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How is the PvP in this game?
godmathias
Member Posts: 12
I really really really really hate WoW and i stopped playing EQ2 recently because of the terribly low population of the game. I keep coming back to this game, i really have a thing for it.. I would like to know how the PvP is??? I played on the Champion server i think, and when i used to play, battlegrounds were very empty. Can somebody tell me if its just a low populated server? if so, can i character transfer to the most populated one? or is there just not many people who pvp? Then again I was only like a 25 scrapper so there was only 2 battlegrounds i could play.. are the higher lvl battlegrounds more populated? Im really intrigued to getting back to this game but not if i dont hear some good things about the PVP. thank you for your help with my seemingly limitless questions 
Comments
SWG Refugee
Bloodfin Server - Starke
i didnt have alot of fun with pvp. i thought it was boring. plus everyone jumps around alot and that looks stupid. guildwars has the best pvp so far. when age of conan comes out it might have better pvp if it lives up to the hype.
do you know if i can transfer my char to freedom?
So, in regards to CoX pvp, well....... I have heard siren's call has active pvp even on liberty it jumps sometimes. Freedom or Virtue is where u have the most participants though. I'd say go with Freedom. The problem is in sirens they cap you to level 30. This is nice but the Level 50s running Hami-Os still have advantages over the newbies. Additionally, I still don't think they fixed the exploits such as a scrapper hitting elude before he walks into SC giving him godmode.
At Level 50 I got Demonic Aura (from a badge). Good power. Was shocked I could not use it in Siren's. The reason why was because I was above level 30 when I got the power. If I had completed the badge at Level 30 I could use Demonic Aura in Sirens' Call. So thats broken too.
Arenas are pretty much ghost. Everyone basically goes to Test Server and does Arena. That's fun but u cannot pick the map you fight on and there's some instanbility to Arena. Plus, you can easily verify what inspirs the other person has. It's kinda painful trying to ensure they not using the Super Break Frees, etc. Still, ppl do the SG matches in Arena and just deal with the flaws like they have done for years
Base Raids were incredibly laggy. One time the SG we were raiding logged in late or something so we got an easy win. The disconnects and lag werte unbelievable.
Base Raids and Arena can have layouts that dampen vertical movement, which sucks.
The powersets are not balanced in regards to each other (for instance Ice primary has no equal for single target dmg for Blasters for pvp so your choices narrow for pvp). Ice has great range, best singe target dmg, fast activation, and best secondary effects (slows someone's power recharge rates to a crawl)
villains get spanked in organized high lvl pvp (SG vs SG). Heroes get incredibly powerful at level 50 while Villains just dont step up as well. On pvp general, Rystorm says even on Freedom RV is pretty dead. I think the problem is now that heroes have safeguard missions they have less reason to pvp.
Has some powers that cannot be countered like Sonic Cage (puts you in another diemnsion for a bit if it lands). Some powers are a bit overpowered (that goes back to balance)
The Good: Great vertical movement but can be hard to keep someone in a fight if they dont want to fight, crazy powers like teleport / phase makes things interesting, and basically the combat is totally original and I have not seen another game like it whereas everyone is zipping around (superspeed+superjump) throwing blasts, etc
I still say give the PvP a try if you love the game. Many hardocre pvpers have left for WoW but there's still a lot of good players around
Now in regards to Guild Wars I do find the PvP a lot better thought out. However, for adding PvP to the game as late as Issue 4, I think the pvp turned out fairly good. I really had some fun times engaging in it
However the PvP of CoX offers various unique things that make it worth trying out, as long as you don't get upset about balance or whatever. The travel powers are very unique and important and there are a lot variations between types and the expemplared zones is an interesting feature.
Well the pvp in CoX actually comes in 3 flavors...
First you can just do the standard zone in and find An Enemy and beat them into the dirt. If you defeat 20 players you get a badge for it also.
Second you can do the pvp missions. They are repeatable for quite a while and the patrol mission first time you complete earns you a badge. The missions are instanced, so you're only in pvp danger to and from the mission. Completing them will help earn a zone-wide buff for your faction or zone-wide debuff for the other side.
