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Some of my Vanguard's screenshots
Adelbert
Member Posts: 42
I've seen many posts from people asking for screenshots, so in case anyone is interested, here you have some of the screens I've taken from my comp 
P4 3ghz, 2 GB Ram and a 7800 GS AGP:
P4 3ghz, 2 GB Ram and a 7800 GS AGP:
Comments
eqnext.wikia.com
In some cases Vanguard does have very traditional fantasy style towns, but that's not a lack of inspiration - It's a design choice. From the start they were going for traditional high fantasy. But there is still plenty of their own flare in there.
The more realistic environments are also another design choice.
I've got hundreds of screenshots and can't decide which ones to post. Every town is so unique, and there are so many great sights, that it's overwhelming.
Yes so true, the graphics is awesome and the cities so cool.... I have just fallen in love with the island Kojan... Every town is just aaaaaah there is no words.
Galandriel - Cleric on Gelenia server
Galadedel - Druid on same server
I notice a lot of people have "atmospheric distortion" turned up. Am I the only one that thinks it makes the game look worse?
I guess they're going for a sort of distance haze effect, but it looks more like nearsightedness to me. Maybe realistic and all, but not something I'm fond of my games emulating...
Can you go more than a day without slamming down everyone who didn't like Vanguard? I've got a great system and Vanguard never looked as good as it did in those screen shots. EQ 2 still looks much better for me by far. But so what? How does this have any bearing on the game itself other than someone having a brand new machine for those pictures?
Quit with the Vanboy stuff man, it's getting real old.
Can you go more than a day without slamming down everyone who didn't like Vanguard? I've got a great system and Vanguard never looked as good as it did in those screen shots. EQ 2 still looks much better for me by far. But so what? How does this have any bearing on the game itself other than someone having a brand new machine for those pictures?
I don't want to use this thread to do any more complaining - just want to say that as far as I can tell, it is that "good" on my system, despite my negative opinions on its style, or lack thereof. Here's an example, my most recent shot, and one of my first shots, if you want to dispute that... Just don't point out the JPG compression, I don't save them as BMPs.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Nearly every screenshot I have seen posted as an example of Vanguard's graphics have largely been static landscape/scenery screens.
I would be interested in seeing some solo or group combat shots with an FPS meter in the frame to see how much performance has improved since beta.
Aeronis, you have mentioned here that you have many screenshots. Perhaps you could post some that were less static (posed) and more impromptu. Those screenshots more accurately reveal the engine's rendering performance, since during the majority of gameplay the player will be moving or in combat (unless they have chosen to focus entirely on crafting or diplomacy).
If possible, combat action screens with FPS display and system statistics would be nice. It would definitely give the potential customer a better idea of what they can expect than static screens which nearly any system could take at extremely high resolution with no issues.
As far as the comments about "uninspired graphics"; I don't think those who mention that as an issue are suffering from poor computer performance, necessarily. I think their comments are directed more at the relative lack of detail in design.
In beta, one of the things that struck me as rather odd was the comparative lack of detail with interiors. I can fully understand the simplicity of an outpost with tents or even just simple outdoors vendors. But when you enter a large city/fortress area, the lack of interior detail tends to leave them looking rather stark. No desks, chairs, tables, display cases, weapons racks... there are literally hundreds of small details that could be added to improve these interiors.
Without them, it makes these sections feel rather sterile. I think that, when combined with large areas of geography without any stand-out landmarks or points of interest, that is what they are referring to when they say the graphics are uninspired. In addition, many systems require some tweaking of contrast, brightness, gamma, etc., due to graphic card idiosyncrasies to make the graphics less washed-out in appearance.
I understand the desire to make realistic graphics; but that doesn't necessarily translate to washed-out, drab colors. Colors in real life are not anywhere near as bland as they can appear in VSOH (at least, without tweaking).
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Aeronis, you have mentioned here that you have many screenshots. Perhaps you could post some that were less static (posed) and more impromptu. Those screenshots more accurately reveal the engine's rendering performance, since during the majority of gameplay the player will be moving or in combat (unless they have chosen to focus entirely on crafting or diplomacy).
All the screenshots you see represent how the game actually looks if you've got a mid range computer or better. I stay on balanced settings during combat.
