Parts of this community have let themselves be played to an extent that's nothing short of pathetic.
It's sad to see this idiocy continue. After being an extremely active forum poster on teh eve-o forums for three years I can say I don't even regret that we've decided to stay off of them for the time being. With this rampant retardation all over the place it's simply not worth contributing to them anymore.
Let me say one thing. If any of you think this will make BoB quit, that you can destroy us or break us up, that somehow through your bandwagoning and whining you will stop us from exacting our revenge on every single entity involved in this, then you're in for a surprise.
Parts of this community have let themselves be played to an extent that's nothing short of pathetic. It's sad to see this idiocy continue. After being an extremely active forum poster on teh eve-o forums for three years I can say I don't even regret that we've decided to stay off of them for the time being. With this rampant retardation all over the place it's simply not worth contributing to them anymore. Let me say one thing. If any of you think this will make BoB quit, that you can destroy us or break us up, that somehow through your bandwagoning and whining you will stop us from exacting our revenge on every single entity involved in this, then you're in for a surprise.
There's indeed a lot of negativity and hatred on eve-o atm. And I think everyone has noticed the lack of BoB posts there. But I'm not sure the blame for this overreaction can be solely put on the shoulders of the bandwagoners. You look stunned by the reaction of the player base to the latest scandal and the war in general, but really, how surprised should you be? It's the same community that was told nearly every day by a large number of your members how they (the community) suck at Eve, how they are whining all the time, what a bunch of bitter losers they are and many many things with the same meaning. What kind of reaction could you really expect? Ppl were crying for months that BoB cheat and that devs help BoB. All those claims were refuted by: "don't be bitter, loser" argument. And voilla there was a dev in BoB and turns out that the dev cheated. If we make a little mental excersise and think how the community would react if BoB would achieve the victories without:
1) killing both Titans offline - yes, the titans probably wouldn't be killed, but so what? That's a video game, you don't have to use every possible little trick in order to win there.
2) placing spies at directors level in all major alliances in Eve (may be exl. Goons and RA due to their special recruitment policy)
3) mastering a dirt-smearing PR campaign on forums against the enemy alliances, trying to break their morale not in game, but out of game, and picturing their leaders as incompetent clowns.
4) singing and shouting obscenities on enemy TS, disrupting fleet operations
5) flooding eve-o on daily basis with posts, the only purpose of which was to show to everyone how uber you are and how lowly and pathetic are everyone else, compared to you.
I don't think BoB would achieve less without all those things I've mentioned above. But surely, BoB wouldn't be hated nearly by everyone in Eve and I very much doubt that D2, Goons and RA would work together for only one goal - to kill BoB.
Parts of this community have let themselves be played to an extent that's nothing short of pathetic. It's sad to see this idiocy continue. After being an extremely active forum poster on teh eve-o forums for three years I can say I don't even regret that we've decided to stay off of them for the time being. With this rampant retardation all over the place it's simply not worth contributing to them anymore. Let me say one thing. If any of you think this will make BoB quit, that you can destroy us or break us up, that somehow through your bandwagoning and whining you will stop us from exacting our revenge on every single entity involved in this, then you're in for a surprise.
Oh jeez. Typical Bob response. Hey, dude - I know this is hard to believe but this has nothing to do with you. Most of us don't give a damn about whether you collapse, prosper, or whack off to pictures of your Avatar. I know that's hard to grasp, but I promise you its true.
This is about CCP integrity, whether CCP cheat through BOB, D2, LV, RA, GOON, MC, AAA, etc... It's about hoping they create a corporate culture where cheating is less then acceptable, it is deplorable, it is unthinkable, it is unimaginable.
So get your friends over in the bug hunter division to give you some other exploits you can use to circumvent game mechanics. The only people you are impressing are yourselves. I trust that is all the fulfillment you need.
Sheesh.. this post came off as a little bitter... so let me just clarify for the record I have a lot of friends in Bob, and most of them are good guys looking for a good fight. It's unfortunate that the vocal minority make the rest of them look like asshats.
Parts of this community have let themselves be played to an extent that's nothing short of pathetic. It's sad to see this idiocy continue. After being an extremely active forum poster on teh eve-o forums for three years I can say I don't even regret that we've decided to stay off of them for the time being. With this rampant retardation all over the place it's simply not worth contributing to them anymore. Let me say one thing. If any of you think this will make BoB quit, that you can destroy us or break us up, that somehow through your bandwagoning and whining you will stop us from exacting our revenge on every single entity involved in this, then you're in for a surprise.
I am shivering in my pants for your revenge, alot.
I apologize for the earlier overly harsh post on this page.
I didnt intend to threaten anyone. I'm, just saying that even although the current feeling amongst the more rabid of our many enemies may be that BoB will be destroyed, they will be severely dissapointed when they notice how one year from now we're still going about our business ingame as we always have.
So far, and that shocked me as much as anyone else, one whole cheating dev was caught in Eve. And, yes, he was in BoB.
I and many others in BoB have cursed him for his stupidity and for how it has turned people that used to be normal and even-minded players into desillusioned (ex-)players. I don't care about the effect it has had on those that already had an anti-BoB agenda and simply use this to further it. I only feel sorry for the fact that this incident is being used to paint a picture of rampant abuse of game mechanics, and then especially aimed at both BoB and LV.
Enslaver turned GM in january. Before that he knew nothing anyone else did not or could not have. After it he played no more role in Eve as a player. There is no scandal, just malignant slander of CCP.
The two titans we killed may have been killed via metagaming. But, even although I agree the metagaming in Eve might have developed into something that maybe we would have been better off without, it has become part of the gameplay for every major group of players out there, and not just because of our succesfull setting of the example either. The goons metagame, D2 metagames, ASACN metagamed, RA metagames, CA, everyone. And not to any lesser extent then we do, they're just not as open about it as we are (goons excepted).
Forum wars are mild metagaming. Nothing more. None of us take them personally unless RL is dragged into it, and most often not even then. I do not and never have attacked someone's RL character on the public forums. I attack someones actions, or his words. But I attack them as part of the propaganda campaigns we wage, and those we have never denied for what they were either.
So, in conclusion, while I agree that things have gone too far in Eve. I still don't agree that forum behaviour (aside from the rampant cheating accusations and RL slandering going on these days) has gone beyond acceptable boundaries. I still don't think infiltration via social engtineering is unacceptable. I still see it as part of Eve's developed gameplay.
I am undecided currently on how I view metagaming issues like how we killed the second titan (i dont and never will regret how we killed the first). And I am undecided on other metagaming issues like some of the tools used by the goons ingame.
I dissaprove strongly of any form of cheating in the conventional sense, altho for example the use of cynonets is possibly something CCP should look at for turnign into game mechanics (all major alliance use them and have for at least a year, including ASCN btw). Besides cynonets however there is no form of eula breaking I could condone (that I know off). More serious cheating (as in ebaying, duping, abusing gm/dev powers etc) is not allowable in my book nor in that of BoB. We don't engage in it, we never have, and never will as an alliance.
We will also never care about your feelings or belongings as a character unless it suits us. That's the promise we made two years ago, and that's how we'll aways remain.
Kug is a criminal. He served 18 months in prison for hacking in the US. Also commiting out of game crimes to gain an ingame advantage is against the CCP EULA. As is hacking peoples eve accounts. Same with perposly trying to find dev player account. He admitted to all that publically and got banned for it. All the devs who cheated in relation to t20 were fired. Enslaver wasnt as he did nothing wrong. Not sure what more you want.
