Skills seem limited.

JEMcLeod · February 2007

Can anyone tell me about the abilites for some of the classes. I was looking at allakazham site of LOTRO and you know looking at the lore master he only has 9 abilites, like ranen-lore and tend the sick. Just seems pretty limited. I guess I am used to FFXI where you had tons of different abilities. Oh and also does any class have raise or something where you can raise a down character. While on the subject how does "death" work in the game. Do you lose experience and all your items, can you get them back?

Keldien · February 2007

I have 18 abilities at level 19 as a Loremaster. I think Allakazham is a little off.

Captains and Minstrels, the two main healers, both raise incapacitated players.

Death gives you a debuff that raises your dread. At one death, it's not that big of a deal - but if you die a few times in a row, you're looking at a pretty high amount of dread.

Dread lowers the amount you can be healed for, increases your damage taken and lowers your max health until it's gone. The debuff lasts ten minutes, so.. it can force you to take some downtime if you die too much, it seems.

Your items take a durability hit. They can be repaired, even at 0% durability, but it can get really pricey.

Nitros284 · February 2007

I have a lvl 11 Captain and have 11 abilities, not including passives I got.

Jackdog · February 2007

as a hunter at lvl 22 I have 21 to chose from

Woodsling · February 2007

Even though you do get some skills in this game there's no real choices. Everyone in a class is just the same as everyone else from the same class.

No specialization of sorts whatsoever.

Put ten level 20 minstrels beside eachother and there's nothing to tell them apart exept their appearance (and even that is similiar).

Would've been so much nicer if you could focus your character to some extent by choosing "paths" or something.

Lore-masters focused on wind magic or minstrels focused on healing- or battle songs.

To this I only have one comment, and it's best shown like this;

Jackdog · February 2007

Originally posted by Woodsling

Even though you do get some skills in this game there's no real choices. Everyone in a class is just the same as everyone else from the same class.

No specialization of sorts whatsoever.
Put ten level 20 minstrels beside eachother and there's nothing to tell them apart exept their appearance (and even that is similiar).
Would've been so much nicer if you could focus your character to some extent by choosing "paths" or something.

Lore-masters focused on wind magic or minstrels focused on healing- or battle songs.
To this I only have one comment, and it's best shown like this;

Each character has dozens probably hundreds of ways to differentiate themselves from other players in the form of character traits. Race, class, exploration, and even preference of weapons and skills will grant you extra bonus's and skills. Their are hundreds of different armors and clothing in the game as well as dyes to change the appearance of even two identical pieces also.

rungard · February 2007

are you buying the lifetime membership jack?

Randd · February 2007

Traits dont alter characters all that much, so basically every champion or guardian or captian is in essence the same. Makes it easy for the devs to balance, but makes for boring character development.

mwonderbread · February 2007

i have a question....are the servers up? because i just downloaded the game like 2 days ago but the servers were down and they still are so i just wanted to know if you guys are able to play or not

Mars505 · February 2007

Originally posted by Woodsling

Even though you do get some skills in this game there's no real choices. Everyone in a class is just the same as everyone else from the same class.

No specialization of sorts whatsoever.
Put ten level 20 minstrels beside eachother and there's nothing to tell them apart exept their appearance (and even that is similiar).
Would've been so much nicer if you could focus your character to some extent by choosing "paths" or something.

Lore-masters focused on wind magic or minstrels focused on healing- or battle songs.
To this I only have one comment, and it's best shown like this;

From your sig you are playing CoH/ CoV ? They is the exact same skill system, except CoH /CoV is way more linear. Lineage 2 has a level system to. So i'm not really sure what more you want, something like shadowbane ? Anarchy Online ? Maybe you can gove us an example a game that has a skill system that is total different . Good discussion too, cause skill system is something I rarely look at when playing a game .

