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xauss
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 384
SOE will be printing the CDs and getting the boxes onto shop shelves. This is because they have the infrastructure and capacity to do so at a much lower unit cost than PE could possibly do so otherwise.
PE have full responsibility and autonomy for all server hosting, billing, customer service in addition to complete control over development and design. Since SOE has no other relationship with PE or GnH, it will not feature on their station pass, nor will SOE have any say on design decisions, they only way SOE can fuck things up is to missprint the CDs or the boxes
Like most MMORPGs developed by US / Euro companies there will be subscriptions. although the actual price is yet to be decided, PE have stated that it will be "similar to other titles". so expect it to be ~$15 / month - or there abouts
Comments
www.mmorpgnucleus.com
If you buy this game you are supporting SOE financially. I will not do that.
What kind of influence will SOE have on this game? Hard to say, but it's clear that SOE has a lot of influence with Vanguard when they were just supposed to be publishing it.
Everyone please ask Perpetual to drop SOE aka Platform publishing before it's too late.
First off, let me say, that God's and Hero's does look nice ... no doubt ... of course nicer in some screen shots than in others ...
combat seems cool as well ....
BUT it seems fashionable these days .. whenever SOE takes over a project ... to release a lot of BS about how the developing company cant publish a game ... ect.. ect... could never afford packaging or distribution ect...
well ... how do you people think companies like verant, NCsoft, ect., all started off? its not hard to get loans or investment partners ...
with the bad publicity SOE has gotten as of late its defenitely NOT impossible .. ( with the proper investment backing ) to go head to head in retail store distribution, ...
in fact ...
SOE has had HORRIBLE distribution lately .. the company is fighting head to head with larger outlets .. and you wont be seeing as many SOE boxes on those shelves as you once did ...
i know the video game store by me does not have not ONE SOE MMORPG on their pc games shelf... EXCEPT .. everquest 2 ...( gamestop setakot ny) ... i dont even see vanguard there ...which should be the most popular SOE game currently ...
so all this " they cant release it themselves " stuff is PURE bs in my opinion ...
whether or not SOE has any creative say in the game is another story ... but im SICK and TIRED of hearing the BS excuse of " we need em for publishing" ... the name SOE conteracts any would be benefits ..
I agree with Aquila.
K
suck it up and move on.
Anyone? If it was just 1 time folks then I would stop whining. SWG's current server they run on are on old EQ servers. It shows you where exactly SOE thinks of SWG.
ah i see you are misinformed as to the relationship that i thought was made clear in the OP.
You also fail to realise basic economic realities and good business practice that make it essential that a small software company seek partners to provide manufacturing and distribution support for their product. For a small company to try and do this in-house would be prohibitivly expensive to set up, and provide a huge management headache for the smallest marginal returns per unit.
so whatever the details of the deal between PE and SOE are, no doubt PE chose to deal with them in the best interest of the game and Perpetual and are fully aware of the "I hate SOE wah wah wah!" mindset that persists. This is why they have come out and stated that while yes SOE are publishing it, NO they do not have any influence or control over GnH or PE.
ah i see you are misinformed as to the relationship that i thought was made clear in the OP.
You also fail to realise basic economic realities and good business practice that make it essential that a small software company seek partners to provide manufacturing and distribution support for their product. For a small company to try and do this in-house would be prohibitivly expensive to set up, and provide a huge management headache for the smallest marginal returns per unit.
so whatever the details of the deal between PE and SOE are, no doubt PE chose to deal with them in the best interest of the game and Perpetual and are fully aware of the "I hate SOE wah wah wah!" mindset that persists. This is why they have come out and stated that while yes SOE are publishing it, NO they do not have any influence or control over GnH or PE.
well, as soon as the game is " developed" it falls into SOE's hands .. they are responsible for publishing, distribution, BILLING ( which is what i fear most, and many who have subscribed to SOE games know how underhanded they can be with ripoff billing ) .. and probably the very servers you are to play on ... thats why i say " take over a project"
we look at the less than stellar debut of vanguard ... being rushed out in almost beta form ... thats a good indication SOE .. being the " publisher" forced out an early release to coincide with their all access billing increase ...
now we get into the financial question...
are you trying to tell me .. the ONLY way, ANY, fledgling company in the US can survive is by piggybacking a ride into their targeted market on the backs of an already dominant force?
