Attention US beta testers; The Old Forest

different · March 2007

The EU recently got a patch that made the Old Forest very easy to navigate i.e paths with torches. There are several threads already with people up in arms about the changes.

One of the Dev team posted that they's had lots of requests to make the Old Forest simpler, yet in the EU forums there were no such requests.

Any of you US beta testers know what the hell happened, were there lots of whines over there pre-chage or what?

HensenLiros · March 2007

Are you serious?! Man I LOVED that place..

I didn't hear anyone complaining about it.. Actually I've been there several times and I've never seen anyone having troubles in there. Actually a lot of people farm ores and branches inside the forest.

Man I'm sooooo mad ='(

different · March 2007

People were getting lost and some must have complained I guess. The fact that is is the Old Forest and getting lost is expected must have past some people by

HensenLiros · March 2007

I'll make sure to check that out soon, but I really didn't expect that..

After seeing Old Forest somewhat crowed (because of quests and chapter 10) I could swear that everybody loved it as much as I do.

Having basically no map for it and being able to get lost and die at any moment (if you're low enough) is just too cool.

Sovrath · March 2007

Well, people said they were getting lost but people also said they liked it.

However, after seeing what they did, it's not THAT much easier to navigate. Just add a little here and there close to places like entrances and Tom Bombadil's house.

Xpheyel · March 2007

Man I hope not. If people can't hack it in the Old Forest they should just stay out. You can avoid doing anything in there except for one quest.

newage2 · March 2007

Took some time to learn the forest, but thats how it should be imho.

Only time I had real troubles in there was when I was playing drunk... lmao.. WTH AM I!?

cooldevo · March 2007

People often don't want creativity in games. They want the same old drivel churned out time and time again. If they don't the game isn't right or proper.

I've seen many a good game go downhill because of this.... I'm almost tempted to call it CareBear syndrome. It's rampant in every game. If they can't play their character as well as someone else and die in a PvP match, the winner obviously cheated, ganked, or their toon is somehow being held back by problems with the game. Doesn't matter that they are complete morons, or wouldn't be able to PvP if their lives depended on it; it's the games fault.

Games that focus on PvP have a lot of problems with this I've found. "This build of toon is too weak, we need to give more power to these skills to balance the game out" And what ends up happening is that throws everything else out of balance. If I'm an archer and I can drop my melee opponent before they get to me, that's not a problem with the game. That's a problem with the meleer picking the wrong fight. But that's not "fun" and isn't entertaining at that point. Every class has to be able to go toe-to-toe with every other class.

The same goes for the game world. As soon as developer seem to hear certain "buzzwords" the panic alarm goes off and they will do whatever they can to keep the game from getting a reputation. Look at SWG, they added Jedi as a class, and now they run rampant in a timeframe when Jedi are supposed to be extinct. In Asheron's Call they had to add in new and special weapons that would allow a meleer the ability to kill a spellcaster. They have to add in uber-pieces of armor so that meleers can run around as stupidly as they want and not be slaughtered for it. All in the name of balancing or making the game "more fun."

Most of these changes drive me away from games, and that's part of why I'll never go back to them.

SpiritofGame · March 2007

The main problem with the "old" Old Forest was that there were far too many barriers.

Yes -- people on the US Beta Boards asked for the Old Forest to be opened up a bit. Turbine agreed and made the Old Forest easier to navigate through.

I remember the "old" Old Forest and I have been in the "new" Old Forest, and I personally like the new, more open Old Forest better.

Most of the "opening" has been done in the northern part of the forest. The southern part still retains most of its complexity and maze-like feeling.

starman999 · March 2007

Originally posted by cooldevo

People often don't want creativity in games. They want the same old drivel churned out time and time again. If they don't the game isn't right or proper.

I've seen many a good game go downhill because of this.... I'm almost tempted to call it CareBear syndrome. It's rampant in every game. If they can't play their character as well as someone else and die in a PvP match, the winner obviously cheated, ganked, or their toon is somehow being held back by problems with the game. Doesn't matter that they are complete morons, or wouldn't be able to PvP if their lives depended on it; it's the games fault.

Games that focus on PvP have a lot of problems with this I've found. "This build of toon is too weak, we need to give more power to these skills to balance the game out" And what ends up happening is that throws everything else out of balance. If I'm an archer and I can drop my melee opponent before they get to me, that's not a problem with the game. That's a problem with the meleer picking the wrong fight. But that's not "fun" and isn't entertaining at that point. Every class has to be able to go toe-to-toe with every other class.

The same goes for the game world. As soon as developer seem to hear certain "buzzwords" the panic alarm goes off and they will do whatever they can to keep the game from getting a reputation. Look at SWG, they added Jedi as a class, and now they run rampant in a timeframe when Jedi are supposed to be extinct. In Asheron's Call they had to add in new and special weapons that would allow a meleer the ability to kill a spellcaster. They have to add in uber-pieces of armor so that meleers can run around as stupidly as they want and not be slaughtered for it. All in the name of balancing or making the game "more fun."

Most of these changes drive me away from games, and that's part of why I'll never go back to them.

Thus endeth the lesson amen......

This post sums up exactly the way I feel about these games in general. People want to do stupid things without any consequences (ie knife to a gunfight) and when it doesnt go their way they want to cry foul. Its a problem with idiot players not bad game mechanics.

Anyone who doesnt play to their strengths and use whatever edge they have to defeat their opponent is a fool and deserves whatever he gets.

[Deleted User] · March 2007

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Xpheyel · March 2007

I loved the old Old Forest. It isn't supposed to be a normal forest in any event. The only reason they probably changed it was because people wouldn't take the time to learn to navigate it.

[Deleted User] · March 2007

The user and all related content has been deleted.