Devs were fired? When? Please post a link to this info. ( as I think this isn't true...)
CCP axed another of its developers due to misconduct - very very quietly ... and had to fess up because it was published on an icelandic website.
(the following is a collection of quotes and requotes from the link above which ends in an answer by the CCP community manager). These incidents are different from the "T20 incident". Have fun Erillion
Three other employees of CCP have been caught violating the company’s rules by playing EveOnline and were reprimanded or lost their jobs as a consequence.
While I am not sure about one of the events, I would guess two of the incidents mentioned involved the GM that was fired last summer for abusing his authority and the volunteer who was removed from ISD and perma banned for breaking the rules the summer before that, both of which were publically announced. Since the article does not go into specifics about the instances, it is impossible to take more than an educated guess.
Not really bothered about this tbh. All evidence shows that The Enslaver stepped down from active and public leadership roles in LV when he got his job at CCP.
The simple fact is CCP has inspired a atmosphere of corruption, the dev's have cheated in the past because they knew there would be little or no comeback, reports of violations in the first two years of this game (which is when I initially played) were routinely laughed at and dismissed, and there were one or two instances, where BLATENT cheating was ADMITTED by those involved and dismissed.
Now CCP lies in a bed of it's own making, every little thing they do is being scrutinised because they FAILED to deal with previous issues in any responsible manner. t20 was punished..... his gross misconduct resulted in his character being deleted, wow... some hardship there. His friends were allowed to reap the rewards of corruption, they still have the benefit of the funds and information he provided. They still reap the rewards of his misconduct. ONE GM has been dismissed for misconduct, and only then AFTER CCP banned the player who complained about the cheating and the COMMUNITY rose up and objected, not because CCP wanted to be honest, because CCP WAS FORCED to be honest.
Eve is probably the best MMORPG game on the market, I returned to it because it is just that, it has long term appeal and a commitment from it's players that is remarkable this is not reflected in the behaviour of it's makers.
unfortunately the simple fact is every single every time a Dev is exposed they have been influential in a major alliance that has grown to dominate this game (even if you are not actively playing an account you can still take an active role in the corp, providing information and guidance to it's members).
People are going to examine Enslavers actions because they expect to find dirt, because they expect CCP to lie about things, because they expect Dev's and GM's to misbehave and until CCP start to make their system more transparent these things will continue to happen.
And for all the whining that Dev's need to play these roles to experience the game.... well, a large percentage of the players in game are in empire, maybe CCP should start by releasing figures on how many of it' s Dev's are active 0.0 alliances and how many are in Empire corps, then we will see how concerned they are with this game, how many are working the market for their corps, hauling cargo and mining scord.
It's time for CCP to start growing up, it's time for it's staff to start demonstrating that they don't just care about the game but about the people who play it and pay THEM some respect. The hacker may be a moron, Enslaver may be innocent and honest, but it won't matter a damn because of the way CCP have behaved in the past and continue to behave now.
Hello Rob_B. I used to be in ATUK. After the t20 scandal broke I remember a couple of incidents on atuk ts. Namely, the appearance of t20 on our ts and script, chow and stan going off for a nice cosy chat with him during the FA war (just before shinra upped and left atuk in fountain). Do I have proof? Nope, just my memories. /me feels dirty
Now judging by your righteous indignation about the effect this affair has ahd on bob, you are either trying to decieve us of knowing complicity of bob et al in misconduct or are unaware of it. In the first case, well not entirely unexpected nes pas? In the second case, open your eyes.
Nice post, Trianon. You summed up in better words than I ever could the exact crux of the problem.
Rod_B - It's nice to see some humility from a member of BoB, but please try to believe us when we say that, for many, many people upset about this situation, BoB's involvement is purely incidental. I find it supremely ironic, of course, that t20's misdeeds were used to support (in however minor a fashion) your alliance - the alliance whose forum warriors have always been among the first to scream "tinfoil hattery!" any time an allegation of CCP involvement in their affairs was made. Please believe us, though, when we say that we'd be every bit as outraged if t20 had been cheating on behalf of D2, or ASCN, or LV, or RA, AAA, Goons, Morsus Mihi, or whoever else, and CCP had responded in this fashion.
The simple fact is CCP has inspired a atmosphere of corruption, the dev's have cheated in the past because they knew there would be little or no comeback, reports of violations in the first two years of this game (which is when I initially played) were routinely laughed at and dismissed, and there were one or two instances, where BLATENT cheating was ADMITTED by those involved and dismissed.
Now CCP lies in a bed of it's own making, every little thing they do is being scrutinised because they FAILED to deal with previous issues in any responsible manner. t20 was punished..... his gross misconduct resulted in his character being deleted, wow... some hardship there. His friends were allowed to reap the rewards of corruption, they still have the benefit of the funds and information he provided. They still reap the rewards of his misconduct. ONE GM has been dismissed for misconduct, and only then AFTER CCP banned the player who complained about the cheating and the COMMUNITY rose up and objected, not because CCP wanted to be honest, because CCP WAS FORCED to be honest.
Eve is probably the best MMORPG game on the market, I returned to it because it is just that, it has long term appeal and a commitment from it's players that is remarkable this is not reflected in the behaviour of it's makers.
unfortunately the simple fact is every single every time a Dev is exposed they have been influential in a major alliance that has grown to dominate this game (even if you are not actively playing an account you can still take an active role in the corp, providing information and guidance to it's members).
People are going to examine Enslavers actions because they expect to find dirt, because they expect CCP to lie about things, because they expect Dev's and GM's to misbehave and until CCP start to make their system more transparent these things will continue to happen.
And for all the whining that Dev's need to play these roles to experience the game.... well, a large percentage of the players in game are in empire, maybe CCP should start by releasing figures on how many of it' s Dev's are active 0.0 alliances and how many are in Empire corps, then we will see how concerned they are with this game, how many are working the market for their corps, hauling cargo and mining scord.
It's time for CCP to start growing up, it's time for it's staff to start demonstrating that they don't just care about the game but about the people who play it and pay THEM some respect. The hacker may be a moron, Enslaver may be innocent and honest, but it won't matter a damn because of the way CCP have behaved in the past and continue to behave now.
Top notch post!
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
Originally posted by Trianon The simple fact is CCP has inspired a atmosphere of corruption, the dev's have cheated in the past because they knew there would be little or no comeback, reports of violations in the first two years of this game (which is when I initially played) were routinely laughed at and dismissed, and there were one or two instances, where BLATENT cheating was ADMITTED by those involved and dismissed.
List specific details instead of implying "oooh, there's been cheating constantly by the entire company". Post some details of when CCP laughed routinely at allegations of misconduct and the instances you claim where cheating was dismissed. Obviously since this is a routine and constant problem with the company that shouldn't take you long at all to find, right?
Originally posted by Trianon t20 was punished..... his gross misconduct resulted in his character being deleted, wow... some hardship there. His friends were allowed to reap the rewards of corruption, they still have the benefit of the funds and information he provided. They still reap the rewards of his misconduct.
Actually deleting a 3 year old character is a bit of a "wow" punishment. Why don't you step up and delete your own characters if having that happen isn't a big deal at all? Yeah, didn't think you would.
