ROFL, how funny, dont tell me you guys still didnt realize that ccp is behind everything, from megacorps to moo. megacorps vs megacorps vs pirates, and everything run by ccp.
come on, its so obvious, thats the games content and ccp provides it...
I actually didn't. I admit it.
That said, just to pull the rope in the other direction - they aren't behind *everything* --- their are a couple of key points of corruption -- ISD seems to be a festering pussing infectious sore. The whole bug hunters group -- and I don't envy the difficulty around how to balance letting experience players in on what you are trying to solve bug wise, while also making sure that information isn't exploited...
And finally the Devs/GMs in the game who are aware of game defeciencies before they are patched. Where a typical user would need weeks on test server and a lot of luck to bump into an applicable exploit, an employee at CCP can realize one, then realize it technically hasn't been classified as an "exploit" yet, and then use it...
Then more difficult is trying the transfer of knowledge about upcoming changes... etc.
It's a difficult spot for CCP to be in. I don't think the road ahead of them is easy, but it is their road nonetheless. They need to raise the bar. They have choosen to do this isolated from the player community. Good for them. I am going to have to assume the worst until they start talking to us again. I hope they start talking soon. I like Eve. It's a great game.
ROFL, how funny, dont tell me you guys still didnt realize that ccp is behind everything, from megacorps to moo. megacorps vs megacorps vs pirates, and everything run by ccp.
come on, its so obvious, thats the games content and ccp provides it...
I actually didn't. I admit it.
That said, just to pull the rope in the other direction - they aren't behind *everything* --- their are a couple of key points of corruption -- ISD seems to be a festering pussing infectious sore. The whole bug hunters group -- and I don't envy the difficulty around how to balance letting experience players in on what you are trying to solve bug wise, while also making sure that information isn't exploited...
And finally the Devs/GMs in the game who are aware of game defeciencies before they are patched. Where a typical user would need weeks on test server and a lot of luck to bump into an applicable exploit, an employee at CCP can realize one, then realize it technically hasn't been classified as an "exploit" yet, and then use it...
Then more difficult is trying the transfer of knowledge about upcoming changes... etc.
It's a difficult spot for CCP to be in. I don't think the road ahead of them is easy, but it is their road nonetheless. They need to raise the bar. They have choosen to do this isolated from the player community. Good for them. I am going to have to assume the worst until they start talking to us again. I hope they start talking soon. I like Eve. It's a great game.
I think the people crying "they must be devs" buy the forum whoring propaganda as much as the bod fanbois (like LordSlater). If you've ever fought BoB in game you'll realize they aint nothing special, they're just like every other alliance out there. You do raids against them they won't engage you until they have 3 times your numbers, you do fleets against them and it's a blobbing contest.
However they do happen to show up right near the start of the caldari race, and they happen to know when delve is getting npc stations and complexes. The greatest thing that ever happened was a couple weeks after exodus hit and people got their ships refunded and molle whined on the forums like 2 year old about how that shouldn't happen.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it. Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
Oh noes I play EVE and I've got half a brain oh noes I'm a fanboi !
What happened between Ceep and Bobbie is how Lordslater described it.
The only thing he didn't say was that this created a witchhunt. Rumors started to spread, suddenly everybody was a GM and and as you can imagine, lit half the idiots and irrationals fuses on fire.
This was put down by CCP easely by simply locking/deleting all those topics with false accusations, claims of the impossible, etc.
Like for example, BOB has priority access when a node goes back online after a crash, they are all allowed to log in first, and then the others (the enemy). I laughed, I've done this myself several times. When a node goes poof you need to get back into the game, well d'uh.
The game (node) only allows 1OOO people logging at start. At this point you have one fleet going "What shall we do, are we logging back in, is the FC (fleet commander) online already, who's gonna startup the gang, are we logging back in, what we gonna do, help, mommy....
