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Is WAR a World Beater Or A Hype Factory?
KinslayerX
Member Posts: 87
Serious enough question. I know we have the Warhammer fanboys who are already proclaiming it as the MMO's saviour and we always have the boo boys who put everything down and then there's your average punters somewhere in the middle, but will WAR be a victim of it's own hype?
Back when CoH, SWG, Lineage and WoW were all hitting the shelves, MMO's were still new and shiny and all of those games sufficiently different to get their own little groups of support.
Fast forward to present day and we've had Vanguard which promised a 'next generation experience' but we simply got a same old experience with flashier graphics. Then there's LOTRO which has had people with high hopes running to beta and finding that, despite it's impressive looks, it's once again more of the same.
So, can WAR or even the upcoming Conan really offer something new or just more of the same packaged slightly differently and with a few new novelty features that will lose appeal/become annoying within 6 months of launch?
Let me set a challenge to board members on here, I'm a consumer with my fistful of dollars to be poured into some publishers pocket. I see LOTRO, Conan, Burning Crusade, DDO and any other number of MMO's sitting on a shelf in front of me. Why should I buy WAR, what is going to make it different from any other grindy, 14 year old gank fest, time sink MMO? More to the point, can the members of this board actually come up with a sales pitch to put WAR's own PR department to shame 
CoH/CoV - D-Zol/Kinslayer
Auto Assault - Slayer
WoW, LOTRO, DDO - Kinsul
Matrix Online - Tempest
Comments
First off, let's cover those other games you mentioned.
Vanguard did in fact sell itself as a new experience for the next generation, and it is in fact just the same old thing with some twists. Even worse, it's development was like, "Brad sat in a cave for a decade, ignoring all other MMOs. Now he's remaking Everquest... oops, he changed his mind mid-development." So Vanguard became an uneven mashing of hardcore and casual play. But those points aren't where it failed. It's code isn't optimized, the gameworld is incomplete, bugs galore, and my opinion, the art design sucks.
But it didn't fail because of its "same old" gameplay.
LotRO was simply too secretive for too long, and suffered from misconceptions. Several years ago, when the project was at another developer (not Turbine), it was called Middle Earth Online. It was besically being described as "The Sims: Middle Earth." Many people were expecting to build houses and farm realistically. Then Turbine got a hold of it, decided that those concepts wouldn't make for a fun, successful game, and switched it over the the usual combat-oriented fantasy MMO. They aren't even trying to hide the fact that it's more of the same. It is a game intended for casual players that are either new to the MMO genre, or are Tolkien fans. It'll probably get a respectable 200,000 to 300,000 subscribers.
But people disappointed with the Beta were people with false expectations. Turbine is only at fault for being so bloody secretive about their game design.
Ok, so now we're at WAR. WAR is going to be an MMO similar to so many others, with a focus on meaningful and constant RvR.
"Gasp! WAR is going to be more of the "same old thing," with some twists?!?"
Yes, and quite honestly, gamers like you are starting to annoy me. MMOs were a brand new experience over a decade ago. Now it is an established genre. Each new game is merely a refinement of what came before. If it was an all new experience, it wouldn't be an MMO! It's all about Evolution, not Revolution.
Why are we looking forward to WAR? Because it's an MMO with a PvP emphasis. It's an MMO based on the beloved Warhammer franchise. It's an MMO where the RvR means something, and there are overarching goals (capturing enemy cities).
IT'S AN MMO!!!
Seriously, how often do you go to a forum for an FPS and say, "Gee, I hope this isn't just some running around and shooting guns at people." When was the last time you went to a RTS forum and whined, "are we going to have to collect resources and build armies, AGAIN?" And for fighting games, do you say, "Ugh, button combinations?!? When are they going to try something new?"
You know what? I like MMOs. I like creating a character, running around killing mobs and players, getting stronger abilites, crafting some items, and generally just socializing with thousands of others. And I expect that basic formula every time I see a game that's being called an MMO.
But I also understand that MMOs require one hell of a commitment, and some players get burned out on it. Go away. Go play some other genre for a while. And when you feel the MMO itch again, come back and enjoy WAR. It's going to be a great, immersive MMO.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
So, for me, WAR has got me interested because of its RvR. If you've played DAoC you'll know that RvR is just bloody amazing, and being a FPS fan I love just going around killing people, and that's what WAR is all about.