Ralsar · February 2007

Originally posted by mwonderbread

i have a question....are the servers up? because i just downloaded the game like 2 days ago but the servers were down and they still are so i just wanted to know if you guys are able to play or not

Yes I played all morning, just logged off. Are you sure you are in Closed Beta? If you are doing the Stress Test this weekend then you can't play until Friday.

Woodsling · February 2007

Originally posted by Mars505

Originally posted by Woodsling

Even though you do get some skills in this game there's no real choices. Everyone in a class is just the same as everyone else from the same class.

No specialization of sorts whatsoever.
Put ten level 20 minstrels beside eachother and there's nothing to tell them apart exept their appearance (and even that is similiar).
Would've been so much nicer if you could focus your character to some extent by choosing "paths" or something.

Lore-masters focused on wind magic or minstrels focused on healing- or battle songs.
To this I only have one comment, and it's best shown like this;

From your sig you are playing CoH/ CoV ? They is the exact same skill system, except CoH /CoV is way more linear. Lineage 2 has a level system to. So i'm not really sure what more you want, something like shadowbane ? Anarchy Online ? Maybe you can gove us an example a game that has a skill system that is total different . Good discussion too, cause skill system is something I rarely look at when playing a game .

I was playing CoX for a while (but if you read the text in my sig it's quite obvious that I don't play anymore). But as you said, they have the exact same skill system of "no-variation-whatsoever". Although you do have some choices when you create your character so not every Blaster is exactly the same as the rest of the Blasters out there.

One might choose fire powers while another choose lightning... at least there are some choices. LOTR:O has none whatsoever.

As for exaples of games that has variation in skills (or at least some choices) are; Anarchy Online, Ultima Online, World of Warcraft and Early Star Wars Galaxies.

SWG (in the beginning) is probably the very best example of a great skill-system.

Mars505 · February 2007

Originally posted by Woodsling

Originally posted by Mars505

Originally posted by Woodsling

Even though you do get some skills in this game there's no real choices. Everyone in a class is just the same as everyone else from the same class.

No specialization of sorts whatsoever.
Put ten level 20 minstrels beside eachother and there's nothing to tell them apart exept their appearance (and even that is similiar).
Would've been so much nicer if you could focus your character to some extent by choosing "paths" or something.

Lore-masters focused on wind magic or minstrels focused on healing- or battle songs.
To this I only have one comment, and it's best shown like this;

From your sig you are playing CoH/ CoV ? They is the exact same skill system, except CoH /CoV is way more linear. Lineage 2 has a level system to. So i'm not really sure what more you want, something like shadowbane ? Anarchy Online ? Maybe you can gove us an example a game that has a skill system that is total different . Good discussion too, cause skill system is something I rarely look at when playing a game .

I was playing CoX for a while (but if you read the text in my sig it's quite obvious that I don't play anymore). But as you said, they have the exact same skill system of "no-variation-whatsoever".

As for exaples of games that has variation in skills (or at least some choices) are; Anarchy Online, Ultima Online, World of Warcraft and Early Star Wars Galaxies.

SWG (in the beginning) is probably the very best example of a great skill-system.

Did you try Ryzom, i do beleive that is the most advance skill system to date. I can see your concerns though , but disagree , becuase no mater how many skills you use most of the time you will pick your favorites to use over and over again. LoTRO has enough skills for that to happen imo

.

I thought your sig mean't you became a villain

Woodsling · February 2007

Mars505>>

Absolutely... I agree, there are skills and one does pick favourites. I'm not saying that there are no skills. I'm just stating the obvious; Everyone of one class are exactly the same as everyone else.

All I want are some choices, no matter how small and silly they are.

- Be able to choose if I want a black raven, white owl or grey mouse as my pet as a lore-master

- Be able to choose if my minstrel is a pure healing bard or a one that's more focused on fighting?

... and so on and so forth. Just a few things would make such a difference.

I did try Ryzom, but that game has other things I just don't like. The skill system is brilliant though.

Mars505 · February 2007

Shadowbane sounds like the correct skill system for you .

