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Thanks Turbine/Codemasters for wrecking it all.

RedRabRedRab Member UncommonPosts: 280
in Lord of the Rings Online

http://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19175&highlight=codemasters

"If you are a European player and purchase the game from a retailer based in North America you will not be able to activate your Product Key on the Turbine billing system. The reverse is also true: Copies of LOTRO intended for the European market cannot be registered with Codemasters from a country outside of the territories they serve."

We were told we could import and play on any server and now this. You can kiss goodbye to my pre-order, for a game I was really looking forward to playing. And thanks for destroying it for all of us who have long established international guilds and friends worldwide.

This is a really smart move.......not. Thanks for the huge kick in the nuts. Un feckin' believable. Geez I didn't even mind paying for both versions, why block; who loses out? I see a lot of cancellations due to this short-sighted and deeply sad decision to split the MMO community.

http://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19215

“Hustlers of the world, there is one mark you cannot beat: the mark inside.”
― William S. Burroughs

«134

Comments

  • psyconiuspsyconius Member Posts: 272
    Eh.. at first I was mad about this and feeling for you...



    But talking to my WoW friends it is essentially the same thing with WoW.. The only way around it is to have someone in the US to be the billing account for you. If you get a US copy of WoW and have a EU billing address you will not be able to play just the same as LOTRO.



    I agree that isn't all that far, but latency issues do affect everyone so it isn't exactly unjust. Find a way around it, or boycott because of this grievance.

    --
    psyconius Cthulhu
    Gothika Studios

  • RedRabRedRab Member UncommonPosts: 280

    Originally posted by psyconius
    Eh.. at first I was mad about this and feeling for you...But talking to my WoW friends it is essentially the same thing with WoW.. The only way around it is to have someone in the US to be the billing account for you. If you get a US copy of WoW and have a EU billing address you will not be able to play just the same as LOTRO.I agree that isn't all that far, but latency issues do affect everyone so it isn't exactly unjust. Find a way around it, or boycott because of this grievance.

    This splits long established guilds in the community, of which there are a lot. It's unnecessary to ring-fence MMO players in this way. It goes against the whole spirit of MMORPGs. Do you realise just how many long established international guilds this will p*ss off? It's a seriously bad decision, one that may severely impact the game. The vast majority of MMOs do not restrict in this way.

    I also think I made it clear what action I will be taking when I stated 'You can kiss goodbye to my pre-order'. And I bet there will be many more like me with guild mates and friends worldwide pressing that cancel button over this unless they rethink it. It also would have been a good idea to make this announcement *before* the game went on sale and folks had ordered, wouldn't it? Entire guilds have ordered, and paid for, import copies. Anything that splits the community in this way is a bad bad move and should be resisted IMHO.

    “Hustlers of the world, there is one mark you cannot beat: the mark inside.”
    ― William S. Burroughs

  • RattrapRattrap Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 1,599
    Same thing with WOW ... and nobody is blaming them for doing it in the first place

    "Before this battle is over all the world will know that few...stood against many." - King Leonidas

  • mrdoublerrmrdoublerr Member Posts: 269
    Originally posted by psyconius

    Eh.. at first I was mad about this and feeling for you...



    But talking to my WoW friends it is essentially the same thing with WoW.. The only way around it is to have someone in the US to be the billing account for you. If you get a US copy of WoW and have a EU billing address you will not be able to play just the same as LOTRO.



    I agree that isn't all that far, but latency issues do affect everyone so it isn't exactly unjust. Find a way around it, or boycott because of this grievance.

    I live in the UK ,play wow on the US server and pay with my own card.

    and sadly there wont be any way around it. what a stupid idea... GG turbine

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,990
    Originally posted by psyconius

    But talking to my WoW friends it is essentially the same thing with WoW.. The only way around it is to have someone in the US to be the billing account for you. If you get a US copy of WoW and have a EU billing address you will not be able to play just the same as LOTRO.



    Wrong. While it is not possible to play WoW on US server with WoW EU account, nor the other way around, people are free to create account to any version of WoW they choose to play, and pay for it no matter what their address is and where they live in. Blizzard even offered people in EU an option to create account to WoW US with a box purchased from Europe containing European version after the game launched. Nowadays you need to purchase correct version of the game (and game cards if you use them) from some netstore wich ships worldwide, but that is the only restriction.