BoB's ISK making from the BPOs being left for those months wouldn't have an impact on their ability to play the game, certainly not to the extent that the tinfoil crowd are claiming. However jealous players would like to think that's why BoB's stomping all over them, so they try to make that connection that a few cheap missiles and cheap Sabre's have turned the tide for BoB against the whole server. I think not.
Yes CCP handled the t20 issue badly. The BPOs should have been destroyed and t20 should have been a man enough to have admitted he did that long ago, but whatever, it's time to move on from this now. He's been punished enough already.
Originally posted by Trianon ONE GM has been dismissed for misconduct, and only then AFTER CCP banned the player who complained about the cheating and the COMMUNITY rose up and objected, not because CCP wanted to be honest, because CCP WAS FORCED to be honest.
One GM has been dismissed for misconduct, but not due to anything Knuthead has done. You're trying to claim that the hacker had something to do with it, which is wrong. A GM from the Shanghai office was fired months ago for spawning items for his player. At the time other player accounts were temp banned to preserve the evidence while CCP looked into it, but everything of your above statement past "dismissed for misconduct" is totally out of context. Please don't use hacker boy and unrelated past events to try to make your exaggerations sound better. Since K has turned up no GM has been found guilty of anything, no matter what vile lies him and his ignorant masses been spewing to try to make it true.
Originally posted by Trianon unfortunately the simple fact is every single every time a Dev is exposed they have been influential in a major alliance that has grown to dominate this game (even if you are not actively playing an account you can still take an active role in the corp, providing information and guidance to it's members).
"every single time a Dev is exposed" oh come on! To date over 5 years there's been 2-3 Devs that have cheated, one lost their job the other was punished, maybe not to your liking but still punished. One GM was caught and fired. One ISD member was caught and dismissed and banned from the game. There's no "every single time" happening here, stop trying to make it seem like there is.
You going on to say the "even if you're not actively playing... you can still take an active role" is another great motto of the tinfoil brigade. Stop it! Just because someone "could" cheat doesn't mean they "will" cheat. You cannot PROVE that someone is cheating just because you think they might be able to. You also cannot take the default stance that someone would always cheat because they could possibly be able to. It's people believing that that's causing so many problems here. Sadly that kind of ignorance is impossible to do away with since the people that believe that will believe anything and listen to nothing.
Originally posted by Trianon People are going to examine Enslavers actions because they expect to find dirt, because they expect CCP to lie about things, because they expect Dev's and GM's to misbehave and until CCP start to make their system more transparent these things will continue to happen.
It's not CCPs fault that most people are incapable of independent or coherent thought and simply believe every exaggeration and outright lie and misdirection spammed at them by anyone at all. If people are too ignorant to believe that with a few exceptions CCP is an honest company and is doing the best they can for the game they should just leave instead of trying to poison the community and the game because they can only believe in the worst. This is really gone far enough and posts like yours, which sound like they ring true but are just more misleading spam, aren't helping at all.
The simple fact is CCP has inspired a atmosphere of corruption, the dev's have cheated in the past because they knew there would be little or no comeback, reports of violations in the first two years of this game (which is when I initially played) were routinely laughed at and dismissed, and there were one or two instances, where BLATENT cheating was ADMITTED by those involved and dismissed.
List specific details instead of implying "oooh, there's been cheating constantly by the entire company". Post some details of when CCP laughed routinely at allegations of misconduct and the instances you claim where cheating was dismissed. Obviously since this is a routine and constant problem with the company that shouldn't take you long at all to find, right?
You will not find the CCP official version of anything because they deleted and shredded it.... Read the forums from many other sites for info related to why people do not trust ccp still.
Originally posted by Trianon
t20 was punished..... his gross misconduct resulted in his character being deleted, wow... some hardship there. His friends were allowed to reap the rewards of corruption, they still have the benefit of the funds and information he provided. They still reap the rewards of his misconduct.
Actually deleting a 3 year old character is a bit of a "wow" punishment. Why don't you step up and delete your own characters if having that happen isn't a big deal at all? Yeah, didn't think you would.
BoB's ISK making from the BPOs being left for those months wouldn't have an impact on their ability to play the game, certainly not to the extent that the tinfoil crowd are claiming. However jealous players would like to think that's why BoB's stomping all over them, so they try to make that connection that a few cheap missiles and cheap Sabre's have turned the tide for BoB against the whole server. I think not.
Yes CCP handled the t20 issue badly. The BPOs should have been destroyed and t20 should have been a man enough to have admitted he did that long ago, but whatever, it's time to move on from this now. He's been punished enough already.
Employee looses his toon, whaaaaaaaa, employee should not have cheated. So your trolling comment as to why anyone else with a 3 year old toon would delete is foolish...
Isk nor BPO is the problem, it is lies, coverups, censorhappy propaganda goons that caused the major problem in ccp, the cheating was just the tip of the iceberg...i.e...trust lost is the problem
T20 should have been fired (legaly can still be fired), the rules were in place, the legal aspects covered by the prescribed punishment that the rules stated.
Originally posted by Trianon
ONE GM has been dismissed for misconduct, and only then AFTER CCP banned the player who complained about the cheating and the COMMUNITY rose up and objected, not because CCP wanted to be honest, because CCP WAS FORCED to be honest.
One GM has been dismissed for misconduct, but not due to anything Knuthead has done. You're trying to claim that the hacker had something to do with it, which is wrong. A GM from the Shanghai office was fired months ago for spawning items for his player. At the time other player accounts were temp banned to preserve the evidence while CCP looked into it, but everything of your above statement past "dismissed for misconduct" is totally out of context. Please don't use hacker boy and unrelated past events to try to make your exaggerations sound better. Since K has turned up no GM has been found guilty of anything, no matter what vile lies him and his ignorant masses been spewing to try to make it true.
Welll duh, K doing anything is not the reason to fire anyone....the fact that a employee cheated and violated other rules is reason to fire an employee...
None of the past is "unrelated", it shows a pattern of ccp's to dismiss conduct breaches based on favoritism.
Originally posted by Trianon
unfortunately the simple fact is every single every time a Dev is exposed they have been influential in a major alliance that has grown to dominate this game (even if you are not actively playing an account you can still take an active role in the corp, providing information and guidance to it's members).
"every single time a Dev is exposed" oh come on! To date over 5 years there's been 2-3 Devs that have cheated, one lost their job the other was punished, maybe not to your liking but still punished. One GM was caught and fired. One ISD member was caught and dismissed and banned from the game. There's no "every single time" happening here, stop trying to make it seem like there is.
You going on to say the "even if you're not actively playing... you can still take an active role" is another great motto of the tinfoil brigade. Stop it! Just because someone "could" cheat doesn't mean they "will" cheat. You cannot PROVE that someone is cheating just because you think they might be able to. You also cannot take the default stance that someone would always cheat because they could possibly be able to. It's people believing that that's causing so many problems here. Sadly that kind of ignorance is impossible to do away with since the people that believe that will believe anything and listen to nothing.
Rules were/are in place that cover the cheating/misconduct issues, but ccp has this favoritism clause...they also have this "trust" thing missing concerning the playerbase...
Originally posted by Trianon
People are going to examine Enslavers actions because they expect to find dirt, because they expect CCP to lie about things, because they expect Dev's and GM's to misbehave and until CCP start to make their system more transparent these things will continue to happen.