On the other side, you have BOB, with their hired mercs the MC, so you have about a thousand wild dogs, pro mercs, hitting their mouses with everything they've got "Let me in, start the thing up ,let me in, reboot , aaargh" the moment one one them is allowed in, he screams over the voice coms "IN IN IN', now 1000 players are logging in. Result : 800 vs 1. Ouch. THAT is BOB.
Or the rumor of how they can pop their titan weapon so fast in a row, it's called logistics, or perhaps they have two, they got the resources for about ten or the funny claims of the cyno fields, another BOB conspiracy.
Are you surprised that a company on a certain moment says "enough" ?
Yes something wrong happened, but that does not mean they should let people roll over them and just start spreading not just rumors but totally false utter lies at some points.
Are you surprised that they actually ban that people the continue this witchhunt.
Are you surprised that those people will use other forums to spread their lies and their "anti CCP" propaganda with the excuse of "freedom of speech". /me waves at Ashton993.
As far as the Kugu situation, he hacked peoples pc's and threw their rl identity out on the goddamn internet, man, dude, ffs.
If I was any of his victims, either an CCP employee or customer, I'd go for a name change, first and last. And that don't come cheap.
I'm not going say what I want to say because I've never sworn to "hurt" somebody over the internet and I'm not sure what MMORPG.com says about it, but if someone would trow my rl info over the internet to get an advantage in a game ... let's just say GAME OVER !
Sirmolle, he should get a medal and a lifetime free sub.
I find this all rather amusing. On one hand you have the kool-aid drinking fanboi's. And on the other you have the fringe dwelling tin-foil hats.
I'm rather in the middle myself. I do think CCP has made mistakes, and I don't think they will correct them without someone policing them. History has shown they won't do it themselves. In a situation like that Kug provides some actual value.
But, I don't think the game itself is broken, maybe content anemic, but not broken. Those most affected by this affair were in many cases at some of the end-content of the game anyway and could recover from their losses (even though it might not be exactly fair to expect them to).
For the average player, they never felt the wind blow.
I think the outrage over the initial incident was justified, it was handled badly. I do think the newer accusations that come out every week are just Kug's attempt to "get back" at CCP though. I have yet to see anything wrong with anything being reported since the T20 incident. If I was in Kug's place, I'd certainly do the same thing, but I think he's grasping at straws now. He did a service to the community, bringing out this corruption, but he did indeed deserve his ban.
CCP did a horrible job in handling T20 incident. It's very hard to believe that none of the real decision-makers couldn't be reached and the task to punish T20 for breaching a corp. ethical code had fallen onto a group of interns (btw, similar offense in any normal corporation leads to a very quick termination of service notice). Probably T20 received a slap on the wrist and was told that he was a bad boy. Without Kug, CCP would have successfully have covered this up. I played Eve for 2 years and I can't believe that T20 case is the only one. I heard lots of rumors, several things I've seen myself. Most of the time the most mysterious things were taking place when ATUK (now DICE) or BoB were in the neighborhood. I can't prove anything though and I'll leave it as just some X-files style mystery.
Banning Kug was another mistake by CCP. Afaik, he did nothing wrong towards CCP as a company, unless of course BoB is CCP branch. CCP has no rights to ban anyone because that person is a criminal or is a suspect, CCP is not the court of law and not the police. They should take care of Eve and Eve alone. It looks some ppl in Iceland were so outraged by Kug's revelations that they could not restrain from banning Kug from Eve for a suspicion of an out of game crime. It just shows that CCP originally intended to keep everything under the thick carpet of lies and denial.
I find this all rather amusing. On one hand you have the kool-aid drinking fanboi's. And on the other you have the fringe dwelling tin-foil hats.
This made me laugh, even though I suspect I would be grouped in with the "fringe dwelling tin-foil hat" wearing types.
I guess at the end of the day it all boils down to this - your gut. I don't trust CCP. I don't think that they are in control of everything as some of my tinfoil brethern claim. Likewise, I don't think that they all sit around a board room table laughing at how they can pull another one over on us.