    Whereas in Lotro they at least claim to make technical restrictions preventing people playing at all if they live in wrong area. There is a huge diffirence.

     
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    Its a sad fact but latency is more important than catering to international guilds. It’s a tough reality, but you need to face up to it. I am sure one of the British guilds will welcome you.

    Just out of interest, I take it you are/were going to be a Dunlending?
  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by Vrika

    Originally posted by psyconius

    But talking to my WoW friends it is essentially the same thing with WoW.. The only way around it is to have someone in the US to be the billing account for you. If you get a US copy of WoW and have a EU billing address you will not be able to play just the same as LOTRO.



    Wrong. While it is not possible to play WoW on US server with WoW EU account, nor the other way around, people are free to create account to any version of WoW they choose to play, and pay for it no matter what their address is and where they live in. Blizzard even offered people in EU an option to create account to WoW US with a box purchased from Europe containing European version after the game launched. Nowadays you need to purchase correct version of the game (and game cards if you use them) from some netstore wich ships worldwide, but that is the only restriction.

    Whereas in Lotro they at least claim to make technical restrictions preventing people playing at all if they live in wrong area. There is a huge diffirence.

    That is incorrect. Blizzard recently changed the policy.  Nobody outside the United States is allowed to play on the US WoW servers. in fact, your not even allowed to play on the US servers when your on a vacation.
  • ManJunkManJunk Member Posts: 273
    You can't blame them for this decision.  No offense but I don't want to deal with your latency issues.
  • gpettgpett Member Posts: 1,105
    It has nothing to do with latency issues.



    When publishers/distributors license a game they have territorial rights to distribute the games to certain areas.  Since there are at the moment two distributos/publishers they have defined areas where they can and cannot sell the product.  Along with that comes billing and IP blocking issues for people outside of said distribution area.



    So, blame turbine for being greedy and wanting more money by licensing the game to more than one publisher/distributor.



    Lag, ping times, or latency has nothing to do with this discussion.
  • ManJunkManJunk Member Posts: 273
    Originally posted by gpett

    It has nothing to do with latency issues.



    When publishers/distributors license a game they have territorial rights to distribute the games to certain areas.  Since there are at the moment two distributos/publishers they have defined areas where they can and cannot sell the product.  Along with that comes billing and IP blocking issues for people outside of said distribution area.



    So, blame turbine for being greedy and wanting more money by licensing the game to more than one publisher/distributor.



    Lag, ping times, or latency has nothing to do with this discussion.
    I understand the OP's problem and honestly that does suck that he basically wasted his money.  On the flipside, I don't want him playing on US servers as the same goes for me.



    Get a reimbursement and "move along".
  • CerionCerion Member Posts: 1,005
    Originally posted by ManJunk

    You can't blame them for this decision.  No offense but I don't want to deal with your latency issues.
    Who says you have to do anything about their latency issues?  I've played in a PvP game for 3 years that had international subscriptions. Players from Finland battling players from Australia... Latency is a smoke screen and has nothing at all to do with the problem if there were a will to deal with it.

    _____________________________
    Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
    Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.

    Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.

    Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/

  • ManJunkManJunk Member Posts: 273
    And I've been gaming competitively for close to 2 decades and I completely disagree with you.



    There is no argument here, latency is an issue.
  • gpettgpett Member Posts: 1,105
    Originally posted by ManJunk

    And I've been gaming competitively for close to 2 decades and I completely disagree with you.



    There is no argument here, latency is an issue.
    It maybe an issue for computer games in general but it has nothing to do with why the original poster cannot play on the same servers as people in his international guild.



    It is purely a contractual issue between two publishers that licensed distribution rights in two seperate parts of the globe.
  • ManJunkManJunk Member Posts: 273
    Originally posted by gpett

    Originally posted by ManJunk

    And I've been gaming competitively for close to 2 decades and I completely disagree with you.



    There is no argument here, latency is an issue.
    It maybe an issue for computer games in general but it has nothing to do with why the original poster cannot play on the same servers as people in his international guild.



    It is purely a contractual issue between two publishers that licensed distribution rights in two seperate parts of the globe.

    Already stated that I understand the OP's problem and it's a raw deal.  I guess you're thinking I'm hijacking this thread.... i'll stop.



    Anyways....

