcoding actual plot into the game that all users may enjoy as often as they wish, whenver they wish. It's nothing less than a cop out.
They could have written a plot, they could have written thousands of them. But they didn't bother, instead they are going to write one every blue moon, that 12 people will get to participate in, and the rest can read about on the forums.
A somewhat close-minded attitude, don't you think? That's the point of "live" content - it happens once, right here, right now, you are directly there (or know that it was there when you weren't there), you interact with the scenario and characters, you get to see something that actually is directly happening in the world independent of you, and you see a more flexible story delivery with living people acting, rather than prewritten NPC texts.
That's also the point about being "private" or "secret" - many events do only work and make sense if there isn't the population of the entire server spamming and annoying (so what, there are nubs everyhwere), and are more enjoyable for the selected participants.
But I've also seen medium to large crowds in live events. Yes, that's right.
No, it doesn't require programming, at least not when all the tools are made - admin commands (pacification/PvP zones, "code bomb" devices). They do, however, require a plot to fit in or tell (which again, requires writing it), it requires planning, and a certain level of role playing skills to deliver the dozens of characters you play believably and in an interesting way, a certain experience to execute the program properly, and so on.
Any bet it's harder than writing missions and quests (again, once the system and tools are programmed, there's not much left to simply fill in the text and scenario into the scheme).
No, highly unfortunately for your points, these events don't happen "every blue moon" but 3-5 times a week, reading about it on the forums still provides you a good delivery of things that have happened there, revealed there and said there, and maybe even a better delivery of meaning and chronological outline than when you participate, also when you look back at previous story plots,
and "hard-coded" content is equally present - there are three multi-phased missions (that everyone can access, basically), that are full to the top with story, and interact with each other, with previous and following ones, and with live events.
As I pointed and you overlooked (see a pattern here?), there's a mission archive of considerable size, which you can start running and analysing right when you start playing. Needless to say, those are also coherent, and interact with earlier live events, which were also documented on the forums or on the main website. (As a side note here, the interaction between missions and live events in the first month wasn't very good, because different people were responsible for them, and lacked good communication - but that's history.)
And then of course, there's those mission contacts and PB, in which you also failed to see story, coherency or meaning. If you ask me to back this up, first read what I've written above, it'll be a start.
Utterly pathetic. This game has a plot? Hardly. The opposite is true. Totally undirected. Not fleshed out in anyway. No man hours spent in preparation.
Basically you're saying that collaborating an outline for chapters and months ahead with correlations all across, then fleshing it out in the game with additional subplots and details, and making interacting mission/event outlines, and then writing and organizing them, doesn't require any abilities and man hours? Rarebit would have to say something to this. lololol.
I don't want to go ahead and claim the story was perfect in its progression, because it has a certain episodic character and I remember larger "side plots" being wrapped up in an unsatisfying way (to be fair, that being opposed to plots enduring from beginning until today, and correlations and references all across).
But I don't think this is a higher discussion about MxO writing quality, I think you're claiming it's non-existent and stuff. From everything you've said so far, about the movies or the game, it's apparent that you don't know what you're talking about, and thus, I don't place any value on your "totally undirected and not fleshed out", because it's obvious that it's based on extremely poor and superficial observation (or lack thereof), rather than a serious story analysis.
In case you just haven't understood this - there is a *crucial* difference between someone who bases his criticism (like, "this makes no sense") on lack of comprehension, or on serious analysis. In case two, you stand on par with, or above the product - in case two, you're definitely way below.
PS: Right, we're discussing a topic. It's just like this, if the discussion is filled with derogatory remarks on both side, a rivalry arises willy-nilly, and the "discussion" starts turning from collaboration into a battle, formally also referred to as "pissing contest". It doesn't have to completely transform in it if the debate still revolves around points and not just on mutual insults, but the aspect is certainly there.
And where is rivalry, there is also "winning" and "losing". In a wider sense, of course, you can also call being proved right "winning", and that's actually what I meant.
Philosophy? I'm not sure you understand the word. Science? Again I don't think you know what the word means.
Everyone, even the last noob in the school class, knows what these words mean.
I'm far from what you could call an expert in those areas, and I don't think I want to start a discussion about these terms, especially since they're neatly defined in dictionaries and encyclopedia both of us can easily access (and claim the knowledge for ourselves =p).
Maybe a disclaimer - the way it looks to me, the Matrix doesn't exactly process serious *science", it's also not based on science - there are fictional stories that have science as a theme more or less.
However, it does work up several scientific thematics such as artificial intelligence, simulated reality or computer programming. As someone who, again, isn't an expert in this area, I can't make a statement about the seriousness of this, and I also can't direct you to the DVD feature, because unlike the one about the philosophy, it's rather vague and general and only marginally deals with the Matrix universe in particular.
The Matrix isn't scientific, it's science fiction. Fantasy, not the accurate and repeatable recording of natural phenomina. The "science" in science fiction means the story is set in the future.
You're right. Well, not quite - a story set in the future can aswell be fantasy or mystery, science fiction can aswell take place in the present or past.
The concept is, there is science fiction that takes the actual science, or, you know, scientific theories, more serious than the other.