Sovrath · February 2007

Originally posted by Woodsling

Mars505>>
Absolutely... I agree, there are skills and one does pick favourites. I'm not saying that there are no skills. I'm just stating the obvious; Everyone of one class are exactly the same as everyone else.

All I want are some choices, no matter how small and silly they are.

- Be able to choose if I want a black raven, white owl or grey mouse as my pet as a lore-master

- Be able to choose if my minstrel is a pure healing bard or a one that's more focused on fighting?

... and so on and so forth. Just a few things would make such a difference.
I did try Ryzom, but that game has other things I just don't like. The skill system is brilliant though.

That's not exactly true.

If they can get the trait system "right" you will have a lot of ways to differentiate your character. The traits you get at the lower lvls are actually "upgradeable". I think that is where they will truly shine (as well as tweaks in beta). As it stands, I had to make a choice as with traits to either keep my addtional damage with "sting" ( a very fast attack) or increase my overall attack speed.

If they can make traits have significant "weight" then this will be the way to go.

njdevi66 · February 2007

Originally posted by Woodsling

Originally posted by Mars505

Originally posted by Woodsling

Even though you do get some skills in this game there's no real choices. Everyone in a class is just the same as everyone else from the same class.

No specialization of sorts whatsoever.
Put ten level 20 minstrels beside eachother and there's nothing to tell them apart exept their appearance (and even that is similiar).
Would've been so much nicer if you could focus your character to some extent by choosing "paths" or something.

Lore-masters focused on wind magic or minstrels focused on healing- or battle songs.
To this I only have one comment, and it's best shown like this;

From your sig you are playing CoH/ CoV ? They is the exact same skill system, except CoH /CoV is way more linear. Lineage 2 has a level system to. So i'm not really sure what more you want, something like shadowbane ? Anarchy Online ? Maybe you can gove us an example a game that has a skill system that is total different . Good discussion too, cause skill system is something I rarely look at when playing a game .

I was playing CoX for a while (but if you read the text in my sig it's quite obvious that I don't play anymore). But as you said, they have the exact same skill system of "no-variation-whatsoever". Although you do have some choices when you create your character so not every Blaster is exactly the same as the rest of the Blasters out there.

One might choose fire powers while another choose lightning... at least there are some choices. LOTR:O has none whatsoever.

As for exaples of games that has variation in skills (or at least some choices) are; Anarchy Online, Ultima Online, World of Warcraft and Early Star Wars Galaxies.

SWG (in the beginning) is probably the very best example of a great skill-system.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but WOW doesnt have a skill system, its class based. If your talking about the talent tree... well that really doesnt make any class much different, just has a little different role. Skill systems can be found in UO, SWG pre-cu, AND EVE. Never played Anarchy Online so i dont know much about it.

But the point is, every game is class based, and all pretty much have the same skill sets. So everyone pretty much runs around looking the same and has the same skills. We will never have a true skill based system again till someone has enough balls to make one.

Id play a skill system over a class based system anyday.

Woodsling · February 2007

You don't burst my bubble at all...

I know that WoW is class-based, but still they do have some choices when it comes to customizing your characters abilities. That's why I wrote; "games that has variation in skills (or at least some choices) are"

And I agree with your last statement; I'd rather play a skill-based game than a class based one.

Sadly there aren't that many of them out there. And those that are stinks and reeks.

As for the fact that LOTRO has traits and such. That still doesn't make a character unique in any way.

So far I haven't seen any traits that are in fact spectacular, just plain dull like "+X in might", "You can hit faster" and "You regenerate faster".

Maybe at higher levels there are traits that blow me away, but as of now (level 20-ish) my character is just like everyone else of my class.

Kemenlith · February 2007

Originally posted by Woodsling

You don't burst my bubble at all...

I know that WoW is class-based, but still they do have some choices when it comes to customizing your characters abilities. That's why I wrote; "games that has variation in skills (or at least some choices) are"
And I agree with your last statement; I'd rather play a skill-based game than a class based one.