As far as the comments about "uninspired graphics"; I don't think those who mention that as an issue are suffering from poor computer performance, necessarily. I think their comments are directed more at the relative lack of detail in design.
No one who has actually done a good amount of exploring with the graphics turned up can accuse the game of lacking inspiratiobn or detail. That's why they are disregarded.
In beta, one of the things that struck me as rather odd was the comparative lack of detail with interiors.
Depends on where you go. Many places have elaborate interiors.
I understand the desire to make realistic graphics; but that doesn't necessarily translate to washed-out, drab colors. Colors in real life are not anywhere near as bland as they can appear in VSOH (at least, without tweaking).
Colors aren't bland in VG - It depends on the time of day and weather. I've got some examples of extremely vibrant colors.
Without them, it makes these sections feel rather sterile. I think that, when combined with large areas of geography without any stand-out landmarks or points of interest, that is what they are referring to when they say the graphics are uninspired.
There's plenty in terms of points of interest and standout features as one explores.
So your basic answer is no, you either don't have any or you won't post them? You could have just said that.
It is easy enough to take a high resolution screenshot while standing completely still; my point is, I would like to see some combat shots on normal settings with FPS displayed and system information provided to see if there has been any relative performance improvement since beta.
If you aren't interested in providing them, fine.
I think you are misunderstanding my initial statement; I am not referring to texture detail, reflection/refraction, shadows or terrain modeling. I was referring to a lack of items that increase appreciation of the environment. Rolling hills, mountains, etc., are undoubtedly beautiful, but nothing that we cannot see not only in other games but in the real world. I'd think the majority of us play games to escape the real world and see things that we could not otherwise see. Those are the kinds of details that seem to be missing or are few and far between.
I'm not slamming the game; I'm just saying, it would add immensely to the personalization of the game if they had more points of interest across the landscape, especially those that reinforced the lore.
That is rather my point, though. If I go into a reinforced stone building and the only things in it are essentially NPCs, someone forgot something. Each and every interior should have the details you would expect to find that are common to people actually living and working there.
I did see some vibrant colors in VSOH once I had played a bit with the brightness/contrast and gamma settings. Before that, the colors were rather washed out. So I can see how people would describe the game as washed-out if they took it at face value.
Are these being mapped, perhaps on a fan site? It would be interesting to see the points of interest and outstanding features on a map of the entire game world. I will check some of the fan sites and see if there is a good map out there.
I came across many PoIs and features while in beta, but normally they were separated by large sections of relatively empty terrain.
Hopefully, as players begin building homes and the game overall expands, more PoIs will be added, particularly those that reinforce the game lore.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Kojan and woodelf for the win
Although.. i started to explore the doable parts of Thestra and the landscape tends to beat Kojan.
On hint for the OP. Try set shadow to 21%. This doesnt cost much or anything of fps but gives you a silhouette shaped shadow and increases the all-over look a lot. I love it to rest in the shadow of a tree
For the perofmance in combat and teams. Solo and small team combat works in the same quality and fps then solo in the above showed screenshots. Full team combat seems screwed. But i can not tell if its my PC or a game issue. I heared nobody complain ingame about team combat. I have very slow fps as soon as i join a team with five others. Even when i am still solo 1 km away from my team. As if a team shares a fixed amount of bandwidth.. very annoying, because combat can be a blast if smooth.
Points of intersst.. I am sorry, but i have to say it. Some things only can happen in your phantasy. Hardcoded POIs ? What is that ? Its not about fleeing the rearlworld, its about living your phantasy. Many years back people dreamed of such a world vanguard offers and now finally its there. A place where your alter ego is really able to live. Sure, i am an oldfashioned roleplayer. I do advance in combat (not as fast as others though) but its much more about having a stage to play on. And for me there are hundreds or thousants of such points ingame. No need to map them and i wished Sigil would have not implemented the map at all. Well, i am aware that the opinion of an oldfashioned roleplayer probably cant impress you. People look at me like i was an alien when i kindly ask for allowance to skin this dead boar. You know, in that moment the boar is my point of interest. Around this boar a long story could ewolve, a friendship could come out of. I am still waiting for the day someone wants 2 copper for it or askes if its possible to trade it for one of my so helpful enhancements (buffs).