I think WAR will be DAoC with the bad bits taken out (for me, the bad animations, and character control), and a lot more good bits put into it. I'm not looking forward to this game because it's "Warhammer", or because it's Mythic (even though they're making it difficult to not be that reason, as they're doing an awesome job with the Newsletters and keeping us updated as much as they're allowed), it's because I'm told that I get to kill people, and take over cities/towns!!
-iCeh
Well said Areel... I agree with you 99%. WoW is the perfect example...it didn't re-invent or promise to be the next gen. of MMO, it took established ideas and made them better and the game was pretty solid when it was released. That's the key make the bloody games stable, which is what WAR is doing (well at least I hope).
Yeah, I re-read my first post, and I may have been a bit too harsh. I'm just really tired of two different types of threads:
1. People with too high of expectations.
2. People wanting us to "sell the game" to them.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
killing every week the same boss with the same tactic over and over again gets just boring fast
in pvp u always have new fights, new enemys and u have to use new tactics
War's real competition will be Conan only since both gear toward rvr/pvp but so far War is winning the # because of the publicity and info while there is barely any info from Conan other than its going to have DX10. If u are sitting there wondering why u should play War then u got no clue about rvr/pvp because anyone who love to rvr/pvp would have heard about daoc. Go do some research before u come challenge ppl like u know all about mmorpg.
That to me is awesome. Add that along with the over 400 images you can find about the game compare to the over 100 images about AoC, and the development team has me hooked.
The real reason why you would pick WAR over the other games the OP listed, is because of RvR. It's PvP, but it's much more meaningful. You can capture zones, you can sack enemy capital cities, you can loot the cities and capture the king. On the flipside, you can also explore the vast world of Warhammer and see what there is to see, fight iconic characters like Teclis and explore the facets of the Warhammer world in a virtual environment.
This may sound like fanboi-ism, but honestly it's just Warhammer lore fanaticism. I've never been able to afford the expensive hobby that the Table Top game offers, so this is my way of experiencing all that there is to experience in Warhammer without spending thousands of dollars.
---------------------------------------------
I live to fight, and fight to live.
But was WoW a Hype factory?
And the answer to that is NO, not really. They delivered on most of the promises they made. Sometimes that took months or even years but most of the things they promised happened (Except freaking Hero classes).
WAR has also made a lot of statements BUT we are able to see almost step by step whats happening there. They are not even really 'advertising the game', the press and the consumer base is doing that for them. They are just making the process transparent for us.
HYPE: Is building up someones expectations above and beyond whats reasonable. Vangaurd (in my opinion) was a hype factory. War is not. The developers have made a lot of statements about what they are TRYING TO DO. They have not made any blanket suppositions about it or any broad statements about it besides Paul saying: "it will be dead fun".
So no, its not a hype factory. Any HYPE that was created has been by us (the consumers) and the media. All the stuff we see is just them being transparent and letting us in on the process. Its rather hard to say "they said this will be in or that wont be in", when you can see exactly what they are doing with the game, and even if they change something we can see that and why they changed it.
So don't believe the hype, because any hype you hear is from us, not from Mythic.
Hero classes? Where are they? I quit playing a while back but still have not hear anything about them, and it has been more than two years since release.
The biggest promise, I think, was their basic philosophy of minimal super-duper uber raids. Well, that was fairly true until they patched in more and more raiding and left people with nothing else to do but raid at 60, and now 70. I have not played Burning Crusade, so this is just hearsay, but people are again complaining that while there are fewer massive 20-man raids, the game is not casual.
So, they broke their design philosophy, at least partially. But hey, even though I do not play anymore I think the game is topnotch and a lot of fun, and so do 8M others. I am just disappointed they could not figure out a way to keep the game engaging without resorting to raids.
As for WAR, they have definitely been very vocal about there design philosophy (war, war, war) and have also said their game is not going to be about those uber raids - I support this, and hope they stick to it. If RvR is good, the game does not need to have this elite PvE content shoved down our throats so we do not quit playing. I'll take dynamic encounters with real players any day, especially since this is more likely to allow me a chance to sit down for an hour or two, play, have fun, and feel like I accomplished something.