It's not CCPs fault that most people are incapable of independent or coherent thought and simply believe every exaggeration and outright lie and misdirection spammed at them by anyone at all. If people are too ignorant to believe that with a few exceptions CCP is an honest company and is doing the best they can for the game they should just leave instead of trying to poison the community and the game because they can only believe in the worst. This is really gone far enough and posts like yours, which sound like they ring true but are just more misleading spam, aren't helping at all.
...like your misdirection attempt here? detract from the misdeeds with comments that are intended to isolate each thing, so as to detract from the whole picture?
Enron only had a few executives (employees) that violated the rules...so we should have trusted the company regardless?
CCP made the bed, they are now sleeping in it.
If they do not like the wet spot they left when they F'ed the playerbase, they can change sheets by dishing out the proper punishements on those they showed favoritism towards.
Now back to the troll cave with you ...
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
list all the events that were dubious, and no doubt your first response like many other on the boards would be... ah well you have no proof, your lying....
'One GM has been dismissed for misconduct, but not due to anything Knuthead has done. You're trying to claim that the hacker had something to do with it, which is wrong. A GM from the Shanghai office was fired months ago for spawning items for his player. At the time other player accounts were temp banned to preserve the evidence while CCP looked into it, but everything of your above statement past "dismissed for misconduct" is totally out of context. Please don't use hacker boy and unrelated past events to try to make your exaggerations sound better. Since K has turned up no GM has been found guilty of anything, no matter what vile lies him and his ignorant masses been spewing to try to make it true.'
Interesting statement, his account was banned while CCP investigated to preserve the truth.
a) there is no way you can know that.
b) the preserving evidence is complete tripe, in fact it's almost laughable, one simple backup command could preserve the entire state of every transaction and statement on their entire system (if you like I will post the command here for you so you can use it next time), of course you could make the backup statement a little more complex and just back up all his transactions and those of the culprit. I will leave CCP's own behaviour and that of the community to judge that.
'It's not CCPs fault that most people are incapable of independent or coherent thought and simply believe every exaggeration and outright lie and misdirection spammed at them by anyone at all. If people are too ignorant to believe that with a few exceptions CCP is an honest company and is doing the best they can for the game they should just leave instead of trying to poison the community and the game because they can only believe in the worst. This is really gone far enough and posts like yours, which sound like they ring true but are just more misleading spam, aren't helping at all.'
I thank you for this last statement, I think it puts your entire post into context of your character.
I used to play Eve-Online in the CdC alliance while we were in Vail. This was an ok game, but the constant grind to gatecamp got old pretty quick. I moved on, but don't regret playing Eve.
Now that I have listed my qualifications for commenting on this subject, I'm going to weigh in with my thoughts. CCP support was always to be fair "bad". There were a lot of ingame bugs that never got fixed, and their typical response was in a nutshell "learn to play around them, it's your fault that happened". That was one of the reasons that I left the game, that and the ctrl+q while fighting in 0.0 space. I hold no ill will towards CCP at all and think they did a good job in opening up the space-genre for MMOG's.
What I do find amusing is how far the metagaming has gone in this game. If you want to play this game, be prepared for forum hacks, ts hacks screaming during combat ruining your engagements, spies in your alliance in the form of alts, etc.
What I will laugh about is if all of the subscribers find out that they have been paying fools of a group of GM/Dev's who actually control all o f the alliances. Talk about a good social paper... "lets see how many fools will pay to be our slaves for 80+ hours per week, while we sit back and LAUGH at them". Isn't that what everyone is afraid is the truth anyway?
Anyways, good luck to CCP recovering from this, but I don't see it happening.. too many bad things such as outdated graphics, no out of ship experience, crappy servers and just bad game mechanics now.. but still fun for a few months.
Employee looses his toon, whaaaaaaaa, employee should not have cheated. So your trolling comment as to why anyone else with a 3 year old toon would delete is foolish...
Isk nor BPO is the problem, it is lies, coverups, censorhappy propaganda goons that caused the major problem in ccp, the cheating was just the tip of the iceberg...i.e...trust lost is the problem
T20 should have been fired (legaly can still be fired), the rules were in place, the legal aspects covered by the prescribed punishment that the rules stated.
According to Icelandic law, T20 CANNOT legally be fired. I think that is the point most people have missed.
i won't paste the link. but below is the IA blog about the enslaver thing. it might've been posted in this thread already. funny enough, the only thing that comes to mind after reading this IA blog is "waaaaaaaah - whine more". let's see, a dev gets exposed, a dev admitted ONLY to what he was caught red-handed doing, and insists that he works with either cheaters (who do what he does and/or worse) or idiots. but, the community should TRUST ccp, now or ever again, about anything, as long as they play and/or cheat? i can think of about 700 billion, ccp-sanctioned reasons that trust doesn't exist in eve to a very high degree.
reported by CCP Arkanon| 2007.03.02 14:50:46 |
Hello everyone.
This statement concerns the latest allegations published on forums of a hacker who has recently targeted CCP staff, boasting all the while that he’s doing EVE some sort of civil service by disrupting the lives of people that have done nothing wrong, not to CCP or him. I believe this latest attempt is his lowest and most pointless yet, serving only to cause needless grief to those involved and to earn him ‘celebrity’ status in internet circles, imagined or otherwise.
The player known as ‘The Enslaver’ is indeed a GM and has been employed as an intern by CCP since January 3rd this year. Upon his arrival, he voluntarily retired from his position of authority within the alliance he had helped run as a player and went as far as to offer to give the character up completely, if that was required. His involvement ingame has been minimal since his arrival and he has almost completely withdrawn from his alliance duties.
He has also shown himself to be an excellent GM, fully committed to his job and with a thorough knowledge of the game, garnered from his vast experience as a player. We are lucky to have secured his services and judging by the quality of his work so far, he is here to stay.
‘The Enslaver’ is currently one of the highest skilled characters in EVE and one of a handful that can pilot a Titan. It’s truly a shame that this ingame legacy is now tainted by an unprovoked attack on the integrity of the man behind the avatar, to say nothing of the way it was carried out.
It’s also a shame to witness the brutal and remorseless personal attacks being carried out on CCP staff members by a select few individuals, these last few weeks. Let’s step back for a moment and ask ourselves if we want to become involved in the sordid practice of internet stalking that this campaign has become. Let history judge us from our actions, CCP as well as its accusers.
All the best,
Arkanon
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Employee looses his toon, whaaaaaaaa, employee should not have cheated. So your trolling comment as to why anyone else with a 3 year old toon would delete is foolish...
Isk nor BPO is the problem, it is lies, coverups, censorhappy propaganda goons that caused the major problem in ccp, the cheating was just the tip of the iceberg...i.e...trust lost is the problem
T20 should have been fired (legaly can still be fired), the rules were in place, the legal aspects covered by the prescribed punishment that the rules stated.
According to Icelandic law, T20 CANNOT legally be fired. I think that is the point most people have missed. quote the law then...I couldn't find one.
CCP had a rule in place, that even provided them the means to terminate t20, yet choose not to enforce it.
CCP can enforce that rule and fire t20 now, because t20 agreed to the rules when he played the game and became an employee.
The law is in favor of termination since the party to be terminated agreed to the terms from the start... on 2 different occasions, being hired, and logging into the game (you have to agree to play).
if t20's actions result in a loss of revenue, thats a third strike, and can result in termination on its own merit.
if t20 has ownership ties to the code...that is a corner ccp painted themselves into..but it to has a legal recourse.
ccp created the mess, they will have to clean it up (sweeping it under a t2 rug with a t2 broom wont work)...it takes the pair to do so (a common quote from BoD)
Do I expect t20 to be fired?...not really, I know ccp could, but doubt they want too....doesn't mean they can't do other things to show they can be trusted.