Sadly there aren't that many of them out there. And those that are stinks and reeks.
As for the fact that LOTRO has traits and such. That still doesn't make a character unique in any way.

So far I haven't seen any traits that are in fact spectacular, just plain dull like "+X in might", "You can hit faster" and "You regenerate faster".
Maybe at higher levels there are traits that blow me away, but as of now (level 20-ish) my character is just like everyone else of my class.

Also, the game is still in beta, and they have already stated there will be continuous updates, add-ons, and patches. Also paid expansions. So they might now be diverse now, but who is to say they won't in the future? Besides, FFXI had less skills/abilities than this and people still played it.

Sovrath · February 2007

Originally posted by Woodsling

As for the fact that LOTRO has traits and such. That still doesn't make a character unique in any way.

So far I haven't seen any traits that are in fact spectacular, just plain dull like "+X in might", "You can hit faster" and "You regenerate faster".
Maybe at higher levels there are traits that blow me away, but as of now (level 20-ish) my character is just like everyone else of my class.

Well, 1-20 in many games, characters are the same. Not all, don't take it literally.

And as I've said, I've started noticing that traits get beefed up the higher you go. That is indicative that there is a difference. So a guardian who can hit faster will do more dps over time as opposed to a Guardian who has more hitpoints and faster in combat morale regen might be even "more of a tank".

You don't think that that makes a class play differently? At least in theory. This is still beta and a "real" beta. I've seen many changes in the two betas I've been in.

Now, that is not to say they will succeed. But if they do succeed then you will find enough differences as you level to make your character unique "within his/her chosen class".

As far as the skill system. I've seen so many people say they want this but then I've seen players in games advertise slots in groups but players had to have "x" in a particular skill system or they weren't wanted.

Would I want a skill system game? Sure, as long as one could choose something over another. However, I also don't mind picking a class and then having differences in that class.

Because in the end, that is what players are doing. They are choosing a role and tweaking their character to fit that role. So why not have them choose a class and then have them alter that class?

Cerion · February 2007

Though I too would like a skill-based system (or something like Oblivion), few games seem to employ this system these days. LOTRO's trait system does offer some differentiation with class, race, virtues and legendary choices. Are they significant enough? For some people they are while for others they are not. Oddly enough at this point, I find the Virtues to be most diversifying but easiest to get. I like the fact that I can use a bit of roleplaying to decide if my character has 'wisdom' (a virute) or is compassionate (virtue). So far I've choosen my virtues based on the idea of my character.

As for my race traits, I'm trying to decide if my Elven hunter has enmity with orcs or enmity with goblins (each gives a different trait).

Also, there's dozens of different titles that your character can win through combat or exploration or quest completion. This helps in diversifying your character.

Mars505 · February 2007

Yup , i was playing and inspected the traits as well at titles and thy play a key roll on your characters output performance. So you could consider the traits to be stat points that you can build up. Now i have to learn every trait to know which ones would benefit my character the best.

Kemenlith · February 2007

Originally posted by Cerion

Though I too would like a skill-based system (or something like Oblivion), few games seem to employ this system these days. LOTRO's trait system does offer some differentiation with class, race, virtues and legendary choices. Are they significant enough? For some people they are while for others they are not. Oddly enough at this point, I find the Virtues to be most diversifying but easiest to get. I like the fact that I can use a bit of roleplaying to decide if my character has 'wisdom' (a virute) or is compassionate (virtue). So far I've choosen my virtues based on the idea of my character.
As for my race traits, I'm trying to decide if my Elven hunter has enmity with orcs or enmity with goblins (each gives a different trait).
Also, there's dozens of different titles that your character can win through combat or exploration or quest completion. This helps in diversifying your character.

I can see it happening already, someones gonna troll about how there are not enough traits and titles early in the game and that LOTRO thus is not very diverse. Oh, wait, this has already happened....

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Skills seem limited.

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