Vanguard's viability is dependent on whether the other games that are coming out this year are good or not. If any one of it's Competitors are good then Vanguard will be the next Planetside or Matrix Online. Of course they could come up with some massive changes that will change it's situation but things do not look good for it. After the double XP weekend my friends list of about 20 people are all offline. These folks were mid teens to mid 20s so and with the extreme grind in Vanguard I don't think they re-rolled. I know for me personally I would not re-roll a alt given the grind.
Excuse me, but what grind?
2 levels a day in a normal group are no miracle, and on workdays at least 1 per evening is well doable. Or do you refer to a solo-centric playstyle?
Vanguard's viability is dependent on whether the other games that are coming out this year are good or not. If any one of it's Competitors are good then Vanguard will be the next Planetside or Matrix Online. Of course they could come up with some massive changes that will change it's situation but things do not look good for it. After the double XP weekend my friends list of about 20 people are all offline. These folks were mid teens to mid 20s so and with the extreme grind in Vanguard I don't think they re-rolled. I know for me personally I would not re-roll a alt given the grind.
Excuse me, but what grind?
2 levels a day in a normal group are no miracle, and on workdays at least 1 per evening is well doable. Or do you refer to a solo-centric playstyle?
I am talking about after level 15. Levels 1 - 15 is almost like WoW but it will hit you soon. Plus groups are not really an option given the size of the world and the number of Players.
I doubt SOE will pull an NGE as they don't actually own the game, only the publishing rights. However they may push Brad to pull one but I doubt it would be as encompasing as the NGE. SOE will push for an expansion on schedule which Sigil has supposedly already planned. Brad is already showing signs of compromising his "vision" and the reality is that his vision is rooted in 1st generation MMOs and he was fooling himself into thinking this was a 3rd generation game. The graphics may be 3rd generation but the gameplay is 1st generation.
Within the year there will be a few releases that add something new to an old tired and tested genre like MMOs. Vanguard is just a copy of somehting old. It will be left far behind in the dust, no matter if they fix their tons of bugs, hire a real artist for buildings and models, a map artist. Its just a clone of early MMOs, it does not add anything to the genre. Others will. Vanguard will be forgotten. They had their shot.. they blew it.. and these diehard fans that will now tell me to shut up... will also play the new games and not even under totrture admit how fanaticly they defended Vanguard against valid concerns.
I wonder why you complain about people telling you to shut up, when almost every post u make is in the Vanguard forum saying that it sucks, or that "they blew it" or even that people who like Vanguard sucks and are just liars. And then, you dont mind telling everybody who like the game to "shut up" and they are just obsessed Vanboys... Do us a favor and go play you favorite game (i really wonder if someone like you likes anything at all)...
Sorry, about the rant but seeing the same person making the same posts bashing and trolling like a little kid in every vanguard post just makes me sick. Oh and btw did you try the game? I bet you didnt bother, since you know it sucks.
No real reason to answer. Its just "Vanguard fan reply No1 to any concern". If you really want a reply, go read any of the other 500 posts you talk about. Its in those, and you seem to have read all of them.
Da Vanguard defence list:
Your computer sucks.
You are a clueless hater.
No problems on my computer, you dont know what you talk about,
You have not played X hours
You have not made X level.
You do not know games, only those that like Vanguard know games.
You hate SOE
You are biased.
You work for WoW
You probably have a typo or grammatical error somewhere, which means... you dont know anything about games.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force"
You know I play this game. I'll be the first one to step forward and tell you the game is in pretty bad shape currently. I've done as much in my review I did on the game. Now I know what the game is like but for some reason I think when someone post about a game the way the above poster did it makes you wonder did this person really play the game? You never see anyone or hear anyone ever? Really? LMAO! Runs terrible on your machine yet you say nothing about your systems specs?
As the person that started this thread I asked a specific question and made a little request about if Sigil should re-release the game and how they might go about doing it and ask others their input on how Sigil might do it, and what does the above poster do instead. Rants, BS's...and then advertises Lineage II. Totally disregarding the topic of the thread. I guess his reading comprehension is a little below average huh?
Nice. Thanks for totally derailing this thread and turning it into a slam Vanguard thread. God I swear some people. ::shakes her head::
OK I will answer your comments.
Yes, I play the game. I actually play it quite often, and I am level 22 on the Varking (Team PVP) server (with 3 alts of various levels). I was a guild leader in another game for 3 years, and we decided to move to Vanguard. Not only did my guild move from the other game, but we've also gotten several players from OTHER guilds to join us. Of course, we've also picked up a few players who we have never known before along the way. My point is this. I am NOT a casual gamer. I have absolutely no problem investing time in a worthwhile game.
On to other points. I did not feel like my post was bashing Vanguard. I made several points and also presented constructive ways that these points could be addressed. I also gave specific examples.
As far as my system specs, my main gaming machine almost matches the RECOMMENDED requirements for the game, and my other machine exceeds the RECOMMENDED requirements. Yes, I have played Vanguard on the computer in my living room, which allows me to run the game at High Quality with just a few minor tweaks. This is a really good machine. My machine in my bedroom, however, is where I prefer to do most of my gaming, and the system specs are not nearly as good as the machine in my living room. Now, I COULD upgrade my bedroom machine to somewhat be comensurate to the specs of my other machine. But why worrying about upgrading for graphics that just don't do it for me. Sorry, but I find the game to be bland.
