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EverQuest II overview (for those that don't know much about it)
Serien
Member CommonPosts: 8,460
- Lucan D'Lere
"We shall always endeavor to become who we are in our dreams. In defiance of the nightmares all of Norrath must endure."
- Antonia Bayle
EverQuest II is a parallel online universe to the hugely successful gaming phenomenon EverQuest. Featuring breathtaking graphics and a vast, beautiful game world to explore, EverQuest II sets new standards in graphical realism as players are immersed in the game's epic storyline with thousands of other players online. Players will encounter hundreds of unique creatures as they journey across the majestic landscape of rolling hills, lush forests, and bustling cities. Thousands of new items, hundreds of magical new spells, and unlimited adventure await all who enter the world of EverQuest II.
Features
- A new, massive online world for thousands of players to explore, filled with danger, adventure and mystery
- Unparalleled character customization capabilities. In addition to thousands of armor, weapons and items users can equip, players will be able to customize their character's facial appearance to an incredible level of detail and personalization
- 16 races, 50 levels and 24 classes with a branching system that allows players to choose their class as they advance
- Trade skills available to all player classes
- Player-owned real estate (such as apartments, homes, and guild houses)
- No race/class limitations, allowing players to truly choose who they want to be in game
- New user friendly game mechanics with reduced learning curve for both new and seasoned players
- More than 160 unique creature types, from Orcs and Goblins to huge dragons and menacing Living Statues
- Incentives for current EverQuest subscribers
- A state-of-the-art, cinematic quality 3D graphics engine capable of improving as hardware technology advances
- State-of-the art combat, spell and skill systems
Comments
Raiding > grouping > soloing
This is the way they are heading for rewarding players in EQ2, and rewards DOES matter! If you want to be the best at anything, in doubt refer to the above chart, it is the road to success! This little 1 line chart matter more then 90% of the points you bring from the EQ2 general description...Yet, for some publicity reasons, they try to trap soloers and groupers in their game...I wish they fail miserably and are stick with raiders only!
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Thats a silly comment. I have raided most everything in EQ pre PoP and a good portion of that as well and I can honestly say the most fun I have had and most often has been single groups doing dungeons and such regardless of what equipment we had.
I realize your on a crusade against raiding in mmorpgs (and to a large degree I prefer non raid oriented stuff myself) but your painting it in a very radical and unrealistic light. EQ was ALL about grouping much like EQ2 will be. Having the raids available added another dimension to the game and admittedly affected the rest of the game as well but not to the degree that grouping wasnt still the main purpose and fun part of the game.
*shrug*
Call me evil if you want.
But I know that...
Raiders will come in group and be preferred in many groups because they earn stuff raiding.
Yup, I am on a Crusade against Raiding getting best grouping rewards!
I have no shame in admitting that much! Exactly like I would be on a crusade if all MMORPGs would put Epics weapons to those that win Chocobo races alones.
Am I silly?
Nah, I just want the rewards to be tuned with the activity they are linked to.
The reward for someone like me is about 30% of the fun I have in the game, while been a minority, if you start with a 0, you cant score high!
You confuse raid available and high end content raid tuned only. Been group tuned and giving the best grouping tools to folks that might not group at all while not rewarding hardcores groupers? How silly is that?
And raiders been the best group members make it a 0 score result with no more consideration on the topic for me.
You cannot expect someone to play any other game to be good in another game, and raiding is definitely another game then grouping!
Give all Canadians + 100 HP/level and say folks that live in Canada earn more respect then anyone else in the world and thereby deserve it and you pretty much have a similar result then giving group edges to raiders! Anyone(almost) can move in Canada after all if they care for it! *grin*
EDIT: For each person that raid and relatively appreciate it, I am sure there are 10 players that left the game pretty soon after, and very disgusted at the RAID OR PERISH attitude the game have in the high end grouping world. The next step you know, they will make best groupers dedicated tradeskillers only! *scorn at the nearest dev* This is not acceptable, and I will not be afraid to complain a lot, I am a customer! I expect to make fun, doing things I like, and if I like grouping, how dare someone enforce anything but grouping on me in order to achieve grouping uberness? Make it as challenging or as farming oriented as you want, but make it in a group for group uberness!