For completeness of the towns and camps i have to admit that they are laking a bit. But noone creates such games anymore. Even oldstar EQ2 starts to lack from Desert of flames onward. With Echo of Faydwer they tried to get that back, but Kelethin is less in detail then any camp in vaguard.
Awesome
Heres some more landscape that accurately show the draw distance. at least i think so.
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/Jackman1118/ScreenShot_00004.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/Jackman1118/ScreenShot_00003.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/Jackman1118/ScreenShot_00002.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y212/Jackman1118/ScreenShot_00001.jpg
and yeah its not pretty, but its the flipping desert. what do you expect
lol.
oh and that city is the qalian main city, Khal.
First of all, are your guys' screenshots being output in jpg format? Mine all seem to get put out in bmp format and then i have to convert them, which lowers the quality slightly. Is there some way to change the output format?
Regarding Somnulus:
I don't happen to have any combat shots either cause usually when I am in combat I am a little busy to be thinking of fps and screenshots, heh. However, I do have a consolation screenshot for you.
http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/6362/screenshot57fi2.jpg
There are many many points of interest that reinforce the lore. There's a lake in Thestra you go buy and half of it is glowing cause there's a giant meteor in the water. Be careful when traveling through Tharridon's Scar because Thardion the Mighty, a big friggan giant, obviously lives there. I remember at one point seeing black smoke in the far distance when traveling through an area. Well I decided to investigate and as I got closer and closer, the smoke started getting bigger and darker obviously. When I finally reached the source of the smoke, it was some sort of bandit hideout or work camp or something. They had these huge braziers just pouring out smoke. They were well defended though because they'd dug their camp out of the middle of a giant rock outcropping. It was very cool.
I wouldn't say the colours are washed out either. They're a little less vibrant than say, WoW is, but honestly I think the way they're done is to add a sense of realistic colour reaction to the environment and light and such.
Interiors I'd say are pretty good as well. The crafting building I hang out in (one of 5 in the crafting circle in Leth Nurae) is nice.
http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/6623/screenshot68oy6.jpg
The things your'e talking about are on a very fine line though. There has to be a balance between adding stuff to buildings/terrain etc, and avoiding clutter. Now take the shop I work at in the screenshot, there's just a few crafting benches and not much else. Would it be nice to have some scrap buckets or a sawhorse or something like that? Sure. How much would it really add to the game? Honestly not that much I think, I think it would possibly be construed as clutter. It just doesn't really fit well within the High Elf sorta snobbish pretty stuff. Even when you're out adventuring, sure you could have something interesting every 5 meters, but the world would very quickly become cluttered and honestly, that's not very realistic. They're trying to simulate a real world in the game, and in the real world there are signifigant distances between things. If you look at say, Robin Hood, he's got a whole huge forest between him and everyone else. If you look at the LOTR movies, there's vast distances between them and anything else most of the time. There has to be space between the interesting stuff so we don't feel like all the interesting stuff is mundane. The distance keeps it special compared to what's around it.
Also here's a couple more screenshots I have:
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/447/screenshot69mj6.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5835/screenshot64dj5.jpg
http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/1340/screenshot11ar3.jpg
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/3343/screenshot32rh5.jpg
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Vgclient.ini has a setting for it. Mine reads:
ScreenshotFormat=JPG
But, if you convert them manually, you can control the compression quality. If you let the game do it, you can't.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Can you go more than a day without slamming down everyone who didn't like Vanguard? I've got a great system and Vanguard never looked as good as it did in those screen shots. EQ 2 still looks much better for me by far. But so what? How does this have any bearing on the game itself other than someone having a brand new machine for those pictures?
Quit with the Vanboy stuff man, it's getting real old.
call me an illiterate fool, but I read Aeronis statement about a half of dozen times. It seems to me that his statement is actually praising Vanguard and slamming those who say Vanguard has crappy graphics. Unless my grammar teachers taught me wrong after all these years, that's what Im getting from it.
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Thank you for the elaboration on your relative performance, mague. The team issue sounds less like a bandwidth issue than a database issue. Obviously, when players join in a team, there is some linking occurring between character data that probably also affects the world state in relation to the team members. If the database is a wee bit slow, that could be why you are seeing a performance slowdown even when you are separated from the group by a good distance.
I don't know... I have no idea what you are referring to here. I never said anything about "hardcoded POIs". What I said specifically was that VSOH suffers from a lack of points of interest. If you want to refer to them as "hard-coded", you certainly have a right to your opinion.