Finally, each zone has a repeatable objective to complete. Blood Bay you mine and process ore samples and get a temp power of a Shivan Shard (summons an Elite Boss to fight for you for about 5mins). Sirens Call has the bounty system where an enemy player is worth some bounty which you can use to buy temp powers with bounty points. Warburg has the Warburg Rocket that once you "launch" it you get a 1 charge temp power of your choice of a nuclear, biological or chemical payload. It may be only 1 charge but it is a hellofa big boom when used.
On Infinity I find Sirens and RV tend to be the most populated pvp zones. Sirens for the more straight-up pvp, RV for the badge hunting when the ingame signature heroes/villains show up.
FYI, its been a long time since I've tried a base raid maybe that has been fixed by now. Inspite of my gripes I still loved to pvp made several films for fun was trying to list the pros/cons. I'd rather tell you everything I know and let you choose hehe....
Some more pros I didnt get a chance to list earlier:
1) like others have said all pvp happens in the zones. You do not have to worry bout being ganked/griefed/camped. There are rogues (stalkers) in this game but heroes can get +perception or team with Empaths to see them.
2) You can buy inspirations to help you out in PvP. If you wanted too, you could swallow a ton of +dmg (reds) and 1 shot someone hehe. This is both good and bad and frowned upon by a few. But I had fun trying it once on a poor scrapper.
3) Travel powers do allow people to get away from you but you can specialize in keeping them still. Villains can get Black Scorpian which provides -jump to keep ppl still. Grav trollers have a -jump component in their attacks. Scrappers- hm, well if you go superjump+suiperspeed you can catch people a lot sometimes especially if teamed with someone that can put slows on someone
4) Vertical movement is totally amazing I really loved doing the SG vs SG stuff and watch everyone zip around
5) Arenas on test server can be fun for 1v1 stuff. I wish more ppl woulda showed up I wouldve liked to do more team vs team. but you will get alot of that in sirens (team vs team) anyway
6) Very fun teaming with others. Buffing/Debuffing is very strong in this game so its fun getting buffs and beneficial to take down debuffed targets
7) In Sirens you can get rewards and take control of the zone like others mentioned. You can also get rewards I wish they did this for RV too
8) Game not gear loot whoring like WoW. So even if someone is using Hami-Os (best enhancement) it is still nothing like WoW whereas a nub will get mowed down by epic gear. I say this kinda painfully cause I did enjoy the 40vs40 content for awhile I am not a WoW basher.
I recommend this game for casual pvping but I do not think its good for long term hardcore pvp because the Devs dont appear to be adding any features or really taking an interest into that portion of the game. Anyway tried to write a good, unbiased post so u can make your own decision
Here is were im gona get eaten alive: I simply don't agree with the dis advantage of CoH vs CoV. I'v been playin this game for a bit now. When I first started PVP way back when I did see some issues with unfair builds a CoH Rock/Rock would most likely beat a CoV rock/rock. I do think that there are some classes that need some tweeking to make more = but. With villins out there like MMs [zomby/dark MMs] can just punish all heroes. I'v seen them take on 6 man teams of heroes. Theres a guy in my guild that has one. Its simply a beast!!.
I think do to nerfing its not so much un = on Cov/Coh builds. It also has alot to do with the person behind the toon. I have toons on both sides and I see persk with all my toons. The big'est diss advantage comes when dealing with HOs. But I think this loot and enhancment building addition should help. Will see.
Well any good hero will know to ignore the MM pets and go for the MM himself since he has the health of a gnat.
Each pvp zone has a different style of pvp play, so if you didn't like how one zone was another may appeal to you more as well. Once you get around the level of a particular zone, usually some contact will refer you to the liason to remind you that zone is now available to you.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7763708&an=0&page=0#Post7763708 What makes PvP so imbalanced?
That thread is probably a good place to start. In regards to SG vs VG battles is when the balance issues standout bigtime.
Rad/Psi defenders bring -40% unresistable debuff. -40% resist hurts, even brutes. Add in the fact Psionics is least resisted dmg typoe in the game. Add in the fact SGs like to pair Ice/EM Blasters (highest dmg index in the game) + 30% unresistable dmg then you are looking at death incarnate. Villains have nothing like the Rad/Psi + Ice/EM Blaster duo. Even scrappers have unresistable dmg bonus. Only Villain that has unresistable dmg is Stalkers and they get ripped when there's an Empath about (Clear Mind grants +perception). Not to mention scrappers run Focused Accuracy so they can see Stalkers anyway.
