PROOF the Size of the World is SMALL (beta tester)

Mars505 · February 2007

I always liked Quality over Quantity myself, each their own

As well as the ability to have a finsidh polished product , that gives them better time to work on a solid expansion

Cerion · February 2007

Originally posted by Nikoz78

Originally posted by virtuella

No it has not a gazzilion zones like you say.

It has 9 zones within Eriador,get your facts straight.

Did you even try to explore the world at all or did you just run around with a level 10 nuub character in a newbie zone?

The world is somewhat small but if you took all 9 zones and placed in a line it will take you good 2 hours to run West/east.

Umm... even a lot of buildings are instanced. Those are zone too. You must be kidding. There is very little shared environment.

Actually, when ever I start a new MMO I find great joy trying to make it to all the areas at low level.

In SWG I went all around Endor as a Novice Marksman w/ no skill boxes. In EQII I ran from Qeynos to Freeport at level 2. In Vanguard I went all over the place at level 1 (lol). Just to name a few of the MMO's in the last 5 years that I've played. I'm pretty good at steering through aggro.

In LOTRO I went almost everywhere before level 6. It was easy. Again, are you kidding?

I'm talking about how small the SCALE of the world is. Scale!

Also, the characters look childish when they run. The animations leave a lot to be desired....

I love LOTR as much as the next crusty geek. But it is what it is.

This game was easy to polish because it's tiny. Even with Vanguards faults at least it has massive potential. Only a blind person could not see that. But this is not LOTRO vs. Vanguard. They are different beasts.

Okay, you simply do not make sense.

So you went 'all over at level 6' in LOTRO. By your very admission, you went 'everywhere' in Vanguard at level 1. So it seems LOTRO is more difficult than Vanguard by your very words.

Second, LOTRO is not 'saturated' with instances. The game world is easily 80% open and about 20% instanced.

As for the distance from Buckleberry Ferry to the Brandywine Bridge, you claim that 5 minutes would be better, or 10. That my friend is a strawman's arguement. Why? Because if the game were that large, you'd complain that a 20 mile trip should take longer than <insert random time to prove an arguement>. Your post isn't an attempt to critque the game on its merits, but some rather illogical attempts to prove your superiority to yourself. (at least I hope it was to yourself, because it certainly didn't work for the rest of us).

oronisi · February 2007

Nonetheless, you all can argue over whether or not the OP did what he says he did at lvl 6. Truth is, the gameworld is small. Maybe not the smallest in all MMOs, but small compared to how VAST Tolkien's works make the world out to be. I mean, there were whole chapters (and long chunks of movie for the moviegoers) about the hobbits' travels from one area to another. Enough to make stories about and have memorable scenes. In the game, those journeys have been reduced to a couple skirmishes, in a super-saturated MMO world.

If it were my call, I wouldn't change the content, # of enemies, or anything else, I would just scale the world up 150-200% at least. LOTR was epic in part because it was huge. I definitely feel like they missed that little tidbit when creating this game.

virtuella · February 2007

Originally posted by Cabe2323

The world is currently is 50,000,000 sq meters. Which isn't extremely large, but it has the potential to be huge.
Eriador is all that is currently open. Here is a copy of just the North west part of Middle Earth. The world doesnt seem so small knowing they will be adding all of this into the game and more.

I think the troll means the problem is the scaling.

Look on the map and see how huge Eriador really is in that map.

Eriador in the game is 50 million sq meter and thats a little bit more than 7 Km x 7 Km.

Look On the map your refeering too and see how big 7 Km x 7 Km is.

Even bree town on that map is larger than that.

Imagine turbine should use that scale.

Then it would take you 2 hours to run through Bree town.

They have to scale it down.

If they wanted to keep it correctly scaled then the current world in LOTRO would have to be approx 600 Km x 375 Km according to your map.

That's 225 billion sq meters.

4500 bigger than the current game.

Lol i would love to see Turbine fill up that game with content

Or how about this.

Player A sends a tell to his friend player B.

A:Hey there i'm down in the shire where are you?