    Turbine should probably think about opening an international server.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    I have played on US servers before, fabulous guilds, no one around though for a UK timezone. An international server would be a step forward, can’t think of a game where they one though?
  • peenkpeenk Member Posts: 270
    Originally posted by ManJunk

    And I've been gaming competitively for close to 2 decades and I completely disagree with you.



    There is no argument here, latency is an issue.
    The internet, generally, is getting faster, never slower.

    Been avid FPS fan I used to avoid European servers in Wolf ET like a plague until Verizon FIOS appeared in my area.  I live in NYC.  I have the cheapest service from Verizon FIOS and its comes out to $35/month for 5 megabit down and 2 megabit upload.  Let me tell you, 2 megabit upload changed a whole lot of things.  Before, I was using Time Warner's Earthlink/Roadrunner service and it has a limit of about 384KB upload. FIOS will get more widespread and will get even more faster because right now its not even being used to its full potential.



    Sounds like I am advertising? I am because I was able to enjoy servers ANYWHERE in the world without andy lag.  And finally my point is, latency is going to be a thing of the past soon enough and it depends if the MMO company is not cheap and uses GOOD servers and not recycled crap. 

    WTB Shadowbane 2
    image

  • BahzBahz Member UncommonPosts: 182
    If you just pay with a creditcard and import the game I'm sure you can play, I also did it with WoW in the beginning(before the EU version was out)...they just say it to try to get less ppl doing this. Think they want ppl to connect to servers which are close to them to avoid lag and stuff.
  • virtuellavirtuella Member UncommonPosts: 699
    Originally posted by ManJunk

    And I've been gaming competitively for close to 2 decades and I completely disagree with you.



    There is no argument here, latency is an issue.
    No it's not.

    I have been playing on US servers from Europe in almost all the 18 mmorpg's i have played and latency is not an issue what so ever.

    Most of the times we ping from 100-300 from Europe and that is by far good enough.



    This has something to do with Codemasters bought the rights for Europe and because of that they maded a deal so the european Customers can't play on US servers.

    Codemasters want to make sure they get all the european customers they can get.



    It's greedy and it's bad customerservice.

    ___________________________________________

    image

  • virtuellavirtuella Member UncommonPosts: 699
    Originally posted by Bahz

    If you just pay with a creditcard and import the game I'm sure you can play, I also did it with WoW in the beginning(before the EU version was out)...they just say it to try to get less ppl doing this. Think they want ppl to connect to servers which are close to them to avoid lag and stuff.
    No European Creditcards wont work.

    Both your billingadress and creditcard has to belong inside the US.





    You can maybe bend the rules by having an american friend to buy the game for you and monthly fee,but we don't know yet if Turbine is IP locking the servers.

    ___________________________________________

    image

  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,990
    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Originally posted by Vrika




    Wrong. While it is not possible to play WoW on US server with WoW EU account, nor the other way around, people are free to create account to any version of WoW they choose to play, and pay for it no matter what their address is and where they live in. Blizzard even offered people in EU an option to create account to WoW US with a box purchased from Europe containing European version after the game launched. Nowadays you need to purchase correct version of the game (and game cards if you use them) from some netstore wich ships worldwide, but that is the only restriction.
    Whereas in Lotro they at least claim to make technical restrictions preventing people playing at all if they live in wrong area. There is a huge diffirence.
    That is incorrect. Blizzard recently changed the policy.  Nobody outside the United States is allowed to play on the US WoW servers. in fact, your not even allowed to play on the US servers when your on a vacation.

    I think that you are lying, please post some proof about this policy change. And here's proof that is should still be possible:

    Official Blizzard post telling that is was still possible to connect to WoW EU from USA 02.16.2007: forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html

    WoW players on WoW USA forums telling that you can acces to WoW US from Europe 02.10.2007: forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html



     
  • HarafnirHarafnir Member UncommonPosts: 1,350
    Originally posted by ManJunk

    You can't blame them for this decision.  No offense but I don't want to deal with your latency issues.

     

    100mb cable, we have been 15 people playing US servers from Sweden since launch, to avoid those in Europe that refuse to use english (germans and french). No offense, but latency issues is a problem in your country, not here.