I do think that it is very difficult for them to successfully administer their game without letting a large number of people "in the know." And I do know that large numbers of people "in the know" lead to small numbers of people abusing their power.
CCP is in a catch 22. They need employees to run their game. They need to give these employees power/information. Along a long enough timeline some employees will abuse their power. Fanbois seem to think that CCP has created some kind of wonderous screening process in their hiring which weeds out all human beings that ever sucumb to temptation... heh... only in Iceland I suppose.
So, since I assume CCP employees are human, and some of them will succumb to temptation along a long enough timeline, the only thing I have left is my *trust* that CCP when they deal with these issues will deal with them in a way that I find to be reasonable to the trust I put in them (And also available - because it seems that the fanboi's still believe that all of the executive were on vacation with dead cell phones... )....
That is my problem with this. I don't trust CCP to handle these situations when they arise again.
Any Fanboi saying that CCP will never have another employee make another bad judgement call is setting CCP up for disaster. It will happen because people aren't perfect. They only thing CCP can do is have the communication skills with the community to deal with it well. And it seems they are still doing the turtle thing. Let's see how well this works for them when their next issue crops up (either through Kug or through anyone else - no one can stop it - it will happen)....
Banning Kug was another mistake by CCP. Afaik, he did nothing wrong towards CCP as a company, unless of course BoB is CCP branch. CCP has no rights to ban anyone because that person is a criminal or is a suspect, CCP is not the court of law and not the police. They should take care of Eve and Eve alone. It looks some ppl in Iceland were so outraged by Kug's revelations that they could not restrain from banning Kug from Eve for a suspicion of an out of game crime. It just shows that CCP originally intended to keep everything under the thick carpet of lies and denial.
Dont forget that long before KUG discovered the T20 stuff he made eve cash by hiring out his hacking skills to Corps/Alliances. Basically he would be hired to hack his customers enermys servers and his/her account to find alliance posts and such what. He did this a lot and this was how he found out about the T20 thing. When asked by a senior GM how he got this info he told the GM what he did as a EvE job [hacking].
After due consideration it was decided that hacking the EvE servers repeatedly was against the EULA and they decided to Perma-Ban him from eve. As for sir mole hacking KUG's server and posting his details Id say the main reason he didnt get banned was because it wasant an eve server and KUG wasant a subscriber then as he was banned.
Saying that tho the way CCP handled themselves showed that there internal rules and procedures was not exactly up to scratch. Its just as well tho that This MAY be avoided in future witht he new rules and procedured that they have placed and the semi-independent Watchdog they have now.
Kug didn't hack a CCP server, he was getting forum info from corp/alliance/enemy databases on their private/shared servers (not owned or operated by ccp). How he did so is not of concern, but if you insist he broke a law in doing so, please post the criminal complaint on record for the offense you claimed happened.
There is no rule that one can not do "anything" outside of the game...thats real life, not within CCP's rule.
Kug was banned for posting RL information of a player, same rule Sir Molle broke shortly after....and we all know who was and was not banned for that rule violation.
and the favoritism keeps rolling along
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
There is no proof of him hacking EVE's server or player accounts... he have stated himself to his letter to Kieron that he would NOT hack CCP's servers or game accounts.
He did get banned (and CCP have even stated that they banned him but not why), but he posted info about him being banned because 1) Revealing real life information about SirMolle, and 2) costing CCP money (don't exactly remember what it said there).
Now ... SirMolle did reveal real life information about the hacker... why where not SirMolle punished by other than a warning ? Rod B. have stated that CCP used that just as a excuse... that there is other reasons for CCP to ban the hacker.
Why do he know so much about the incident ? because Rod is part of BoB ?, Rod also said that SirMolle only did get a warning for posting real life information about the hacker on the forums.
