I do think WAR will end up as the game the PVP crowd flocks to. AoC is too much of a hybrid w/ their action combat system thing to really be a hit with the MMO crowd. However I do see a massive expansion of meaningful PVP in WorldofWarcraft happening in the next year to try and retain the exact crowd WAR and AoC aim to steal away. If Blizzard can do it in time, and do it well enough, I think it'll convince a lot more PVPer's to stick around. Maby, however I never think WoW will become a state of the art PvP game. What they should do then is to take away the top gear, thus, then they will kill off the PvE part that most players wants.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Especially in a game where gear means less than skill. Why? because nobody likes to feel they where outplayed. Theres always going to be a top team/group and there will always be 20 teams that want to be #1 and beat #1. in games based on gear, you really have no desire to beat #1 your desire when you lose is "we need more gear!!" so you run more instances. Where as when you lose to a team and your outplayed and there is no more charachter advancement you can do, thats when you start to re-evaluate your playstyle and that of those on your team. It burns to get outplayed, and you want redemption after it happens. but when you finally beat them they now feel the same way about you..... it goes back and forth and you have a Ohio state Vs Michigan type of rivalry. This never gets old really
Exactly, one reason I stopped playing WoW was because pvp (battlegrounds or world) became unbalanced (pre-BC) when people farmed an instance for 6 months to get uber gear that you barely dent. I am looking forward to WAR because it looks as if they are going to reward pvp/RvR differently and I am definitely wanting that.
First, this is an excellent thread so far. Second, Areel will find a lot of backers -- very well put, couldn't have said it better on ALL points. Third, why even ask the question "Is WAR a World Beater"? Does it really matter so long as you're enjoying the game? Fourth and finally, what is necessarily wrong with "more of the same"? So, what if LotRO, AoC and War are knockoffs of WoW (which was a knock off of EQ and DAoC....which were knockoffs of MUDs.... which were a knock off of DnD... which was a knock off of Tolkein... which was a knockoff of fairy tales and myths). If people enjoy the system but are given new adventures to play in, they'll go to it (and hopefully enjoy themselves.) It's like saying "the Forgotten Realms books stole from Tolkein" and asking "will the Inheritance Trilogy (Eragon, Eldest and whatever it will be named) save the fantasy literature market?" Some people like the genre and each new entry in the market will put its own twist on it, whether it's just storyline or maybe an aspect of the system (like diplomacy, or crafting, fps combat or player submitted content.) The point is, if you're not enjoying it, try something else then or....write/make your own game (it's quite possible with the Neverwinter Nights Aurora toolset.)
OMG you totally stole the speach about how MMO's are knockoffs of MUDS which are knock offs of DnD which is a Tolkein knockoff, which was influenced by ancient fairy tales/mythology!
Not for nothing, but I don't appreciate that accusation. Had I quoted you, I would have cited you. The fact is, this isn't an original, patented idea and many people besides you and I have come to this conclusion already because we have knowledge of gaming history and the ability to think critically.
First, this is an excellent thread so far. Second, Areel will find a lot of backers -- very well put, couldn't have said it better on ALL points. Third, why even ask the question "Is WAR a World Beater"? Does it really matter so long as you're enjoying the game? Fourth and finally, what is necessarily wrong with "more of the same"? So, what if LotRO, AoC and War are knockoffs of WoW (which was a knock off of EQ and DAoC....which were knockoffs of MUDs.... which were a knock off of DnD... which was a knock off of Tolkein... which was a knockoff of fairy tales and myths). If people enjoy the system but are given new adventures to play in, they'll go to it (and hopefully enjoy themselves.) It's like saying "the Forgotten Realms books stole from Tolkein" and asking "will the Inheritance Trilogy (Eragon, Eldest and whatever it will be named) save the fantasy literature market?" Some people like the genre and each new entry in the market will put its own twist on it, whether it's just storyline or maybe an aspect of the system (like diplomacy, or crafting, fps combat or player submitted content.) The point is, if you're not enjoying it, try something else then or....write/make your own game (it's quite possible with the Neverwinter Nights Aurora toolset.)
OMG you totally stole the speach about how MMO's are knockoffs of MUDS which are knock offs of DnD which is a Tolkein knockoff, which was influenced by ancient fairy tales/mythology!
I said that on a 3rd generation debate...or something like that. I really should find the link.. thanks for quoting me!
I do think WAR will end up as the game the PVP crowd flocks to. AoC is too much of a hybrid w/ their action combat system thing to really be a hit with the MMO crowd.
However I do see a massive expansion of meaningful PVP in WorldofWarcraft happening in the next year to try and retain the exact crowd WAR and AoC aim to steal away. If Blizzard can do it in time, and do it well enough, I think it'll convince a lot more PVPer's to stick around.
If Blizz is going to/wants to do it, I can tell you exactly how it should be done! Oh, and hero classes/ siege weapons. I'm a smart cookie! but they've already implemented most of the "wishing well" ideas I've imagined up, so if they continue to think along the same lines as I do, great things are coming in the future of WoW. Great things.