Basic example: you make a movie about robots. Either you include the robots just like that, or you integrate a scientific explanation of how they were constructed and how they work, or you base these explanations on actual scientific knowledge, or theories - one that a scientist would comment on with something like "hmm, yes, that's actually considerable, although not feasible yet".
Considering the reactions and detailed dialogues about the Matrix simulation's programming, I'd say it rather belongs to the latter category.
But hey, if you know the ropes, you can aswell start describing how unserious anything scientific or philosophical in the Matrix movies is. This is just not your point - your point is, none of this is in the movies, and it hasn't been recognized by any thinkers or authors.
A server admin playing his own game does neither a plot make nor a live event make.
The thing is, that's exactly what he does. You understand that an author writing a novel or a developer making story content for an MMO is also "his own game" that you merely consume?
And no an archive of those events does not cut it. This is a video game. You must be able to particiapte in each and everyone of those events. Every plotline available for you to be the star of.
The archive is for those interested in the *story* - you're saying it's non-existent, well it is existent, it is available in an archive, it tells a story. This story has actually taken place in the game, live.
This isn't a question of the chicken and the egg. First, there is the live event, intended as such - then, there's the forum report; without it, less people would know what's going on in the story, or what has happened. Not only selected people would be able to partake, no, only selected people would even be able to know. That would be also a scenario where you would be more correct saying "the plot is non-existent", as it would be at least understandable that you couldn't know much about it - but not this way.
In case you were talking about the mission archive - it is right in the game. In missions, you are, indeed, the star, the one who runs all the important tasks. However, every other player runs the same (as it is with static, available content), and it only works for yourself.
This is opposed to live events, where the concept is that you are only one of many others, where different things occur with different publicity (from private to, well, public), and more importantly, realistically in real time (that means, you can partake in it or miss it), and only selected people can be the stars of the entire playerbase at once.
Maybe you've understood now? That's the concept. Many players appreciate and like exactly this about live events. You don't have to like it, but you should at least have decency to understand the advantages and concepts of live content - that being able to actually talk to story characters (they are actually role playing admins, but so is the writer of any story - it's all about fiction and illusion, you get my drift), and run tasks in real time with other players in-character is what people refer to as "immersion", rather than hardlines, agents and static content every other player can run in the same way.
Otherwise, you'd just be another close-minded individual who can't look past his own preferences and views any of his opinions as definite facts.
There are things that are matter of opinion and things that aren't - the fact that you don't like this concept of live events belongs to the first category.
A sales gimmick that couldn't rescue a substandard product from financially failing. A joke nothing more.
If you mean the game by "the substandard product", it's vice versa - the idea for the game was iniated by the Wachowskis, it basically was created primarily because of the story. It has been focused on storyline since before beta, or launch.
If you mean the movies, that's what you can say about any sequel, prequel, spin-off or follow-up aswell.
Its combat system is quite diffrent then other MMORPG's, and not everyone will like it. I personally found it quite fun. it also captures the Matrix scene quite well.
The game is what..5~10$? its worth it to check it out
It somehow adds more plot content to game the if the admin who played with you named his character "Morpheus" and not "Neo"?
You could look up the meaning of the word "philosophy" in a dictionary, but never have?
Every school student can tell you what it means? (..except you it seems). In my school of 600 people, only 2 students studied philosophy and the subject is not on the national curriculam until university.
The philosopher you spoke of wasn't in fact a philosopher at all, but actually was an actor? A bit player from one of the sequels? The philosophy discussions are part of the bonus material on the DVD?
And you don't want to explain to me why you think Arnie movies are intellectual but Chuck Norris movies are not?
I don't see anything here worth taking seriously at all. Just someone very into his game overplaying every aspect of it.
As for live events, why would I want for a company to provide me with live events? Every player on the server is perfectly capable of doing this, in fact in every other MMO this happens everyday too. Players routinely organise this kind of thing in every other game on the market by themselves anyway. And after their little shindigs the players all post about it on the forums. Is this a substitute for actual coded game content and plot?
No. It's just people playing the game.
You are right, I really don't appreciate being charged for one person to log in and play with me for 20 minutes a night. especially if that person (as if I am somehow more intrested in playing with someone because they work for a video games company rather than because they are a friend of mine) can't even guarentee that I will see any of their time (or is that "added content"). It's a joke. Nothing less than a rip off. Some bloke does sod all work and pretends it's a fantastic service that no one else is offering. A sales gimmick only.
Dev's should be paid to make the game, not play it with you.
As for having 10 DVD's of the Matrix on your shelf, and having watched through all the bonus material, you are the very type of person, and the only type of person, who I would recommend this game to.
I really and honestly believe that anyone who is not a totally devout Matrix head will not find this game in any way rewarding. As a game, it doesn't stand up in it's own right.
While for Matrix afficionadoes, it's ideal. An online roleplay enviroment to carry on with living the theme. If you are a die hard fan this is for you. If not, avoid it like the plague.
(Enter the Matrix, the single player game, however is very good).