There is clear that CCP do favorism parts of EVE-Community over others... and CCP have really only one way to come clean on this... ban SirMolle, punish economically BoB... and the new head of IA ... yeah you know that is the same guy who desided that the tainted bpo's where not worth removing for up to 8 months ???? what did he get for his mistake ? ... a promotion.
Dont forget that long before KUG discovered the T20 stuff he made eve cash by hiring out his hacking skills to Corps/Alliances. Basically he would be hired to hack his customers enermys servers and his/her account to find alliance posts and such what. He did this a lot and this was how he found out about the T20 thing. When asked by a senior GM how he got this info he told the GM what he did as a EvE job [hacking]. After due consideration it was decided that hacking the EvE servers repeatedly was against the EULA and they decided to Perma-Ban him from eve. As for sir mole hacking KUG's server and posting his details Id say the main reason he didnt get banned was because it wasant an eve server and KUG wasant a subscriber then as he was banned. Saying that tho the way CCP handled themselves showed that there internal rules and procedures was not exactly up to scratch. Its just as well tho that This MAY be avoided in future witht he new rules and procedured that they have placed and the semi-independent Watchdog they have now.
As you are so fond of saying - where is you proof LordSlater?
Point of the day is this: CCP will always have employees who abuse the rules because CCP have employees who are human. What makes or breaks CCP is their ability to handle those instances when they arise and communicate with their clients.
As seen with this past instance, and pretty well universally agreed upon (even by the Fanboi's) is that they handled it like Dog poo. Sure, there are many grandeous plans on how it will be better in the future and all that, but the proof is in the pudding.
Communication continues to be suck. CCP has taken to ignoring it and hoping it will go away. Well, maybe it will, maybe it won't. I suppose only time will tell. As long as people like the OP continue to post questions like "what happened" and people like me are willing to explain it, and people like you, Lord Slater, are willing to drink Kool Aid and defend CCP, well, I suppose it won't be dying any time soon. In that sense I find it kind of amusing that by continuing to post you are part of CCPs problem.
Personally, I think the banning of Kug had nothing to do with his actions regarding posting of private info or "costing" CCP money.
The real reason was CCP had a pat excuse to bad someone who they felt would be a threat to the integrity of their servers, nothing more. Kug is a known and accomplished hacker, they felt at risk and used this opportunity to ban him from the game.
Now, I see this as pure speculation at best by CCP. They hand no "proof" that Kug would ever hack into CCP's servers. They just had the "feeling" that an opportunity might arise where he would. So, they jumped at the chance to shut down this possible scenario.
Personally, I think the banning of Kug had nothing to do with his actions regarding posting of private info or "costing" CCP money.
The real reason was CCP had a pat excuse to bad someone who they felt would be a threat to the integrity of their servers, nothing more. Kug is a known and accomplished hacker, they felt at risk and used this opportunity to ban him from the game.
Now, I see this as pure speculation at best by CCP. They hand no "proof" that Kug would ever hack into CCP's servers. They just had the "feeling" that an opportunity might arise where he would. So, they jumped at the chance to shut down this possible scenario.
Except that banning him from playing the game doesn't do anything to stop him from attacking their servers.
Personally, I think the banning of Kug had nothing to do with his actions regarding posting of private info or "costing" CCP money.
The real reason was CCP had a pat excuse to bad someone who they felt would be a threat to the integrity of their servers, nothing more. Kug is a known and accomplished hacker, they felt at risk and used this opportunity to ban him from the game.
Now, I see this as pure speculation at best by CCP. They hand no "proof" that Kug would ever hack into CCP's servers. They just had the "feeling" that an opportunity might arise where he would. So, they jumped at the chance to shut down this possible scenario.
Except that banning him from playing the game doesn't do anything to stop him from attacking their servers.
Better than doing nothing i suppose. Frankly arguing about this is getting rpetty pointless as we will have the fanbois who love the game and the EvE haters who hate the game. It seems the argument is nolonger really about what happened and more about Poking a dead horse. Below ill post just the facts.