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I am not calling you evil or even completely wrong Anofalye. There is no question that raid rewards were better then group rewards in EQ and that it affected your characters overall performance in a group.
The thing is thousands of EQ players never raided and enjoyed the grouping aspects of the game without it being a big issue to them. I had many characters in EQ, some were in big guilds and raided a lot, some never raided. The ones I never raided with were still fun to play all the way to the level cap and I rarely had any problem getting a group with either. Most of the game is what you make of it yourself.
There is nothing wrong or biased with rewarding people who raid with better equipment. Should there be games where groups are capable of getting the best stuff? Yes. That doesn't mean there shouldn't be games where raiding is available to those who want or enjoy it.
Saying you hope they fail because they support a type of play thats not in line with what you want is what I consider silly. I don't like pvp much myself but I don't hope all pvp games fail just because its not my thing. There are people who really enjoy different styles of play and thats something we all need to respect more.
In summary I think both EQ1 and from what I have read EQ2 are very group oriented and in no way require you to raid to have fun. If you disagree with that I can understand but please realize that these games do appeal to many types of players.
Game Rankings
City of Heroes: W00T!!!!!
FFXI: Ok
Lineage II: No....
SWG: get out....
Well,
EQ staff stated that they where doing a PRO-group game, and they plan to enhance and focus the gameplay around group. I was a soloer that QUIT EQ back then.
So...I give them a try, and I trust those words! I focus on the group thing, and when I first realize it was a lie and it was about raiding, I try hard, like very hard. Then I feel BETRAYED by the game devs, nothing less.
They told, a retired soloer, that they focus the game around GROUPS, this is what they told folks. This is why I wish them to fail and I dont care for PvP games, no PvP games say I could be a happy carebear in their game, if they would and I would have trust them, I would be bitching at them now!
Can someone make a happy life and enjoy it in Iraq? Yes, but that dont mean Iraq is the best place to live at all, and it need quite strong folks to enjoy life in there...I am a spoiled North American, do you expect I will enjoy getting the bones of some raiders? That is far from enought!
And dont tell me you dont see many soloers/groupers (I was a soloer, I am a grouper now) feel very ANGRY at EQ. If EQ would never have say they where FOCUSING the gameplay around groups, I would not be angry at them, but I believe in them, and they *BETRAY* me.
(Now dont read me wrong, this is not THAT bad, especially if this is the worst thing in my life, I cant complain much about it I guess hehe)
When a Politician dont respect his promises, he get to hear about it a lot, and for me, the Devs staff is the politicians worlds in the MMORPG.
Do you see me bitch at any MMORPG beside EQ? No, I will say they are a waste of time or something like that, but I am not emotional about it! DAoC lack from the start, they always will, but they never lie to me, I just quit! EQ let me believe they focus on the group play and because I didnt think much over it, I believe them without checking much my stuff, so they actually *BETRAY* me in a form.
I dont care about the heartless man that let folks starve to death, but a *paladin* that say he would save the world that let folks starve is in for some MAJOR beating! *grin*
Anyone can make fun, you dont even need a game to make fun, so certainly with ANYTHING someone can make fun. I always try to reach the top, in a game that was supposed to be group focused, I was denied it, for no real logical argument, challenge can come in many form, a tradeskill or soloing thing can be as hard as any raid, it just require more thinking. I dont care if I dont see Qarm or whatever, I certainly care if I cant try to get the best *insert anything relevant for the type of game I am playing(so yes, gear in the grouping world does matter a lot)*. If I failed because I cant meet the challenge, fine, if I failed because I dont play that completely different game(a game with 5 players and a games with 11+ players is certainly not the same game)...
