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Scared about soe tag....
gauge2k3
Member Posts: 442
so I am dling the game but I am a little scared about the SOE tag. IF i remotely smell smedley or anyone close to it in vanguard consider me gone without hesitation.
SOE has a habit of releasing unfinished products and many game testers ( professional ) who test thier products acknowledge that many expansions and even games ship from SOE without a magority of them finished, and it is on purpose. They release a large part of the product and fix a bug letting you progress (add the other part they didn't actually finish ).
So my fear of soe is very well founded. SOE likes money, more then games, they like money. They are the laughing stock of the mmo industry, and from what I hear vanguard wanted to not be a part of SOE on purpose to set an example of them, and now they are teaming with the same people.
Anything soe is getting money from or producing gets ruined, its a long standing fact, the only debatable game is EQ2. Many people enjoy it and thats fine, but 1 out of all the games they offer isn't exactly a great track record. MxO is all but shut down, SWG <-- I don't need to say anything there, EQ1 was ruined when the original dev team was fired ( or left lol we will never know ).
SOE pushes expansions for its games faster then feasable, its because it is faster then feasable, you can't make that much content in that short of a time, it doesn't happen. They would have to be gods of programming and I think we can all agree they are not.
Many people will say SOE has no say in it and sigil games is developing it, but believe me and other people who know business, producers have last say.
Its a bad sign that I have not even gotten to play it yet and i'm scared of failure because of the soe tag.
Knock WoW all you want but they care about gamers and games more then money. Thier busniess philospohpy is make good games and the money will come. Its that simple for them. They always answer for game release dates its done when its done, also a good thing for mmo development and games in general.
You can hate WoW the game but don't hate on how they do what they do, thier dev team is talented, and thier customer support is unparalleled, in thier tech support forums I have recieved direct replys from posts on numerous occasions.
IMO WoW sets the standard for company/player relations, regardless if the game sucks or not.
SOE sucks, and i'm scared.
SOE has a habit of releasing unfinished products and many game testers ( professional ) who test thier products acknowledge that many expansions and even games ship from SOE without a magority of them finished, and it is on purpose. They release a large part of the product and fix a bug letting you progress (add the other part they didn't actually finish ).
So my fear of soe is very well founded. SOE likes money, more then games, they like money. They are the laughing stock of the mmo industry, and from what I hear vanguard wanted to not be a part of SOE on purpose to set an example of them, and now they are teaming with the same people.
Anything soe is getting money from or producing gets ruined, its a long standing fact, the only debatable game is EQ2. Many people enjoy it and thats fine, but 1 out of all the games they offer isn't exactly a great track record. MxO is all but shut down, SWG <-- I don't need to say anything there, EQ1 was ruined when the original dev team was fired ( or left lol we will never know ).
SOE pushes expansions for its games faster then feasable, its because it is faster then feasable, you can't make that much content in that short of a time, it doesn't happen. They would have to be gods of programming and I think we can all agree they are not.
Many people will say SOE has no say in it and sigil games is developing it, but believe me and other people who know business, producers have last say.
Its a bad sign that I have not even gotten to play it yet and i'm scared of failure because of the soe tag.
Knock WoW all you want but they care about gamers and games more then money. Thier busniess philospohpy is make good games and the money will come. Its that simple for them. They always answer for game release dates its done when its done, also a good thing for mmo development and games in general.
You can hate WoW the game but don't hate on how they do what they do, thier dev team is talented, and thier customer support is unparalleled, in thier tech support forums I have recieved direct replys from posts on numerous occasions.
IMO WoW sets the standard for company/player relations, regardless if the game sucks or not.
SOE sucks, and i'm scared.
Comments
Now, with that stated, you *should* be worried about any game connected in any way with SOE. Sigil is totally reliant on SOE for financial support at this point and the cold truth is that whoever controls the purse strings will ultimately be responsible for the game.
SOE has the opposite of the Midas touch when it comes to MMORPGs and they will ruin Vanguard.
If SOE had not gotten involved this game would have been released by MS last JULY. SOE loaned them a bunch of money already, how much more do you want SOE to loan them before SOE wants some money in return? It's not their game.
If you want SOE to continue to loan them money then send me $100, I will pay you back next week when I get paid.
Oh and don't bother giving a return address, I will just lose it.
"Knock WoW all you want but they care about gamers and games more then money. Thier busniess philospohpy is make good games and the money will come. Its that simple for them. They always answer for game release dates its done when its done, also a good thing for mmo development and games in general.
You can hate WoW the game but don't hate on how they do what they do, thier dev team is talented, and thier customer support is unparalleled, in thier tech support forums I have recieved direct replys from posts on numerous occasions."