T20 was caught 7 months before the main event.
He was punished by a support team.
The main staff members were on holiday abroad.
The 10 bluprints in question were kept for 7 months and 'Discovered'.
Kugs Posted confidential info on T20's Account info [breaking the EULA]
Kug was banned so therefore not part of eve anymore.
Now im not to clear what ahppened here but for some reason Sir mole posted info on KUG's real life reveiling his chriminal past and present he wasant banned because KUG was not a member of EvE and not protected under the relivent sections of the EULA.
Kug begins posting DEV and GM personall details at random even if they did noting wrong [this is where i lose any respect for KUG].
There you a go a brief very rough timeline and of course it shows why sir mole may have not been banned and a possable reason why KUG was. reason being that kug while being a member posted account details of a eve member under the EULAS protection. And sir mole did the same when KUG was nolonger a member of eve and ttherefore not a member of eve.
Personally, I think the banning of Kug had nothing to do with his actions regarding posting of private info or "costing" CCP money.
The real reason was CCP had a pat excuse to bad someone who they felt would be a threat to the integrity of their servers, nothing more. Kug is a known and accomplished hacker, they felt at risk and used this opportunity to ban him from the game.
Now, I see this as pure speculation at best by CCP. They hand no "proof" that Kug would ever hack into CCP's servers. They just had the "feeling" that an opportunity might arise where he would. So, they jumped at the chance to shut down this possible scenario.
Except that banning him from playing the game doesn't do anything to stop him from attacking their servers. Good point, I think that may have inflamed him to the point of doing it.
And I agree it's a dead horse. Your not likely to get more out CCP on this issue. It would take something really earth shattering to get further response out of them. And with a community that is jaded over the whole thing ... it would take something earth shattering to make them even care.
this thread is Europe vs USA if you look at locations, with about 2 exceptions, not counting people that seem neutral.
RUMSFELD!!!!
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You? if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it. Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
one dev account was disclosed to the public (one of many ccp employees in BoB)
Said dev gave many things to his buddies, but sadly, some were illicit goods and info (t2 bpo's, exploitable flaws of the game and how too use them, time and place for ccp driven events...that nobody else was privy too, etc, etc..list is huge)All he did troll was give BPO's
CCP staff decided to do NOTHING about the cheating (even though they had a rule to fire employees that did such with their power, ask the gm's and other ccp staff that were fired prior to the dev scandal).Err most of the experienced staff were on holiday and he was punished troll
When the public was made aware of the misdeeds, it was also discovered that ccp left the t2 bpo's in BoB's hands for 8 months,7 months to use and benefit from (billlllllllions of isk worth of benefit, 100's of billions Really? and how did you find that out lol), ccp set off on a cover-up mission, and the whitewash sales skyrocketed at their local hardware store (not to mention the huge number of smoke machines ccp must have purchased)
CCP then banned the person that exposed them, for a breech of the rules on posting a players personal info, and then BoB's leader Sir Molle did the same...ccp did nothing to S.M.....showing favoritism for their buddies yet again. Difference is Sir molly didnt post personall info of ccp staff members and didnt ahck corperate accounts.
CCP was then exposed for allowing their buddies (BoB) to use exploits...so they called them undocumented features (who cares that others were banned in the past for using "undocumented features") Real Proof pls
CCP then went nuts and started to censor and threaten players that discussed the misdeeds of ccp on not only their forums, but on any forum their censor nazi team found that had negitive things to say about ccp. Err more like stopping 100,s of random threads forming about the same subject and forming an official one for us to read and write in.
so the whole thing ends up with CCP having lied, cheated, exploited, and showing favor for BoB, over all others in the game...