Since your character hasn't existed forever in the gameworld and the gameworld didn't simply come into existence the moment you set foot on it, it stands to reason that others came before you. Battles were fought, disasters occurred, heroes lived, fought and died, civilizations came and went in the history of the game world. Those things all leave behind traces that are related to them and create the lore of the world.
When you ride into a valley and there is a small stone monument at its northern end, commemorating the "Battle of Drusik Valley", THAT is a point of interest. If there is a grave to a great hero (or group of heroes) who were pivotal in the world's history that you discover in your travels, THAT is a point of interest.
When you come across the ruins of a once-proud civilization that has been lost forever, THAT is a point of interest.
Those things all add to the lore and the life of the game world. Stories can be created that enhance them, they can be referred to when one player speaks to another player ("I ran across a group of goblins just on the north side of Drusik Valley. I cannot believe they have moved this far west! It was quite a battle, but I managed to overcome them.")
They breathe life into the game and give the players a robust starting point as well as background for their own creativity.
I am a hard-core roleplayer. Forty years old and I still play and GM PnP roleplaying games and enjoy the drama immensely. I even roleplay in City of Heroes, a game which probably lends itself the least to roleplay of all MMORPGs.
My point is that you have to start with something besides largely empty landscape. GMs don't start their players out in empty rooms and provide no description. MMORPGs, especially the type that VSOH aspires to be, need to provide physical representation of lore and game world detail in the game.
As I said, I saw very few. For example, when running across the landscape in Asheron's Call, there were ruins, buildings, small settlements, etc., scattered all over the landscape. It was possible to run across the huge landscape and find things out in the middle of nowhere that few other players had seen before. It made the world come alive and a huge majority of these points of interest reinforced the lore of the game world, either through linked quests or through lore related by NPCs.
That was one of the first things I noticed that VSOH lacked. A huge landscape, yes; PoIs spread across it that made me feel as though I were actually exploring, no.
As an "old-fashioned" roleplayer, you should understand more than anyone else the need to map, most particularly in actual role-play. Certainly, you could do an intelligence or wisdom roll of some kind to try to remember all of the turns in a dungeon, but that's hardly the most effective method. You announce that you are mapping as you go and you do it. That way, you know where you have been and where you are going.
I'm not endorsing in-game maps and I heartily agree with you that they shouldn't exist, particularly in a fantasy MMORPG. I am talking about player made maps from players who have explored the world.
That is reality. Europe, Asia, North America... the great (and not so great) explorers of the world created maps so that they knew where they had been, how to get back to where they had been and could communicate discoveries to others effectively.
A point of interest isn't a temporal thing. It has some permanence. For example, if you created an intricate story about the battle you had with the boar at that point on the landscape and decided to refer to it from then on as "Boar's End Rock" then as long as you continued to maintain that as your personal lore and the site could be revisited, it is a point of interest. You can direct others to it, relate your tale and they can map it as well.
The boar itself ceases to be a point of interest the moment it disappears. No one else can visit the boar.
Further, if you didn't map the location, then it cannot be recognized by anyone as a point of interest, unless you remember exactly where the event occurred for the duration of your character's existence and refer to it as a point of interest consistently.
If a friendship does emerge from the slaying of the boar, if you and your friend(s) pass by that area in the future and can say "that's where we met, battling that boar so many years ago" then again, the location is a point of interest. Going even further, if you named the location, that would more solidly place it as a point of interest. From that point on to you and your friends, that area isn't just a piece of landscape; it is the "Companion's Trail" or "The Battle of Boar Rock" or however you care to describe it. It has firmly become a point of interest; others can be directed to it and the tale you create to give it life can be told to others and related directly to that point of interest.
That is what I am referring to.
See, now here is where our expectations as players should go up just a bit. VSOH aspires to be a next-generation "old school" MMORPG. It is definitely not outside of their capabilities. They just need to take the initiative to do it.
Part of that lack of detail can certainly be attributed to the circumstances of their rushed release, but it isn't something they cannot add as the game matures. It's just something that could radically enhance the game world and make it much more attractive overall.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
Some very nice screens, Blurr! A bit more action occurring in some of them than others I have seen. It appears as though they still haven't enabled anti-aliasing though; the jaggies are pretty clear on hard edges, especially at a little bit of range.