I was not advertising Lineage 2. After 3 years, I left Lineage 2 to go to Vanguard. I have deleted Lineage 2 from both of my computers. I have no intention whatsoever of returning to Lineage 2. However, I was stating an opinion. Lineage 2 is much more graphically appealing to me in nearly every way over Vanguard . . . and it has much, much less performance demands.
I AM hopeful that Vanguard will go the way EQ2 did. When EQ2 came out, I gave it a shot (my 12 year old daughter still plays it). Initially, EQ2 ran very, very similarly on my machine to the way Vanguard is running now. However, as EQ2 was patched over the year, my performance increased to the point where I was EXTREMELY happy with the game's performance. Again, I hope this will be the same story for Vanguard.
As far as disgregarding the topic. The topic is abour "Re-release - Q4 - with expansion?". If you read my post, I quite clearly stated that the game was too big in its initial state. Quite frankly, it doesn't need an "expansion", it simply needs to "add what's missing". I really believe that initially, Vanguard should have been smaller and then built upon. This might have solved many of the problems that players are having with the game.
This game has potential, but I think it will be months before this potential is realized. I hope it IS realized, because I think I will enjoy this game. But I won't pay a subscription fee for a few months based on "potential". My money goes to the game who has had its potential realized. Right now Vanguard is NOT a good game, in my opinion. It's not bad, either. It's right on the bubble. I HOPE it gets a kick start and jumps up and proves me wrong. I want to be proven wrong.
Finally, as for the game's population. Last night I rode my mount from Tanvu to CB at 10pm eastern time. I did not see one person along the way, except for one pker I killed that was hanging out in Jalen's Crossing. I ran all the way up into CB to the banker, and I did not see ONE other person. This is not unusual. Perhaps it is just that Kojan is not very popular, but based on Kojan on Varking, this game is very, very sparsely populated.
Vanguard's viability is dependent on whether the other games that are coming out this year are good or not. If any one of it's Competitors are good then Vanguard will be the next Planetside or Matrix Online. Of course they could come up with some massive changes that will change it's situation but things do not look good for it. After the double XP weekend my friends list of about 20 people are all offline. These folks were mid teens to mid 20s so and with the extreme grind in Vanguard I don't think they re-rolled. I know for me personally I would not re-roll a alt given the grind.
Excuse me, but what grind?
Wow.
You're not serious are you? You see folks, but this is a prime example of what delusion can do to you.
What grind? ?? ?? ?
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
At this point it wouldn't be worth it to go through the effort of a "re-release". The game is nothing more than a crappy station-pass borefest. There is nothing revolutionary about the game and the fact that SOE is involved keeps thousands of people from even considering it.
Let Vanguard be the place for all the McQuaid lovers to play so they stay out of other games and we'll all be happy.
Give it time Soe will buy it from Brag , Nge it and it will sit on the station pass long with all the other dead or dieing games .
Hell they bought MXO they will buy anything.lol
Hell Rewirtte it and Put it in a chrome box and Im sure Someone will buy it an play it .
As for Vanguard I played the alpha i have played the Beta hell I even talkt to Brad ana Smed online one time, Im let down not by the games vision , but by its excution.
Seriously guys, this game it' s never gonna be main stream, and personally I like it this way.
Just give up and find another game already.
This "camping" situation in Vanguard forums is not good for your health, you should dedicate more time to find a game that suits your taste instead to waste your time by telling Sigil what should they change to make it more WoW or LOTRO.
Gameplay wise, this game for me looks awesome.
Bugs: Believe it or not, I only found 3 quests bugged so far and I am lvl 30 adventurer and lvl 15 crafting, I really don't see all this bugs people keep talking about (and I do lot of quests).
Unless you count as bugs the low performances on most machines, and the memory leaks which keep the client crashing.
Those, I agree are very annoying issues that can break or make the game, but saying that the game is bugged just because you can't run it properly or you keep crushing, gives the idea to other people that the game has a million of bugs, which is not the true.
Vanguard has more or less the same bugs as EQ2 when it was launched, I played both and really I can't see that much difference bug wise (I also beta DnL and that was a bugged game, lightyears away from Vanguard).
They need to sort the stability and performance problem, maybe they need to add a little bit more content for the high level characters, but apart for that the game is not such a disaster, far from it.
The only thing I really don't like about this game is Brad Mcquaid trying to convince people that the game is also for casual players.
It is not!!! I wish he could stop before Sigil gets a bad reputation (not that being associated with SoE helps anyway)
Vanguard's viability is dependent on whether the other games that are coming out this year are good or not. If any one of it's Competitors are good then Vanguard will be the next Planetside or Matrix Online. Of course they could come up with some massive changes that will change it's situation but things do not look good for it. After the double XP weekend my friends list of about 20 people are all offline. These folks were mid teens to mid 20s so and with the extreme grind in Vanguard I don't think they re-rolled. I know for me personally I would not re-roll a alt given the grind.
Excuse me, but what grind?
Wow.
You're not serious are you? You see folks, but this is a prime example of what delusion can do to you.
What grind? ?? ?? ?
Grind is a mindset, not an objectively defined thing. People called 45 minutes of killing a large spawn of mobs in order to get faction for a character to advance a large storyline quest a grind, when they did it as a price for skipping 20ish quests on the way...... but that was in a game where there is NO "kill X" mob quest in the entire game.
To me Vanguard is no grind, cause I dont count slaughtering my way through a dungeon with a group a grind. Sure, it involves killing 100s of mobs throughout an evening that are in the way, give xp, loot, and arent part of a quest, but I think thats standard MMORPG gameplay.
Is killing the 50th zombie in Quake 1 a grind? I guess you could say so.