Funny you should say this, because one of the primary reasons I quit WoW was because I thought Blizzard was caring much more about the $$$ than appeasing its customer base.
Main reason:
From day #1, their servers, world servers/database servers could NOT support a high population smoothly (or even medium at times). They even set a player limit on their servers - but this was obviously too high, because every day the servers would start to bog down (server side lag/load), the items/database would have slowdowns/bugs (making it hard or impossible to loot). I encountered these kinds of problems basically every day I played - and was constantly wishing they'd upgrade their servers.
*most* of the time the game ran smoothly enough - but it was painfully obvious, that whilst raking in hundreds of millions of $$$ in subscriptions, they weren't putting any of that money back into improving their server architecture/stability. Hell they even went the cheap-ass option of making patches peer-to-peer instead of a central download centre. (I always got patches faster off other games, like EQ/EQ2 +others than WoW - and why should I have to upload the patch to other people? - yes I know there was usually a fileplanet or other download option soon enough, but not straight away).
Blizzards solution of adding more servers did absolutely nothing to fix the core issues here, which had stayed with the game (well at least until I quit a littler over a year ago - I played for a few months).
Yes Vanguard had quite a few bugs and issues, both graphics and gameplay/npc wise - but even with 100-150+ people in a 'chunk' (a zone like area of the world), like Three Rivers, I've never felt like their servers were underpowered/suffering load problems.
Yes WoW did set a new benchmark for early polish/playability in a game, playing extraordinarily well out of the box (besides load issues) - but to say Blizzard CS and tech is unparalleled is going a bit far.
If SOE had not gotten involved this game would have been released by MS last JULY. SOE loaned them a bunch of money already, how much more do you want SOE to loan them before SOE wants some money in return? It's not their game.
If you want SOE to continue to loan them money then send me $100, I will pay you back next week when I get paid.
Oh and don't bother giving a return address, I will just lose it.
So five years and forty million dollars later and we have one of the buggiest game launches of all time. Somebody else compared this game to Water World...they were right on the mark.
If Sigil couldn't get the game done in that time frame with that much money maybe the game shouldn't have been launched at all...
If you knew anything at all you would understand a server can't hold several thousands of people online at the same time without lagging, its just to much information being passed through a narrow tube.
If you look at wow servers and the population of them they actually host people people online on any given server then most mmo's ( eve is a cluster of servers so it doesn't really count IMO, although impressive )
They have fixed this problem by intrducing wait times to cap server pop, and letting servers with ihgh wait times transfer to lower population servers. This has fixed a fast majority of the population issue's.
Lets not forget why the population issue is an issue, because wow is such a good game that many people want to play it.
It takes time for blizzard to upgrade the literally hundreds of servers they have online, that doesn't happen overnight, also realize that in most cases upgrading servers doesn't fix the lag issue, its the amount of data being transfered that causes it, like trying to push a pickle through a garden hose.
things that are predictable and are in the hands of the company consistantly screw up at SOE, thats why i'm scared.
To sum up my post WoW fixes anything it has direct control over, and they do it quickly ( in most cases ), SOE does not. What takes WoW a week or a month to fix, the same bug in an soe game takes years. I'm not knocking Vanguard, i have not tried it yet, still downloading, i'm just saying it will more then likely fail, simply because anything with SOE attached to it 90% of the time does.
While no where a fan of vanguard in its current state and if you search you see my reasons why.
This post is nothing but a mindless ill informed "SoE sucks and blizzard are great"
Clearly before you make such a large post on the matter at least have some indepth knowledge.Have you played WoW TBC?
Guessing no because if you did get anywhere past the usual surface quests you find its very bug ridden.Ask anyone who been to the group of dungeons called tempest keep there (aractraz,bontanica or mech) how bug ridden it is.And not just minor bugs.You could spent 3 hrs clearing to get to the event in arcatraz to see it bugged 50% of the time!
Oh how about karazhan with the common and well known bug many guilds have reported since beta and never got fixed of the horseman going poof into thin air with no loot or body .How many SoE games do you know that a raid boss does that .
Only a few guilds have made it to gruul's lair and all say same thing- its a bug paradise.
So before you start kicking a company and bowing your head before another ,know more about the games.Having knowledge of dancing naked with a level 2 elf does not tell you how polished a game is.
Stop joining the bandwagon and know your games !
I play EQ2 and WoW.In the current state i can easily say EQ2 has less bugs then WoW.Thats a SoE game thru and thru unlike vanguard which is sigil made and SoE only runs the servers and CSR.Vanguard bug issues you should point the finger on sigil pure and simple
However in my experience WoW/blizzard has superior performance on every level in comparison to its peers. Even trying to be as unbiased as I can I still get this result.
