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General: Community Spotlight: Treatment of IPs
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
This week, Community Manager Laura Genender returns to highlight a conversation on the boards that focuses on major IPs and the ways that they are turned into MMORPGs.
Star Wars Galaxies, Matrix Online, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons & Dragons Online, Warhammer Online, even World of Warcraft - like any other media, our MMO industry has become host to a slew of games based on another IP (Intellectual Property). This week on the forums, poster Tristaan brought up the industry's use of IPs.
More specifically, Tristaan brought up the industry's misuse of IPs. "Developers have succeeded in destroying Star Wars, the Matrix, and LOTR," Tristaan says. "These should be on top...they are not and they won't be."
Read the whole column here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
Star Wars Galaxies had it right, initially. Their slogan said it all, something to the effect of "Live the greatest Star Wars Saga of all time. Yours."
That is how you do justice to an IP. What happened with SWG? They changed it so you'd be "part of the story" interacting with the main character in events from the movies, letting you choose between the same archetypes the characters in the movies represent. And what happen? Flop and die like a fish out of water.
They are trying to make MMORPG's too main stream. The success of WoW and other MMORPG's has gotten to the head's of developers. In order to do an IP right you have to have NEW stories, NEW content, not just relive the same experience from the books/movies. There are other genre's of games for that.
Players want to see what it'd be like to "live" in the Star Wars universe, the Warcraft universe, Matrix universe, to live in Middle Earth.
If players want to BE Luke Skywalker, BE Thrall, BE Neo, BE Gandalf there is a WHOLE host of games out their of various genres to live out those fantasies.
MMO's are suppose to be about creating your own character w/ your own destiny in the world's you've seen and read about. World of Warcraft did it 100% right with the addition of The Caverns of Time. This gives them the opportunity to send players to the different events of the Warcraft universe and fight along side the key characters. But the rest of the game is devoted to YOUR adventures, YOUR destiny.
It's all about finding a balance between having your character impact the world like in a single player game, and having your character simply a part of the world as a massively multiplayer online game should be.
If you want to do both, you have to have instanced content that developes the story and changes the world for you and your character, interaction / relationships with the stories "main characters" all for you.... but then have the rest of the game world devoted to the idea that you are one among thousands/millions.
Or have the different zones/areas you go to represent different points in time along the storyline of the game kind of like Guild Wars did. But this means you can never go back to areas in the past. So it's allll about finding a balance.
This is 1000000000% times more important an a game using a pre-established IP.
that's my 2 cents
How can a judgement be passed on LOTRO when the game hasnt even been released yet?
Frankly, ive learnt not to get excited about movies turned MMORPG. As you say the developers will have to consult the IP holder on numerous matters, making development more time consuming. Worse case scenario the IP Holder is a console player, he/she doesnt like what he/she is playing and makes demands on the Developers which affects the game...
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LotRO has done a good job of putting the player on their own story while at the same time, helping Frodo and the Fellowship. There are other stories to tell in Middle Earth and thats what's happing in the game. The main charachters of the books left a wake of bad things and stirrred up trouble. It is the players job to clean up the mess and explore why things are happening. NPC's even comment on your great deeds as you save the shire from being overrun by goblins or the Dwarf lands from being corrupted by an evil dwarf.
Give a man fire and he''s warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he''s warm the rest of his life.
I agree about ruining IPs but that is what happens when there are rules about what can be done. Give developers more freedom and let them start with the base IP but come up with a new conflict or something to get the players into. Let it be some time in the future or past. Matrix Online had some really great ideas but seem to have rushed getting the game out. If that game had waited a few years or more for some new stuff and ways to do things it might have been better.
On another note though about LotRO is that I think it is wrong because I don't want to play during the time of the fellowship. Set it during the time of the first huge war or something. This game will never have me look at it for that reason. I loved the books but have no desire to play during that time period. There are so many other hints and stories out there less known and allow for much more open play in my mind. That is just an opinion and hope all who do play it enjoy it.
Personally, I love movie or book IP's going to MMORPG. I don't always like the particular game, or what they turn into in some cases (yes SOE we're looking at you, you big numbskulls!) but I'd really like to see more.
Not that I think we should do away from original game ideas either, I think games like Saga of Ryzom or The Chronicles of Spellborn are very important but if given the chance to get back into the Star Wars universe, in a decent game, I'd jump at the chance.
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In any criticism I have of LotRO it certainly isn't mistreatment of the IP. I've been a Tolkien fanatic and I'm one of those people who thought the movies mistreated the books. The game however completely does Justice to Middle-Earth as much as a MMORPG can.
While other IP MMORPGs have been awful and there isn't one I like, LotRO online was done excellently and if only the game mechanics/design felt like less of a replay of other MMOs I probably would have stayed with it.