Empaths break Dominators. Dominators cannot land their holds and dominators lack the incredible secondaries Controllers get to keep them alive and buff others. Add in the fact dominators have low dmg output and Domination takes awhile to build and to do their best dmg they have to be close range + low health.Thus, Dominators get farmed 24/7. They just dont help at all.
Masterminds get destroyed by Teleport Foe or Nukes. MMs are a lot less mobile then other Archetypes because they need their pets close by to grant bodyguard protection.
Brutes are great when swarmed by heroes but in Team PvP when no one attacks them (unless they're fully debuffed and getting spiked)- they can only provide Taunts. Tankers make much better Taunt Bots generally and they do more dmg because no good team is going to let a Brute build Fury.
/Rad corrupters are useful however they lack the -40% resist debuff Defenders have- thus they cannot come close to the glory that is Rad/Psi. Someone did a 1v1 comparison between rad/sonic defender and sonic/rad corrupter. The rad/sonic defender does more damage 1v1. Now, imagine a team whereas everyone is benefiting from the -40% unresistable debuff = near instant death
Heroes have stronger debuffs/buffs bar none. Corrupters do buff/debuff in their secondary heroes have it as their primary (defender)
Even though controllers cant really put holds on a good team trollers still can fallback to healing, buffing, and debuffing. Dominators cant do that
It's a slaughter really. So yeah in random zones Villains can do well but once a real SG enters the zone watch all the Villains exit or get farmed
Let's not even bring up the Epics Villains CANT EVEN RESPEC out of. Heroes can respec at will not to mention they get powerful epics like high +def bubbles (like elude) and defenders get Total Focus (good burst dmg), powerboost, etc. Did you know a powerboosted mind/kin troller can perma-slam a villain til they die?
How is this balance?
TLG is aguably the Best AOE heal in the game. The only one on the heroes side that can have it are Defenders. On villins both MMs and Currs can have it.. Sloted with 2 Max acc and 1 recharge and 3 max heal. At lvl 50 you can almost fill your hole HP bar back up in one hit. yes you need a foe to use it but it only misses around 1 in 8 times sloted that way. It recharges very fast with 1 recharge so you can spam it. With poweres like these and many others villins can even up the score in a hurry.
I simply don't believe the stats, I think they are acty/build vs acty/buid spusific. Take Doms for instents I don't know were your getting this Domms being worthless thing from.. Yea Doms don't get the buf/debuff lvl secondarys like Trollers. But I'v seen Mind/fire doms take out inval tanks and just about every blaster you can think of. They don't get the debuffs but I think they get just as good controls and maybe even better damage secondarys then trollers get. If doms are out powered bye trollers its through there Pets. Animated stone and others Doms don't get and should.
I haven't been to the link you pointed but I will. I just think the stats are to flimsy
Well in the PvP zones anything can happen hence why post is focused on SG vs VG.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7825011&an=0&page=0#Post7825011 Only 1 real Villain SG left (notice they only fight villains lol just like my old villain group did)
Every hardcore villain pvp group I know all rerolled heroes (so now some new ones are trying to start that have never seen the rad/psi defender + blaster spike). All the top PvP SGs are heroes. The stats do not lie if I didnt know what I wasn't talking then show me where one villian supergroup beat a serious group? if this game was balanced for teams then why cant the best villains beat the best heroes (mind you, both teams are using ventrillo and have been playing the game for a long time)
Yeah MMs lack mobility which is a big no-no in Arena where all the pro pvpers are running superspeed+superjump and buffed against TP Foe, holds, etc. What can pets hit when all the heroes are blazing around? Especially if the rad/psi defender decides to debuff the MM. Without +tohit you wont be hitting anything. Villains are really short on that you know. once all your pets are debuffed with -40 resist, -acc -def -slow (EF+LR+RI) all it takes is a nuke from a BU+Aim fire blaster. keep in mind in Arena everyone is buffed and Heroes have strongest buffs in the game. The buffs that Empaths alone bring to arena is sickening. Everyone is gonna be speed boosted which will resist -slow -recharge and many other effects you could bring with ease