Yes I have played TBC, and for an expansion the size it is i'm impressed how smoothly it sent, 90+% of people that installed it could play only minutes after installing. Complications always happen with these t hings but thats impressive.
I do think TBC is more of the same stuff that was already in the game ( sadly ) which is why i'm looking for something new, also i'm tired of cartoonyness.
So please don't label me as a fanboy just because I have had a legitimatly good experince with WoW and blizzard.
Everything stated in this forum will always be opinion, but if you need me to say it then I will, this is just my opinion and my experience.
Also i'm not necessarily a SOE hater, i mean EQ2 is what I would consider an acceptable success. But the track record/numbers dont' speak well in SOE's favor.
Lets hope SOE keeps its hands out of sigil and lets them have the freedom they need, and maybe it will be beneficial for both parties, SOE will get credit for a great game and sigil will get to make the game they want to make.
If SOE had not gotten involved this game would have been released by MS last JULY. SOE loaned them a bunch of money already, how much more do you want SOE to loan them before SOE wants some money in return? It's not their game.
If you want SOE to continue to loan them money then send me $100, I will pay you back next week when I get paid.
Oh and don't bother giving a return address, I will just lose it.
So five years and forty million dollars later and we have one of the buggiest game launches of all time. Somebody else compared this game to Water World...they were right on the mark.
If Sigil couldn't get the game done in that time frame with that much money maybe the game shouldn't have been launched at all...
I agree, 5 years is along time, but i do belive its cous sigil are a very small company, compaired to others out there, think its the first game they make
Been able to play after installing is certainly no benchmark of how polished a product is .
I am pretty sure most who bought vanguard has zero issues installing it neither.Its how the game plays,how few bugs exist etc.
How many SoE games have you played and how far have u gone?Hope further then you clearly have in TBC since you seems to condiser it polished .
TBH i am so impressed with how SoE handled EQ2 i be happy to see them give sigil a hand in fixing the current game as it is.
So i go the opposite way and hope SoE gets more involved in vanguard.
Since you are commenting about experience ,in my experience SoE did a way better job making EQ2 better each month and fixing things then blizzard has with WoW .
If SOE had not gotten involved this game would have been released by MS last JULY. SOE loaned them a bunch of money already, how much more do you want SOE to loan them before SOE wants some money in return? It's not their game.
If you want SOE to continue to loan them money then send me $100, I will pay you back next week when I get paid.
Oh and don't bother giving a return address, I will just lose it.
Finally a well informed person.If it was up to M$ you would have played the game as it was 6 months ago.Where is the proof SoE asked for the game to launch now?Show me.
Fact that SoE threw them a lifeline now makes them the "evil" one?
To compare this game to WoW is laughable at best, criminal at worst. Every low grade, sloped forehaeded, teenager plays WoW! This game is about grinding, raiding, and casuals be damned!
"GO PLAY WoW WHINERS!"
This game is difficult, not like the festering piece of crap WoW. You want a challenge play Vanguard. Brad hates WoW and SOE isn't so bad, After all SOE brought us so many raid expansions and eliminated the useless casual players from EQ1 to allow us hardcore players to exp without idiot trainers and incompetant casuals to be around anymore. Casual players are the ones buying accounts and platinum. Us hardcore raiders have all no drop gear.
Guwa! Ka ka ka ka!
I assume everyone here has played WoW because it's the New Disney Land, everyone has seen the rides and played pranks on the poor semi sexual men in Tigger costumes waiting to cop a feel on kids. This game has a LOT to offer, just not yet. We've read all the bad posts (yes I made one too...) but by God I'll keep this subscription open, because with a few simple fixes we (the undeterred populist who's one goal in life is to become digital hermits in our home witling away crafting xp or the one dude who pks in a frilly pink dress because he's just that damn good) would live in the grind. And that's what all mmos are these days, grinds. And we'll keep on buying them because why have a real life when my monitor tells me what my life is via combat text and sexy tells from that one hot chick who is probably some 40 year old dude who perfected his "sexy jitsu" to take the gold you know you give up to his dancing self. Let's all get along, and come back in about a month or so when the issues are ironed out...plus at this rate I can't even get my money back if I tried -_-
Cheers
>This is my opinion and my opinion only<
Clever things.
Are you saying that all WoW players have microcephly?
Do you have a college degree?
Thanks.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
What part of "SIGIL ran out of money" don't you understand?
The too-early release had nothing to do with SOE. In fact I am thinking more and more that SOE really got burned by their decision to pick up this game after Microsoft dropped it.