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
Dude, I used to play EVE but I can't see how anyone could stand playing it now with such horrible service. Not only has one GM already been caught abusing his powers, but ANOTHER GM now? Yeah sure, maybe he didn't do anything, but the fact that one GM was already caught, and nothing happened to him, you can't blame players for not being upset. If you're a GM and you abuse your powers, that should be it. People play a MMO because they beleive it to be a good game, and one of those elements is security and stability. But those GMs have apparently broken both of those by boosting things arificially and disrupting the balance of their servers. It's a real shame.
But I guess the bigger shame is that the company behind them doesn't seem to care at all.
Dude, I used to play EVE but I can't see how anyone could stand playing it now with such horrible service. Not only has one GM already been caught abusing his powers, but ANOTHER GM now? Yeah sure, maybe he didn't do anything, but the fact that one GM was already caught, and nothing happened to him, you can't blame players for not being upset. If you're a GM and you abuse your powers, that should be it. People play a MMO because they beleive it to be a good game, and one of those elements is security and stability. But those GMs have apparently broken both of those by boosting things arificially and disrupting the balance of their servers. It's a real shame.
But I guess the bigger shame is that the company behind them doesn't seem to care at all.
Err the GM was fired and banned from eve so id say something was done to him Duhhh
Dude, I used to play EVE but I can't see how anyone could stand playing it now with such horrible service. Not only has one GM already been caught abusing his powers, but ANOTHER GM now? Yeah sure, maybe he didn't do anything, but the fact that one GM was already caught, and nothing happened to him, you can't blame players for not being upset. If you're a GM and you abuse your powers, that should be it. People play a MMO because they beleive it to be a good game, and one of those elements is security and stability. But those GMs have apparently broken both of those by boosting things arificially and disrupting the balance of their servers. It's a real shame.
But I guess the bigger shame is that the company behind them doesn't seem to care at all.
Err the GM was fired and banned from eve so id say something was done to him Duhhh
but the dev and those that knew they were gaining via a cheat/exploit and rules violations, had nothing done to them....DUHHHH
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
Employee looses his toon, whaaaaaaaa, employee should not have cheated. So your trolling comment as to why anyone else with a 3 year old toon would delete is foolish...
Isk nor BPO is the problem, it is lies, coverups, censorhappy propaganda goons that caused the major problem in ccp, the cheating was just the tip of the iceberg...i.e...trust lost is the problem
T20 should have been fired (legaly can still be fired), the rules were in place, the legal aspects covered by the prescribed punishment that the rules stated.
According to Icelandic law, T20 CANNOT legally be fired. I think that is the point most people have missed.
Lemme see -
caused severe damage to reputation of corporation he is working for. Is the cause of multiple cases of people not renewing accounts , costing the corp MONEY. Is the cause for starting an expensive, non productive internal security division. Has broken confidentiality vows that just about any employee in a European tech corp has to sign (which in itself is usually enough to get someone instantly fired). Has used corp property and/or code in a non-approved way to gain personal benefits (which some would interpret as STEALING from the corp, as in EVE nowadays there is a legal way to convert ISK into EUROs via GTC).
Under Icelandic law all the points mentioned above are NOT a reason to legally fire someone ? Interesting !
If you are going to be a developer as your career then develop the game (IE: enhancing and expanding the EVE universe) rather than screwing with the EVE community and damaging the in game economy.
CCP simply needs to amend their ways by limiting the allowances that developers have. Devs/GMs should not be allowed to be members of corporations, aid corporations in any way or disturb public game play, PERIOD.
Many of us are tired of hearing about all the cheating... 99.9% of EVE's player base has not been directly affected by the incidents, yet we know what is going on. Most are simply waiting for a formalized resolution and apology from CCP saying that they will stop being wankers and actually do their job as developers. Whether that happens or not is a completely different issue.
Seriously... one would think with the walking in stations/planetary exploration/ECT that are planned to be implemented to increase game depth and attract new players that Devs and GMs would have something productive to do rather than screwing around with all of this crap!
(I've double posted this elsewhere, but it applies here too.)
Comments
Parts of this community have let themselves be played to an extent that's nothing short of pathetic.
It's sad to see this idiocy continue. After being an extremely active forum poster on teh eve-o forums for three years I can say I don't even regret that we've decided to stay off of them for the time being. With this rampant retardation all over the place it's simply not worth contributing to them anymore.
Let me say one thing. If any of you think this will make BoB quit, that you can destroy us or break us up, that somehow through your bandwagoning and whining you will stop us from exacting our revenge on every single entity involved in this, then you're in for a surprise.
1) killing both Titans offline - yes, the titans probably wouldn't be killed, but so what? That's a video game, you don't have to use every possible little trick in order to win there.
2) placing spies at directors level in all major alliances in Eve (may be exl. Goons and RA due to their special recruitment policy)
3) mastering a dirt-smearing PR campaign on forums against the enemy alliances, trying to break their morale not in game, but out of game, and picturing their leaders as incompetent clowns.
4) singing and shouting obscenities on enemy TS, disrupting fleet operations
5) flooding eve-o on daily basis with posts, the only purpose of which was to show to everyone how uber you are and how lowly and pathetic are everyone else, compared to you.
I don't think BoB would achieve less without all those things I've mentioned above. But surely, BoB wouldn't be hated nearly by everyone in Eve and I very much doubt that D2, Goons and RA would work together for only one goal - to kill BoB.
Oh jeez. Typical Bob response. Hey, dude - I know this is hard to believe but this has nothing to do with you. Most of us don't give a damn about whether you collapse, prosper, or whack off to pictures of your Avatar. I know that's hard to grasp, but I promise you its true.
This is about CCP integrity, whether CCP cheat through BOB, D2, LV, RA, GOON, MC, AAA, etc... It's about hoping they create a corporate culture where cheating is less then acceptable, it is deplorable, it is unthinkable, it is unimaginable.
So get your friends over in the bug hunter division to give you some other exploits you can use to circumvent game mechanics. The only people you are impressing are yourselves. I trust that is all the fulfillment you need.
Sheesh.. this post came off as a little bitter... so let me just clarify for the record I have a lot of friends in Bob, and most of them are good guys looking for a good fight. It's unfortunate that the vocal minority make the rest of them look like asshats.
Cheers.
"BoB, the alliance who just couldn't cut it."
"This is Bob. Bob had bitch tits."
I apologize for the earlier overly harsh post on this page.
I didnt intend to threaten anyone. I'm, just saying that even although the current feeling amongst the more rabid of our many enemies may be that BoB will be destroyed, they will be severely dissapointed when they notice how one year from now we're still going about our business ingame as we always have.
So far, and that shocked me as much as anyone else, one whole cheating dev was caught in Eve. And, yes, he was in BoB.
I and many others in BoB have cursed him for his stupidity and for how it has turned people that used to be normal and even-minded players into desillusioned (ex-)players. I don't care about the effect it has had on those that already had an anti-BoB agenda and simply use this to further it. I only feel sorry for the fact that this incident is being used to paint a picture of rampant abuse of game mechanics, and then especially aimed at both BoB and LV.
Enslaver turned GM in january. Before that he knew nothing anyone else did not or could not have. After it he played no more role in Eve as a player. There is no scandal, just malignant slander of CCP.
