this game is destroying itself, it doesn't need player feedback

Rekindle · February 2007

I watched this game for years hoping it would be the sucessor to EQ we all wanted it to be. And in the beginning it was going to be I think. Then they drove a wedge right down through the community with the SOE thing. Whichever side you're on you know that before the announcement things were a lot different with this game. Whether SOE was good or bad I think we can all agree the announcement polarized the community. Since that time the hype for this game has fed in on itself and taken the opportunity it once was and arsed it up royaly.

Then the last few stages of beta came and they revamped system after system last minute. Then at very last minute, a very buggy 17 gig game was released and called "production". No one agreeed the game was ready, many of us in the beta community said it would be a very bad idea and that the game would get chewed up in the mmorpg gaming circles.

With all this in mind they made a game had the potential to look decent on a computer manufactuered after 2005 and thousands of gamers realized they didnt have great systems anymore so couldn't play if they wanted to.

The people who have made this game have made it more impossible for me, the "Core gamer" as they put it, than if I had pulled the internet connection out of the back of my computer.

To be perfectly honest I'm back in Burning Crusade playing a blood elf pally and I dont follow the tribulations of the Vanguard community. I choose not to be one of the people that purchased this game at launch so they can cash up a pay the beta fund.

I'm sorry but they had lots of opportunities to do things differently. Maybe they should have released two good continents at launch and focused resources on other areas like , i dunno, story line and quests.

Many of us warned them and many of us called this. I still hope that Vanguard is a good game in 2 years but now it has to dig itself out of a hole it dug itself into. If this game plays anything like it did in the late stages of beta i would say this game isn't even in the same class as WoW (not tryign to troll here) but I've played them all (and I mean almost all) and WoW was the most expensive game to make, took the longest and is now the most polished game I have ever played online. Funny how Blizzard seemed to embrace completely oppostie values to SoE and Sigil: quality, high performance, creative, artistic and FUN.

Mars505 · February 2007

Originally posted by Rekindle

I watched this game for years hoping it would be the sucessor to EQ we all wanted it to be. And in the beginning it was going to be I think. Then they drove a wedge right down through the community with the SOE thing. Whichever side you're on you know that before the announcement things were a lot different with this game. Whether SOE was good or bad I think we can all agree the announcement polarized the community. Since that time the hype for this game has fed in on itself and taken the opportunity it once was and arsed it up royaly.
Then the last few stages of beta came and they revamped system after system last minute. Then at very last minute, a very buggy 17 gig game was released and called "production". No one agreeed the game was ready, many of us in the beta community said it would be a very bad idea and that the game would get chewed up in the mmorpg gaming circles.
With all this in mind they made a game had the potential to look decent on a computer manufactuered after 2005 and thousands of gamers realized they didnt have great systems anymore so couldn't play if they wanted to.
The people who have made this game have made it more impossible for me, the "Core gamer" as they put it, than if I had pulled the internet connection out of the back of my computer.
To be perfectly honest I'm back in Burning Crusade playing a blood elf pally and I dont follow the tribulations of the Vanguard community. I choose not to be one of the people that purchased this game at launch so they can cash up a pay the beta fund.
I'm sorry but they had lots of opportunities to do things differently. Maybe they should have released two good continents at launch and focused resources on other areas like , i dunno, story line and quests.
Many of us warned them and many of us called this. I still hope that Vanguard is a good game in 2 years but now it has to dig itself out of a hole it dug itself into. If this game plays anything like it did in the late stages of beta i would say this game isn't even in the same class as WoW (not tryign to troll here) but I've played them all (and I mean almost all) and WoW was the most expensive game to make, took the longest and is now the most polished game I have ever played online. Funny how Blizzard seemed to embrace completely oppostie values to SoE and Sigil: quality, high performance, creative, artistic and FUN.

Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, The core beta testers for vangaurd where fans, and they seemed to not want to take the time and actual beta test the game. When I arrived in the late beta I was profoundly shocked at how unploshied the newbie area where as well as the quests.

Also with the VanFans at the spectrum constantly praising the game on the Sigil boards it is no wonder the game is in the current state it is now. To top that off with one of the worst community Cordinators that I've ever seen for a beta it was destined for distaster long before I arrived to test.

When I listed the thinga that I felt need improvement I was relieved from testing and told to not come back, as well as the VanFans on the nmessage board constantly saying it was our fault that we couldn't get certain part of the game to function.

It is a huge shame to cause I was definitly looking forward to this title , and this is what happenes when you let none objective fans beta test your title.

xAlrythx · February 2007

I agree 100%, they released at the worst time they could, and even worse the game wasn't complete, by the time they even fix the game up the old rehashed boring gameplay will be destroyed by the likes of AoC and WAR....

Deathstiny · March 2007

couldn't agree more.

Viktaal · March 2007

Originally posted by Mars505

Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, The core beta testers for vangaurd where fans, and they seemed to not want to take the time and actual beta test the game. When I arrived in the late beta I was profoundly shocked at how unploshied the newbie area where as well as the quests.