If EQ would not have say they where Group oriented/friendly/focused, I would never have this topic, or at least, not in this form and certainly not as virulent. They did say, and they still maintain that EQ2 is solo friendly, what a (*&^%$*& bunch of lies! They are in for some arguments! They barely bear the solo and the grouping game and folks can make fun or not in it, they are certainly not friendly or oriented or focused, and as long as they say they are, they have an insignificant angry me to deal with! They lie to get more players, they should not lie and just change the game, it need them to work...and if they dont want to do this work, they need to stop to lie and say they *bear* solo/grouping, no more! Since the system is submissive to another.
Raiding is not an option or possible in EQ, it is the only way to be the best at anything, thereby it is the only real game they offer, all the others games are *mini games* that they present as full real main games, which is a lie!
When I buy a game, I always expect to be able to play the game until the top and the end of it. The very few games that include mini games like the Chocobo Races *massive hatred for FF X* are very very very rare, and usually it is not as bad as EQ was. When I buy EQ, I was convince I could be the best groupers without raiding, in fact, that thought didnt even cross my mind 1 moment, as they say they where solo friendly and group oriented! At this time, I didnt even know gear matter, since in most games, gear is trivial and secondary! I was in for a very crude and bad realisation, that I need gear, and for that, I need to raid. This was not clear from the start, and they know it, very well, yet, they lie to make me buy the game and play!
I only have praises for game like Dragon Empire, Dark and Light and Guild Wars. They dont lie, they tell me exactly, from the start, what to expect and to stay FAR away from them, to not even come within a mile, I will drown! That is fine, they dont try to fool me. They say, out and clear: We love to raid and to PvP. Fine. EQ say they promote grouping and are solo friendly, 2 very NASTY nasty lies!
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Hmm, well I have to disagree with pretty much everything you said that time but oh well.
I do respect that that is your opinion of it and hope you find a mmorpg that you enjoy and dont feel betrayed by.
*take a bad attitude*
You have the right to disagree that segregation and the Red Scare never happen in the USA as well if you want!
*grin*
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well segregation was a factual thing, your opinion of whether EQ is a group oriented game is just that, an opinion, which of course not everyone will always have the same one.
Like I said though, I can respect your opinion and desire to find a game that better fits what you enjoy. Everyone has different experiences even when playing the same game and can come to think of it completely different from another.
LOL
30h+ of RAIDING each week for MONTHS in order to achieve GROUP uberness and you dare tell me that this is an OPINION? It is a FACT that they are not solo friendly or group oriented, and they lure peoples in by telling them they are!
Where does a FACT become an opinion? The nazis will tell you that a genocide is not a mere few millions and it is an opinion to think so. They will most likely come with a % and say they are well under it for any race...
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
If it took you 30+ hours of raiding per week to get people to let you in a group I think the problem is something other then the game.
The "FACT", as you say, is that you NEVER have to group in EQ if you don't want to and can level all the way to the cap and have a blast doing it. I know this is a "FACT" because I did it with 2 different non raid characters. That doesnt even include all the characters I played and enjoyed that didnt even get 45+ where they would have an option to raid.
I think the thing your looking for is the ability to be the best your character possibly can be via equipment. If you want your character to have the best equipment in game and have the most hp/atk/ac or whatever then yes you will have to raid.
The thing to keep in mind is that thats not the only or everyones goal when playing a mmorpg. A character who never raids can still do their job in a group quite well if they know what they are doing.
On top of all that the end game is only a part of EQ, there are 45 levels before most people even start to raid which are purely about grouping.
Yes raiding is a big part of EQ. It still however is not required to have fun or to be able to play in groups. Remember that the majority, probably 85% or more of the games content, is designed for single groups.
I don't see why you feel the need to bring nazis and segregation into this topic. Besides being completely off topic there is plenty of negativity in the forums without randomly throwing out bad things from history that have little merit or moral context to our discussion.