OBK1 · March 2007

My experience is that testers that bitch are often good testers, since they actually point out difficulties with the gaming experience. Then after the reports it is up to the developers to decide if changes should be made or if they think that it is just "whining".

But then I am a "Codemaster tester" and hence a european.

Jackdog · March 2007

Originally posted by SpiritofGame

The main problem with the "old" Old Forest was that there were far too many barriers.
Yes -- people on the US Beta Boards asked for the Old Forest to be opened up a bit. Turbine agreed and made the Old Forest easier to navigate through.
I remember the "old" Old Forest and I have been in the "new" Old Forest, and I personally like the new, more open Old Forest better.
Most of the "opening" has been done in the northern part of the forest. The southern part still retains most of its complexity and maze-like feeling.

I have not been in the "new" old forest yet however I rather did like the "old" old forest. It was quite challanging although as you said there were a lot of people that did not. I guess this is just one of those instrances where Turbine listened to the testers but I kind of wish they had not. There was one long post on the US beta boards back in beta one where I would say 90% plus of the posts were in favor of it being opened up.

RK-Mara · March 2007

People were having problems with Old Forest. People got lost! But that's a good thing. Old Forest was really well designed because you are supposed to get lost in Old Forest except if you know the place very well like Tom.

Jackdog · March 2007

Originally posted by RK-Mara

People were having problems with Old Forest. People got lost! But that's a good thing. Old Forest was really well designed because you are supposed to get lost in Old Forest except if you know the place very well like Tom.

I got lost in there for about three hours one afternoon, it was quite fun.

Mars505 · March 2007

Originally posted by OBK1

My experience is that testers that bitch are often good testers, since they actually point out difficulties with the gaming experience. Then after the reports it is up to the developers to decide if changes should be made or if they think that it is just "whining".
But then I am a "Codemaster tester" and hence a european.

Being in the Archlord beta , their is a lot of Antisemitism from the testers regardless what changes are made to the game. The testers codemasters seemed to get are very unsatisfiable to put it lightly . Think about it like how vanguard forum was, and then times the flaming and times it by 10, it is probably one of the hardest jobs in the industry to be the codemaster's community cordinater. A majority of the testers from archlord could not or ever be satisfied no matter what changes where made, and for the most part they totally stalled a game that now, when you look back at it, had less bugs then Vanguard.

I feel the changes in the old forest are stellar , and they will leave you even more confused then before.

Mars505 · March 2007

I scanned the Officail forums ,one thread, with 6-8 posts in it, so it is not a huge flame out here on the NA side of the pond ....Some liked the old one , and the newer beta people said is was challenging . Again not a flame fest on the NA boards .

virtuella · March 2007

Originally posted by Mars505

I scanned the Officail forums ,one thread, with 6-8 posts in it, so it is not a huge flame out here on the NA side of the pond ....Some liked the old one , and the newer beta people said is was challenging . Again not a flame fest on the NA boards .

So the conclusion is this.

US players want an easy game.

EU players want some challenges.

I demand they change the old forest back to the old old forest.

It should be a living nightmare to navigate though it imo.

virtuella · March 2007

lol just saw this picture on the EU betaforums.

It describes the new forest pretty good.

Mars505 · March 2007

rofl , they are over reacting just like in Arch Lords . The forest to me is harder to navigate, In beta 1 it was way easier cause their wasn't a lot of area to explore, The way it is now , more open area, more ways to get confused. Codemasters needs to realize , 1/2 of their test base is just straight up haters of anything.

rsaint · March 2007

Anything Turbine do to make the game more easy is bad imo, its easy enough now, it should be a hard challenging game, not frustrating game though, but getting lost in a forest isnt frustrating because you have RECALL, so I think if newbs want a easy game to play you better go play WoW or makey your own game with a level up button, mmorpgs should be getting more complex with the evolution and not more easy, in 10 years we all going to play games with no need to level up we all gonna start maxed lvl, with all the good loot, and it will be impossible to kill anyone in pvp because everyone will have same power so they will have to die at the same time or not die at all to be perfectly balanced, geez

different · March 2007

Originally posted by Mars505

Being in the Archlord beta , their is a lot of Antisemitism from the testers regardless what changes are made to the game. T

Are you for real or is that a mis-spelling/language barrier thing?

Cerion · March 2007

I as an NA player hate the addition of the road. The path leads from Crickhollow straight to Tom's house. Why didn't the Hobbits follow that path? Could have saved them a near-death experience.

They did open up the river which is fine by me because it didn't make sense that you couldn't at least swim if need be along the river.

And yes there were some debates about the issue around Alpha and early beta. I personally didn't enter the debate (other than to say I liked the Old Forest to be confusing--that's the point of it) because it seemed overwhelmingly clear that most people wanted the Old Forest as is. I didn't think the devs would change it because of this. Had I known that we're supposed to fight just as hard for everything we like as those things we don't, I would have been more vocal.

If they got rid of the road, I'd be happy with the compromise.

Mars505 · March 2007

Originally posted by rsaint

Anything Turbine do to make the game more easy is bad imo, its easy enough now, it should be a hard challenging game, not frustrating game though, but getting lost in a forest isnt frustrating because you have RECALL, so I think if newbs want a easy game to play you better go play WoW or makey your own game with a level up button, mmorpgs should be getting more complex with the evolution and not more easy, in 10 years we all going to play games with no need to level up we all gonna start maxed lvl, with all the good loot, and it will be impossible to kill anyone in pvp because everyone will have same power so they will have to die at the same time or not die at all to be perfectly balanced, geez

The old forest is about 20 times nice looking as well with the added tweaking , telling people it is"easier" doesn't explain anything , what exactly is wrong with the old forest ?

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