Also think of this- all you gotta do is kill the MM once. After that it will take him forever to setup his pets again. From that point you just keep farming him. MMs cant bounce back into the fight like an Empath or Corrupter. mind you, I am not talking bout pvp zones where you have a safe zone to run too. I'm talking bout Arena- where there is no safe place to setup
And yes there is absolutely nothing Dominators can do in SG vs VG arena. Nothing whatsoever. Empaths negate Stalkers + Dominators completely. I could list a dozen links where this commonly discussed on PvP general or Dominator forums. Just look at CoH Builder its right there this is nothing new. Clear Mind offers mez protection and +perception. Increase Density and Clarity also offers mez protection and that just off the top of my head. I'd take a troller to SG Arena anyday over a Dom. At least the troller can buff/debuff. Trust me I've seen it. Trust me I've played a 40 dominator in pvp extensively on Test they get dropped hard
so sure in some random pvp zone maybe you beat down a fire/ blaster. heck, I'd believe that. My EM/ELA brute has soloed scores of heroes. But the difference is when you step into SG vs VG and you can show me a villain group that can beat a good hero SG they we can talk. but for now, all the evidence points in favor of heroes by a longshot. This is known, its all over the PvP General forums
And yes of course you wont just walk into a random zone and probably encounter a 50 mind/kin running pwoerboost + Hami-Os + knows what hes doing. These are things that you encounter in Arena. I'd encourage you to show up for Arena nights on Test or try to join a serious pvp group (not just do the random PuG pvp which does nto expose you to everything the game has to offer)
made a mistake earlier Corrupters can also get unresistable dmg with Scourge
edit- post went way too long trimmed it down a bit
The MM class:
Any MMs worth there spit will understand the basic tactics of there build. Mobility is almost gone. But because of there power that is not there focus a single MM with a good mind/ice Dom or even a healer can take on a team of 8 heroes and make it out as the victor. A MM with a tanker a Dom and a good Curr can be unstopable with good [TEAM TACTICS] I have tanken my fire/dark out with a Merk/dark Merc/buble and a zomby/dark and have had unbelievable secsses. Lets be real with TP FOE really the only true threat to them thats not alot to worry about in comparisen to most builds. With a good curr or Dom to protecting them that can even be taken away. So there pets are free to reak havic on just about any heroe build you can come up with. If your Tech specs tell you that Dom vs Defender or troller is uneven then ok I beleave you but that don't take them out of the game. Doms are still no push over ACTY trust me I know VeT PVPers with Doms as there mains. Villin teams simply need to adjust there tactics to compinsate for there loss in power effectiveness to spusifec foes.
I'v simply seen to many amazing things done bye some of the villain classes to say that they are at a unfair dissadvantage.
like to see the ice secondary as an option for the MM class as well as better effects coming from the leadership pool for mms.I do see the staggering over powered buff/debuffs from the hero empath the dom simply can't compete. The villains ACTs need more support from there Doms and if not doms the MMs but I know it won't come from the MMs. Some how the Devs got there hairs crossed and made the Doms a damage class more then a support class. They did a fair job at spredding suppor debuffs/buffs through out the villain ACTs mainly Currs and MMs but its just not enough. But I still think a Team consisting of 2 MMs a zomby/dark a Merc/bubble combined with a fire/dark cur a dom mind/ice a rock/nrg brute and either another Dom with heal, or a stalker. Is a pretty hard team to beat. Yourlooking at over 20 total fighters in that team. 3 of those members able to AOE heal and Debuff. With those ACTs built for PVP..... Good Team Tactics.
lol unresistable or not with all the -acc -damage Slows Fears that the MM and the Dark Curr get to play with. They won't be able to use that buff anyway.