I want the TOP as far as group are concerned, yes. I dont care to have only 1 HP in a raiding setting, but in a group, I deserve to be at least equal(and equal is not even satisfying, but I could live with it, yet, there is no way someone that earn stuff outside of groups deserve group uberness) to someone that didnt earn their stuff in groups. Just to find a group in the high end, best gear help a LOT, there is no way a stranger that is all about *uberness* of the game(a little like me, but without the kind side of grouping anyone like I usually do) will prefer a non-raider to a raider in a simple little group. The 64 levels prior level 65 are not even 10% of my play time, they are irrelevants. When I was raid geared(pre-SoL), I always find group in less then 10 minutes not to mention the 3 offers or more every hour despite been ANONYMOUS, folks fight to have me in their group...when I was not raid geared (PoP+) it usually work within 10 minutes, but here and there it didnt...There is no way Raiders deserve to be at the top of the grouping stystem, no way at all. To be group focused or solo friendly, you need to be from the start to the end, not only a part of it!
Fact that you CAN dont make it friendly that way! The FACT is a raider will level his twinks a lot faster then a non-raiders. The fact is with raid gear, you are BETTER in the grouping and soloing system, which is innaceptable in a game that claim to be solo friendly and group focused. INNACCEPTABLE for the friendly flag! Friendly mean you not only CAN, but it is the right way to do it efficiently!
I dont answer the rest of your post as I *feel* you are insulting me rather then discussing, and entering this is a no point in itself.
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I am not sure what part of my post you took as an insult but none of it was intended that way. Your view of this doesnt upset me or make me angry with you really Ano so please dont think I am trying to attack you in any way. I just have a different view and am trying to express it.
Even if I did dislike you or something I would probably not try to insult you or flame you on a forum as that accomplishes very little imo.
From your post, the key thing I think we disagree on is this. You believe that a game that is group "friendly" should not allow players who raid to have better equipment then those who do not.
From my point of view "friendly" means that they support grouping which they do, not that they prefer it or reward it as well or better then any other style of play. If they were honestly trying to say that grouping was the way to get the best gear and the prefered way to play then I am sure thats exactly what they would have said.
I really dont see the difficulty in getting a group if your not a raider as being anything that common. I managed to get groups with my non raid characters all the time. The class I played, my and how well I play it always was the key element in what groups I got return invites to. That and how well we got along as people of course.
I have seen it from both sides of the coin since I have done the extreme raiding with some characters and none with others and really havent noticed an amazing difference in my enjoyment of the game. In fact the non raid characters were more fun in general. Sure I didnt feel as "uber" or whatever with my non raid characters as the others, but I still enjoyed them a great deal and the majority of the games content was available to them.
Well...
I dont mind if they give raiders the best raiding tools, they deserve those. But, the grouping tools, they belong to groupers in a group focused game.
Oh, grouping is POSSIBLE, usually under 10 minutes for me anyway(sometimes more), yet, it would be BETTER if I would have RAIDING tools in the grouping world, this is a nonsense in itself if you take the grouping game seriously. Friendly would mean the best edges to earn for that aspect of the game is inside it, not outside it.
See, the more I read from you, the more you sound *casual*, which is not bad at all, this is very good to remain casual in a game and take it for what it is, a simple game.
Yet, I am everything but casual! A hardcore player that love soloing or grouping will find no fun in EQ, unless they can cope with the raiding aspect!
A game that is friendly to grouping or soloing is not only appealing to casual groupers and soloers, it appeal to hardcores groupers! And MANY casuals players will say EQ is not solo/group friendly past level 50(now I cant say anything more there, I honestly dont understand anything, just repeat what they say).
If the game was group focused or solo friendly, MOST of the folks spending a lot of time grouped and soloing(in the ubah solo and grouping zones) would not be a well advanced raider(elemental flagged was a good sign back then), since a hardcore grouper/soloer would usually have no time to also advance in the raiding world.