IF you were in business, you'd understand the U.S. doesnt operate this way, and we have laws to prevent such a reality ...
in fact our socio-economic system .. capitalism, is based on competition...... there are still even in this day and age many ways to promote a fledgling business and create networks with which to propagate and distribute a product ... with good communication skills and demographic presentation, the amount of financial backers and investors one could accumilate in this country are limitless...
the truth is SOE is transforming their division from a game developer ( which they are already horrible at), to a publishing company. john smedly and others have already stated this publicly .. what this means is they will BUY any promising titles they can get their hands on ... filling a developer's monetary needs up front .. and then move on to make profit from the game in the long term ...
so you can be the good forum fanboi and twist and turn reality all you want .. trying to paint the picture of developers with limited capital, who would end up broken with VAPORWARE, unless they sold out to SOE.... BUT, that just isnt true ....
Truth is, perpetual sold out to SOE .. probably took a large sum up front to let SOE handle the game and publish it ... then in turn walked away from the negotiation table, wishing for the best.... afterall .. if all goes downhill and the game ends up being a failure? all they have to do these days in the industry ... is change their company name to a new one .. and use catch phrases when promoting their next title .. like " this time, its done right, our way" ... or .. " WE HAVE A VISION" ...bla bla bla ... and even if that game bombs .. they can do it all over again and fanboi's like you will never call them on bad decisions ...
just like verant-sigil ... and countless other games/developers which SOE engulfed .. and became total crap ... LA -star wars galaxies ...Monolith-the matrix online ... so on and so forth .... sure you can twist terminology to disguise this past history of soe acquisitions, like " SWG was a license from LA" ... or, verant LEFT everquest, or was owned by sony from the start ... again bla bla bla .. but the truth resides in common sense as usual
what's funny is .. this practice of SOE acquiring games ISNT, i repeat ISNT a new one ... most of the games on their all access station pass these days were ACQUIRED after being initially developed by some one else..... and they then fell into the abyss of bad updating, maintennence and post release developing by SOE...
only difference now is SOE isn't trying to pretend like they are a game developer .. after getting bad publicity for developing, they want to just call themselves " publishers" now ...
SOE may be a shark in the market .. but sigil and perpetual had plenty of other options ... SOE is but just a tiny fraction of the MMO industry..
lots of hungry would-be backers out there ..
again you show your ignorance as to the relationship between PE and SOE that was made clear in the OP and even linked for you.
Here it is again
if you are too lazy to follow the link i'll spell it out for you again...
1. GnH and PE havnt sold out to SOE, they have come to an agreement to handle the publishing that PE cannot do themselves
2. PE will host the servers
3. PE will handle all the accounts, billing and customer support
4. since this is not an SOE game, it will NOT feature on their station pass
If you fail to see that it would be non-sensical for a small software developer to try and print and distribute the CDs themselves i certainly cannot be bothered to explain it again. The only question remains as why SOE was chosen as the publisher - and that would be based on the relationship developed between the two companies in question and the details of the contract.
Well, we'll see what transpires in the next few months .. believing SOE will manufacture and distribute discs, only, for competition seems a bit naive ... no matter what they TELL you on their website ...
i find it hard to believe the interest ( on soe's part) in perpetual entertainment isnt greater ... how on earth would perpetual land such a large contract with startrek?..... after all its not that large of a company .. and most of the board members are EX suits from banking firms .. or sell out game studios ... in fact the CEO of perpetual, keene, is known for mergers and acquisitions within the game market .. hmmm . ..... hes negotiated large deals of this nature his whole " career"
as for servers ... Thats the ONE area i wouldn't have minded SOE to control, as much, of course though, I would prefer ANYONE else to SOE.... i dont see perpetual, having the resources currently, to host a server of this magnitude .. although im sure rizzo is a good engineer having experience with ultima online .. i still have the feeling that at launch, the buggyness of this game's servers may brand it negatively with would be subscribers ....
and with so many venues with which to get a game physically published and distributed .. why choose SOE? whom they know will tarnish their fledgling company name? why announce star trek online and gods and heros, the only two titles these guys have worked on, as being published congruently by SOE?
again .. i never claimed SOE had any creative input .. as i state in my first post within this thread :
"whether or not SOE has any creative say in the game is another story ... but im SICK and TIRED of hearing the BS excuse of " we need em for publishing" ... the name SOE conteracts any would be benefits .."
and i stand by this statement .. you've already seen the negative posts since the announcment that perpetual was to let SOE handle star trek and gods and heros ....
gamers in the MMORPG market arent the uninformed zombies of other gaming markets ... when a company is hated .. its hated through and through ... ..
and the only reason i posted in this thread to begin with .. is because id hate to see a promising game like this end up with the negative and DENTRIMENTAL hype that lead to vanguards lackluster and RUSHED release ...
