pvp, whats it like?

dargonight · February 2007

I am a current world of warcraft subscriber who is a little downtrodent at the moment. I like world of warcraft because of the cool pve and because i know the lore of it. The pvp in world of warcraft leaves me with something to be desired. I was hoping either eve or city of heroes could fill that void. I hear a lot about how eve has huge space fights like the galactic battle im reading about on the forums. My question is how does the pvp system work in eve and what is the pvp community like? Also, can a new player get in on the pvp fun and be usefull?

Thanks,

Dargonight

bawldy · February 2007

Originally posted by dargonight

I am a current world of warcraft subscriber who is a little downtrodent at the moment. I like world of warcraft because of the cool pve and because i know the lore of it. The pvp in world of warcraft leaves me with something to be desired. I was hoping either eve or city of heroes could fill that void. I hear a lot about how eve has huge space fights like the galactic battle im reading about on the forums. My question is how does the pvp system work in eve and what is the pvp community like? Also, can a new player get in on the pvp fun and be usefull?

                                                              Thanks,
                                                                               Dargonight

Huge fights = lag fest...not fun at all

Small fights can be fun

Most fights are ganks, someone had no chance at all

PVP last a few seconds and you lose weeks if not months of work, or you win in a few seconds.

Many think anything in the game is just pvp...somehow...it is alllll pvp...but the truth is, the true pvp can be fun (true pvp = the combat, not who sold what first

...)

Try it with a trial account, read up on current trust issues related to ccp cheating in the game, and make an informed decision on if you want to subscribe.(use any other forum then ccp's to read up on the issues involved in the CCP scandal, they censor their own forums heavily)

iCeh · February 2007

Yup, just try out the free trial you've got nothing to lose.

I don't think you'll experience PvP at its best in the 14 days, but I've always found EVE to be one of those 'you either like it, or you don't' sort of games.

darkfish0 · February 2007

The problem in EVE is that there are so many different types of PvP, not meaning all this economic PvP either

Pirating, is totally different from Solo PvP(in 0.0 or such), which is different from small group, and again from large fleets. They use different skills, and knowledge.

In EVE PvP is often decided before the fight, certain ships>other ships, certain setups > others, its like playing rock paper scissors.

For example, an Assault Frigate will die to a cruiser or bigger ship fitted with nos, but will win against one without. An interceptor may win against a ship if it stays outside web range, but if it comes inside it dies. Small sips can beat bigger ones, big can beat small. It is soo tactical when you egt into EVE PvP that it is absolutely mind boggling:

"Should i fit 125mm rails so i can hit further away and harder, but then i might miss small ships, and i cant fit a plate. But if i fit 75mm i cant hit ranged ships or do much damage. However if i use high damage drones this can counterbalance the lack of damage in guns, meaning i can use the small guns and fit a better tank. But if i use a plate ill go slower, which means i might be easier to hit by other ships..." etc etc.

Your own skills must also be different, for piratingand solo PvP you need to know how to work the scanner effectively and to choose your targets. In fleet PvP you need to know how to listen on ventrilo, to align for warp. In groups you will often be helping each other tank, or combining your skills, you must be really good at working in teams.

There are so many different levels in PvP in EVE, its impossible to compare to any other game. Congrats if you bothered to read all that mumbling, and sorry for all the typos i expect ive made

Nafri · February 2007

It all depends on what kind of PvP:

We have pirate PvP which mostly involves the art of catching people, placing baits and so on.

And we have Alliance warfare PvP, which recently went down the drain. You can expect to play the game for 6--7h and basicly do nothing at all.

Just one short warning, if you expect from a game instant action the moment you log in, Eve will be the wrong game for you. You can search for hours for a fight and you find none.

But when a fight happens, and the servernode doesnt die cause 400 people want to shoot each other, the fights can be amazing, and arent even remotly comparable with WoW PvP.