B:Uhmm i'm up in misty mountains,why?

A:I wanted to group with you.

B:ahh ok sure i come.I will be there is 180 hours ok.

A: !!!!!!!

BadSpock · February 2007

Originally posted by Shoal

Originally posted by Nikoz78

I decided to conduct a test to demonstrate how small this Middle Earth really is.

With my level 6 Guardian Man, I ran from the Buckleberry Ferry to the Brandywine Bridge.

In the books this is a distance of 20 MILES between the two. Heck, even an NPC told my at the ferry that the bridge was "20 miles to the North."

So how long did it take me to run from the Buckleberry Ferry to the Brandywine Bridge?

67 seconds.

All I can say is what a HUGE letdown.

I worship LOTR. Grew up with the books + the Hobbit, watched the three animated versions a hundred times as a kid and fell in love with Peter Jackson's live-action film interpretations.

I am both a MMORPG geek and huge LOTR nerd.

I should love this game. And I almost DO. But once again Turbine has butchered an epic IP (see also: D&D Online).

The world is chock-full of zones and instances. And I mean SATURATED with them. Takes you right out of the game before you even get into it.

Because of the tiny (puny, even) world and a gazillion zones, there is almost ZERO sense of grand adventure. And what is LOTR without that?

The game is very well made. I'll give it that. Very polished. And the devs are trying to show some integrity and stay true to Tolkien's vision by allowing less-than-PC content (smoking!).

But their (obviously) hard work and attention to certain detail is wasted by the flawed world design. It does not matter how many neat little gimmicks are present in the game.

The scale of the world is: 20 miles = 67 seconds of running.

Yeah, 'epic.'

Ya know, Chunk, it's not the SIZE of the world, it is how you use it.

I think that this is a lesson that YOU had better learn sooner rather than later.

Just kidding. It is a lesson we ALL need to learn.

For MMORPGs, it is called 'Senic Compression'. If the world were on a 'grander' scale, so to speak, it would be vast and empty. There would not be enough programmers available, nor enough time, to fill it with meaningful content. *cough* V:SoH *cough*

So, be happy that it only takes a bit over a minute to make that journey. Remember that BOTH the books and the movies skip over ALL of the tedious travel time and only show the exciting parts. Right?

that's SO not true the movies have like 3 scenes where they are running or riding across some open fields.... lol sorry. this post is ridiculous, i'm signed up for stress test this weekend, i'll let ya'll know how "big" it feels then

andriona · February 2007

Maybe you like the timesink of running 1 hr to get to a group meeting point...or 30 minutes to get across the river to turn in the quest...

If that's what you like, then LOTRO isn't for you. It's plenty big enough, IMO, and they've been expanding areas in even newb areas like Bree/the Shire in the past couple months. It takes enough time to run around doing quests that you don't feel like the world is super small, but it isn't frustrating either. And simply the lay of the land and the variety of the landscape makes it feel alot bigger than it is.

Sovrath · February 2007

Originally posted by heerobya

that's SO not true the movies have like 3 scenes where they are running or riding across some open fields.... lol sorry. this post is ridiculous, i'm signed up for stress test this weekend, i'll let ya'll know how "big" it feels then

Make sure you:

a, get out of the starter area

b, get off the road and explore.

Cabe2323 · February 2007

I know he was talking about scalability. What I meant is look at the size of that map. That is only the North West corner of the world. Imagine that Turbine does well and is able to produce content addon's like they did with Asheron's Call. That means that the current world size could double or triple within the next year. Now lets say the game keeps doing well and they keep adding landmass and new content for the next 8 years (thats how long they have been adding content to Asheron's Call). Wouldn't it suck if it took 10 minutes to run 20 miles ingame when the world is somewhere in the neigbhorhood of 500,000,000 sq meters instead of 50,000,000 Sq meters. I don't know about you, but I like to actually get from place to place in a resonable time. Lord of the Rings doesnt have portals like Asheron's Call does to get your around the world. I mean really about the only transportation mentioned in the book are ships, row boats, and horses, and the ships aren't used a whole lot. So doing a whole lot of walking or even horse riding isn't exactly a fun time. It is imo a totally uneeded time sink. Why make everywhere take forever to get to?