I'd like to point out that major IP holders don't always police their own products effectively - SWG and LucasArts Entertainment Corporation are a great example. The SWG game is set between Episodes 4 (A New Hope) and Episode 5 (The Empire Strikes Back). It is supposed to be a time when Jedi are all but extinct, according to Obi-Wan Kenobi. Now I realize that about 99.9% of everyone who signed up for SWG came there to be a Jedi, which brings into question why the hell they set the game in that specific time period, but the fact that LEC signed off on this game is ludicrous. First, there were no Jedi because the coding for the prof wasn't complete, then $OE sent out a patch that permitted unlocking via the "master 5 profs, guess which ones" route, then came holocrons which told you up to 4 of the 5 profs, then came The Old Man and the Village of Aurilia, and now in the excrement known as the NGE version of the game Jedi is a starting profession. One of the main complaints the former subscribers of SWG have against the NGE is that by making Jedi a starting profession they have made pretty much worthless the years of effort these players have put into their online persona and consequent development. If LEC had done their job properly there would be no Jedi in SWG, instead there are armies of them running around Mos Eisley, Coruscant, Theed, etc. Well, there were before the NGE, but since the populations have dropped so precipitously that complaint isn't quite as strong as it used to be. Either way, the blame ultimately lies with LEC for permitting blatantly anti-canon aspects into this game. Yes, everyone joined to play Jedi, but most of found out how much fun the rest of the game was and stayed for that. CleffyII's point, that the future in which the game is set isn't as fun as the past, doesn't hold for SWG - too bad LEC completely ignored their own prior and subsequent IP history in SWG.
SWG is an interesting case study - it was open enough that it escaped the stereotype about MMOs that Kurush makes, that there is really only one thing to do and that is kill mobs. In the pre-NGE SWG, many players spent their online time as entertainers, or crafters, or docs, or politicians, etc. Many players had toons that never killed a single mob. Too bad the current game has pretty much been nerfed/reduced to the level Kurush describes, though. The sandbox basis of SWG was terrific - it did feel much larger than most of the other games.
I would agree that SWG has been destroyed. The NGE just flat out sucks, as my quote says. The fault, however, is not exclusively that of the developer - LEC has permitted some absolutely bone-headed breaches of SW canon that have contributed significantly to the downfall of this game. Jedi should never have been a starting prof, and probably should never have been any kind of prof at all. If they want a Jedi-based MMO, make KOTOR the MMO or somesuch. SWG is in many ways a mix of great ideas (most of the belonging to Raph Koster and his crew) and a rash of unpredecented moronity by $OE and LEC as it regards the misuse of a big-time IP. My advice to LEC - first, give someone else the damned IP license. Anybody else. Then get the hell out of their way. Such a developer will of course want subscribers, who won't come if said developer ignores canon, so it is in their own interest follow canon rather closely. LEC, you have screwed up a lot of things SW related lately, so please quit meddling, go away, and take Jar-Jar with you. Just leave a talented and visionary company with the IP license.
SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
Now Playing: World of Warcrack
Forum Terrorist
Star Wars thought they could make a world without Jedi. Then they thought they could add an alpha class and it wouldn't be a problem. Then they thought they could make changes that would greatly increase the number of Jedi without effecting their game. Then they thought making the game more WoW like would be the right thing.
Matrix set their game after the movies, but because they didn't have much experience making mmos they made a number of bad choices and lacked the capital to keep the game afloat when it didn't hit it big.
The other problem with IPs is you got to pay for it and you have to keep paying. What this means is you have to draw X amount of additional people above what another non-ip mmo does in order to be in the black.
For the most part I agree............
It seems that devs have the misconception that we layers want to be told where to go and what to do. I dont want to be the main character of the story from the books or movies I want to be the main character in MY OWN story.
BOHICA = Bend over here it comes again. They are turning Shadowrun into an "MMO" now but basically its just a persistent version of counterstrike. Another prime example of an IP that could have been an amazing MMORPG but will now just be another short lived FPS.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Freemen
I agree with the person who said that we want to live in that world, not see the famous characters out of the books and movies. Lets look at a few IP's so I can explain.
Star Wars- Star Wars is one of those IP's where you want to live in that world, not follow a secondary story arc like LOTRO has done with their game. Seeing famous characters is one thing, even being trained some by Master Yoda or another Jedi Master (time-line permitting), but going on a bunch of little kill and fetch quests along the way sucks. With the Star Wars IP, you have an already built in quest objective and that is to stop the opposite faction from ruling the galaxy. While you are stopping the other faction, you are also trying to survive by making contacts with the hutts, black sun or whatever and also exploring on your own.
Dungeons and Dragons- I believe that in this case people want the D20 rulesets and class system. No need for a skill-based MMORPG here or a sandbox. Dungeons and Dragons was always about doing quests. Those quests were just Epic in nature and were in a large explorable world. This can be done now with current technology and any amateur story writer could write a nice Epic quest line for people to take part in that has nothing to do with killing 10 rats and bringing back their tails.
Lord of The Rings- This is a tough one, because the movies (not sure about the books) did not focus on anyone other than the main character; whereas in Star Wars you got to know the farmer, the entertainers and the other guys that weren't the main characters. In LoTR, people know the world and the main characters and that's it. No one wants to see a bunch of Gandolph's and Legolas's running around, so playing the main characters is out of the story. So instead, we are relegated to playing a much lesser role in the story if the game is quest based, which in my opinion would suck. So having a skill-based system in an open explorable world would be better. It would be better to build up skills and join a legion to help fight off the Orcs or to learn some other skills and help the war effort by crafting armor and weapons. Not running some unimportant quest line that the devs try to convince makes a difference to Frodo's quest.
Those are three examples, and I am sure that is enough to see what I am talking about. IP's can be made into great MMORPGs, but they have to do it right and this may prove to be a lot harder than they want to work or may go against what is currently mainstream (ala WoW). Not every IP can work as a sandbox game and not everyone can work as a quest based game. The sooner the Devs realize this before taking on the responsibility of creating an IP MMORPG, the better.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
You cant turna movie into an MMOG. You can use the story/setting/universe to set something up similar. But as others have said, you need to involve the player on their own quest/story within that universe.
Who the hell wants to BE someone else who has already done something. We want to do what we want. In short freedom within a virtual universe.