As Gameloading says there aren't so many city based RPG's. In fact there aren't that many non fantasy MMO's at all. The modernistic theme was exactly what attracted me to this game, (from City of Heroes). But ultimately, the gameplay didn't match up to the theme. The content, plot included, was just too thin on the ground. Do the COH trial. That's not only worth the download and the time, it's even worth money.
You just keep misunderstanding every single thing I'm saying.
All I'm saying is, the fact that you mention Neo among live event characters implies how little you know about the game.
That's really just a marginal error of yours that I enjoy harping on, there's nothing more to it. I've never lost a word about it adding more content.
You could look up the meaning of the word "philosophy" in a dictionary, but never have?
Every school student can tell you what it means? (..except you it seems). In my school of 600 people, only 2 students studied philosophy and the subject is not on the national curriculam until university.
I have never studied philosophy seriously, but I've read and heard enough about it, and a part of it from topics related to the Matrix. I have a good understanding of what it is.
The two students have studied philosophy, it doesn't mean all the others don't have a clue of what it is. Or does it? Maybe I've overestimated your (con?)disciples
All I'm saying, again, I'm not going to delve into discussions about the definition of philosophy, because they're redundant here.
The philosopher you spoke of wasn't in fact a philosopher at all, but actually was an actor? A bit player from one of the sequels? The philosophy discussions are part of the bonus material on the DVD?
He's a scholar and public thinker, with a few dozens of published works. He had a guest appearence in the movies, I just mentioned it to you.
The DVD feature interviews people of the scene and explains references or dialogs in the movies - which are already there, naturally. They have been there already when the movies were shown in the cinemas, that was months before this DVD feature was published.
You can't read and understand the most simple and basic statements. Even now, you'll misread something and post a silly reply, and bet.
And you don't want to explain to me why you think Arnie movies are intellectual but Chuck Norris movies are not?
Those were just examples, they're off-topic and I'm not going to discuss them.
For the record, I've never said "Arnie" movies were smarter than "Norris" movies, you've just misread another simple explanation I gave you like, twice.
Do you do this intentionally?
I don't see anything here worth taking seriously at all. Just someone very into his game overplaying every aspect of it.
That's because you feel helplessly overwhelmed by evidences and explanations thrown at your ignorant points, and don't understand them even if they're put right under your nose.
You can misread even a definite one-sentencer, and even if I direct you to a definite source where it hails with names, you tell me I've made everything up.
Self-projection at its best.
As for live events, why would I want for a company to provide me with live events? Every player on the server is perfectly capable of doing this, in fact in every other MMO this happens everyday too. Players routinely organise this kind of thing in every other game on the market by themselves anyway. And after their little shindigs the players all post about it on the forums. Is this a substitute for actual coded game content and plot?
The events provided by the company are official and canon, only admins can play story characters players want to see, and are capable of doing it knowing and understanding the story better than players because they write it.
Why do people want novel sequels from the same authors, instead of a follow up being written by fans? Now granted, it's not the same authors that write the story for MxO as for the movies, and that's why MxO is less canonical, but they're still appointed to do it, and still integrate it in an official storyline the players don't know ahead.
That's really all I can tell you, sorry if you don't understand.
Oh, almost forgot: admins use admin commands when organizing events, something players can't do.
No. It's just people playing the game.
You are right, I really don't appreciate being charged for one person to log in and play with me for 20 minutes a night. especially if that person (as if I am somehow more intrested in playing with someone because they work for a video games company rather than because they are a friend of mine) can't even guarentee that I will see any of their time (or is that "added content"). It's a joke. Nothing less than a rip off. Some bloke does sod all work and pretends it's a fantastic service that no one else is offering. A sales gimmick only.
Dev's should be paid to make the game, not play it with you.
I've explained the concept and details right above, you just ignore everything and come to your own conclusions. I'm not gonna repeat myself, explaining things to you is pointless.
As for having 10 DVD's of the Matrix on your shelf, and having watched through all the bonus material, you are the very type of person, and the only type of person, who I would recommend this game to.
Another moot point.
I bought them because I was interested in seeing the bonus material. I've watched it once a few years ago and haven't since then.
Apart from that one DVD and audio commentaries from philosophers and critics, this whole bonus material deals with how the movies were made, and the people who worked on it. That has nothing to do with MxO.
I really and honestly believe that anyone who is not a totally devout Matrix head will not find this game in any way rewarding. As a game, it doesn't stand up in it's own right.
While for Matrix afficionadoes, it's ideal. An online roleplay enviroment to carry on with living the theme. If you are a die hard fan this is for you. If not, avoid it like the plague.
Another absurd exaggeration. I've already said why, read somewhere above. And believe what you want man, that's not my burden at the end of the day.
(Enter the Matrix, the single player game, however is very good).
A bit funny you're saying this considering this game has been picked apart for bugs and demerits, and even I who had never played any video game before feels disturbed by them.
But yea, a nice game.
As Gameloading says there aren't so many city based RPG's. In fact there aren't that many non fantasy MMO's at all. The modernistic theme was exactly what attracted me to this game, (from City of Heroes). But ultimately, the gameplay didn't match up to the theme. The content, plot included, was just too thin on the ground. Do the COH trial. That's not only worth the download and the time, it's even worth money.