Saying EQ is solo friendly, is like saying Iraq is humanity friendly. Yes, someone can live in Iraq, can succeed, in fact someone can helps more fellows humans beeing in Iraq then anywhere else on the planet most likely. Yet, Iraq is by no mean humanity friendly, and the average age where folks died in Iraq will tell you that. Yes, some folks can live to 100 years olds in Iraq, it is possible, but they better be Saudi strangers in well protected strongholds, not Iraqis folks, yet, some pure Iraqis can live up to 100 as well.
The fact a game allow solo is not enought to be solo friendly. It need to support it, to give peoples a reason to solo instead of doing anything else, since every activity worth doing have it own special reward. And the easiest way is to handle solo uberness to soloer, and group uberness to groupers, because it is a game and folks do what they like, not what you ask them to do. And to ensure that folks make fun, you must link the reward with the activity.
EQ is not even Raid friendly, but that would prolly be to long to explain. Yet, a raider should not have to earn AAs and XP in groups, the only reason someone should group, should be because they like it and they want to become better groupers, not better raiders or soloers! Yet, asking a raider to group is less detrimental to the raider then asking a grouper to raid if we assume the subject dislike the other activity, because they only ask a raider to do the most basic grouping, very easy to do and tada, all the AAs and levels and all, so a pain, but easy. A grouper is asked to actually dominate the raiding world in order to dominate the grouping world, it is a nonsense in itself, if at least the groupers would earn all the best from the raiding world as easily a raider earn the best from the grouping world, it would be less of a pain, yet, it would still be a pain.
We can talk more and more.
But basically, EQ may be friendly to a casual grouper/soloer, but certainly not to a hardcore grouper/soloer. A casual raider will certainly not find EQ raid friendly either, unless they are also loving the grouping or the soloing aspect.
For me to play EQ more, I need to be able to advance my toon significantly, and been in the shadows of raiders in the very grouping world is a big NO THANKS.
No hardcore groupers, that will gloat at having all their AAs maxed less then 3 months after PoP release(like me in march 2003) will be finding that EQ is group friendly or focused. I would have gloat about soloing the Diaku Supplier back then, most of the most hardcores raiders still cant solo it even now, 13 or 14 months laters...even the best skilled soloer in the world would not have been able to do this without some raiding if only to access the zone, yet, the best soloer of the world is certainly more solo worthy then me, yet, I abuse him with the raid flag tagging I got! This is plainly wrong and unfair from a soloing point of view!
Now, if you would want to keep arguing, I can tell you, that all my friends but a few are a lot more casual then me and all the casuals HATE EQ and they would say, all of them, that EQ is not solo or group friendly from a casual point of view, yet, I am not going to argue on the casual aspect myself, I aint no casual and I aint understanding well the casual side, yet, I know many casuals will say EQ is NOT solo or group friendly, and you will not find 1 hardcore player(60h+ a week on the same toon for months) that dislike raiding and will say EQ is solo or group friendly.
I think you award to much importance to the CAN aspect, it would be like saying the worst pure PvP game is friendly environnement for EVERY player. Yes, a carebear can succeed in the worst PvP surrounding, that dont make it friendly for a carebear! Not to mention, that no pure solo can reach the TOP, they cant do much beside the leveling basic! Soloing is so much more then just leveling a toon! Great deeds need to be done, accomplishments! Almost nothing can be done beside the basic leveling in EQ! A pure soloer that dont do any group or raiding will never even have a chance at the best solo targets, and even if he can by luck of a flag or whatever, they are still ghetto, not the top of anything. Should have a soloing top! Everyone need a top, and the only top EQ offer is raiding, which make all the rest of the game unfriendly!
The best PROOF that EQ is not solo/group friendly is that I would still be playing it if a server would plainly dont have any raiding zone! Yes, I would be playing on that server, althought I would rather ADD then remove, ADDING is better, ADDING group and solo high end is a MUST happen thing if you want the solo/group system to really appeal to folks, they need a high end as well! And this high end need to be the ONLY way to group/solo uberness. Splitting me from my raiders friends is better then losing me I guess, but not splitting me by offering me the stuff I care on the same server would be thousands times better!
