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Meaningful PvP.. realy?
cupertino
Member Posts: 1,094
Ok this is not a flame post, Im looking forward to WAR but Im a little miffed about the PvP.. here goes.
Ok in WAR you can attack and capture enemy cities, from what I've read if the owner faction does not get its city back by beating back the invading faction the city is eventualy handed back to the owners anyway (AFAIK the way that is done has not be reveiled)..... so I ask what is in place to encourage players to realy fight for their city and to get it back? after all they know they'll get it back even if they do nothing and just kill turtles all day?
For me if a city is just given back to the owners after a while and you start over again it remove the meaning in the PvP for me, if I and my fellow d0rfs have been attacking a city for a week and we take the city, I wanna keep it. I want to hold that city untill the real owners organise and fight for it.
If the way in which a city is handed back can be fought against, then ok, such as the owners getting some NPC help such as seige teams who attack the city along with the PC's, and as time gones on more and more NPC help is offered, atleast that way we can fight to hold the city and not just wait for some event when the city is given back without blood shed.
discuss.
Ok in WAR you can attack and capture enemy cities, from what I've read if the owner faction does not get its city back by beating back the invading faction the city is eventualy handed back to the owners anyway (AFAIK the way that is done has not be reveiled)..... so I ask what is in place to encourage players to realy fight for their city and to get it back? after all they know they'll get it back even if they do nothing and just kill turtles all day?
For me if a city is just given back to the owners after a while and you start over again it remove the meaning in the PvP for me, if I and my fellow d0rfs have been attacking a city for a week and we take the city, I wanna keep it. I want to hold that city untill the real owners organise and fight for it.
If the way in which a city is handed back can be fought against, then ok, such as the owners getting some NPC help such as seige teams who attack the city along with the PC's, and as time gones on more and more NPC help is offered, atleast that way we can fight to hold the city and not just wait for some event when the city is given back without blood shed.
discuss.
Comments
Well, you're partially wrong, but I'l get to that. First, though, the reason people will fight back is because that would be the only Tier 4 RvR content available. When a side captures enemy territory, everything in that territory is locked down and the battle moves deeper into enemy lands. If the the city is under siege, then that's the only place to get your PvP on. (unless you skip town and head for another battlefront) Plus, you'll want to do everything in your power to prevent the invaders from grabbing loot, which is supposed to be especially juicy in besieged cities.
But you are wrong in assuming that the city is "just handed back to their owners" after a given time. The devs have hinted that if the siege goes on for too long, the side under attack gets "bonuses" to aid in taking back the city. They don't just get it back for free. These bonuses haven't been elaborated on, but speculation is that the NPC guards will get stronger, and players may get stronger and stronger buffs.
The truth is, any system that allows for "perminent" takeover of someone's territory would be too easily exploited. What if there are simply more Dwarfs on your server than there are Greenskins? It'd suck to play as a Greenskin, always having Dwarfs squating in your city and not being able to oust them. By givng the losing side some help in getting rid of the invaders, and resetting the overall conflict back to zero, the devs save themselves a headache of having to deal with one side holding the city indefinitely.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
On the other hand, will we see the towns ravaged by invaders (a visually if not structurally complete change of scenery, like it's done in the lvl 50 PvP zone in City of Heroes/Villains every time each side captures it), cities engulfed in flame, destroyed bridges, and so on? Or will everything just change color in your map and say "Chaos-controlled territory" (like I believe happens in WoW, but I've just been playing for a month) without it having twisted in appearance?
They've stated that defenders will get rewarded by their ruler for defending the city, the reward getting smaller the longer it takes to oust the attackers (presumably vanishing at some point).
They've stated that zones will change their appearance to some undefined extent if one side controls it - the example was a city being assaulted would stay ruined as long as the attacker maintained control - presumably talking about places like Barak Varr, but hopefully including capitals.
Actually what you describe is exactly what is gonna happen at least, so they say.
The more time the city is held by the attackers, the more NpC relief force come to help the defenders, until eventually the attackers will be kicked out. then the war reset and all start from scratch.... with the small particular that the enemy king/leader/boss will be in YOUR city in a humiliating position and you CAN THROW ROTTEN TOMATOES AT HIM!!!
That is as far as it can go and still keep a perpetual War going on (no fun if one side can win completely, then what?)
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Im sure there are some balancing issues involved with that, but it would be nice to see a PVP focused MMO reward PvP more than PvE (which in my opinion they are going to do with WAR).
Hope I'm right!
If they wouldn't get it back sooner or later it would be kinda lame. But if there's profit in taking the city ofc people are gonna try to get it back. Even if it weren't, they still would!
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
I would not fear because Mythic have made a mmorpg before which at times had great RVR-PVP in it.I think alot of people tend to forget that unlike WOW( i know i hate saying them words myself but alot of people have been brainwashed into thinking WOW PVP is the best it gets)Mythic know what RVR-PVP is.
Go check out DAOC RVR because for me there is no other mmorpg that can come close.
So you get loot and a lasting win, capture of a whole city (imagine taking over Ironforge in WoW). Bragging rights. I'm not really sure what else you want from your PvP. I guess just think of it as more meaningful than most PvP? To me, it sounds amazing. I can already hear my phone ringing as my friends call me to let me know one of our cities has been taken over.
More meaningful than anything else out there, anyway. In WoW, you merely farm honor points for your own benefit, and the PvP landscape never changes. You also have to remember that this RvR scheme in WAR is a tug-of-war. If both sides are fairly even, then it isn't going to be like the cities are stormed every other day. A side might be able to hold out for weeks, or even turn the enemy from their games and push them all the way back to thier city.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
At least thats how I see it ^_^
So you get loot and a lasting win, capture of a whole city (imagine taking over Ironforge in WoW). Bragging rights. I'm not really sure what else you want from your PvP. I guess just think of it as more meaningful than most PvP? To me, it sounds amazing. I can already hear my phone ringing as my friends call me to let me know one of our cities has been taken over. I don't know...you are probably right and for the type of game WAR will be it is more meaningful the anything else on the market. I guess I am just more used to concepts of sandbox mmorpgs.
WoW (kazlaz-horde) Gul'dan
It really is a shame that AV tactics became nothing but a zerg rush.
Anyway, aside from needing Victory Points from the instanced Scenarios (and to a lesser extent from random PvP encounters), both sides will have goals to complete in the non-instanced RvR zones. Capturing and holding key points, killing so many of the enemy and their NPCs, or completing competitive quests (like, Dwarfs need to heal wounded ally NPCs, while Greenskins have to kill the same NPCs).
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.