But be warned, PvP in Eve is dirty, time consuming, and you better dont have a wife, otherwise she will hate you or Eve after a few month.

jwshaw88 · February 2007

I'm a relatively new player in EVE and I wanted to point a few things out about PvP that haven't been listed so far. Firstly, the skills needed to PvP on your own effectively are hard to come by and time consuming, meaning, just like WoW, solo or small group PvP is more of an end game thing. The more money you have to throw at modules and better ships, the better you utilize your skills. The newer you are, the more you lack in both money and skills. However, the second point I'd like to make is that though these skills and modules give you a definite advantage in a 1:1 scenario, even as a new player, you are still viable as an opponent based on your tactics and ship setup. I had a 1 week old character out in 0.0 doing missions for pirate faction. I was flying a decently equipped missile boat and came up on a rifter piloted by an older pilot. I held my own for quite a while, but eventually lost. So your best analogy here is a lvl 10 fighting a lvl 40.....without the huge splat at the end. That encounter made me really appreciate how fun it could be to fight an evenly matched PvP encounter. However, that same day, I got caught moving from system to system in a warp bubble and ganked in my lowly frigate and my 1 week old character by 2 battle cruisers and 2 frigates running tackle. This was in no way a fair fight, nor did I last more than a couple of seconds. Now this scenario is your typical gank squad style kill, but you have to understand that I was alone, lower level (skilled) and in high traffic pvp spots. I knew the risk when I went. I didn't like losing the ship in such a lopsided fight, but I didn't complain about it because it was my choice to leave high security space on that character and brave the pirates. This all being said, EVE is definetly a great game if you like the style of play for PVE (you have to make your money somehow). I certainly agree that it's not for everyone, but if you like to PVP and you can get into EVE's play style, you can make a fun game of the PVP I think. But like was stated before, you won't do it overnight, I'd say to make yourself an uber PVP'er it'd take you a year or so.in skill training. To be effective enough to enjoy PvP, you should be able to do that in a few months time.

LordSlater · February 2007

Originally posted by bawldy

Huge fights = lag fest...not fun at all

Small fights can be fun

Most fights are ganks, someone had no chance at all

PVP last a few seconds and you lose weeks if not months of work, or you win in a few seconds.

Many think anything in the game is just pvp...somehow...it is alllll pvp...but the truth is, the true pvp can be fun (true pvp = the combat, not who sold what first...)

Try it with a trial account, read up on current trust issues related to ccp cheating in the game, and make an informed decision on if you want to subscribe.(use any other forum then ccp's to read up on the issues involved in the CCP scandal, they censor their own forums heavily)

You seem to forget that PvP stands for PLAYER VERSES PLAYER. Which means anytime a player directly competed with another player its PvP.

baff · February 2007

It takes 4 hours to organise. Another 2 hours to travel to the fight.

When you get there, the enemy you arranged to fight takes one look at your ship and then runs away.

For another hour, everyone swears at him, desperate to provoke him to come back and fight.

Eventually everyone logs out, leaving you two hours of traveling to return to whatever it was you were doing originally.

Guild Wars is better.

LeJohn · February 2007

Ok.. first off forget PVP (player vrs player) as a concept.

EVE has lots of fighting but you have to keep a few things in mind.

1. When you loose a fight you loose everything. You loose your ship, you loose your equipemnt you loose all the time you spent grinding for it all and you can even loose your life which could meen that you could loose skills if you dont have enough isk (money) to pay for an approit clone.

To put this into an understandable format for you:

You are a lvl60 warrior and die. You not only loose all your equipment but also your backpack and bags and eveything in them and if unluckly you drop to a lvl50 thus loosing the ability to use any of the lvl60 stufy you have stashed in the bank.

Now because of this you will not find many that want an even fight, so unless the outgun or out blob (greatly outnumber) you they will run.

So if your intrested in Player Vrs Player action (an even fight) I suggest Battlefield or any number of MOGs. Now if you are looking for free ganks and hit and run action then come to EVE, god knows we don't have enough Pirats.

iCeh · February 2007

Originally posted by LeJohn

Ok.. first off forget PVP (player vrs player) as a concept.
EVE has lots of fighting but you have to keep a few things in mind.
1. When you loose a fight you loose everything. You loose your ship, you loose your equipemnt you loose all the time you spent grinding for it all and you can even loose your life which could meen that you could loose skills if you dont have enough isk (money) to pay for an approit clone.

To put this into an understandable format for you:
You are a lvl60 warrior and die. You not only loose all your equipment but also your backpack and bags and eveything in them and if unluckly you drop to a lvl50 thus loosing the ability to use any of the lvl60 stufy you have stashed in the bank.