Basically, if someone wanted to argue about grinding, the 2nd wolf you kill in a quest that requires you to kill wolves is the beginning of the grind, if that wolf doesnt substantially differ from the first.
As such, naturally, all games are grinding.
In WoW, pvp was considered grinding honour points. In Guild Wars ( a grindless game as far as I am concerned) doing 45 minutes faction farming, that also netted money, in order to skip a lot of sidequests was considered a grind.
In LotR:O the necessity to do numerous fed-ex tasks and "kill X of Y" is a grind.
In SWG levelling your skills by nature of using them in whatever way needed repetitively was considered a grind.
Everything is a grind. Heck, even exercise in RL is one by that mindset.
Bottomline is: Vanguard takes not more time to level up, or in general to complete a questline, than the average MMO out there. Compared to the early EQ2 (I played that to max level), EQ1, FFXI, DAOC or AC1 its actually pretty quick if done right. However, if you in general dont enjoy the process of doing it, it ll always feel like a grind. Thats why I say, the "grind" is in your head. And its different for everybody.
Seriously guys, this game it' s never gonna be main stream, and personally I like it this way.
Just give up and find another game already.
This "camping" situation in Vanguard forums is not good for your health, you should dedicate more time to find a game that suits your taste instead to waste your time by telling Sigil what should they change to make it more WoW or LOTRO.
Gameplay wise, this game for me looks awesome.
Bugs: Believe it or not, I only found 3 quests bugged so far and I am lvl 30 adventurer and lvl 15 crafting, I really don't see all this bugs people keep talking about (and I do lot of quests).
Unless you count as bugs the low performances on most machines, and the memory leaks which keep the client crashing.
Those, I agree are very annoying issues that can break or make the game, but saying that the game is bugged just because you can't run it properly or you keep crushing, gives the idea to other people that the game has a million of bugs, which is not the true.
Vanguard has more or less the same bugs as EQ2 when it was launched, I played both and really I can't see that much difference bug wise (I also beta DnL and that was a bugged game, lightyears away from Vanguard).
They need to sort the stability and performance problem, maybe they need to add a little bit more content for the high level characters, but apart for that the game is not such a disaster, far from it.
The only thing I really don't like about this game is Brad Mcquaid trying to convince people that the game is also for casual players.
It is not!!! I wish he could stop before Sigil gets a bad reputation (not that being associated with SoE helps anyway)
To get a return on their investment Vanguard needs a certain amount of subscriptions. Only SOE and Sigil knows what the break even number is. If the game only cost a couple of million to develop then your argument would be valid. Eve proves that point but Eve did not cost as much to produce.
I agree that this game is in no way casual but that does not mean that it does not have to be fun. I do not think they need to change the game to make it more like WoW or LoTR. They can not compete in that space. Vanguard needs to stick to it's hardcore roots and embrace them. Hardcore does not mean that they need to keep all the bad stuff from EQ1 in the game however. The game can be hardcore and fun at the same time. Also, the game can be hardcore and made enjoyable by people who have grown older since EQ1 and don't have massive amounts of free time. Hardcore does not have to mean large time commitment.
The key is to figure out how to get groups going as fast as possible. Increase the XP across the board and expecially for groups and put in tools that will allow groups to happen quickly. This can include meeting stones, Call of the Hero type functionality, LDoN type instances, make Tanks and Healers uber so people play them, whatever. Vanguard shines in group play. The problem is that people do not get a chance to experience that to the fullest because of improper designs. Vanguard can fill the niche of being an extrememly fun grouping game where groups are easy to get. Not only will they maintain the current base of players but it will be the game that people come to after they get bored with the more casual games.
Fun = grouping. Grouping = fun. To me identifiying the solution is simple, however executing the solution will not be simple and may not be in time to save the game.
You know I play this game. I'll be the first one to step forward and tell you the game is in pretty bad shape currently. I've done as much in my review I did on the game. Now I know what the game is like but for some reason I think when someone post about a game the way the above poster did it makes you wonder did this person really play the game? You never see anyone or hear anyone ever? Really? LMAO! Runs terrible on your machine yet you say nothing about your systems specs?
As the person that started this thread I asked a specific question and made a little request about if Sigil should re-release the game and how they might go about doing it and ask others their input on how Sigil might do it, and what does the above poster do instead. Rants, BS's...and then advertises Lineage II. Totally disregarding the topic of the thread. I guess his reading comprehension is a little below average huh?
Nice. Thanks for totally derailing this thread and turning it into a slam Vanguard thread. God I swear some people. ::shakes her head::
OK I will answer your comments.
Yes, I play the game. I actually play it quite often, and I am level 22 on the Varking (Team PVP) server (with 3 alts of various levels). I was a guild leader in another game for 3 years, and we decided to move to Vanguard. Not only did my guild move from the other game, but we've also gotten several players from OTHER guilds to join us. Of course, we've also picked up a few players who we have never known before along the way. My point is this. I am NOT a casual gamer. I have absolutely no problem investing time in a worthwhile game.
On to other points. I did not feel like my post was bashing Vanguard. I made several points and also presented constructive ways that these points could be addressed. I also gave specific examples.
As far as my system specs, my main gaming machine almost matches the RECOMMENDED requirements for the game, and my other machine exceeds the RECOMMENDED requirements. Yes, I have played Vanguard on the computer in my living room, which allows me to run the game at High Quality with just a few minor tweaks. This is a really good machine. My machine in my bedroom, however, is where I prefer to do most of my gaming, and the system specs are not nearly as good as the machine in my living room. Now, I COULD upgrade my bedroom machine to somewhat be comensurate to the specs of my other machine. But why worrying about upgrading for graphics that just don't do it for me. Sorry, but I find the game to be bland.