I'm not sure what you are suggesting. Speed Boost grants serious resistance to slow and Clear Mind blocks both Holds. (edit- maybe it was Clarity that grants Fear protection I forget I'll elaborate on Fear later). you have to realize we are dealing with extreme min/max in PvP. If someone has a 'hole' they perceive as a weakness they will surely bring a buffer to cover it. I know, my VG always wanted my Ice/Kin for Increase Density + Speed Boost in pvp
-ACC will do absolutely nothing to a hero in Arena. They have a wealth of +tohit buffs did you read that post on PvP General? Empaths blocks -ACC with Fortitude
And this is the thing about rock brutes. They are not all that useful in Arena. Brutes are not targetted when they are squishies about. Brutes Taunt. You dont need a rock brute to Taunt they are too slow to maintain LOS with a target running around at cap
+def bubbles are nice but Heroes have a wealth of +tohit (Focused Accuracy, -def from rad toggles, Fortitude, Aim+BU). They will punch through this is what Heroes were designed for. They've been punching through high +Def bubbles for years.
And dont think you will be killing the Empath. PvP Empaths know to run Phase Shift and once phased all debuffs will disappear. See http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Number=7087174 for Empathy PvP Builds to see what you are up against I'm not making stuff up
edit- Checkout some of the pvp vids by Aura: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xMQgKUCPGM SG vs SG. Notice how if somehow a Hold or anything sort of status effects Aura is no doubt yelling on vent for a defender to free him. Notice how at the end of the film he still has the ONE Break Free he brought to Arena lol
Fear is normally not regarded as very useful for quick kills since you can be buffed against it or simply pop a Break Free (I'm talking even the random pvp zones in this case too). Checkout the Corrupter forums, Fire/Dark is good for PvE but not highly regarded for PvP. Ice/Rad, Dark/Cold (for 1v1), and Ice/Cold are the FoTMs. Ice/Kin necessary for pvp teams for the buffs. Ice does a lot better single target dmg then Fire. Additionally, no one is standing around close together in a pro PvP match. So you do not benefit from the AoE capabilities. Humans are nothing like the gimped mob AI we farm in PvE. They plan, run, min/max, and heal.
Now if this was Guild Wars or WoW then your theories about Fire/Dark would have more merit because they both lack good vertical movement. CoH is a different animal. Everyone is zipping around at cap and only the dead stay still
edit- Finally make sure you look at CoH / CoV Character Builder its an absolute must for pvp it will help you out a lot
Well a Sonic Defender can buff heroes with Clarity which protects them from Fear. Sonic Defenders are also useful for Sonic Cage (remember much earlier I mentioned how someone can lock you into an alternate dimension) and they bring unresistable debuffs. They are second only to Rad Defenders. You give Fear way too much value. Sure, in a 1v1 Arena match my EM/ELA brute got owned by a Dm/Regen scrapper. I'm not saying its not good for 1v1 but in an organized team setting its just not all that great. If Fear is a threat, it will be covered easy. The SGs will Powerlevel a Sonic Defender if needed. That's how they operate
Now perhaps some of your ideas may have some merit? Maybe you'll run into an SG that does not bring a Sonic Defender?
And who knows in random pvp zones anything goes. So you can of course enjoy some good success there. I have even some Dominators running around on killing sprees there.
Well depending on the skills of the player and the slotting of their powers, will really determine how effective Hero vs Villain fights are. It seems, to me at least, that a lot of these examples and such are either (1) ideal scenarios or (2) hardcore players. The former is best to benchmark how to work your build but will rarely be acheived, while the latter is a vast minority typically.
Speaking as a MM myself...
With the health of a gnat, I know full well I cannot take hits. The bodyguard ability goes *poof* the moment I tell my pets to attack, since they go aggressive. However I found that with Manuevers 3 slotted for defense, Hover 3 slotted for defense and Dark Embrace 3 slotted for damage resistance I am not nearly as squishy as expected. I also use some common sense, if I Hover high enough to be out of melee range but still nearby to give my pets Leadership and Supremacy bonuses, then tankers and scrappers are far less dangerous.
Now as a Scrapper....
The issue of "well +perception defeats stalkers" is however horribly flawed. My scrapper, near a team mate with Tactics (+perception), also running Focused Accuracy (+perception), chewing on yellows like M&M's (+perception), weave (+ defense), tough (+lethal/smash resist) was still one shotted by a stalker I didn't see coming. What many forget is that Hide stacks with any other stealth power in the game. Now for those that say "wait Cryptic said you can't be one-shotted" that is technically true BUT stalker Assassin Strike is actually two different damage types applied at the same time. My stalker is energy melee so the damage is smashing + energy, so the game treats it as two different damage sources and thus the one-shot.