But I hope WAR steals away 1/2 the Alliance PVPer's on my server so it'll even the odds a bit !
I don't know how long you have played WoW, but even with all of the "changes" they have implemented through patches and the expansion, fact of the matter is it's still the same game. I've played it for a long time (meaning since release, with a few breaks here and there), and quite honestly am ready for something new. I believe that many WoW players feel this way, and I'm guessing players from many other games feel this way as well (although I don't play anything else right now, so it's simply an educated guess).
I believe that many of these people growing bored with their current games will initially check WAR out. If it delivers what they have been talking about and showing us, many of them will probably end up staying. Once they know they're staying put, they will tell their friends to come check it out. This is how it will succeed imo.
Even if WoW comes out with an expansion containing "meaningful PvP", the game still won't be different. If you don't raid 5 days per week, you will get smoked by someone who does every time. Those are the mechanics of the game. If WoW changes this current formula, they will upset many of their PvE oriented subscribers, which will cause them to grow bored with the game. Although, it may make the game much better for you and those who think the same way and enjoy similar things.
Basically, no game will ever have everything for everyone. They just don't work that way. It's damn near impossible to appeal to the PvP and PvE market in a single game, while balancing it between the two. One of them is going to get precedence. Games appeal to niche markets. When a game is released, the designers and publisher hope that "niche" market is a huge one.
world beater .... WOW is for kiddies ... real men will be playing WAR
I really doubt that WAR will beat WoW, and it has nothing to do with my lack of faith in how good WAR will be. I simply do not see a game with 8.5M players worldwide, based on one of the most well-known and successful IPs there is, 'losing' to WAR any time soon.
Especially not for your reason, as the 'kiddies' are a large and important part of the subscription base for almost any MMOG, perhaps espcially WoW. This is not a knock against its player, but rather I am suggesting that the theme, the graphics, the quick advancement, and the ability to run it on a machine from 1998 all make for a very child-friendly game, as well as an adult-friendly game, too.
What will hold WAR back a bit is its IP (honestly, it is not hugely well known outside of the world of geeks), its greater system requirements (they will still be modest, but not nearly as modest as WoW's), and perhaps its large focus on PvP/RvR. I am not sure the average player is too nuts about PvP, especially if they have done it in previous games where it has often been horribly unbalanced.
However, I am confident WAR will be a large success and steal away a noticeable portion of WoW players. In fact, I am quite confident WAR will reach 1M players worldwide in no more than 18 months, since EA Mythic seems to be doing everything right to facilitate a large player base (look at Vanguard as an example of what to do wrong).
As someone said earlier, a game does not need to beat WoW to be a success. Hell, a AAA title is a success if it gets 300K+ subscriptions, and smaller games can be a success with much less.
WaR is a hypefest. By the time it is released people will be so sick of seeing drarves with bad scottish acents and gnomes with lil tiny voices they will want to throw up. Oh and I am personaly sick of naked dancing begging elves.
I will be buying stock in funcom before THEY take over the world with Conan.
WaR is a hypefest. By the time it is released people will be so sick of seeing drarves with bad scottish acents and gnomes with lil tiny voices they will want to throw up. Oh and I am personaly sick of naked dancing begging elves.
I will be buying stock in funcom before THEY take over the world with Conan.
Cal
If people are tired of the fantasy theme it's because there has been so many medoicre games served to them.
You will not be able to dance in WAR. Remember, this isn't what you think it is, WoW.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
WaR is a hypefest. By the time it is released people will be so sick of seeing drarves with bad scottish acents and gnomes with lil tiny voices they will want to throw up. Oh and I am personaly sick of naked dancing begging elves.
I will be buying stock in funcom before THEY take over the world with Conan.
Cal
AoC will never dominate the market due to an IP/theme/graphics that will not appeal in Asia and system requirements that are far too high for a mainstream game.
I will be shocked if it breaks 500K concurrent subscriptions, and I am guessing it will hold steady with substantially less. It will probably beat Vanguard, at least.
Then again, a lot hinges also on this new combat system, and if that fails horribly then the game probably will, too. If it is simply amazing, then maybe it will do quite well, but it will never do as well as WoW or WAR.
On a personal note, AoC does not interest me at all, though I realize many are foaming at the mouth for it.
WaR is a hypefest. By the time it is released people will be so sick of seeing drarves with bad scottish acents and gnomes with lil tiny voices they will want to throw up. Oh and I am personaly sick of naked dancing begging elves.
I will be buying stock in funcom before THEY take over the world with Conan.
Cal
Age of Conan will draw some early interest with its combat system, but I think many PC gamers aer going to find the game suffering from a severe case of Console-itis. Sure, It'll be a good game for Xbox users, who don't have any other options. But PC gamers will be able to find other MMOs with more depth.
Basically, I don't trust multiplatform games. Oblivion, FFXI. I always thought those two games, while good, could have been better if they had been PC-only.
Seriously. It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
I agree. I honestly don't give a damn what other have to say regarding wow compared to other games. Wow is dull, boring and simply a kids game.(Yes yes, I flamed your beloved game. My apologies). If for once another game has the real attention of true hard gamers, why not let them be and go back to whatever it was you were doing in the first place? I'm exicted about Warhammer online as are quite a few other people.