I was not advertising Lineage 2. After 3 years, I left Lineage 2 to go to Vanguard. I have deleted Lineage 2 from both of my computers. I have no intention whatsoever of returning to Lineage 2. However, I was stating an opinion. Lineage 2 is much more graphically appealing to me in nearly every way over Vanguard . . . and it has much, much less performance demands.
I AM hopeful that Vanguard will go the way EQ2 did. When EQ2 came out, I gave it a shot (my 12 year old daughter still plays it). Initially, EQ2 ran very, very similarly on my machine to the way Vanguard is running now. However, as EQ2 was patched over the year, my performance increased to the point where I was EXTREMELY happy with the game's performance. Again, I hope this will be the same story for Vanguard.
As far as disgregarding the topic. The topic is abour "Re-release - Q4 - with expansion?". If you read my post, I quite clearly stated that the game was too big in its initial state. Quite frankly, it doesn't need an "expansion", it simply needs to "add what's missing". I really believe that initially, Vanguard should have been smaller and then built upon. This might have solved many of the problems that players are having with the game.
This game has potential, but I think it will be months before this potential is realized. I hope it IS realized, because I think I will enjoy this game. But I won't pay a subscription fee for a few months based on "potential". My money goes to the game who has had its potential realized. Right now Vanguard is NOT a good game, in my opinion. It's not bad, either. It's right on the bubble. I HOPE it gets a kick start and jumps up and proves me wrong. I want to be proven wrong.
Finally, as for the game's population. Last night I rode my mount from Tanvu to CB at 10pm eastern time. I did not see one person along the way, except for one pker I killed that was hanging out in Jalen's Crossing. I ran all the way up into CB to the banker, and I did not see ONE other person. This is not unusual. Perhaps it is just that Kojan is not very popular, but based on Kojan on Varking, this game is very, very sparsely populated.
OK...at least you ahd the curtesy of coming back and clearing things up. This is good. I am able to address one thing that I find funny. I can see why you hardly see or hear anyone now. Varking server? That says a lot right there. It is a PvP server. Need not say any more.
Thanks for taking the time to come back and repost.
I am able to address one thing that I find funny. I can see why you hardly see or hear anyone now. Varking server? That says a lot right there. It is a PvP server. Need not say any more. Thanks for taking the time to come back and repost.
Er....you do know that in WOW, for just one example, I believe PVP servers account for almost 50% of the total...
Don't be hating on the PvP.... WAR is nothing but PVP, AOC promises lots of PVP fun, Darkfall...hardcore, FFA scream in pain PVP, and even LotRO has a form of PvP. (no, really, it does)
VG's PVP-free servers are actually sort of an anomoly.... and not the gaming "norm" (even WOW normal servers have consensual pvp)
If Varking is suffering in population because its a PVP server, blame the poorly implemented PvP system.... but not PvP in general...a substantial portion of the gaming population enjoys it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Focus on Exploration - VG's greatest asset is the huge world, allow the players to use it, explore it, and enjoy it.... SWG may have done this best in the past.
#1 thing they should remember is that you can be inspired by someone else's work and use their ideas, but improve on them when you do that.
I mean ok so there are only a few ways to organize a quest journal to make sense, or a ui to function, but that doesn't mean you have to rip off the color schemes, border colors and general feel of other games.
I thought for sure this was going to be my replacement for SWG. I am very disappointed.
If the game had launched last year with a 'normal' number of issues / bugs then I would have anticipated 2 expansion packs in 2007 this being the type of thing that EQ1 has done now for years.
Given the late launch and the fact that people were pulled off the expac just prior to launch (according to Brad) to work on said bugs then the first expac is probably late. I am sure they would like to launch 2 this year but reality will probably limit them to just a single expac probably for Thanksgiving. (May and November would have been my guess for 2 expacs.)
A consideration however will be how well VSoH has sold vs. how many boxes they manufactured. I am sure they would like to manufacture a combined pack/xpac for sale and sell the xpac directly as a download - less cost, more money.
Advertising - they probably won't have the money so it will be viral all the way and anything they can get for the xpac.
Cashflow will be the big issue for Sigil this year. And leaving aside the bugs there is no doubt in my mind that the average time people spend in a game is much shorter than it used to be in the EQ1 days with the possible exception of WoW. Simply the fact that there are more games around.
Within the year there will be a few releases that add something new to an old tired and tested genre like MMOs. Vanguard is just a copy of somehting old. It will be left far behind in the dust, no matter if they fix their tons of bugs, hire a real artist for buildings and models, a map artist. Its just a clone of early MMOs, it does not add anything to the genre. Others will. Vanguard will be forgotten. They had their shot.. they blew it.. and these diehard fans that will now tell me to shut up... will also play the new games and not even under totrture admit how fanaticly they defended Vanguard against valid concerns.
I wonder why you complain about people telling you to shut up, when almost every post u make is in the Vanguard forum saying that it sucks, or that "they blew it" or even that people who like Vanguard sucks and are just liars. And then, you dont mind telling everybody who like the game to "shut up" and they are just obsessed Vanboys... Do us a favor and go play you favorite game (i really wonder if someone like you likes anything at all)...
Sorry, about the rant but seeing the same person making the same posts bashing and trolling like a little kid in every vanguard post just makes me sick. Oh and btw did you try the game? I bet you didnt bother, since you know it sucks.