    "This is not a game to be tossed aside lightly.
    It should be thrown with great force"

  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    Originally posted by Vrika

    Originally posted by Gameloading

    Originally posted by Vrika




    Wrong. While it is not possible to play WoW on US server with WoW EU account, nor the other way around, people are free to create account to any version of WoW they choose to play, and pay for it no matter what their address is and where they live in. Blizzard even offered people in EU an option to create account to WoW US with a box purchased from Europe containing European version after the game launched. Nowadays you need to purchase correct version of the game (and game cards if you use them) from some netstore wich ships worldwide, but that is the only restriction.
    Whereas in Lotro they at least claim to make technical restrictions preventing people playing at all if they live in wrong area. There is a huge diffirence.
    That is incorrect. Blizzard recently changed the policy.  Nobody outside the United States is allowed to play on the US WoW servers. in fact, your not even allowed to play on the US servers when your on a vacation.

    I think that you are lying, please post some proof about this policy change. And here's proof that is should still be possible:

    Official Blizzard post telling that is was still possible to connect to WoW EU from USA 02.16.2007: forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html

    WoW players on WoW USA forums telling that you can acces to WoW US from Europe 02.10.2007: forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html



    Nevermind,I was wrong, It seems Blizzard already changed it again.



    This was the old ToS



    1. Eligibility.



    You represent that you reside in the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, or Singapore, and that you are an adult in your country of residence. You agree to these Terms of Use on behalf of yourself and, at your discretion, for one (1) minor child for whom you are a parent or guardian and whom you have authorized to use the account you create on the Service.



    And on December 11, 2006 Blizzard added this rule:





    4. Limitations on Your Use of the Service.



    A. You may only access the Service from within the territorial boundaries of the United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand or Singapore. Any access to your Account, whether by you or anyone else, from any location outside those countries is a breach of this Agreement.





    But in january 11 2007, The new rule on the Limitations on Your Use of the Service was removed, and eligibity was changed to this:



    1. Eligibility.



    You represent that you are an adult in your country of residence. You agree to these Terms of Use on behalf of yourself and, at your discretion, for one (1) minor child for whom you are a parent or guardian and whom you have authorized to use the account you create on the Service.



    current ToS can be found here:



    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.html
  • wykkid79wykkid79 Member Posts: 131

    I don't believe this is lag or latency related.  There's probably two driving factors in this.  One is the fact that Codemasters is running the game as both the Publisher and Service provider in EU.  That means they run the servers and collect billing revenues.  If half their customers jumped ship to go to the US servers it's not a very attractive financial deal for Codemasters.

    Second is the China Farmer.  Like it or not but this is one of the most effective ways of controlling the china farmer population.  And I'm all for it.  They absolutely destroy and destort the economy.  If a few EU players cancel their account because they are too selfish to understand that this is good for the game than... Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

  • nikoliathnikoliath Member UncommonPosts: 1,154
    I really hate it when publishers do this. NCsoft have a habbit of splitting the publishing between US/EU, it's simply unfair IMO. The very nature of the internet and MMOs is that you would have met people from all over the world and from all walks of life.



     It makes it often more expensive or risky for those outside the US that wish to play with old friends from inside the US. To play DDO with my long term friends and guild I had to purchase a stand alone key and download the client, with no garauntee that I wouldn't get ripped off. Or pay way over the odds and have the game imported.



    CoX did this which shafted me because my guild moved here after I did, offcourse they had US and I had a UK retail client/account.



    However, as long as the publisher can offer an online purchase for the region you require and offer digital distribution it's not a problem. It's when they prevent you from subscribing where you wish due to geographical location  that it's a real stinker.
  • nikoliathnikoliath Member UncommonPosts: 1,154
    Originally posted by wykkid79


    I don't believe this is lag or latency related.  There's probably two driving factors in this.  One is the fact that Codemasters is running the game as both the Publisher and Service provider in EU.  That means they run the servers and collect billing revenues.  If half their customers jumped ship to go to the US servers it's not a very attractive financial deal for Codemasters.
    Second is the China Farmer.  Like it or not but this is one of the most effective ways of controlling the china farmer population.  And I'm all for it.  They absolutely destroy and destort the economy.  If a few EU players cancel their account because they are too selfish to understand that this is good for the game than... Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
    They normaly split the rights of distribution and billing for financial reasons, including the ability to offer technical/billing support for your time zone ( or so they told us over at Auto Assault EU prior to release ).



    As for the farmers, if they can possibly get round the issue they will because they can make a crap load of £$£$£. Lastly, thats rather an unfriendly attitude. If you have been in the same guild for years and have many friends it's a real real blow to be excluded from playing with them because of where you live.
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