As for Areel's post, he is spot on and said perfectly what I feel, too. MMORPGs seem to get more flack than any other genre for not being revolutionary with every single release. But that is what makes a genre a genre: similarity. We are still at the dawn of MMORPGs, really, so maybe we still expect to see another EverQuest which truly was revolutionary.
Anyway, I certainly support variation (something WAR will have), but I see no reason why one MMORPG should be totally different than another. If that is what you look for as a consumer, well, good luck, because you will have trouble finding it unless you play something like A Tale in the Desert.
First of all, why are those the only two options. Personally, as a WAR fanboy, I do not care if the game gets 20 subs. As long as I enjoy the game and it stays in buisness, I'm happy. Secondly, WAR is hardly a hype factory. Misleading information is not spewed out about the game to attract customers. All it's hype right now is on documented features that we can see with our own eyes in video on the interweb. If anyone tells you "OMG WAR WILL ROXXORS YOUR SOXXERS" without any reasoning to back it up, then they aren't a fanboy, they're a troll.
Second of all. I will say that WAR has no hype. No one is expecting anything. What they are doing is taking a look at what Mythic and GW have already done and saying "I like that." That's not hype, that approval. Hype is hope. Hope can let you down. People who hope, hype games like Vanguard and Dark and Light and that's why you should check a game out for yourself instead of letting the fanboys do it for you.
Nextly, as said before, you're dead wrong about Vanguard and LoTRO. Both of them PROMISED to be MORE of the SAME.
Now consumer. Go watch Paul's video blogs. Watch and learn. Watch and be amazed. Paul is the only real reason why any of us want this game.
If you're looking for us to sell you on the game, you're prolly here for the wrong reasons. As stated above, we've never set out to convince anyone that we're going to revolutionize the market/genre or anything along those lines. All we've done is present our game, as it is, without false hype or marketting gimmickery. We've shown actual ingame imagery and footage almost from day one, with the only expectation being, that if you like it, you'll play it, if you don't, you won't. No luring people in with taglines like "The greatest thing since sliced butter!" or "We're gonna turn this genre on it's head and make every other game look like Pong!"... We're not out to "kill" any other game, we don't need to. Most people fail to realize that a game doesn't need anywhere near WoW's numbers to be successful.
We're putting out one of the best PvP experiences available with our RvR. If PvP is your bag, chances are you'll check us out. If you like it and stick around, great, if it's not your cup of tea and you find a game more fitting to your playstyle, also great.
Another thing people fail to realize, which one person touched on above, is the earlier games seemed so revolutionary simply because it was the begining of a new genre... Now that the genre has stabilized you won't see such large sweeping changes in the games as in the past. You'll see minor improvements here, new features there, etc, but for the most part the genre is fairly set now. Look at FPSes, back in the day DOOM, Quake and UT were like OMGWTF... Now days a new FPS is likely to have a couple minor new features here and there, but for lack of a better way to put it, they're the "same old thing". Does this mean they're bad games? In general no, don't get me wrong, there are definitely some bad ones out there, but they aren't bad because they didn't revolutionize their genre, they're bad cause they were simply poorly made. MMORPGs have reached that crest... You're not going to see nearly as much revolution/evolution in the genre anymore, but rather smaller improvements here and there. Does this automatically mean every game from here on out will be a bad game? Nope, and if that's your opinion then you need to lower your expectations.
Sorry for the novel, I'll move along now, enjoy the rest of your day!
Richard J. Cox
"There were much of the beautiful, much of the wanton, much of the bizarre, something of the terrible, and not a little of that which might have excited disgust."
First, this is an excellent thread so far.
Second, Areel will find a lot of backers -- very well put, couldn't have said it better on ALL points.
Third, why even ask the question "Is WAR a World Beater"? Does it really matter so long as you're enjoying the game?
