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General: Beyond Men in Tights
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
At GDC, Jon Wood attended a roundtable led by Daimon Schubert from BioWare Austin.
Yesterday was another great day at the Game Developers Conference (GDC) for MMORPG.com. Not only did the show floor actually open today, but it also kicked off a number of game development seminars. One that caught my interest that I thought folks might be interested in was called Beyond Men in Tights. The session was led by Daimon Schubert from BioWare Austin (I asked, they're still not giving any information about what they're making).
At last year's GDC, Daimon ran a seminar by the same name where he talked about the reasons that the fantasy genre was king in the MMORPG realm. This year, the topic was the same, but the format was different. Instead of standing at the front of the room and talking for an hour, Schubert chose to open the discussion up to a room full of developers. The question was simple. Why fantasy?
Read it all here.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
Well maybe the "car" that is online fantasy isn't broke, but it's only putting along at about 5 mph now and the AC in it is shot.
Why is everyone so afraid to break the mold? Are you all cool with seeing elves and orcs prancing around in the fantasy genre until your old and grey?! What is wrong with this picture?
I'll be the first to say that I LOVE Tolkien's work. He created an amazingly in depth world of beauty and power for us to explore and to capture our imaginations...SO WE COULD CREATE OUR OWN, not keep rehashing the ideas in his work till the end of time.
I applaud games like Saga of Ryzom and Asheron's Call. These games, while not being as extremely popular as games like Everquest and World of Warcraft, have brought creativity and innovation to the fantasy genre.
I am personally working on creating my own fantasy world...and when I say fantasy I mean I am using my imagination to create, combine, and morph all my ideas in to a whole new and wonderful world that is it's own genre. I want to give back to the world what Tolkien gave us, inspiration.
.....................................
...but time flows like a river...
...and history repeats...
-Leader of "The Fighting Irish" in DAoC on Hib/Kay-
hm, how about this theory - the dominance of Fantasy is mostly a racial cultural worldview thing.
Western mmog'ers (both players and developers) all share a common western european heritage that is filled with a mythos of elves and dwarves and magical mystical influences that goes back thousands of years, and originally springs from Greek and Roman views of how the natural and supernatural world operates. Included in that is the notion of Monotheism and the 1000 year old democracy of Iceland.
What about Far Eastern cultures? There's some common elements, with Dragons and Magic, but was there a rich Fantasy element to ancient Chinese civilization? i don't know much about the subject, but the commonly shared "consciousness" seems to revolve around fictional stories based on an actual Dynastic History (like Romance of the 3 Kingdoms) rather than purely made up stuff like in the West.
And what of the Mid East, did they have a Fantasy element to their pre-Mohammad ancient culture?
How about India? Any pure made-up Fantasy? Or did Indian culture evolve around fictional stories based on their (6000 year old?) Theological History of Hinduism and much later, Bhuddism?
no idea.
What about "One Thousand One Night Stories"? Don't worry, Fantasy worlds live in every culture around all the globe
Massive Multiplayer Online Industry
Currently playing:
LOTRO, Rift (beta) and WoW (on occasion)
Fantasy is more easy accessible, with all the cultural based history (mideval times e.g.), fairy-tales and later Tolkien, thus easy to graps without having to "study".
SciFi on the other had - there is no "reference", other than SW or ST perhaps, and not everyone is into that. Some of those "universes" can become so complex, that it is more work, rather than fun to get into them (or, people are scared enough not to try). Take Eve - not that complicated actually, but still very "estranged" for many (especially) casual players.
The only(?) reason SciFi is popular in mainstream consumers, are movies, because the viewer can visualize that universe more easily - and often, unfortunately, the "lore" of many scifi movies are not particularly deep. (I am not talking about series here - they can be so deep, that the "casual" consumer looses interest again fast, because it becomes too complicated).
Alternatively, those SciFi movies are very close to "our presence"/"our present world", so that it becomes "boring", to live in today with simply some robots and lasers added. Sure, Second Life is a present-theme game, but how many actually play it? It's a niche game, like so many other (rare) scifi mmos.
That's why SWG had initially such a huge fanbase - it is a known, and fairly simple universe (well, until movies 1-3 perhaps?). StarTrek on the other hand, now that could either be a huge success due to it's reputation, or a failure, because of too in-depth lore. We will see I guess. Heck, I used to be a Trekkie, but have no clue anymore - quit watching after DS9 season 2. Movies 9 (and 10? lol, see, I dunno) I didn't see, neither Enterprise - so what will happen to the even less involved casual consumer?
Please, Bioware. Please give us a good, non-fantasy MMORPG.
We need one. :<
I would say the main reason fantasy is dominant is that there is a common reference which many people are aware of. Tolkien, D&D and all their offshoots have all been variations on the same base information. Ask a random person what defines fantasy and they will tell you swords, sorcery, dragons, elves, lords, kings, knights, medieval technology, etc.
When a new game comes out, these common facotrs give people something they understand. We know generally what defines an elf, a dragon, a wizard, and so we don't need to look up all the details. There's a reason why the vast majority of games don't mess around with the staples.
Now, do the same with Sci-Fi. What defines Sci-fi? Well . . . there's space . . . and guns . . . sometimes . . .aliens? . . . also, sometimes . . . There is no common reference for Sci-Fi. The specifics of the genre are still too varied to conjure up a universally recognized baseline of information. Classic fantasy is a bit one-dimensional that way, mainly because of Tolkien, whereas Sci-fi has either had too few (or too many) strong defining works to give it a definitive identity.
--
Michael K. Donovan
I think another big reason that fantasy is "safe" is that it isn't real. The game has complete freedom with everything from characters to landscape to story content. It can have realistic looking effects with unrealistic characters like dragons, trolls and dwarves. It can be unrealistic with big-headed, small-bodied wizards who look like cartoons. It can be all sorts of combinations of already familiar lore, or even completely new.
Personally, I think that genre is only part of what makes a great overall game. So many companies see fantasy as "safe" that there are too many games with that theme, and players are too focused on what else the game has in comparison. The theme should fit the game, not the game to a played-out theme. The game should stand on it's own merit.
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Why fight human nature? Fantasy is dominant because it is in our minds. It's about our dreams and fears, our "fantasies". Things that go bump in the night, heroic actions, beautiful visions, dark enemies.
This isn't because of literature or movies. It goes back to mankinds earliest thoughts. Look at the old religions, and you find fantasy. Look at old stories handed down by word of mouth since before mankind learned how to write, you'll find fantasy. Allmost every aspect of fantasy predates written history. Fairies, Dragons, it all goes back to mankinds basic nature to fear the unknown and wonder about the mysteries of nature.
That doesn't mean Sci-Fi or Horror can't be made too. They, at their roots, are based on the same human nature. Aliens equal demons, dragons, and elves. Do it right and you'll have a winner.
The biggest problem with these game developers is they don't seem to get what makes a game good in players minds. They do know that "polish" is a biggie, but they don't quite get exactly what it is about that. They think in "gamey" terms, and forget the natural immersion factors that can make a game great.
I'm still waiting for UO3DWTG (UO 3D Without The Gank), becuase they had it right except for that gank thing.
Once upon a time....
I have to say I found the comment about genre distancing games from WoW a funny one.
I play City of Heroes, and just about every customer suggestion you see comes down to "give us this thing that WoW has." You simply cannot distance yourself from the 800lb chimp.