The two titans we killed may have been killed via metagaming. But, even although I agree the metagaming in Eve might have developed into something that maybe we would have been better off without, it has become part of the gameplay for every major group of players out there, and not just because of our succesfull setting of the example either. The goons metagame, D2 metagames, ASACN metagamed, RA metagames, CA, everyone. And not to any lesser extent then we do, they're just not as open about it as we are (goons excepted).
Forum wars are mild metagaming. Nothing more. None of us take them personally unless RL is dragged into it, and most often not even then. I do not and never have attacked someone's RL character on the public forums. I attack someones actions, or his words. But I attack them as part of the propaganda campaigns we wage, and those we have never denied for what they were either.
So, in conclusion, while I agree that things have gone too far in Eve. I still don't agree that forum behaviour (aside from the rampant cheating accusations and RL slandering going on these days) has gone beyond acceptable boundaries. I still don't think infiltration via social engtineering is unacceptable. I still see it as part of Eve's developed gameplay.
I am undecided currently on how I view metagaming issues like how we killed the second titan (i dont and never will regret how we killed the first). And I am undecided on other metagaming issues like some of the tools used by the goons ingame.
I dissaprove strongly of any form of cheating in the conventional sense, altho for example the use of cynonets is possibly something CCP should look at for turnign into game mechanics (all major alliance use them and have for at least a year, including ASCN btw). Besides cynonets however there is no form of eula breaking I could condone (that I know off). More serious cheating (as in ebaying, duping, abusing gm/dev powers etc) is not allowable in my book nor in that of BoB. We don't engage in it, we never have, and never will as an alliance.
We will also never care about your feelings or belongings as a character unless it suits us. That's the promise we made two years ago, and that's how we'll aways remain.
Devs were fired? When? Please post a link to this info. ( as I think this isn't true...)
CCP axed another of its developers due to misconduct - very very quietly ... and had to fess up because it was published on an icelandic website.
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingamebo...=484863&page=7
(the following is a collection of quotes and requotes from the link above which ends in an answer by the CCP community manager). These incidents are different from the "T20 incident".
Have fun
Erillion
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Apparently, there were 3 other incidents that took place back then we never heard about....
http://www.icelandreview.com/iceland..._0_a_id=264532
note where it says:
Quote:
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Three other employees of CCP have been caught violating the company’s rules by playing EveOnline and were reprimanded or lost their jobs as a consequence.
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While I am not sure about one of the events, I would guess two of the incidents mentioned involved the GM that was fired last summer for abusing his authority and the volunteer who was removed from ISD and perma banned for breaking the rules the summer before that, both of which were publically announced. Since the article does not go into specifics about the instances, it is impossible to take more than an educated guess.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I keep hearing rumors about a very recent incident, with a Nyx and a GM. Not sure if its true, but if it is, any chance you'd post about that?
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Due to our privacy policy, I an not at liberty to say any more than the Developer (not GM) referenced is no longer with the organization.
kieron
Community Manager,
EVE Online
Not really bothered about this tbh. All evidence shows that The Enslaver stepped down from active and public leadership roles in LV when he got his job at CCP.
In my mind the the hacker needs to get a life.
The simple fact is CCP has inspired a atmosphere of corruption, the dev's have cheated in the past because they knew there would be little or no comeback, reports of violations in the first two years of this game (which is when I initially played) were routinely laughed at and dismissed, and there were one or two instances, where BLATENT cheating was ADMITTED by those involved and dismissed.
Now CCP lies in a bed of it's own making, every little thing they do is being scrutinised because they FAILED to deal with previous issues in any responsible manner. t20 was punished..... his gross misconduct resulted in his character being deleted, wow... some hardship there. His friends were allowed to reap the rewards of corruption, they still have the benefit of the funds and information he provided. They still reap the rewards of his misconduct. ONE GM has been dismissed for misconduct, and only then AFTER CCP banned the player who complained about the cheating and the COMMUNITY rose up and objected, not because CCP wanted to be honest, because CCP WAS FORCED to be honest.
Eve is probably the best MMORPG game on the market, I returned to it because it is just that, it has long term appeal and a commitment from it's players that is remarkable this is not reflected in the behaviour of it's makers.
unfortunately the simple fact is every single every time a Dev is exposed they have been influential in a major alliance that has grown to dominate this game (even if you are not actively playing an account you can still take an active role in the corp, providing information and guidance to it's members).
People are going to examine Enslavers actions because they expect to find dirt, because they expect CCP to lie about things, because they expect Dev's and GM's to misbehave and until CCP start to make their system more transparent these things will continue to happen.
And for all the whining that Dev's need to play these roles to experience the game.... well, a large percentage of the players in game are in empire, maybe CCP should start by releasing figures on how many of it' s Dev's are active 0.0 alliances and how many are in Empire corps, then we will see how concerned they are with this game, how many are working the market for their corps, hauling cargo and mining scord.
It's time for CCP to start growing up, it's time for it's staff to start demonstrating that they don't just care about the game but about the people who play it and pay THEM some respect. The hacker may be a moron, Enslaver may be innocent and honest, but it won't matter a damn because of the way CCP have behaved in the past and continue to behave now.
Hello Rob_B. I used to be in ATUK. After the t20 scandal broke I remember a couple of incidents on atuk ts. Namely, the appearance of t20 on our ts and script, chow and stan going off for a nice cosy chat with him during the FA war (just before shinra upped and left atuk in fountain). Do I have proof? Nope, just my memories. /me feels dirty
Now judging by your righteous indignation about the effect this affair has ahd on bob, you are either trying to decieve us of knowing complicity of bob et al in misconduct or are unaware of it. In the first case, well not entirely unexpected nes pas? In the second case, open your eyes.
Rod_B - It's nice to see some humility from a member of BoB, but please try to believe us when we say that, for many, many people upset about this situation, BoB's involvement is purely incidental. I find it supremely ironic, of course, that t20's misdeeds were used to support (in however minor a fashion) your alliance - the alliance whose forum warriors have always been among the first to scream "tinfoil hattery!" any time an allegation of CCP involvement in their affairs was made. Please believe us, though, when we say that we'd be every bit as outraged if t20 had been cheating on behalf of D2, or ASCN, or LV, or RA, AAA, Goons, Morsus Mihi, or whoever else, and CCP had responded in this fashion.
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
List specific details instead of implying "oooh, there's been cheating constantly by the entire company". Post some details of when CCP laughed routinely at allegations of misconduct and the instances you claim where cheating was dismissed. Obviously since this is a routine and constant problem with the company that shouldn't take you long at all to find, right?
Actually deleting a 3 year old character is a bit of a "wow" punishment. Why don't you step up and delete your own characters if having that happen isn't a big deal at all? Yeah, didn't think you would.
BoB's ISK making from the BPOs being left for those months wouldn't have an impact on their ability to play the game, certainly not to the extent that the tinfoil crowd are claiming. However jealous players would like to think that's why BoB's stomping all over them, so they try to make that connection that a few cheap missiles and cheap Sabre's have turned the tide for BoB against the whole server. I think not.
Yes CCP handled the t20 issue badly. The BPOs should have been destroyed and t20 should have been a man enough to have admitted he did that long ago, but whatever, it's time to move on from this now. He's been punished enough already.