Comments
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
OMG you totally stole the speach about how MMO's are knockoffs of MUDS which are knock offs of DnD which is a Tolkein knockoff, which was influenced by ancient fairy tales/mythology!
Not for nothing, but I don't appreciate that accusation. Had I quoted you, I would have cited you. The fact is, this isn't an original, patented idea and many people besides you and I have come to this conclusion already because we have knowledge of gaming history and the ability to think critically.
OMG you totally stole the speach about how MMO's are knockoffs of MUDS which are knock offs of DnD which is a Tolkein knockoff, which was influenced by ancient fairy tales/mythology!
I said that on a 3rd generation debate...or something like that. I really should find the link.. thanks for quoting me!
I do think WAR will end up as the game the PVP crowd flocks to. AoC is too much of a hybrid w/ their action combat system thing to really be a hit with the MMO crowd.
However I do see a massive expansion of meaningful PVP in WorldofWarcraft happening in the next year to try and retain the exact crowd WAR and AoC aim to steal away. If Blizzard can do it in time, and do it well enough, I think it'll convince a lot more PVPer's to stick around.
If Blizz is going to/wants to do it, I can tell you exactly how it should be done! Oh, and hero classes/ siege weapons.
I'm a smart cookie! but they've already implemented most of the "wishing well" ideas I've imagined up, so if they continue to think along the same lines as I do, great things are coming in the future of WoW. Great things.
But I hope WAR steals away 1/2 the Alliance PVPer's on my server so it'll even the odds a bit !
I don't know how long you have played WoW, but even with all of the "changes" they have implemented through patches and the expansion, fact of the matter is it's still the same game. I've played it for a long time (meaning since release, with a few breaks here and there), and quite honestly am ready for something new. I believe that many WoW players feel this way, and I'm guessing players from many other games feel this way as well (although I don't play anything else right now, so it's simply an educated guess).
I believe that many of these people growing bored with their current games will initially check WAR out. If it delivers what they have been talking about and showing us, many of them will probably end up staying. Once they know they're staying put, they will tell their friends to come check it out. This is how it will succeed imo.
Even if WoW comes out with an expansion containing "meaningful PvP", the game still won't be different. If you don't raid 5 days per week, you will get smoked by someone who does every time. Those are the mechanics of the game. If WoW changes this current formula, they will upset many of their PvE oriented subscribers, which will cause them to grow bored with the game. Although, it may make the game much better for you and those who think the same way and enjoy similar things.
Basically, no game will ever have everything for everyone. They just don't work that way. It's damn near impossible to appeal to the PvP and PvE market in a single game, while balancing it between the two. One of them is going to get precedence. Games appeal to niche markets. When a game is released, the designers and publisher hope that "niche" market is a huge one.
world beater ....
WOW is for kiddies ... real men will be playing WAR
Especially not for your reason, as the 'kiddies' are a large and important part of the subscription base for almost any MMOG, perhaps espcially WoW. This is not a knock against its player, but rather I am suggesting that the theme, the graphics, the quick advancement, and the ability to run it on a machine from 1998 all make for a very child-friendly game, as well as an adult-friendly game, too.
What will hold WAR back a bit is its IP (honestly, it is not hugely well known outside of the world of geeks), its greater system requirements (they will still be modest, but not nearly as modest as WoW's), and perhaps its large focus on PvP/RvR. I am not sure the average player is too nuts about PvP, especially if they have done it in previous games where it has often been horribly unbalanced.
However, I am confident WAR will be a large success and steal away a noticeable portion of WoW players. In fact, I am quite confident WAR will reach 1M players worldwide in no more than 18 months, since EA Mythic seems to be doing everything right to facilitate a large player base (look at Vanguard as an example of what to do wrong).
As someone said earlier, a game does not need to beat WoW to be a success. Hell, a AAA title is a success if it gets 300K+ subscriptions, and smaller games can be a success with much less.
I will be buying stock in funcom before THEY take over the world with Conan.
Cal
You will not be able to dance in WAR. Remember, this isn't what you think it is, WoW.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I will be shocked if it breaks 500K concurrent subscriptions, and I am guessing it will hold steady with substantially less. It will probably beat Vanguard, at least.
Then again, a lot hinges also on this new combat system, and if that fails horribly then the game probably will, too. If it is simply amazing, then maybe it will do quite well, but it will never do as well as WoW or WAR.
On a personal note, AoC does not interest me at all, though I realize many are foaming at the mouth for it.
Age of Conan will draw some early interest with its combat system, but I think many PC gamers aer going to find the game suffering from a severe case of Console-itis. Sure, It'll be a good game for Xbox users, who don't have any other options. But PC gamers will be able to find other MMOs with more depth.
Basically, I don't trust multiplatform games. Oblivion, FFXI. I always thought those two games, while good, could have been better if they had been PC-only.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
Why can't the game just be a game regardless of what sales are ranked against other games?
Can't it just be a fun game in the warhammer universe with no strings attached?