BTW ... again ... with all the bankers on perpetual's management team and in their directors board .. there still no way you can convince me they needed SOE to " publish" this game... as i said before plenty of would-be backers and alternative venues, ..
and again my opposition to SOE ... involves bringing into account, once again, SOE's current horrid track record as of late, in game releases and 0-day sales, as well as lack OF distribuition on their game titles ... their boxes in store shelves are handled much the same way a 9.99$ law and order .. or poker game is ...
btw p.s. scroll back in time to comments made by sigil dev team and fans of the game .. stating vanguard ( only being published by SOE) would never end up on all access station pass ... ( as we all now know it is very much part of the lame pass ) ...
so again ... preconstituted statements made in the pre-release era .. mean nothing really
Yeah I just Hope it's not to late and PE listens because they have a great looking game and I would love to be involved but if it means I have to support Sony in any way I refuse to do it.
There are other great MMOs out there from companies that have worked hard and some that have learned leasons from the past that I would rather support.
ah i see you are misinformed as to the relationship that i thought was made clear in the OP.
You also fail to realise basic economic realities and good business practice that make it essential that a small software company seek partners to provide manufacturing and distribution support for their product. For a small company to try and do this in-house would be prohibitivly expensive to set up, and provide a huge management headache for the smallest marginal returns per unit.
so whatever the details of the deal between PE and SOE are, no doubt PE chose to deal with them in the best interest of the game and Perpetual and are fully aware of the "I hate SOE wah wah wah!" mindset that persists. This is why they have come out and stated that while yes SOE are publishing it, NO they do not have any influence or control over GnH or PE.
well, as soon as the game is " developed" it falls into SOE's hands .. they are responsible for publishing, distribution, BILLING ( which is what i fear most, and many who have subscribed to SOE games know how underhanded they can be with ripoff billing ) .. and probably the very servers you are to play on ... thats why i say " take over a project"
we look at the less than stellar debut of vanguard ... being rushed out in almost beta form ... thats a good indication SOE .. being the " publisher" forced out an early release to coincide with their all access billing increase ...
now we get into the financial question...
are you trying to tell me .. the ONLY way, ANY, fledgling company in the US can survive is by piggybacking a ride into their targeted market on the backs of an already dominant force?
IF you were in business, you'd understand the U.S. doesnt operate this way, and we have laws to prevent such a reality ...
in fact our socio-economic system .. capitalism, is based on competition...... there are still even in this day and age many ways to promote a fledgling business and create networks with which to propagate and distribute a product ... with good communication skills and demographic presentation, the amount of financial backers and investors one could accumilate in this country are limitless...
the truth is SOE is transforming their division from a game developer ( which they are already horrible at), to a publishing company. john smedly and others have already stated this publicly .. what this means is they will BUY any promising titles they can get their hands on ... filling a developer's monetary needs up front .. and then move on to make profit from the game in the long term ...
so you can be the good forum fanboi and twist and turn reality all you want .. trying to paint the picture of developers with limited capital, who would end up broken with VAPORWARE, unless they sold out to SOE.... BUT, that just isnt true ....
Truth is, perpetual sold out to SOE .. probably took a large sum up front to let SOE handle the game and publish it ... then in turn walked away from the negotiation table, wishing for the best.... afterall .. if all goes downhill and the game ends up being a failure? all they have to do these days in the industry ... is change their company name to a new one .. and use catch phrases when promoting their next title .. like " this time, its done right, our way" ... or .. " WE HAVE A VISION" ...bla bla bla ... and even if that game bombs .. they can do it all over again and fanboi's like you will never call them on bad decisions ...
just like verant-sigil ... and countless other games/developers which SOE engulfed .. and became total crap ... LA -star wars galaxies ...Monolith-the matrix online ... so on and so forth .... sure you can twist terminology to disguise this past history of soe acquisitions, like " SWG was a license from LA" ... or, verant LEFT everquest, or was owned by sony from the start ... again bla bla bla .. but the truth resides in common sense as usual
what's funny is .. this practice of SOE acquiring games ISNT, i repeat ISNT a new one ... most of the games on their all access station pass these days were ACQUIRED after being initially developed by some one else..... and they then fell into the abyss of bad updating, maintennence and post release developing by SOE...
only difference now is SOE isn't trying to pretend like they are a game developer .. after getting bad publicity for developing, they want to just call themselves " publishers" now ...