Now because of this you will not find many that want an even fight, so unless the outgun or out blob (greatly outnumber) you they will run.
So if your intrested in Player Vrs Player action (an even fight) I suggest Battlefield or any number of MOGs. Now if you are looking for free ganks and hit and run action then come to EVE, god knows we don't have enough Pirats.

The difference between losing your ship, and losing your equipment in WoW is huge! Your assets are not kept in a ship, the ship you PvP in is something you can afford to lose, only a complete idiot would actively seek PvP while carrying everything he owned. In EVE your assets are kept in a safe and secure station, not in a backpack, and items are easily replaced compared to WoW, as in WoW you spend most of your time in LFG channel, then doing the same instance over and over again hoping to get what you want. Huge difference, and imo, you can't compare the two.

As for losing your Pod, and needing a new clone, they're very, very cheap. Again, only an idiot wouldn't have an updated clone while PvP'ing.

It's true that fights are not always even in EVE, but that's what's fun about it for me, you sometimes don't know what you're up against... if you don't know what you're doing.

socce · February 2007

dargonight well I play both wow and EvE Online

PvP in wow is more like old counterstrike idea, while EvE Online is whole different thing.

To be onest the pvp in wow is more then a joke if you have played Dark Age of Camelot. Who comes abit more closer to what EvE PvP is notice "just abit".

EvE Online PvP if we now talking about "fights" are huge and full of action

The feeling to sit in your ship and worrie about Do I going to survive this or not is a heart bumper

brokenneedle · February 2007

Eve-Online PvP:

f1, f2, f3, f4, ....

Haha, its not that bad. I found it pretty fun and exciting at times but the main problem with it is you need to be doing lots of not so fun stuff to make the isk to buy the ships and ammo to pvp. Mining is super-duper-unfun. Mission running is slightly less unfun than mining. I dunno - pvp was rad but the pve was the pits.

iCeh · February 2007

Originally posted by brokenneedle

Eve-Online PvP:
f1, f2, f3, f4, ....

Haha, its not that bad. I found it pretty fun and exciting at times but the main problem with it is you need to be doing lots of not so fun stuff to make the isk to buy the ships and ammo to pvp. Mining is super-duper-unfun. Mission running is slightly less unfun than mining. I dunno - pvp was rad but the pve was the pits.

I agree that PvE isn't fun in EVE, well there was a time it was for me, and that was the first time running a complex. Trying to figure out a good technique, and setup to do it was actually pretty fun, as it was challenging, but once we found perfected the complex it just got repetitive.

The rewards of making ISK are worth it for me though.

twiztid19 · February 2007

Sometimes fights can be hard to find when your in 0.0 doing ops but when you do get that awesome moment were a interdictor launches a warp disruption field on a enemy fleet of 15 guys and ur 20+ guys and you own them all. And recording all of it on fraps to watch a bunch of exspensive ships get owned and each persn making tons off of loot off the ships. Its that about eve which i love.

There are lots of different pvp types. But really for me its 0.0 fleets, not over 30 ships usually. Because in a good corporation of lots of people. You get to know each person. How they fight. How good they are, so you know exactly how capable your fleet is. And with things like this 30 guys can beat 40, If the ship types are setup right.

Eve is also very time consuming ive spent 2 years playing eve, Eve didnt really open up to me for like 8 months. But once you get into it. Know the game, know how to pvp well. Its a blast.

brokenneedle · February 2007

Originally posted by iCeh

Originally posted by brokenneedle

Eve-Online PvP:
f1, f2, f3, f4, ....

Haha, its not that bad. I found it pretty fun and exciting at times but the main problem with it is you need to be doing lots of not so fun stuff to make the isk to buy the ships and ammo to pvp. Mining is super-duper-unfun. Mission running is slightly less unfun than mining. I dunno - pvp was rad but the pve was the pits.

I agree that PvE isn't fun in EVE, well there was a time it was for me, and that was the first time running a complex. Trying to figure out a good technique, and setup to do it was actually pretty fun, as it was challenging, but once we found perfected the complex it just got repetitive.

The rewards of making ISK are worth it for me though.