Fourth and finally, what is necessarily wrong with "more of the same"? So, what if LotRO, AoC and War are knockoffs of WoW (which was a knock off of EQ and DAoC....which were knockoffs of MUDs.... which were a knock off of DnD... which was a knock off of Tolkein... which was a knockoff of fairy tales and myths). If people enjoy the system but are given new adventures to play in, they'll go to it (and hopefully enjoy themselves.) It's like saying "the Forgotten Realms books stole from Tolkein" and asking "will the Inheritance Trilogy (Eragon, Eldest and whatever it will be named) save the fantasy literature market?" Some people like the genre and each new entry in the market will put its own twist on it, whether it's just storyline or maybe an aspect of the system (like diplomacy, or crafting, fps combat or player submitted content.) The point is, if you're not enjoying it, try something else then or....write/make your own game (it's quite possible with the Neverwinter Nights Aurora toolset.)
It's kind of like Star Wars -- it was amazing back then but today's generation of kids just ask "why do you hold such bad dialogue and cheesey effects in such high regard?"
The reason this is a smart move is because a lot of MMOs veil their own inability to meet their own deadlines in mystery. SoE is very infamous for this. WoW isn't really as bad at meeting their deadlines, but push content back for polish. War, on the other hand, makes its potential customers feel like they are getting the breaking news when the people who run the website release cool stuff.
To answer your question. It depends. If you are a an avid MMO player, I can tell you already the choice is going to be much narrower. SW:G and DDO aren't going to be on the shelf anyway. I know, or at least I've witnessed, SW:G resting snugly in the ten dollar sale box.
WAR is NEVER going to KILL any MMORPG. It will not sink SW:G. SW:G is a Sci-FI niche MMO with a small player base who mostly enjoy pew pew and light sabers. WAR certainly isn't going to try and crush a giant like WoW. The game has been established too long to even teeter from the release of a new game. What will most likely happen is WAR will have a big influx of already dissatisfied MMORPG players from various other games (EQ, WOW, DAOC, or any number of other titles). After a few months these players will either stick with the title or play the MMO hop they have been since EQ hit and UO player base dropped.
Also, you described CoH and SWG as "old", but I'd like you to consider that they were trying to pull the same market (and failed) that WoW conquered. Sadly, most of these games are only good for a handfull (compared to WoW) of players.
Also, I am a WAR fanboy. I am so very excited about the game, and I watched every podcast, fan art, screenshot, and any other piece of media I can handle. This does not mean I am biased when it comes to describing how it will influence the MMO market.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
Yeah, I re-read my first post, and I may have been a bit too harsh. I'm just really tired of two different types of threads:
1. People with too high of expectations.
2. People wanting us to "sell the game" to them.
I too liked your post and don't think it is too hard. Screw trying to sell someone on a game (unless it's my own). If there are too many features which are different from the MMO industry, then people will complain it isn't even an MMO.
OP, I hope you take the time to convince yourself of what to purchase. $50.00 is a big "investment" to a few people and you should spend countless hours doing research to get it right. I will be playing WAR and AOC even if it's just to see how much I like them. LOTRO, is 50/50 for me still but moving towards a try it.
The reason this is a smart move is because a lot of MMOs veil their own inability to meet their own deadlines in mystery. SoE is very infamous for this. WoW isn't really as bad at meeting their deadlines, but push content back for polish. War, on the other hand, makes its potential customers feel like they are getting the breaking news when the people who run the website release cool stuff.
To answer your question. It depends. If you are a an avid MMO player, I can tell you already the choice is going to be much narrower. SW:G and DDO aren't going to be on the shelf anyway. I know, or at least I've witnessed, SW:G resting snugly in the ten dollar sale box.
WAR is NEVER going to KILL any MMORPG. It will not sink SW:G. SW:G is a Sci-FI niche MMO with a small player base who mostly enjoy pew pew and light sabers. WAR certainly isn't going to try and crush a giant like WoW. The game has been established too long to even teeter from the release of a new game. What will most likely happen is WAR will have a big influx of already dissatisfied MMORPG players from various other games (EQ, WOW, DAOC, or any number of other titles). After a few months these players will either stick with the title or play the MMO hop they have been since EQ hit and UO player base dropped.
Also, you described CoH and SWG as "old", but I'd like you to consider that they were trying to pull the same market (and failed) that WoW conquered. Sadly, most of these games are only good for a handfull (compared to WoW) of players.
Also, I am a WAR fanboy. I am so very excited about the game, and I watched every podcast, fan art, screenshot, and any other piece of media I can handle. This does not mean I am biased when it comes to describing how it will influence the MMO market.
You ARE a fanboy, but your comments regarding the marketing are dead on.