SOE may be a shark in the market .. but sigil and perpetual had plenty of other options ... SOE is but just a tiny fraction of the MMO industry..
lots of hungry would-be backers out there ..
misinformation in such proportions = rolling with laughter
1)SoE has good billing.i and many i know have dealt with them on and off for years without hassle.apart from how easy it is to cancel and resub.there is a live CSR via net(so all those lying about international calls are well lying) that even on us prime time will answer you within 30 mins.How many mmo companies have this???
2)fact that M$ wanted vanguard out by summer last year means nothing to you?hello!SoE threw an extra 6 months lifeline to vanguard.They are not an endless moneypit.Guess only those who work for a company knows how the real world works
3)all games end in failure?again hello real world economics.Fact a game does not have millions of subs does not in anyway make it a failure.If so all mmorpg games but WoW failed.And considering how much money mythic made with DAoC i cannot see why you think games like EQ1 and EQ2 who have more subs then DAoC even in its prime are failures.
4)engulfed?verrant was always a part of SoE(get history straight).LA is still owned by eh LA(doh).SoE only bought MxO as part of marvel licence and hired a few from a dying company that was dying well before SoE even came to them(sorry SoE gave a few jobs to developers who were going to be unemployed.You might not like that but their families are overjoyed )
5)your other statement about small companies and the US andblah blah is not even worth addressing because you proven your lack of real life experience and clearly have not started working yet .so not worth further comment
About publishing , I worked for Sir-Tech Canada base in the 90s. Well when you published something , and attempted to put it on the shelves or even online, there was a fee , normally per box. There was also a shelf life , and fee if the box didnt sell X copies within a set time limit.
The worst your game did , the worst position your game was put, in some cases , behind the counter (at EB at one time). Then you had to buy ad time , Ncsoft US did a horrible job buying Ad time for most of thier games , in fact CoH and CoV were the only directed market games that NCsoft has ever done.
SOE and NCsoft have both licensed publishing rights to each other. NCsoft attempted to market EQ1 in Asia and SOE did the printing of some Lineage 1 disk before Ncsoft US and Lord British was born.
Right the mass marketing on a product, cost millions , I think EoF expansion was something like 6 million. The production of Disk which SOE can do better than most and cheaper, is one field they excell at.
Back in the day, with a game disk producted by Canadian or even some US publisher was costing 2.50 a disk + labelling and shipping.
Remember SOE which is Sony not only has an arm for gaming , and arm for movies , also has a pc arm. So they can cut the cost of publishing down to half a cent for a DVD currently. Most of thier stuff is done in house , at cost cutting measures so they see a bigger profit.
About Vanguard and SWG , swg wasnt making the numbers to be at the threshold of being a profit so they saved it. And they took the bullet for Brad's asshat designed game. I mean what moron builds an engine only 20% of the people can play on?
1. SOE is not doing anything with the game but putting it in boxes.
2. Not many people played SWG or EQ1 or 2, and so i don't really give a damn if those SOE haters don't come over to G&H, there nothing but a bunch of 12 years olds any how
3. You can not boycott SOE..did you know that they even have the rights to every CD company out there to date! And that the main server for Firefox is run by a sony server? Guess that means every one needs to stop using CDs, and stop using the Internet, huh?
4. Did you know sony also had a part in WoWs CDs, not the boxes, but the CDs?
So sorry to bust your buble here mate, but sony is every where, and your not going to be able to boycott them...that is unless you become a wild man (scary)
-phorsoth-
hehe
I worked for SSI in the late 80ies early 90ies :-D Did alot of the ADD stuff then and of course FASA.
I certainly hope you don't represent Perpetual or GnH, because with that attitude, people will have a hard time subscribing to this game whether SOE just does the publishing or not!