Yeah, I gotta admit when I first got into Eve it was SO different than anything else I'd played, I actually enjoyed the PVE too. I mean I trained up mining barges before I ended up switching gears and getting into intys and finally bs's at the end. And missions and plexes were cool once I got into a big corp/alliance cause you really get a chance to mess with fittings practicing in those situations.

BUT, yeah, eventually just burned out on the whole thing. I had a few AWESOME pvp moments from small encounters to massive fleet battles (bob sicked mc on our alliance so I got a taste of that mess) but eventually the game turned into "station commander" for me (ie, I sat in the station having NO motivation to actually undock and go do anything.) Kudos to them for creating a DIFFERENT style of game. Nothing lasts forever though!

outthislife · February 2007

I really don't think anyone here has actually tried EVE and gotten into the endgame so I'm going to give what my experiences were:

PvP in EVE is group based and if you don't know how to work together, and not slack off then you won't go far. If you like watching everything closely, thinking about the next move or what to do next then you might like it. You have to pay attention to ammo types, capacitor charges, distance, velocity, type of ship, resistances, etc.

It takes more than 5 minutes to get into PvP because you have to suit best for whatever fight you're about to go up against, and if you have no clue then you just make an educated guess as to what you think you will survive in. You can be a solo guy as well, although you will not go very far.

Amorphia · February 2007

My advise is to find some1 you know who is playing in a society or join 1 in game you get 3 accounts so you can always get help to reconfigure the right PVP character for you,Then its possible to go escorted (Gang) into pvp after 1-2 weeks skilling ,if you are in a good gang and are lucky you might get out alive;) sounds like a lot to consider but its worth it for the buzz;)

LeJohn · February 2007

Originally posted by iCeh

Originally posted by LeJohn

Ok.. first off forget PVP (player vrs player) as a concept.
EVE has lots of fighting but you have to keep a few things in mind.
1. When you loose a fight you loose everything. You loose your ship, you loose your equipemnt you loose all the time you spent grinding for it all and you can even loose your life which could meen that you could loose skills if you dont have enough isk (money) to pay for an approit clone.

To put this into an understandable format for you:
You are a lvl60 warrior and die. You not only loose all your equipment but also your backpack and bags and eveything in them and if unluckly you drop to a lvl50 thus loosing the ability to use any of the lvl60 stufy you have stashed in the bank.

Now because of this you will not find many that want an even fight, so unless the outgun or out blob (greatly outnumber) you they will run.
So if your intrested in Player Vrs Player action (an even fight) I suggest Battlefield or any number of MOGs. Now if you are looking for free ganks and hit and run action then come to EVE, god knows we don't have enough Pirats.

The difference between losing your ship, and losing your equipment in WoW is huge! Your assets are not kept in a ship, the ship you PvP in is something you can afford to lose, only a complete idiot would actively seek PvP while carrying everything he owned. In EVE your assets are kept in a safe and secure station, not in a backpack, and items are easily replaced compared to WoW, as in WoW you spend most of your time in LFG channel, then doing the same instance over and over again hoping to get what you want. Huge difference, and imo, you can't compare the two.

As for losing your Pod, and needing a new clone, they're very, very cheap. Again, only an idiot wouldn't have an updated clone while PvP'ing.

It's true that fights are not always even in EVE, but that's what's fun about it for me, you sometimes don't know what you're up against... if you don't know what you're doing.

In WOW you only carry what you need for the fight, all your assets are in the bank, the rest of the slots are left empty for loot you are going to pick up. Any WOW player would have understood this so no there is no diffrence between loosing your ship and all it's contents. I mentioned the bags to point out that everything you have not just what you are wearing is lost. Ever play D2? If you die you loose what your waring but not what your carying. So yes the comparason is valid and understandable to a WOW player.

Clones are cheep, well that statement is a matter of perspective. Just look at the local chanel when you go near the starter systems and some noob will be begging for isk because they went out and got podded after spending every last isk on their wreck of a ship. A clone at that point would be well above their income range. I usally give these guys a lvl2 frig and some miner I's and tell them to try mining until they can afford to replace everything including their clone. But usally some fanboi convinced them that EVE is only a Pew Pew pew game so they try taking that ship and pirating.