No real reason to answer. Its just "Vanguard fan reply No1 to any concern". If you really want a reply, go read any of the other 500 posts you talk about. Its in those, and you seem to have read all of them.
Da Vanguard defence list:
Your computer sucks.
You are a clueless hater.
No problems on my computer, you dont know what you talk about,
You have not played X hours
You have not made X level.
You do not know games, only those that like Vanguard know games.
You hate SOE
You are biased.
You work for WoW
You probably have a typo or grammatical error somewhere, which means... you dont know anything about games.
DAMNIT! I have to answer... must resist... nope. Sorry. Here it comes:
vanguard_hater.py
import random as r
def vanguard_hater():
"""vanguard_hater: a program to pluck a fits-all string from a list of standard responses and returns.
v1.0 : Installed and tested. -COR4X
"""
# Note: because I am a freakin nerd, this script actually works. Paste it into a python script and see. *sigh*
tVanHate = ["Your computer sucks too!", "You are a clueless fanboi!", "There are tons of problems on everyone's PC, you're a liar!",
"I played more than joooooooooo!", "I r higher lvl than u, nuuuber!",
"You do not know games, only people that hate vanlard know games!", "You lick the boots of SOE!", "You are biased",
"You work for Sigil!", "You probably have a typo or grammatical error somewhere, which means... you don't know anything about games."]
sReturn = random.choice(tVanHate)
return sReturn
In any event... the silly lobbing of easy retorts happens on both sides of the fence. Please "just say no" to stupid insult-hurling.
If you're going to insult someone, have some decorum, class, and subtlety about the matter!
It' might be to late for this game to make a come back. And when new players get into the game and really get a taste of what vanguard is really like,they wont like what they are tasting at all. Redoing this game well take to much money and this game needs all the money it can bring in from the huge drop in subs. And plus if they did have money to begin with they would have never came out with an mmo in this day and age in beta and pass it off to the customers as a finished game. Especially when theres are other mmo's out there on the market like wow eq2 and so on.How many ppl will give a game a second chance? So this topic is a cool one but i can't see them rewrapping this game and bringing out as a new one unless they sank some more money into this hole which frankly from a business stand point will be a bad investment. So what they will do is try as they might to make some money back on this investment by any means necessary. Example 1(DOUDLE XP WEEKEND #1) Example 2.(Double Xp weekend 2) did it work ? Expect more acts of desperation like this once they cont. to lose more and more subs trust me on that.
Aw well there will be others games out there but i hope the gaming industry takes notes at what happened to this game and stop trying to pull this kinda of crap on customers after all we have the last say in any game right? If we don't buy it they won't make it remember that. This game was based on many great idea but executed poorly if they has just taken they time on this one,it could have been a cut above the rest of the mmo's out there instead of just a cut. NIce crafting system,Diplomacy is cool but really who plays an mmo for the crafting and the diplomacy system?
FFxi Retired Coh/Cov Retired Guild Wars/Retired WOW/(11-23-04/1-6-07) VSOH/ retired AOC/retired that was fast Waiting 4 DCUO ,and FFXIV
Varking server and you cant find people? What time of day are you on, cause population has yet to be a problem for me- plenty to group with, plenty to kill.
Back on topic, anything like a re-release would be a mistake IMO, games get one shot at being new and VG has had its chance to make a first impression. Now they just have to work with what they have and hope they do as well as EQ2 did turning things around. Either way, the game will never be the success for the Sigil and $OE that it could have been.
I can't really say what VG needs I guess, because I don't know who the hell this game is made for. I read stuff written by the developer about the game a long time ago, his 'vision' or whatever. I remember thinking it looked like a list of everything I didn't want to play- A longer, slower, more pain-in-the-ass EQ2. After reading about the early release, I kinda followed along here, and while by far the tone was negative about the game a few things caught my eye. I mentioned the game in passing to a friend, he got the impression I was playing and went out and bought it, so I did to- expecting I was wasting my time and money while standing in line with it. Long story short, 30 days later we are still playing, and have had 3 more friends do the buddy trial and end up buying the game.
My point in all this is that according to the vision, I should hate the game. I never followed it or cared about its development, never applied for beta. The only games I've played for any serious amount of time are UO, SB, and pre-nge SWG- to me, everquest represented all that was wrong and evil in western MMO's, so the fact that it was made by the same people damn sure didn't win any points. Hell, I even use ATI and according to the game, thats not 'the way its meant to be played.' So if people like me enjoy the game, and the vanboys are starting to turn against it, what should they do? fuck if I know, but I'll play it while its fun.
Comments
2 levels a day in a normal group are no miracle, and on workdays at least 1 per evening is well doable. Or do you refer to a solo-centric playstyle?
2 levels a day in a normal group are no miracle, and on workdays at least 1 per evening is well doable. Or do you refer to a solo-centric playstyle?
I am talking about after level 15. Levels 1 - 15 is almost like WoW but it will hit you soon. Plus groups are not really an option given the size of the world and the number of Players.
I wonder why you complain about people telling you to shut up, when almost every post u make is in the Vanguard forum saying that it sucks, or that "they blew it" or even that people who like Vanguard sucks and are just liars. And then, you dont mind telling everybody who like the game to "shut up" and they are just obsessed Vanboys... Do us a favor and go play you favorite game (i really wonder if someone like you likes anything at all)...
Sorry, about the rant but seeing the same person making the same posts bashing and trolling like a little kid in every vanguard post just makes me sick. Oh and btw did you try the game? I bet you didnt bother, since you know it sucks.