One GM has been dismissed for misconduct, but not due to anything Knuthead has done. You're trying to claim that the hacker had something to do with it, which is wrong. A GM from the Shanghai office was fired months ago for spawning items for his player. At the time other player accounts were temp banned to preserve the evidence while CCP looked into it, but everything of your above statement past "dismissed for misconduct" is totally out of context. Please don't use hacker boy and unrelated past events to try to make your exaggerations sound better. Since K has turned up no GM has been found guilty of anything, no matter what vile lies him and his ignorant masses been spewing to try to make it true.
"every single time a Dev is exposed" oh come on! To date over 5 years there's been 2-3 Devs that have cheated, one lost their job the other was punished, maybe not to your liking but still punished. One GM was caught and fired. One ISD member was caught and dismissed and banned from the game. There's no "every single time" happening here, stop trying to make it seem like there is.
You going on to say the "even if you're not actively playing... you can still take an active role" is another great motto of the tinfoil brigade. Stop it! Just because someone "could" cheat doesn't mean they "will" cheat. You cannot PROVE that someone is cheating just because you think they might be able to. You also cannot take the default stance that someone would always cheat because they could possibly be able to. It's people believing that that's causing so many problems here. Sadly that kind of ignorance is impossible to do away with since the people that believe that will believe anything and listen to nothing.
It's not CCPs fault that most people are incapable of independent or coherent thought and simply believe every exaggeration and outright lie and misdirection spammed at them by anyone at all. If people are too ignorant to believe that with a few exceptions CCP is an honest company and is doing the best they can for the game they should just leave instead of trying to poison the community and the game because they can only believe in the worst. This is really gone far enough and posts like yours, which sound like they ring true but are just more misleading spam, aren't helping at all.
List specific details instead of implying "oooh, there's been cheating constantly by the entire company". Post some details of when CCP laughed routinely at allegations of misconduct and the instances you claim where cheating was dismissed. Obviously since this is a routine and constant problem with the company that shouldn't take you long at all to find, right?
You will not find the CCP official version of anything because they deleted and shredded it....
Read the forums from many other sites for info related to why people do not trust ccp still.
Actually deleting a 3 year old character is a bit of a "wow" punishment. Why don't you step up and delete your own characters if having that happen isn't a big deal at all? Yeah, didn't think you would.
BoB's ISK making from the BPOs being left for those months wouldn't have an impact on their ability to play the game, certainly not to the extent that the tinfoil crowd are claiming. However jealous players would like to think that's why BoB's stomping all over them, so they try to make that connection that a few cheap missiles and cheap Sabre's have turned the tide for BoB against the whole server. I think not.
Yes CCP handled the t20 issue badly. The BPOs should have been destroyed and t20 should have been a man enough to have admitted he did that long ago, but whatever, it's time to move on from this now. He's been punished enough already.
Employee looses his toon, whaaaaaaaa, employee should not have cheated. So your trolling comment as to why anyone else with a 3 year old toon would delete is foolish...
Isk nor BPO is the problem, it is lies, coverups, censorhappy propaganda goons that caused the major problem in ccp, the cheating was just the tip of the iceberg...i.e...trust lost is the problem
T20 should have been fired (legaly can still be fired), the rules were in place, the legal aspects covered by the prescribed punishment that the rules stated.
One GM has been dismissed for misconduct, but not due to anything Knuthead has done. You're trying to claim that the hacker had something to do with it, which is wrong. A GM from the Shanghai office was fired months ago for spawning items for his player. At the time other player accounts were temp banned to preserve the evidence while CCP looked into it, but everything of your above statement past "dismissed for misconduct" is totally out of context. Please don't use hacker boy and unrelated past events to try to make your exaggerations sound better. Since K has turned up no GM has been found guilty of anything, no matter what vile lies him and his ignorant masses been spewing to try to make it true.
Welll duh, K doing anything is not the reason to fire anyone....the fact that a employee cheated and violated other rules is reason to fire an employee...
None of the past is "unrelated", it shows a pattern of ccp's to dismiss conduct breaches based on favoritism.
"every single time a Dev is exposed" oh come on! To date over 5 years there's been 2-3 Devs that have cheated, one lost their job the other was punished, maybe not to your liking but still punished. One GM was caught and fired. One ISD member was caught and dismissed and banned from the game. There's no "every single time" happening here, stop trying to make it seem like there is.
You going on to say the "even if you're not actively playing... you can still take an active role" is another great motto of the tinfoil brigade. Stop it! Just because someone "could" cheat doesn't mean they "will" cheat. You cannot PROVE that someone is cheating just because you think they might be able to. You also cannot take the default stance that someone would always cheat because they could possibly be able to. It's people believing that that's causing so many problems here. Sadly that kind of ignorance is impossible to do away with since the people that believe that will believe anything and listen to nothing.
Rules were/are in place that cover the cheating/misconduct issues, but ccp has this favoritism clause...they also have this "trust" thing missing concerning the playerbase...
It's not CCPs fault that most people are incapable of independent or coherent thought and simply believe every exaggeration and outright lie and misdirection spammed at them by anyone at all. If people are too ignorant to believe that with a few exceptions CCP is an honest company and is doing the best they can for the game they should just leave instead of trying to poison the community and the game because they can only believe in the worst. This is really gone far enough and posts like yours, which sound like they ring true but are just more misleading spam, aren't helping at all.
...like your misdirection attempt here? detract from the misdeeds with comments that are intended to isolate each thing, so as to detract from the whole picture?Enron only had a few executives (employees) that violated the rules...so we should have trusted the company regardless?
CCP made the bed, they are now sleeping in it.
If they do not like the wet spot they left when they F'ed the playerbase, they can change sheets by dishing out the proper punishements on those they showed favoritism towards.
Now back to the troll cave with you ...
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
lol, your misdirection is amusing.
list all the events that were dubious, and no doubt your first response like many other on the boards would be... ah well you have no proof, your lying....
'One GM has been dismissed for misconduct, but not due to anything Knuthead has done. You're trying to claim that the hacker had something to do with it, which is wrong. A GM from the Shanghai office was fired months ago for spawning items for his player. At the time other player accounts were temp banned to preserve the evidence while CCP looked into it, but everything of your above statement past "dismissed for misconduct" is totally out of context. Please don't use hacker boy and unrelated past events to try to make your exaggerations sound better. Since K has turned up no GM has been found guilty of anything, no matter what vile lies him and his ignorant masses been spewing to try to make it true.'
Interesting statement, his account was banned while CCP investigated to preserve the truth.
a) there is no way you can know that.
b) the preserving evidence is complete tripe, in fact it's almost laughable, one simple backup command could preserve the entire state of every transaction and statement on their entire system (if you like I will post the command here for you so you can use it next time), of course you could make the backup statement a little more complex and just back up all his transactions and those of the culprit. I will leave CCP's own behaviour and that of the community to judge that.
'It's not CCPs fault that most people are incapable of independent or coherent thought and simply believe every exaggeration and outright lie and misdirection spammed at them by anyone at all. If people are too ignorant to believe that with a few exceptions CCP is an honest company and is doing the best they can for the game they should just leave instead of trying to poison the community and the game because they can only believe in the worst. This is really gone far enough and posts like yours, which sound like they ring true but are just more misleading spam, aren't helping at all.'
I thank you for this last statement, I think it puts your entire post into context of your character.
I used to play Eve-Online in the CdC alliance while we were in Vail. This was an ok game, but the constant grind to gatecamp got old pretty quick. I moved on, but don't regret playing Eve.