Real raiders dont raid for group uberness, they raid for raid uberness! Of course you have many lootwhores that dont like raiding but just do anything that bring the reward, do you really need them to keep the raiding healthy? Need them so much to make it at the expense of all the others aspects of the game? If a real raider is actually a real grouper as well, do you really want him to raid at all cost or wont it be better if he can choose whatever he want and care more for at that precise moment, he would raid for raid uberness, group for group uberness, pee for pee uberness!
No amount of talking will make me change mind, EQ is NOT solo friendly, and each time they say so, each time I am openly scowling! The day the best soloer earn his solo edges soloing, I will nod, until this day, CAN is not enought for a solo friendly tag! Group focused is even farther! If EQ was solo friendly, considering I actually like the system, the leveling, the way the game is just made, and the fact that I love solo, I would be playing it. But, the fact they reward raiders with been the best soloers, the best groupers, the best tradeskillers and the best PvPers just leave me to 2 options: Raid or quit! I LOOOOVE grouping and soloing, I love treadmills...I have many 65ish toons in EQ...but I wont play it because I will never be anything but a trivial player because I dont raid, dont tell me it is solo friendly or group focused, I am BOTH(which is rare, most groupers dont stand soloing, yet, you seem to be both and a raider in the same time) and I LIKE the system they use, yet, I wont play it because it is NOT solo friendly or group oriented, if it would be, I would be playing it! I dont care to be underaider0.0002, I NEED to know that those ahead of me EARN it in a rightfull way, not raiding, tradeskilling or playing Pac Man! I NEED hope to think that 1 day I will access it maybe...and if I wont raid, I might as well just stop playing right away, unless they correct it to make it solo/group friendly so I will be motivated in earning my soloing/grouping stuff more and more and more!
If you dont understand where you make me feel *insulted*, I rather leave it to you to do a self examination should you really care, the more I will talk, the less you will think over it and the more you will just argue...And no, I dont take it as a personnal attack, I know many folks argue that way sometimes...
- "Coercing? No no, I assure you, they are willing to bring my bags and pay public transportation just to help me, it is true!''
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Well, here is my opinion after 5 years in EQ.
You can indeed group all the way to 65, and never raid. But this will cause you some disadvantages in the high end game for finding groups in the hardest group places (POP or GoD). Because ppl get used to cleric with FT15 and main tank with time HP/AC and such. They don't rate you well when you cause downtimes and failures because you don't have the raiding gear those they usually group with have.
I would'nt care not having time or Elemental gear and fight hard in PoP or GoD with some failures or downtimes. The problem is that ppl want to be efficient and they remember having more success and xp gain with yesterday's cleric who had time gear. Then you have to wait longer next time you're LFG in PoV or some hard places. They begin to tag you as someone who sucks. And don't take me wrong here, I don't talk about skill, because I think bad gear force you to develop good skills, but I talk about the fact that EQ has become 80 percent gear oriented for performing some tasks and without it you simply suck compared to those who sport good gear from heavy raiding. The highest content don't focus mainly on skills but on gear. They did'nt create more intelligent monsters, they made them hit for huge damage, and you just need HP/AC and huge mana pool and regen to cope with this non stop.
So, yes, you can be happy just grouping, but forget about most of the new high end content, because you'll be out of it because of your gear. You can close your eyes and go for it anyway, but you'll ever be less efficient and less sought after than all those who have the gear to reduce downtime and failures because hardcores hate to loose time, they are'nt in EQ for roleplay they're there for performance and want to burn through the content as fast as it's possible.
An example of this is the hard setting for level 65 LDON adventures... forget this without uber gear, you'll annoy your group if you try this without raiding gear. And that's sad for groupers only. I've tried this as cleric with a group geared MA, and it was a complete failure, and that was sad because the MA was a nice person with great skills, he just did'nt had the hp/ac to do the job... Did the same adventure with a raider MA and it was cake. That's what is'nt normal and what is annoying people like Anofalye.
Nagarian