Also with the VanFans at the spectrum constantly praising the game on the Sigil boards it is no wonder the game is in the current state it is now. To top that off with one of the worst community Cordinators that I've ever seen for a beta it was destined for distaster long before I arrived to test.

When I listed the thinga that I felt need improvement I was relieved from testing and told to not come back, as well as the VanFans on the nmessage board constantly saying it was our fault that we couldn't get certain part of the game to function.

It is a huge shame to cause I was definitly looking forward to this title , and this is what happenes when you let none objective fans beta test your title. I was quite vocal throughout my testing period aswell. That is when I started to realized how ignorant and rabid many of the fanbois were. They refused to see any negatives or flaws in the game. That had to be the worst beta I have ever been in, and not just the game, but the damn testers. Well, they got what they deserved, a broken POS home in need of serious repairs. Karma my friend, karma

I still fail to see how anyone can say this game was better than AO's release. I was in the alpha test and from my recollection it was a tad better than Vg's beta. Hell, I would say this game is on par with DnL's release even though the Vanbois would disagree. The only difference is that Sigil has a large backbone in SoE to help them out.

You hit the nail on the head with the core testers. Either they were to busy farming/grinding or they just didn't have any experience.

Look at Horizons, they were still trying to get the newbie quests fixed as of last year. That will be VG 2 years down the road if they manage to survive - (That is unless Sigil sells out to SoE, then I could see the game get polished a bit sooner) Sigil just doesn't have the funds to effectively complete this alpha game, and they will go down just like Horizons did unless Brad sells out. I can't see this game drawing in enough subs to keep Sigil in charge with enough of a staff to get it done. Sorry, but that is my opinion and my prediction.

With that said, it looks like SoE has a little more influence than what the Vanbois wish to see. Just look at the double XP fiasco. That has SoE ala EQ2 written all over it.

Unknown · March 2007

Hell, I would say this game is on par with DnL's release.

I don't play Vanguard, but Vanguard in beta was 10 billion times better then DnL. DnL is the game that convinced me never to pre-order again. It was so bad in just every conceivable way.

At least Vanguard worked for the most part. It just wasn't polished. At all.

Shadrak · March 2007

I like vanguard. Maybe I should say I like the idea of Vanguard. Performance issues are starting to get to me now though and I swear I can not find groups. I spend most of my time soloing trash mobs for trash exp/loot while LFG.

losing faith in all MMORPGs.... picked up Jade Empire for pc today..gonna take a break for a day or 2...

Markaj · March 2007

I agree with the OP. I think however that the game being released in such a sloppy state has little to do with SOE involvement. Dev team has done something wrong in the past 5 years. I don't know what as they haven't revealed it, but it was seriously wrong.

Also, it is not only about the bugs, it is the lack of feeling, the lack of character and lore in the game. It is the vision that has been changed many times and turned out a muddy mish mash of past games and this attempt has failed too. The other thing is the overall graphical inconsistency added to very sad rendering issues. I know that I would not mind the small bugs if wherever I turned my head there wouldn't be something that bites the eye.

(However, I should add Vanguard was slightly better than DnL. It would be unfair to say they were equally bad).

dand3 · March 2007

Originally posted by Markaj

I agree with the OP. I think however that the game being released in such a sloppy state has little to do with SOE involvement. Dev team has done something wrong in the past 5 years. I don't know what as they haven't revealed it, but it was seriously wrong.
Also, it is not only about the bugs, it is the lack of feeling, the lack of character and lore in the game. It is the vision that has been changed many times and turned out a muddy mish mash of past games and this attempt has failed too. The other thing is the overall graphical inconsistency added to very sad rendering issues. I know that I would not mind the small bugs if wherever I turned my head there wouldn't be something that bites the eye.
(However, I should add Vanguard was slightly better than DnL. It would be unfair to say they were equally bad).

I played in beta, bought the game, played increasingly unhappily for pretty much the reasons quoted. Got invited into LotRO beta. Discovered you can't cancel VG during the free first 30 days.

Fair enough. Just as I left, quest xp was upped, and there was a double xp weekend sometime. Apparently, some rethinking is being done.

Keushpuppy · March 2007

This reminds me of another game that was released to early, AC2 . We the beta testers tried to tell them it wasnt ready but Microsoft wanted money. They released and got bad press like VG is. The bad thing is even if VG slowly becomes the game it could of been most people don't come back once they leave. Bad tastes don't go away. AC2 was a very good game before it shut down but no one was playing it then.

Rekindle · March 2007

There's just something wrong with their business model and thinking here. Whoever came up with the idea that they should release a subpar product and have consumers pay to fix/finish it has the wrong idea. Beyond the fact I couldn't play this game if Iwanted to, I don't think I want to support that type of thinking.

SOE, and now Sigil, have almost this adversarial relationship with their fanbase. If this is not biting the hand(s) that feed them I have no idea what is.

Someone from Sigil needs to load up the game client on an average machine and ask themselves "would I buy this game and play it for 10 hours a week?"

Any company that knowingly releases subpar quality software deserves the type of feed back and criticism its getting.