Now that I have listed my qualifications for commenting on this subject, I'm going to weigh in with my thoughts. CCP support was always to be fair "bad". There were a lot of ingame bugs that never got fixed, and their typical response was in a nutshell "learn to play around them, it's your fault that happened". That was one of the reasons that I left the game, that and the ctrl+q while fighting in 0.0 space. I hold no ill will towards CCP at all and think they did a good job in opening up the space-genre for MMOG's.
What I do find amusing is how far the metagaming has gone in this game. If you want to play this game, be prepared for forum hacks, ts hacks screaming during combat ruining your engagements, spies in your alliance in the form of alts, etc.
What I will laugh about is if all of the subscribers find out that they have been paying fools of a group of GM/Dev's who actually control all o f the alliances. Talk about a good social paper... "lets see how many fools will pay to be our slaves for 80+ hours per week, while we sit back and LAUGH at them". Isn't that what everyone is afraid is the truth anyway?
Anyways, good luck to CCP recovering from this, but I don't see it happening.. too many bad things such as outdated graphics, no out of ship experience, crappy servers and just bad game mechanics now.. but still fun for a few months.
Employee looses his toon, whaaaaaaaa, employee should not have cheated. So your trolling comment as to why anyone else with a 3 year old toon would delete is foolish...
Isk nor BPO is the problem, it is lies, coverups, censorhappy propaganda goons that caused the major problem in ccp, the cheating was just the tip of the iceberg...i.e...trust lost is the problem
T20 should have been fired (legaly can still be fired), the rules were in place, the legal aspects covered by the prescribed punishment that the rules stated.
According to Icelandic law, T20 CANNOT legally be fired. I think that is the point most people have missed.
i won't paste the link. but below is the IA blog about the enslaver thing. it might've been posted in this thread already. funny enough, the only thing that comes to mind after reading this IA blog is "waaaaaaaah - whine more". let's see, a dev gets exposed, a dev admitted ONLY to what he was caught red-handed doing, and insists that he works with either cheaters (who do what he does and/or worse) or idiots. but, the community should TRUST ccp, now or ever again, about anything, as long as they play and/or cheat? i can think of about 700 billion, ccp-sanctioned reasons that trust doesn't exist in eve to a very high degree.
This statement concerns the latest allegations published on forums of a hacker who has recently targeted CCP staff, boasting all the while that he’s doing EVE some sort of civil service by disrupting the lives of people that have done nothing wrong, not to CCP or him. I believe this latest attempt is his lowest and most pointless yet, serving only to cause needless grief to those involved and to earn him ‘celebrity’ status in internet circles, imagined or otherwise.
The player known as ‘The Enslaver’ is indeed a GM and has been employed as an intern by CCP since January 3rd this year. Upon his arrival, he voluntarily retired from his position of authority within the alliance he had helped run as a player and went as far as to offer to give the character up completely, if that was required. His involvement ingame has been minimal since his arrival and he has almost completely withdrawn from his alliance duties.
He has also shown himself to be an excellent GM, fully committed to his job and with a thorough knowledge of the game, garnered from his vast experience as a player. We are lucky to have secured his services and judging by the quality of his work so far, he is here to stay.
‘The Enslaver’ is currently one of the highest skilled characters in EVE and one of a handful that can pilot a Titan. It’s truly a shame that this ingame legacy is now tainted by an unprovoked attack on the integrity of the man behind the avatar, to say nothing of the way it was carried out.
It’s also a shame to witness the brutal and remorseless personal attacks being carried out on CCP staff members by a select few individuals, these last few weeks. Let’s step back for a moment and ask ourselves if we want to become involved in the sordid practice of internet stalking that this campaign has become. Let history judge us from our actions, CCP as well as its accusers.
All the best,
Arkanon
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Employee looses his toon, whaaaaaaaa, employee should not have cheated. So your trolling comment as to why anyone else with a 3 year old toon would delete is foolish...
Isk nor BPO is the problem, it is lies, coverups, censorhappy propaganda goons that caused the major problem in ccp, the cheating was just the tip of the iceberg...i.e...trust lost is the problem
T20 should have been fired (legaly can still be fired), the rules were in place, the legal aspects covered by the prescribed punishment that the rules stated.
According to Icelandic law, T20 CANNOT legally be fired. I think that is the point most people have missed. quote the law then...I couldn't find one.
CCP had a rule in place, that even provided them the means to terminate t20, yet choose not to enforce it.
CCP can enforce that rule and fire t20 now, because t20 agreed to the rules when he played the game and became an employee.
The law is in favor of termination since the party to be terminated agreed to the terms from the start... on 2 different occasions, being hired, and logging into the game (you have to agree to play).
if t20's actions result in a loss of revenue, thats a third strike, and can result in termination on its own merit.
if t20 has ownership ties to the code...that is a corner ccp painted themselves into..but it to has a legal recourse.
ccp created the mess, they will have to clean it up (sweeping it under a t2 rug with a t2 broom wont work)...it takes the pair to do so (a common quote from BoD)
Do I expect t20 to be fired?...not really, I know ccp could, but doubt they want too....doesn't mean they can't do other things to show they can be trusted.
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
But I guess the bigger shame is that the company behind them doesn't seem to care at all.
but the dev and those that knew they were gaining via a cheat/exploit and rules violations, had nothing done to them....DUHHHH
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
Employee looses his toon, whaaaaaaaa, employee should not have cheated. So your trolling comment as to why anyone else with a 3 year old toon would delete is foolish...
Isk nor BPO is the problem, it is lies, coverups, censorhappy propaganda goons that caused the major problem in ccp, the cheating was just the tip of the iceberg...i.e...trust lost is the problem
T20 should have been fired (legaly can still be fired), the rules were in place, the legal aspects covered by the prescribed punishment that the rules stated.
According to Icelandic law, T20 CANNOT legally be fired. I think that is the point most people have missed.
Lemme see -
caused severe damage to reputation of corporation he is working for. Is the cause of multiple cases of people not renewing accounts , costing the corp MONEY. Is the cause for starting an expensive, non productive internal security division. Has broken confidentiality vows that just about any employee in a European tech corp has to sign (which in itself is usually enough to get someone instantly fired). Has used corp property and/or code in a non-approved way to gain personal benefits (which some would interpret as STEALING from the corp, as in EVE nowadays there is a legal way to convert ISK into EUROs via GTC).
Under Icelandic law all the points mentioned above are NOT a reason to legally fire someone ? Interesting !
What do they do instead in iceland ? Beheading ?
Have fun
Erillion
Developer/GM = JOB
If you are going to be a developer as your career then develop the game (IE: enhancing and expanding the EVE universe) rather than screwing with the EVE community and damaging the in game economy.
CCP simply needs to amend their ways by limiting the allowances that developers have. Devs/GMs should not be allowed to be members of corporations, aid corporations in any way or disturb public game play, PERIOD.
Many of us are tired of hearing about all the cheating... 99.9% of EVE's player base has not been directly affected by the incidents, yet we know what is going on. Most are simply waiting for a formalized resolution and apology from CCP saying that they will stop being wankers and actually do their job as developers. Whether that happens or not is a completely different issue.
Seriously... one would think with the walking in stations/planetary exploration/ECT that are planned to be implemented to increase game depth and attract new players that Devs and GMs would have something productive to do rather than screwing around with all of this crap!
(I've double posted this elsewhere, but it applies here too.)