No real reason to answer. Its just "Vanguard fan reply No1 to any concern". If you really want a reply, go read any of the other 500 posts you talk about. Its in those, and you seem to have read all of them.
Da Vanguard defence list:
Your computer sucks.
You are a clueless hater.
No problems on my computer, you dont know what you talk about,
You have not played X hours
You have not made X level.
You do not know games, only those that like Vanguard know games.
You hate SOE
You are biased.
You work for WoW
You probably have a typo or grammatical error somewhere, which means... you dont know anything about games.
"This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
It should be thrown with great force"
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
Wow.
You're not serious are you? You see folks, but this is a prime example of what delusion can do to you.
What grind? ?? ?? ?
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
Let Vanguard be the place for all the McQuaid lovers to play so they stay out of other games and we'll all be happy.
Hell they bought MXO they will buy anything.lol
Hell Rewirtte it and Put it in a chrome box and Im sure Someone will buy it an play it .
As for Vanguard I played the alpha i have played the Beta hell I even talkt to Brad ana Smed online one time, Im let down not by the games vision , but by its excution.
Sad
Just give up and find another game already.
This "camping" situation in Vanguard forums is not good for your health, you should dedicate more time to find a game that suits your taste instead to waste your time by telling Sigil what should they change to make it more WoW or LOTRO.
Gameplay wise, this game for me looks awesome.
Bugs: Believe it or not, I only found 3 quests bugged so far and I am lvl 30 adventurer and lvl 15 crafting, I really don't see all this bugs people keep talking about (and I do lot of quests).
Unless you count as bugs the low performances on most machines, and the memory leaks which keep the client crashing.
Those, I agree are very annoying issues that can break or make the game, but saying that the game is bugged just because you can't run it properly or you keep crushing, gives the idea to other people that the game has a million of bugs, which is not the true.
Vanguard has more or less the same bugs as EQ2 when it was launched, I played both and really I can't see that much difference bug wise (I also beta DnL and that was a bugged game, lightyears away from Vanguard).
They need to sort the stability and performance problem, maybe they need to add a little bit more content for the high level characters, but apart for that the game is not such a disaster, far from it.
The only thing I really don't like about this game is Brad Mcquaid trying to convince people that the game is also for casual players.
It is not!!! I wish he could stop before Sigil gets a bad reputation (not that being associated with SoE helps anyway)
Wow.
You're not serious are you? You see folks, but this is a prime example of what delusion can do to you.
What grind? ?? ?? ?
Grind is a mindset, not an objectively defined thing. People called 45 minutes of killing a large spawn of mobs in order to get faction for a character to advance a large storyline quest a grind, when they did it as a price for skipping 20ish quests on the way...... but that was in a game where there is NO "kill X" mob quest in the entire game.To me Vanguard is no grind, cause I dont count slaughtering my way through a dungeon with a group a grind. Sure, it involves killing 100s of mobs throughout an evening that are in the way, give xp, loot, and arent part of a quest, but I think thats standard MMORPG gameplay.
Is killing the 50th zombie in Quake 1 a grind? I guess you could say so.
Basically, if someone wanted to argue about grinding, the 2nd wolf you kill in a quest that requires you to kill wolves is the beginning of the grind, if that wolf doesnt substantially differ from the first.
As such, naturally, all games are grinding.
In WoW, pvp was considered grinding honour points. In Guild Wars ( a grindless game as far as I am concerned) doing 45 minutes faction farming, that also netted money, in order to skip a lot of sidequests was considered a grind.
In LotR:O the necessity to do numerous fed-ex tasks and "kill X of Y" is a grind.
In SWG levelling your skills by nature of using them in whatever way needed repetitively was considered a grind.
Everything is a grind. Heck, even exercise in RL is one by that mindset.
Bottomline is: Vanguard takes not more time to level up, or in general to complete a questline, than the average MMO out there. Compared to the early EQ2 (I played that to max level), EQ1, FFXI, DAOC or AC1 its actually pretty quick if done right. However, if you in general dont enjoy the process of doing it, it ll always feel like a grind. Thats why I say, the "grind" is in your head. And its different for everybody.
To get a return on their investment Vanguard needs a certain amount of subscriptions. Only SOE and Sigil knows what the break even number is. If the game only cost a couple of million to develop then your argument would be valid. Eve proves that point but Eve did not cost as much to produce.
I agree that this game is in no way casual but that does not mean that it does not have to be fun. I do not think they need to change the game to make it more like WoW or LoTR. They can not compete in that space. Vanguard needs to stick to it's hardcore roots and embrace them. Hardcore does not mean that they need to keep all the bad stuff from EQ1 in the game however. The game can be hardcore and fun at the same time. Also, the game can be hardcore and made enjoyable by people who have grown older since EQ1 and don't have massive amounts of free time. Hardcore does not have to mean large time commitment.
The key is to figure out how to get groups going as fast as possible. Increase the XP across the board and expecially for groups and put in tools that will allow groups to happen quickly. This can include meeting stones, Call of the Hero type functionality, LDoN type instances, make Tanks and Healers uber so people play them, whatever. Vanguard shines in group play. The problem is that people do not get a chance to experience that to the fullest because of improper designs. Vanguard can fill the niche of being an extrememly fun grouping game where groups are easy to get. Not only will they maintain the current base of players but it will be the game that people come to after they get bored with the more casual games.
Fun = grouping. Grouping = fun. To me identifiying the solution is simple, however executing the solution will not be simple and may not be in time to save the game.