I agree, there is a fine point between atmosphere and clutter. I am referring more to areas that have a clear absence of items that, if they were added, would give the environment more "life".
I also agree that the concept of clutter extends to landscape and that you cannot have a PoI every few meters. There should be a happy medium, though, that not only encourages exploration but rewards it.
I understand the point you are trying to make with your examples, although even they have significant PoIs. Sherwood Forest itself is a PoI, as the home to the Merry Men and a purported haunted wood. Also, it houses several ruins and gravesites.
In LOTR, many PoIs are separated by at least a half-day to a day's travel, but there are many that are clustered together. Going back to the text of the Fellowship and away from the movies, the hobbits leave the Shire and can recount clearly the closest PoIs: Brandywine Bridge, Tookland, Green Hill Country, Bywater, Woodhall (outside of which the hobbits and their new High Elven friends camped) and Stock (home of the Golden Perch), Buckleberry Ferry, Water-Valley, Woody End (where Frodo and the hobbits met their first High Elf, Gildor of the House of Finrod), Eastfarthing and Farmer Stout's lands.... all before they had even left the Shire.
PoIs don't necessarily have to be deep, mysterious, dark, scary or even particularly interesting. They simply have to exist, they should be named, they should have relationships to the game world and reinforce the lore of either the locale they are in or the game world in general.
Abbatoir / Abbatoir Cinq
Adnihilo
Beorn Judge's Edge
Somnulus
Perfect Black
----------------------
Asheron's Call / Asheron's Call 2
Everquest / Everquest 2
Anarchy Online
Shadowbane
Dark Age of Camelot
Star Wars Galaxies
Matrix Online
World of Warcraft
Guild Wars
City of Heroes
EDIT: Doh, I started writing this before you replied to my post, haha, I'll leave it mostly as it is just incase anyone else wants to read too.
There's tons of various POIs all over the world of telon.
There's a cliff-face that's been carved into the likenesses of fallen wariors in their memory (probably before the cataclysm).
There's an area called Tharridon's Scar because Tharridon the MIghty, a big mean looking giant, has decided that the area now belongs to him (or perhaps people call it that so you steer clear of him).
There's a remote spot in Qalia with a half-buried excavation site that was abandoned for some unknown reason. The only evidence is a strange monument . The monument gives a riddle of history and an ancient king who became paranoid. If you speak the right answer, you may find reward, in addition to the reward of knowing about this ancient addled king.
There's stuff like that absolutely all over the game world, some of it you can interact with, some of it is just mysterious. The trick is though that a good portion of all these points of interest and lore and such are able to be interacted with through storylines. Perhaps there is the ancient keep that was taken over by baddies eons ago, and recently someone has found a way to take back the keep.
The thing is there's all this lore and information and interesting stuff, but you gotta go looking for it. Some people don't care about lore, or stuff like that, and thus they don't want to be forcefed all this information.
In addition, while the option to make your own POIs might be nice, you can see how most people probably wouldn't bother with it that much, or worse abuse it. It would be cool, but not very practical beyond a very small part of the game's population.
Finally, you talk about GMs giving their players all this information and points of interest and such all the time. I agree that's one of the things that makes pnp RPGs great. However, the main difference is that with a pnp rpg, the GM will just skip over the parts where you travel through the forest unless you find something. In an MMO, you can't really skip over the traversal of all these areas without making the game feel really tiny. If you keep the game world big but have POIs every 10 meters, then the world will feel cluttered. The trick is to try and find a balance between open terrain and POIs. I think Vanguard has done a great job of that, because while there are many points of interest, most of them are slightly out of the way, so if you're just autorunning from one point to another, you won't see them. However if you're an explorer and taking the time to look around, you will find things that most people never see, and it will be that much more unique to your experience.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Just wanted to clarify, Somnulus is talking about the books and the movie for Lord of the Rings. He's not talking about the upcoming MMO which takes about a minute or less to walk between points of interest.
carry on..
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
My youtube MMO gaming channel
Just wanted to clarify, Somnulus is talking about the books and the movie for Lord of the Rings. He's not talking about the upcoming MMO which takes about a minute or less to walk between points of interest.
carry on..
Do you know howmuch 1 minute of your life is worth ?who me ?