Grindalyx · February 2007

Here are the actual ingame maps from the game.

http://s177.photobucket.com/albums/w215/Kersleaf/

Mars505 · February 2007

Looks Big to me, and it is easy to get to where you want to go.

dendea · February 2007

nikoz shouldnt you be trying to defend your unfinished, subpar game back at the vanguard forums instead of trying to cause trouble else where?

SpiritofGame · February 2007

Vanguard is BIGGER!

LOTRO is BETTER!

NGESUCKS · February 2007

im beta testing to its not that small but i cant say its huge either at the same time. It sure gives you the feel of openness and that its huge when your playing. When i tried D&D it seemed so closed in and closterphobic. If they gave you a mule at least at get go it wouldnt be so anoying and seemed dragged out as for instances ive only seen 2 so far and it was story related. The towns are where u can run from town to town and they have the crappy stable thing which is poorly done talk about a mindf$ck LOL you cant have a horse until lvl 30 but let u have one for a second that u cant control but at least u get to see it lmao. Overall the monster play is the reason im playing monster play is the real game. Th regular game is always gonna be compared to WOW and the other 2 million fantasy mmo's out ther until they make the players looks and evrything look a little less cartoony. Dont get me wrong it looks awesome but i dont think anyone can say it doesnt look like WOW in some ways. I really wish they made the monster play a sperate game or at get go that is really gonna hurt them in the long run

Jackdog · February 2007

it's not the size but how you use it, or so I have been told

I have been beta testing since October have not gotten bored nor have I traveled to every interesting place or done every quest

Tiah · February 2007

Men should be automatically excluded from reporting the size of anything!

virtuella · February 2007

Originally posted by Tiah

Men should be automatically excluded from reporting the size of anything!

WHAT?

are you saying this is not 25 Cm [-------------------]

FikusOfAhazi · February 2007

Originally posted by Nikoz78

I decided to conduct a test to demonstrate how small this Middle Earth really is.

With my level 6 Guardian Man, I ran from the Buckleberry Ferry to the Brandywine Bridge.

In the books this is a distance of 20 MILES between the two. Heck, even an NPC told my at the ferry that the bridge was "20 miles to the North."

So how long did it take me to run from the Buckleberry Ferry to the Brandywine Bridge?

67 seconds.

All I can say is what a HUGE letdown.

I worship LOTR. Grew up with the books + the Hobbit, watched the three animated versions a hundred times as a kid and fell in love with Peter Jackson's live-action film interpretations.

I am both a MMORPG geek and huge LOTR nerd.

I should love this game. And I almost DO. But once again Turbine has butchered an epic IP (see also: D&D Online).

The world is chock-full of zones and instances. And I mean SATURATED with them. Takes you right out of the game before you even get into it.

Because of the tiny (puny, even) world and a gazillion zones, there is almost ZERO sense of grand adventure. And what is LOTR without that?

The game is very well made. I'll give it that. Very polished. And the devs are trying to show some integrity and stay true to Tolkien's vision by allowing less-than-PC content (smoking!).

But their (obviously) hard work and attention to certain detail is wasted by the flawed world design. It does not matter how many neat little gimmicks are present in the game.

The scale of the world is: 20 miles = 67 seconds of running.

Yeah, 'epic.'

Learn2troll

If thats the worst thing you can come up with..then im buying it for sure. Buckleberry ferry to the brandywine bridge should take at least 5 minutes therefore the game sucks and the IP is butchered? I feel bad for laughing. Thats gotta be the worst attempt at Hatin' I've ever read.