Just my 2 cents, and it may have already been mentioned but I couldn't be bothered reading thru everything.
A lot of people see Paul as somewhat of a "hype factory" (which he is to a point) and base their views of the game on his statements such as "it will be great". Then they ask "Well why will it be great, Paul?" and are left with an answer like "because they have a cool hat". While I believe Paul is a great face for the game due to his enthusiasm and complete dedication to the game, I prefer the interviews with Jeff and Lance who tend to focus more on fact than hype. If all you have seen are Paul's interviews, I suggest looking up a few with Lance and Jeff. There's a bit meat there for factmongers like myself.
Also, I think the reaction from the media is good enough to say that WAR is not all hype. If you look through numerous hands-on reviews from the press events or gaming conventions you will not find a negative comment among them, even from some of the media outlets that are known to be a bit harder to please. That alone says a lot for the game as a whole.
Proud Member of Mongbat
PvP/RvR never gets old.
Especially in a game where gear means less than skill. Why? because nobody likes to feel they where outplayed. Theres always going to be a top team/group and there will always be 20 teams that want to be #1 and beat #1. in games based on gear, you really have no desire to beat #1 your desire when you lose is "we need more gear!!" so you run more instances. Where as when you lose to a team and your outplayed and there is no more charachter advancement you can do, thats when you start to re-evaluate your playstyle and that of those on your team.
It burns to get outplayed, and you want redemption after it happens. but when you finally beat them they now feel the same way about you..... it goes back and forth and you have a Ohio state Vs Michigan type of rivalry. This never gets old really
As far as the OP? Not every game has to be industry leader. I have reviewed tons of games over the past 11 months, trust me theres more than enough room in the mmo universe. We have forums for over 30 games and 18 in development. no one game has to dominate the market for it to be consitered a success.
First off, in response to Areel's opening reply. I don't know what I posted that upset and provoked such hostility in you because I simply asked if WAR could live up to the massive amount of anticipation surrounding it? I think it's a perfectly valid question to ask when other games have had such anticipation in the past and then failed to deliver.
As for MMO's 'evolving', no they aren't. When MMO's first started becoming big and you had CoH, SWG, Guild Wars and WoW, then they were evolving. They had different settings, different systems of levelling, completely different UI's and crafting and you could play one of those MMO's then go play another and have a different experience.
Four years down the line all this seems to have gone the way of the dodo and when you look at WoW, DDO, LOTRO, Vanguard they are all pretty much the same. The setting may be different and the classes may have slightly different roles but when it comes down to quests and content, they've not really moved on, crafting is pretty much the same, levelling is the same. When you see a game like TCOS which is clearly trying to do something different it's a very rare thing and when you get new games coming along trying to break the mould like Auto Assault, they invariably fail.
Would any developer throw the sort of money at a game like AA that they did at WoW, no. They look at what's doing well and bringing in the bucks and replicate it without taking any risks and changing things too much, maybe adding a few minor 'novelties'. If a game like AA had been given the time and budget of something like WoW could it have succeeded? Yes, because not everyone wants to run around playing a long eared fairy with a bow surrounded by leglazz, frobo, konan etc and a cyber punk style game with cars could succeed just as well as a fantasy game if given the same development and resources as would a space based oneor criminal underworld one or a zombie infested planet one.
The problem the MMO market has fallen into is that all the developers think the big money should be spent on fantasy MMO's with crafting thanks to the success of WoW and failure of games like SWG, Matrix Online, Auto Assault. They mistake those games failure with their genre or the fact their crafting wasn't the same as the other generic MMO's. The simple fact is those games failed because of other reasons.
Going to the FPS analogy, yes Doom, Quake, Call Of Duty etc are all variations on a theme, same as Tekken, Streetfighter, DOA are but that's not a good analogy. Do Capcom only make Streetfighter games or variations on them? No, they also give us Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Megaman.
Do MMO's have versions of all these different genres, from car games, fighter plane games, beat em up style games, sport games? No, all we seem to get on a grand scale are fantasy RPG games and I don't call that evolution, I call that being stuck in a rut
As for there being no hype about WAR, I think many of you must be talking about a different game to me. I never said hype from the studio's but if you think WAR isn't one of the most anticipated MMO's since WoW, then you're wrong and questioning if it can live up to this expectation is a perfectly valid topic for discussion IMO.