Synexis · March 2007

Originally posted by Keushpuppy

This reminds me of another game that was released to early, AC2 . We the beta testers tried to tell them it wasnt ready but Microsoft wanted money. They released and got bad press like VG is. The bad thing is even if VG slowly becomes the game it could of been most people don't come back once they leave. Bad tastes don't go away. AC2 was a very good game before it shut down but no one was playing it then.

The evolution of an MMO from launch forward is an interesting thing. EQ2 didn't get stellar reviews at launch either. In fact, EQ2 at launch was not a very good game. However, SoE worked hard to improve EQ2 and many people will agree that EQ2 has become a far better game.

Vanguard has a lot going for it. Right now, I think their biggest issue is bugs and performance, not actual gameplay itself. Personally, I think the gameplay is quite good. But far too many people don't get to enjoy the gameplay because they are crashing, getting terrible FPS or experiencing bugs. Sigil needs to work hard on the performance and bug issues. I believe that if more people could actually play the game without crashing or having major bugs haunt their gameplay, there would be far more people that enjoyed the game for what it is.

Just my two bits.

Thamoris · March 2007

Originally posted by Viktaal

Originally posted by Mars505

Dude, I couldn't agree with you more, The core beta testers for vangaurd where fans, and they seemed to not want to take the time and actual beta test the game. When I arrived in the late beta I was profoundly shocked at how unploshied the newbie area where as well as the quests.

Also with the VanFans at the spectrum constantly praising the game on the Sigil boards it is no wonder the game is in the current state it is now. To top that off with one of the worst community Cordinators that I've ever seen for a beta it was destined for distaster long before I arrived to test.

When I listed the thinga that I felt need improvement I was relieved from testing and told to not come back, as well as the VanFans on the nmessage board constantly saying it was our fault that we couldn't get certain part of the game to function.

It is a huge shame to cause I was definitly looking forward to this title , and this is what happenes when you let none objective fans beta test your title. I was quite vocal throughout my testing period aswell. That is when I started to realized how ignorant and rabid many of the fanbois were. They refused to see any negatives or flaws in the game. That had to be the worst beta I have ever been in, and not just the game, but the damn testers. Well, they got what they deserved, a broken POS home in need of serious repairs. Karma my friend, karma

I still fail to see how anyone can say this game was better than AO's release. I was in the alpha test and from my recollection it was a tad better than Vg's beta. Hell, I would say this game is on par with DnL's release even though the Vanbois would disagree. The only difference is that Sigil has a large backbone in SoE to help them out.

You hit the nail on the head with the core testers. Either they were to busy farming/grinding or they just didn't have any experience.

Look at Horizons, they were still trying to get the newbie quests fixed as of last year. That will be VG 2 years down the road if they manage to survive - (That is unless Sigil sells out to SoE, then I could see the game get polished a bit sooner) Sigil just doesn't have the funds to effectively complete this alpha game, and they will go down just like Horizons did unless Brad sells out. I can't see this game drawing in enough subs to keep Sigil in charge with enough of a staff to get it done. Sorry, but that is my opinion and my prediction.

With that said, it looks like SoE has a little more influence than what the Vanbois wish to see. Just look at the double XP fiasco. That has SoE ala EQ2 written all over it.

I played Horizons daily for 3 years ...up untill I started playing Vanguard beta...and you have no idea what you are talking about.

Vanguard is NOWHERE NEAR the state Horizons was a month after launch...nothing even close...not at all...total complete lie.

Since Vanguard has launched the performance has been increased by at least 30%. I play on an old machine ( AMD 3500, Nvid 6600, with 1gig of ram ) and average 25-30 fps on the high performance setting and 20-25 fps on the balanced settings. I have yet to encounter a single broke quest. There have been several massive updates ...including increased melee damage, class balancing and numerous tweaks to enhance game performance.

Vanguard will not travel the same road as Horizons. Not even close. I have a guild of over 60 ..very active players and they are all having a great time. There are players all over the place.

I think yall just hate SoE and will dog on anything they do. I think most of yall just found the game TOO HARD...and had your egos smashed when you couldn't ding a new level every hour.

Vanguard will have 200k in subs within six months from launch..they will have over 400k a year from now. Mark my words..I'm in the game..I'm playing it...I see whats happening and in contact with ALOT of players in the game DAILY...and you couldn't be farther from the truth.

Two main issues remain...disconects ( probably my 1 gig of ram) and chunk crossings remain pretty rough ( again..mostly due to my 1 gig of ram/ low end machine )

Learn how to REALLY play a mmo....understand that you will ALWAYS have to upgrade you cpu to play the latest and greatest and then..only then..will you be able to graduate from carebear WoW and Lotr games. Know that all mmos that pust the limits of what can be done onlie will always start off a bit rough.

Horizons was a game before its time...it will go down in history as the biggest disappointment as it truely has way more to offer than any other mmo in the past 3 years.

Vanguard will live a long..long..healthy life online for the next 5-8 years...I'd bet my house on that.

Kcissem · March 2007

Originally posted by Thamoris

Originally posted by Viktaal

Originally posted by Mars505