You need to understand what type of game this is, and who the target audience is. This game will bring alot of people who have never played an MMOrpg before. Those people arent buying the game to experience the 20 miles you talk about. they want to see Bree, the barrows, the lone-lands, weathertop, the misty mountains ect.. Not to mention, the IP holder, the ones who can say, "no, theres 20 miles there, that has to be in the game" obviously didnt agree with you. The game will be a huge success. No amount of trolling can stop that now. Especially when all you can come up with is the world is tiny. Guess thats all Vanguard has on this game though..at least you realized that.

If you want to hurt Vanguards competition..trolling this forum wont work. You should ask for some adivce maybe.

Just givin ya shit man. Its all in fun.

Jackdog · February 2007

ohmygawd

just because of this post it has fallen to the #6 spot at Amazon.com, still #1 at EB/Gamestop amd # 10 at Best buy though.

LordZon · February 2007

Did you run your way there or walk?

Walking speed in these games is often a 1/3 or less as fast as running. Did you follow the path there or did you cut right through the woods?

You may have broke part of the illusion by making a bee line. I'm not in the beta so these are just guesses.

Tautology · February 2007

Originally posted by Nikoz78

I decided to conduct a test to demonstrate how small this Middle Earth really is.

With my level 6 Guardian Man, I ran from the Buckleberry Ferry to the Brandywine Bridge.

In the books this is a distance of 20 MILES between the two. Heck, even an NPC told my at the ferry that the bridge was "20 miles to the North."

So how long did it take me to run from the Buckleberry Ferry to the Brandywine Bridge?

67 seconds.

This, the lack of character customisation, the "childish" graphics (Just my opinion, was expecting something more mature kind of looking, e.g. AOC), and the boring crafting are the biggest let down of the game.

Ciredric · February 2007

Oh wow a level 6 no less, you are so experienced as to even understand what you are talking about.

At least when you did your run the game did not crap out on you like it does in Vanguard.

Kemenlith · February 2007

Originally posted by Tautology

Originally posted by Nikoz78

I decided to conduct a test to demonstrate how small this Middle Earth really is.

With my level 6 Guardian Man, I ran from the Buckleberry Ferry to the Brandywine Bridge.

In the books this is a distance of 20 MILES between the two. Heck, even an NPC told my at the ferry that the bridge was "20 miles to the North."

So how long did it take me to run from the Buckleberry Ferry to the Brandywine Bridge?

67 seconds.

This, the lack of character customisation, the "childish" graphics (Just my opinion, was expecting something more mature kind of looking, e.g. AOC), and the boring crafting are the biggest let down of the game.

I don't really think the graphcs are childish at all. I think they did a great job of creating a graphical world of Lord of the Rings. Yeah its different from the movie, but lets not get into that....

OBK1 · February 2007

I'm hoping to get into beta soon to see for myself...but it could be argued that the books are very much about the journey (both the physcial and the development of character). Therefore I think it really degrades from the immersiveness and epic feel if the world does indeed feel tiny. But then of course you have to take into account that they hopefully will be realeasing expansions that will include the whole of Middle Earth and then you simply can't make the world on a huge scale since it would be impossible to make it work gameplay wise.

And well yes, I love Vanguard too and it is a great game, but it is also a buggy game at this point.

Nikoz78 · February 2007

The books and live-action movies are all about the journey. The story is literally about Frodo and the Fellowship's journey across the lands of Middle Earth to destroy the One Ring.

How can you have EPIC ADVENTURE in such a limited enviornment?

Face it. The games is small in it's scope, as intended (WoW-clone with very impressive LOTR lore/quests added). It's an easy-mode game designed to attract LOTR's fans (who don't play MMO's) to the MMO scene. Deal with it.

And as I said before: it is not hard to polish such a small game.

Hell, I might even still play it. That's just the nature my inner crusty geek. I love LOTR. But the game is a let down in many areas to be sure.

Don't flame me for having an opinion and don't go around insulting people while hiding behind your keyboards. It just makes you all seem so pathetic. Try being friendly sometime - might just make some friends.

I'm out.

/peace

dendea · February 2007

Nikoz for real man we know Lotro isnt for you, but for the love of god stop trying to make this game into that crappy game they call VG.

Not every one wants a very large landmass with nothing on it.

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