You know I play this game. I'll be the first one to step forward and tell you the game is in pretty bad shape currently. I've done as much in my review I did on the game. Now I know what the game is like but for some reason I think when someone post about a game the way the above poster did it makes you wonder did this person really play the game? You never see anyone or hear anyone ever? Really? LMAO! Runs terrible on your machine yet you say nothing about your systems specs?
As the person that started this thread I asked a specific question and made a little request about if Sigil should re-release the game and how they might go about doing it and ask others their input on how Sigil might do it, and what does the above poster do instead. Rants, BS's...and then advertises Lineage II. Totally disregarding the topic of the thread. I guess his reading comprehension is a little below average huh?
Nice. Thanks for totally derailing this thread and turning it into a slam Vanguard thread. God I swear some people. ::shakes her head::
OK I will answer your comments.
Yes, I play the game. I actually play it quite often, and I am level 22 on the Varking (Team PVP) server (with 3 alts of various levels). I was a guild leader in another game for 3 years, and we decided to move to Vanguard. Not only did my guild move from the other game, but we've also gotten several players from OTHER guilds to join us. Of course, we've also picked up a few players who we have never known before along the way. My point is this. I am NOT a casual gamer. I have absolutely no problem investing time in a worthwhile game.
On to other points. I did not feel like my post was bashing Vanguard. I made several points and also presented constructive ways that these points could be addressed. I also gave specific examples.
As far as my system specs, my main gaming machine almost matches the RECOMMENDED requirements for the game, and my other machine exceeds the RECOMMENDED requirements. Yes, I have played Vanguard on the computer in my living room, which allows me to run the game at High Quality with just a few minor tweaks. This is a really good machine. My machine in my bedroom, however, is where I prefer to do most of my gaming, and the system specs are not nearly as good as the machine in my living room. Now, I COULD upgrade my bedroom machine to somewhat be comensurate to the specs of my other machine. But why worrying about upgrading for graphics that just don't do it for me. Sorry, but I find the game to be bland.
I was not advertising Lineage 2. After 3 years, I left Lineage 2 to go to Vanguard. I have deleted Lineage 2 from both of my computers. I have no intention whatsoever of returning to Lineage 2. However, I was stating an opinion. Lineage 2 is much more graphically appealing to me in nearly every way over Vanguard . . . and it has much, much less performance demands.
I AM hopeful that Vanguard will go the way EQ2 did. When EQ2 came out, I gave it a shot (my 12 year old daughter still plays it). Initially, EQ2 ran very, very similarly on my machine to the way Vanguard is running now. However, as EQ2 was patched over the year, my performance increased to the point where I was EXTREMELY happy with the game's performance. Again, I hope this will be the same story for Vanguard.
As far as disgregarding the topic. The topic is abour "Re-release - Q4 - with expansion?". If you read my post, I quite clearly stated that the game was too big in its initial state. Quite frankly, it doesn't need an "expansion", it simply needs to "add what's missing". I really believe that initially, Vanguard should have been smaller and then built upon. This might have solved many of the problems that players are having with the game.
This game has potential, but I think it will be months before this potential is realized. I hope it IS realized, because I think I will enjoy this game. But I won't pay a subscription fee for a few months based on "potential". My money goes to the game who has had its potential realized. Right now Vanguard is NOT a good game, in my opinion. It's not bad, either. It's right on the bubble. I HOPE it gets a kick start and jumps up and proves me wrong. I want to be proven wrong.
Finally, as for the game's population. Last night I rode my mount from Tanvu to CB at 10pm eastern time. I did not see one person along the way, except for one pker I killed that was hanging out in Jalen's Crossing. I ran all the way up into CB to the banker, and I did not see ONE other person. This is not unusual. Perhaps it is just that Kojan is not very popular, but based on Kojan on Varking, this game is very, very sparsely populated.
OK...at least you ahd the curtesy of coming back and clearing things up. This is good. I am able to address one thing that I find funny. I can see why you hardly see or hear anyone now. Varking server? That says a lot right there. It is a PvP server.
Need not say any more.
Thanks for taking the time to come back and repost.
Er....you do know that in WOW, for just one example, I believe PVP servers account for almost 50% of the total...
Don't be hating on the PvP.... WAR is nothing but PVP, AOC promises lots of PVP fun, Darkfall...hardcore, FFA scream in pain PVP, and even LotRO has a form of PvP. (no, really, it does)
VG's PVP-free servers are actually sort of an anomoly.... and not the gaming "norm" (even WOW normal servers have consensual pvp)
If Varking is suffering in population because its a PVP server, blame the poorly implemented PvP system.... but not PvP in general...a substantial portion of the gaming population enjoys it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Give WoW its UI back.
Focus on making it Fun.
Focus on Exploration - VG's greatest asset is the huge world, allow the players to use it, explore it, and enjoy it.... SWG may have done this best in the past.
#1 thing they should remember is that you can be inspired by someone else's work and use their ideas, but improve on them when you do that.
I mean ok so there are only a few ways to organize a quest journal to make sense, or a ui to function, but that doesn't mean you have to rip off the color schemes, border colors and general feel of other games.
I thought for sure this was going to be my replacement for SWG. I am very disappointed.
If the game had launched last year with a 'normal' number of issues / bugs then I would have anticipated 2 expansion packs in 2007 this being the type of thing that EQ1 has done now for years.
Given the late launch and the fact that people were pulled off the expac just prior to launch (according to Brad) to work on said bugs then the first expac is probably late. I am sure they would like to launch 2 this year but reality will probably limit them to just a single expac probably for Thanksgiving. (May and November would have been my guess for 2 expacs.)