CoH/CoV - D-Zol/Kinslayer
Auto Assault - Slayer
WoW, LOTRO, DDO - Kinsul
Matrix Online - Tempest
I am sure WAR will be a huge hit. Nothing indicates otherwise IMO unless they do something very wrong or very drastic.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Originally posted by KinslayerX
First off, in response to Areel's opening reply. I don't know what I posted that upset and provoked such hostility in you because I simply asked if WAR could live up to the massive amount of anticipation surrounding it? I think it's a perfectly valid question to ask when other games have had such anticipation in the past and then failed to deliver.
As for MMO's 'evolving', no they aren't. When MMO's first started becoming big and you had CoH, SWG, Guild Wars and WoW, then they were evolving. They had different settings, different systems of levelling, completely different UI's and crafting and you could play one of those MMO's then go play another and have a different experience.
We obviously have different ideas about what the word "evolution" means. To me, evolution is a gradual transformation into something better. A tweak the interface layout, a variation on the gameplay mechanics, better graphics. These are evolutionary changes. Making something completely different is "revolutionary." and revolution in gaming is exactly the same as it is in real life. It's hard, it's risky, and it'll either pay off big, or it'll ruin you. Revolutions come along once in a blue moon. There were more of them early on in MMO history, because MMOs were still trying to figure out what works. Now they know, and the genre has become established. Mostly we will see evolution from here on out, with a sprinkling or revolution here and there. You're impatient. I can see that you obviously hold WoW as the turning point, when developers stopped trying new things. Yet WoW is only two years old. Wait a while, someone will try something revolutionary again.
Four years down the line all this seems to have gone the way of the dodo and when you look at WoW, DDO, LOTRO, Vanguard they are all pretty much the same. The setting may be different and the classes may have slightly different roles but when it comes down to quests and content, they've not really moved on, crafting is pretty much the same, levelling is the same. When you see a game like TCOS which is clearly trying to do something different it's a very rare thing and when you get new games coming along trying to break the mould like Auto Assault, they invariably fail.
Crafting is often considered a sidenote in development, but that's not to say it's always the same. Vanguard made a wonderous leap in crafting systems. Anyway, I don't really see The Chronicles of the Spellborn as being all that different. Again, the gameplay mechanics are slightly different from what came before, an evolutionary change. Plus, you complain about fantasy settings, but TCOS is clearly another fantasy setting. Another cliche one, at that. Broken world? Very common in fantasy.
Would any developer throw the sort of money at a game like AA that they did at WoW, no. They look at what's doing well and bringing in the bucks and replicate it without taking any risks and changing things too much, maybe adding a few minor 'novelties'. If a game like AA had been given the time and budget of something like WoW could it have succeeded? Yes, because not everyone wants to run around playing a long eared fairy with a bow surrounded by leglazz, frobo, konan etc and a cyber punk style game with cars could succeed just as well as a fantasy game if given the same development and resources as would a space based oneor criminal underworld one or a zombie infested planet one.
And here's where some of my hostility comes back. Money would have made AA better? HA! AA had a fair enough budget for an MMO. Their problem was that the game suffered from too much "sameness," had terrible animations for anything that wasn't a car, the game didn't lend itself to player interaction very well, and bottom line is that it WAS BORING! No amount of money is going to make up for poor design. So many other MMOs have succeeded, that didn't have the Blizzard fortune to back them up. They succeeded because they were good games. Don't bother bringing money in as an excuse.
The problem the MMO market has fallen into is that all the developers think the big money should be spent on fantasy MMO's with crafting thanks to the success of WoW and failure of games like SWG, Matrix Online, Auto Assault. They mistake those games failure with their genre or the fact their crafting wasn't the same as the other generic MMO's. The simple fact is those games failed because of other reasons.
Right. SWG failed because the company kept driving off their customer base with changes, and butchered the lore. Matrix Online was buggy and played horribly. And Auto Assault was, as I've already said, boring! In the end, the companies didn't make games that the people wanted to play. That should say something to you. The average player didn't like those games. Some of a developer's motivation to avoid revolutionary design is to avoid potential failure and bankruptcy, that's true. But it may also be that the potential playerbase for some of those games is simply too small to warrant the chance. A game cannot survive on the good vibes of a few devoted players. And there are other games out there that aren't fantasy. Anarchy Online, for example. Planetside. City of Heroes. My point is, just because there are fewer non-fantasy settings out there, doesn't mean developers are going to stop trying to make them.