Well, SGs dont bring scrappers to Arena besides Spines as far as I know. And Spines Scrappers dont sit still waiting for a stalker to AS. Second, you will be buffed by Clear Mind which grants you extra +perception in addition to Focused Accuracy. In addition to this, buffs stack. The +perception cap is higher then the -stealth cap meaning it is impossible for a Stalker to hide completely away from a hero. In any case, in an SG match no one is sitting there dukling things out. Range Damage Dealers is what people bring. Did you watch that film I posted? Everyone has superspeed+superjump maxed.
For instance, my VG ran 7 corrupters and 1 /ELA brute or 8 corrupters. Heroes that we fought dint bring any meleers period. Thus, no one is sitting there duking things out. The only meleer I would personally bring is a Spines scrapper. Maybe a Tanker for Taunts if we had to bring one (but it would not be my choice).
Man, this is sad there used to be a lot of Villain PvP SGs (LOTD, Bedlam, etc). I was personally apart of 2 that both saw their members go heroes
And yes I am speaking purely of hardcore SG vs SG not the random zones. Almost any build can succeed in random zones of course since you're dealing with pubs. I've personally soloed any type of hero on my brute. However, when we speak of balance we must take into account Arena which is a controlled enviroment where the best builds are put to the test by the best pvpers. Also, the math in CoH / CoV builder is irrefutable + prima guide + City of Data. They all point towards Heroes tipping the scales bigtime
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7393154&an=0&page=1#Post7393154 Defenders > Corrupters [edit- nevermind this link its a lot of posts to wade through. For PvE, Corrupters are comparable for the most part. But in PvP, rad/psi > ice/rad]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xMQgKUCPGM Here's the link to the SG vs SG again. Notice they have 3 primary buffers (Defenders) and 2 secondary buffers (Trollers). The rest appear to be ranged dmg dealers, no melees. Anything Villains can bring they pretty much counter with ease unless they decide to leave that hole open. Villains dont have the same luxury. And as you can see, no one is sitting still (so if they were fighting villains no way to easily AS them even if they had no Empath).
Not trying to rehash and old topic but I think I might have been mistaken on somethings....
I took the time to look up the Fire/Dark combo. It has been awhile since I've considered /dark. I was not aware Darkest Night was a -tohit debuff. I thought /dark only had -acc debuffs which is not as potent as a -tohit debuff. I am still not sure bout bringing MMs to Arena especially since people say there is a way to get out of a Tar Pit. But in any case your ideas does have good merit is what I was trying to say.
interesting thread on fire/dark & dark miasma btw...
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7851229&page=0&fpart=2&vc=1
edit- I guess I do agree with their assesstment that dark miasma is not effective in professional level pvp. but I have seen it do some nice stuff in pvp zones like that Mr Quizzles has said
PVE arena 1v1 is a diff story I'll take my fire/dark over my ice/nrg anyday. You just have to know how to use it. Yes with swift sloted right with hertal tarpit can be escaped. But You simply don't lead with it thats how people get in trouble they lead with it as there mez hold. Wrong. Because a good kyter with good mobility will jump right out of it before you can set it. So you need somthing to keep him on the floor first. Hes most likely going to be coming at you jumping and moving like crazy. So fear sloted right is a good starting then you can stack the tps on him 2 at a time if you slot TP right. Then I move to my Dark servent who will then spam him with debuffs and holds while hes in tp with will aid to the -acc from DN witch works great. If hes a pill poper then HTwilite is a good daze to reset your self. Mixed with powerful ranged DPS from fire you can stand back and blast him to death while your Pet is debuffing him like crazy making it pointless to fight back. This tactics works very well for me in PVE there are many more.
Like any build there are counter builds to it that It simply can't beat. But its still a great power set that comes with High DPS and a nice sortment of debuffs and mez holds.
Now for the MM thing. Bringing a MM to a PVP zone is basicaly suicide if you don't have a /rad or /therm to protect you from tp foe. but with one they can be a one man army. When it gomes to SG raids I don't know about them. Theres basicaly a rule for non nub lvl raids of what you bring to the raid and what not to. I guess its deppendent on your sg and what they work with the best. But yea I still thing there a powerful ACT that offer alot of fun, as well as a challenge to the player.