A consideration however will be how well VSoH has sold vs. how many boxes they manufactured. I am sure they would like to manufacture a combined pack/xpac for sale and sell the xpac directly as a download - less cost, more money.
Advertising - they probably won't have the money so it will be viral all the way and anything they can get for the xpac.
Cashflow will be the big issue for Sigil this year. And leaving aside the bugs there is no doubt in my mind that the average time people spend in a game is much shorter than it used to be in the EQ1 days with the possible exception of WoW. Simply the fact that there are more games around.
I wonder why you complain about people telling you to shut up, when almost every post u make is in the Vanguard forum saying that it sucks, or that "they blew it" or even that people who like Vanguard sucks and are just liars. And then, you dont mind telling everybody who like the game to "shut up" and they are just obsessed Vanboys... Do us a favor and go play you favorite game (i really wonder if someone like you likes anything at all)...
Sorry, about the rant but seeing the same person making the same posts bashing and trolling like a little kid in every vanguard post just makes me sick. Oh and btw did you try the game? I bet you didnt bother, since you know it sucks.
No real reason to answer. Its just "Vanguard fan reply No1 to any concern". If you really want a reply, go read any of the other 500 posts you talk about. Its in those, and you seem to have read all of them.
Da Vanguard defence list:
Your computer sucks.
You are a clueless hater.
No problems on my computer, you dont know what you talk about,
You have not played X hours
You have not made X level.
You do not know games, only those that like Vanguard know games.
You hate SOE
You are biased.
You work for WoW
You probably have a typo or grammatical error somewhere, which means... you dont know anything about games.
DAMNIT! I have to answer... must resist... nope. Sorry. Here it comes:
vanguard_hater.py
import random as r
def vanguard_hater():
"""vanguard_hater: a program to pluck a fits-all string from a list of standard responses and returns.
v1.0 : Installed and tested. -COR4X
"""
# Note: because I am a freakin nerd, this script actually works. Paste it into a python script and see. *sigh*
tVanHate = ["Your computer sucks too!", "You are a clueless fanboi!", "There are tons of problems on everyone's PC, you're a liar!",
"I played more than joooooooooo!", "I r higher lvl than u, nuuuber!",
"You do not know games, only people that hate vanlard know games!", "You lick the boots of SOE!", "You are biased",
"You work for Sigil!", "You probably have a typo or grammatical error somewhere, which means... you don't know anything about games."]
sReturn = random.choice(tVanHate)
return sReturn
In any event... the silly lobbing of easy retorts happens on both sides of the fence. Please "just say no" to stupid insult-hurling.
If you're going to insult someone, have some decorum, class, and subtlety about the matter!
It' might be to late for this game to make a come back. And when new players get into the game and really get a taste of what vanguard is really like,they wont like what they are tasting at all. Redoing this game well take to much money and this game needs all the money it can bring in from the huge drop in subs. And plus if they did have money to begin with they would have never came out with an mmo in this day and age in beta and pass it off to the customers as a finished game. Especially when theres are other mmo's out there on the market like wow eq2 and so on.How many ppl will give a game a second chance? So this topic is a cool one but i can't see them rewrapping this game and bringing out as a new one unless they sank some more money into this hole which frankly from a business stand point will be a bad investment. So what they will do is try as they might to make some money back on this investment by any means necessary. Example 1(DOUDLE XP WEEKEND #1) Example 2.(Double Xp weekend 2) did it work ? Expect more acts of desperation like this once they cont. to lose more and more subs trust me on that.
Aw well there will be others games out there but i hope the gaming industry takes notes at what happened to this game and stop trying to pull this kinda of crap on customers after all we have the last say in any game right? If we don't buy it they won't make it remember that. This game was based on many great idea but executed poorly if they has just taken they time on this one,it could have been a cut above the rest of the mmo's out there instead of just a cut
. NIce crafting system,Diplomacy is cool but really who plays an mmo for the crafting and the diplomacy system? 
FFxi Retired
Coh/Cov Retired
Guild Wars/Retired
WOW/(11-23-04/1-6-07)
VSOH/ retired
AOC/retired that was fast
Waiting 4 DCUO ,and FFXIV
Varking server and you cant find people? What time of day are you on, cause population has yet to be a problem for me- plenty to group with, plenty to kill.
Back on topic, anything like a re-release would be a mistake IMO, games get one shot at being new and VG has had its chance to make a first impression. Now they just have to work with what they have and hope they do as well as EQ2 did turning things around. Either way, the game will never be the success for the Sigil and $OE that it could have been.
I can't really say what VG needs I guess, because I don't know who the hell this game is made for. I read stuff written by the developer about the game a long time ago, his 'vision' or whatever. I remember thinking it looked like a list of everything I didn't want to play- A longer, slower, more pain-in-the-ass EQ2. After reading about the early release, I kinda followed along here, and while by far the tone was negative about the game a few things caught my eye. I mentioned the game in passing to a friend, he got the impression I was playing and went out and bought it, so I did to- expecting I was wasting my time and money while standing in line with it. Long story short, 30 days later we are still playing, and have had 3 more friends do the buddy trial and end up buying the game.
My point in all this is that according to the vision, I should hate the game. I never followed it or cared about its development, never applied for beta. The only games I've played for any serious amount of time are UO, SB, and pre-nge SWG- to me, everquest represented all that was wrong and evil in western MMO's, so the fact that it was made by the same people damn sure didn't win any points. Hell, I even use ATI and according to the game, thats not 'the way its meant to be played.' So if people like me enjoy the game, and the vanboys are starting to turn against it, what should they do? fuck if I know, but I'll play it while its fun.