Going to the FPS analogy, yes Doom, Quake, Call Of Duty etc are all variations on a theme, same as Tekken, Streetfighter, DOA are but that's not a good analogy. Do Capcom only make Streetfighter games or variations on them? No, they also give us Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Megaman.
What the hell? You just went off in a deadend direction on that one. All games are not made by the same developers. Doom, Quake, and Call of Duty were all made by different companies. But they all follow the same core gameplay. Meanwhile, WoW, Asheron's Call, and Everquest were all made by different developers. But they all follow the same core gameplay. And mentioning Capcom makes no sense. Some development companies cast a wide net. Others specialize. MMO developers are prone to specializing in MMOs because of the huge expense in creating and maintaining them. I honestly have no idea where you were going with that.
Do MMO's have versions of all these different genres, from car games, fighter plane games, beat em up style games, sport games? No, all we seem to get on a grand scale are fantasy RPG games and I don't call that evolution, I call that being stuck in a rut
Another brainbuster, you more or less stumped me on what you meant to point out there. You cannot mix and match genres. The very nature of a "genre" is that it is a defineable format. As for themes, we've already mentioned Auto Assault, City of Heroes, and Planetside. Let's not forget Eve: Online, SWG, Star Trek Online, Tabula Rasa, Stargate Worlds, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Silkroad Online, Huxley, Roma Victor. I'm not even trying here, I'm just looking over at the MMORPG.com list. Fantasy is the most prevailent, but that's because it's also the most preferred. RPG players like fantasy settings. Sorry that offends you.
As for there being no hype about WAR, I think many of you must be talking about a different game to me. I never said hype from the studio's but if you think WAR isn't one of the most anticipated MMO's since WoW, then you're wrong and questioning if it can live up to this expectation is a perfectly valid topic for discussion IMO.
As far a hype goes, there's been very little. We recently saw a wave of previews, but those were all from the same press conference. A single event, covered by many sites. But that's all. Compared to the amount of press WoW and Vanguard got during development, WAR has been comparatively ignored. There is plenty of "hype" to be found, but only if you go looking for it from Mythic directly.
Will the game succeed? You're guess is as good as ours. If you wanted to discuss the various gameplay aspects of WAR, we're more than happy to indulge. But you wanted us to spell out why it would suceed. You wanted us to "sell the game" to you. That's from where my hostility stems.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
Further commentary: about as close are you're going to get to the next step in evolution is cross-pollination of gaming, i.e. hybrids.
we've already seen mmo-"flight simulations"... and mmo-"economics" both of which eve and swg:pre-cu fall into (AA also falls into the flight simulation)
Next up:
mmo-tactical groups -- gods and heroes
mmo-fps -- tabula rasa, age of conan <--this will really take off once broadband becomes mainstream for everyone and gamers start migrating to FIOS as lag really won't be an issue.
OMG you totally stole the speach about how MMO's are knockoffs of MUDS which are knock offs of DnD which is a Tolkein knockoff, which was influenced by ancient fairy tales/mythology!
I said that on a 3rd generation debate...or something like that. I really should find the link.. thanks for quoting me!
I do think WAR will end up as the game the PVP crowd flocks to. AoC is too much of a hybrid w/ their action combat system thing to really be a hit with the MMO crowd.
However I do see a massive expansion of meaningful PVP in WorldofWarcraft happening in the next year to try and retain the exact crowd WAR and AoC aim to steal away. If Blizzard can do it in time, and do it well enough, I think it'll convince a lot more PVPer's to stick around.
If Blizz is going to/wants to do it, I can tell you exactly how it should be done! Oh, and hero classes/ siege weapons.
I'm a smart cookie! but they've already implemented most of the "wishing well" ideas I've imagined up, so if they continue to think along the same lines as I do, great things are coming in the future of WoW. Great things.
But I hope WAR steals away 1/2 the Alliance PVPer's on my server so it'll even the odds a bit !