_________________________________
JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Gamestop sucks for carrying PC games so stop shopping there. Your lucky the gamestop by you even has EQ2 the one by me doesn't even carry PC games at all.
I thought I quoted someone now this post won't even make sense.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
I worked for SSI in the late 80ies early 90ies :-D Did alot of the ADD stuff then and of course FASA.
Wizardry! That takes me back. Wizardry (Wiz 1) was the very first computer D&Dish game I played - played that even before I played Akalabeth. Great game - a MMORPG based on that world (err, dungeon) would be great.
On the topic at hand - to me there's a big difference between who presses the disks and who is the creative driver. Not sure how I'd feel if SOE was the creative force behind the game, but don't really care who's in charge of shipping the CD to the store...
You know, this is the same sort of nonsense that we all heard when it was announced that SoE would *only* be handling the Subscription and Server operations for Sigil and V:SoH.
Well, we now know what a load of BS that was!
The early, and disasterous, release of V:SoH shows that SoE does NOT just get into loose relationships with subsidiaries. If GaH is now affiliated with SoE, then SoE *Owns* GaH, for all intents and purposes. Any other stated 'reality' is silly and shows a profound lack of understanding of how SoE works.
Sorry, but that's the real truth. I feel sorry for GaH fans.
Yes, that's what most people are concerned about. We can read what the OP posted, we just dont' believe that SOE will stay in the role. We fully expect that one day you'll hear that now SOE will handle the servers....and then the billing etc etc... chipping away at it until we have PE saying... we didn't want to release the game today..but financial considerations made it so.
Too many folks got burned not only on SWG, but on VG, Matrix Online, Planetside etc as well. and they are not all 12 years old... (sigh..so tired of statements like this)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I certainly hope you don't represent Perpetual or GnH, because with that attitude, people will have a hard time subscribing to this game whether SOE just does the publishing or not!
hahaha - PE, SOE, Sigil, Funcom, Blizzard etc, etc. would never hire someone with such a low tolerance for liars, idiots, trolls and the terminally fucking retarded to represent them to the liars, idiots, trolls and the terminally fucking retarded. that would be the kind of gross mismanagement that thankfully PE seem to have avoided so far.
unfortunately, despite being linked the information and having the situation repeatedly explained to him at great length and reasonable tolerance, the poster to whom the reply was to, persisted in falsely stating the situation with regards to... billing, server hosting, ownership of the IP. so was clearly a retaded individual at best, or a trolling, lieing, 'know nothing' little teeny still crying over SWG. My guess is the latter, due to numerous posts on this subject, many of which were 'off topic' to the threads into which they were posted, and is obviously very young since he has no conception of business or industry practice, and was spreading lies most likely due to him still wetting his pants over SWG
Damn SOE for comming in at the 11th hour and stumping up the cash to save VSoH from vapourware status. That was so evil of them, VSoH was much better off going down the tubes and losing millions of investor cash.
i think you need to find out what subsidiary means since u use it incorrectly, and your understanding of business relationships is severly lacking any basis in information or prior knowledge of this or any industry. thus your creditability in knowing *the real truth* is somewhat lacking
of course, in the case of GnH unlike VSoH, SOE will not be handling subsriptions or servers. additionally, SOE have not come to the rescue of a developer unable to deliver a game or manage budgets, who have pissed away all their resources and sent their publisher running for the hills, Sigil have got to take sole responsibility for that one
Damn SOE for comming in at the 11th hour and stumping up the cash to save VSoH from vapourware status. That was so evil of them, VSoH was much better off going down the tubes and losing millions of investor cash.i think you need to find out what subsidiary means since u use it incorrectly, and your understanding of business relationships is severly lacking any basis in information or prior knowledge of this or any industry. thus your creditability in knowing *the real truth* is somewhat lessened
It already did.
Ok you people just don't get it...I will repeat my self once more. Did you know SOE did almost the same thing with WoW, did it hurt them? I don't think so!!!???
So Just so every one is clear on what I'm saying, SOE WILL NEVER GET ONE HAND ON G&H OTHER THAN PUTTING IT ON THE SHELVES!
Its clear, and its a fact. And you can't argue over something that has not happend yet. So all your points are useless, sorry
-Phor-
hehe