Fights in EVE are never fair and they do not have to be. EVE is not about one player fighting one other player it's about your corp fighting for every scrap of isk they can. I'm not saying that people should blob but simply stating the fact that there are no duels in EVE (outside your corp). heck I am know for chasing down Crusers and HACs in my mining barge, sure I loose the barge half the time but thats because the fight is not equal and the guy in the HAC doesn't know he is supposed to run.

Fighting in EVE is ugly, costly and unfair and thats a Good thing, that was my point, if you want a fair fight go play a FPS. Now if you want to play david or goliath then welcome to EVE.

iCeh · February 2007

So, you're telling me that in your bank on WoW you have back-up clothing, weapons, etc? No, because WoW is designed around PvE, and you don't grind to get the same items you already have, and the items you do grind for have a really, really low drop rate. There is no way you can compare a PvE game to EVE.

If WoW were created in such a way, that if you lost all your clothing and items and were easily replaced, then perhaps it would, but it's not. You have to have good gear to get better gear, that's the way it's created. In EVE you get your items with ISK, and are able to use those items with time (skill points), and not doing the same instance over and over again because of the 0.01% drop chance. Also, the fact that on PvP Servers you must enter PvP zones to level up... imagine in EVE if you wanted to train up your skills higher than level 3, you must enter 0.4 or below.

I do play both WoW, and EVE, so I know the difference in gaining items and I'm not just making this up as I go along.

Btw, I have loads of stuff in my inventory, I can't fit it all in the bank. I even have Alts that hold my stuff, but my inventory is still full of my trade skill items. My point isn't that though, like I said, it's the way you get the items... they're just too different games to compare.

What are noobs doing going out in places they can get killed, if they can't afford a basic clone? I don't believe for a second that someone could believe that they'd be fine, just because someone told them so, especially when a big warning pops up in their face "Warning!! You are entering a zone where Concord cannot protect you... etc". People who give sob stories are -9 times out of 10- just begging for money, exactly like the level 10 noobs in Orgrimmar begging for 30s because they can't afford their new skills. It's nonsense! They could easily go out, kill a few mobs and easily get that money... and that's the same with every game out there, you can't do anything if you do nothing for yourself.

I hope you don't think i'm having a go btw, I just think it was too harsh of a judgment to compare EVE with WoW. I know if I had never played EVE before, thinking it was like WoW but losing all your items would make me instantly turn the other way.

Bahemoth · March 2007

PvP in EVE is diffrent than in most games

Its an unforgiving, ruthless, dirty, and vicious affair (and thats why we love it)

asfar as no 1v1 fights thats untrue there are quite a number of corps ive met who will honor 1v1 challanges. you just cant roam around looking for a fight and expect a 1v1 thats somethign you set up with someone

and someone said something about deployment times... thats completely depending on who your flying with. my corp takes about 15 minutes to field a 5-10 man gang if were all close by and 45ish if were spread all over space. wheris ive seen some corps who take 1 hour to field the same team if they are close by

Flipburger · March 2007

Originally posted by dargonight

I am a current world of warcraft subscriber who is a little downtrodent at the moment. I like world of warcraft because of the cool pve and because i know the lore of it. The pvp in world of warcraft leaves me with something to be desired. I was hoping either eve or city of heroes could fill that void. I hear a lot about how eve has huge space fights like the galactic battle im reading about on the forums. My question is how does the pvp system work in eve and what is the pvp community like? Also, can a new player get in on the pvp fun and be usefull?

                                                              Thanks,
                                                                               Dargonight

Most of the PvP in Eve is like the Reavers in the movie Serenity. Lots of blood thirsty lunatics.

Drafell · March 2007

PvP in EvE is not really a viable option until you have invested at least a month into the game, and even then your choice of roles are extremely limited. After you have invested a couple of months, then you do have more choice as to what you can participate in, but otherwise I don't find the EvE's PvP system to be that accessible for newer players. It's there and it's reasonably good, but there are also some other factors to take into account, such as the real cost.

If you want to focus on PvP you will spend a LOT of time generating income to keep your stock of ships, equipment and ammo supplied. This is probably the games biggest weakness - it is very time intensive if you want the PvP to be the primary focus of your gameplay, so be prepared to spend a lot of downtime simply getting ready for it.

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