The players that count (not the sheeple) are wanting ccp to enforce the rules that were already in place, which would mean;
fire t20 cant do that double jepardy
ban Sir Molle Why?
ban those that took advantage of the illicit t2 bpo's and any other cheat, remove the isk gained from BoB and the players accounts. Cant be done and the reason should be obvious.
I am sure there are more things, but honestly think most would settle for the bans and removal of the gained isk and items the cheats provided...just something other then smoke being blown up our arses, something that shows ccp wants us to trust them again.
Well i see the troll has returned from his tempory forum ban welcome back. This forum almost returned to normal.
lordslater, i assume from your reply your a fanboi of eve, which isnt a bad thing. yes the above content needs to be proven, your point there is well taken.
what will never settle down is where there is one there are many, and excuses like the whole ccp staff was on vacation (which they werent at the time, only a few fill ins, you can get this info from the dev blogs) just dont fly. always remember that in eve (whether one or many) the dev(s) cheated, have cheated, are continuing to cheat, manipulate their creation and their vision for their profit and enjoyment.
hackers deserve no less than casteration on a side note.
i left eve because of the "criminal activity" that was rumored months ago about this, and then it blew up. after all how can you play a game where this stuff is occurring and you can do nothing about it, imagine if that asshack hadnt hacked, the high level status quo would still be in place, unfair advantage, manipulation at that high level, who is to say it isnt still occurring for the pet corp of CCP?. so put out opinions of support, for or against, but always remember the fluff will continue to come as CCP desperately tries to put this behind them and manipulate the media to help them repair that which was lost, i think we call it TRUST.
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
I just wanna say, Dev. scandal aside, the lvl of community interaction and depth in this game is pretty amazing.
I know of no other game were this sort of intrigue is possible.
I tried Eve a few years back and it wasn't my cup of tea at the time, but I gotta give it to CCP. They've done one hell of a job creating such a community rich game.
This sort of thing makes me want to give the game another go. I may reactivate at the end of the week, pretty sick of the EQ model at the moment.
lordslater, i assume from your reply your a fanboi of eve, which isnt a bad thing. yes the above content needs to be proven, your point there is well taken. are many, aAnd notice how basically replied to my comment of prove it witht he reply of proov it [rolls eyes] what will never settle down is where there is one there nd excuses like the whole ccp staff was on vacation (which they werent at the time, only a few fill ins, you can get this info from the dev blogs) just dont fly. always remember that in eve (whether one or many) the dev(s) cheated, have cheated, are continuing to cheat, manipulate their creation and their vision for their profit and enjoyment. I thought i read a dev blog stating they were on vacation? hackers deserve no less than casteration on a side note. i left eve because of the "criminal activity" that was rumored months ago about this, and then it blew up. after all how can you play a game where this stuff is occurring and you can do nothing about it, imagine if that asshack hadnt hacked, the high level status quo would still be in place, unfair advantage, manipulation at that high level, who is to say it isnt still occurring for the pet corp of CCP?. so put out opinions of support, for or against, but always remember the fluff will continue to come as CCP desperately tries to put this behind them and manipulate the media to help them repair that which was lost, i think we call it TRUST.
Better than doing nothing i suppose. Frankly arguing about this is getting rpetty pointless as we will have the fanbois who love the game and the EvE haters who hate the game. It seems the argument is nolonger really about what happened and more about Poking a dead horse. Below ill post just the facts.What about Eve haters who hate what they did but love the game? Huh? huh? How does that fit into the mode Fanboi? Seriously, I don't think anyone but you sees the issue as this black and white... do you really see CCP as completely faultless and Kug as the embodiment of evil, or have you just been defending your point so long that you find you have no humility/ability to admit that maybe the truth isn't so easily defined? I for one thing Kug is despicable. But I for one am also glad that he did what he did or else BOB would still have said BPOs!!! T20 was caught 7 months before the main event. He was punished by a support team. I think they were the janitorial staff, I can't find the source on that right now. The main staff members were on holiday abroad. Hellmar and the executive team were unfortunately victims of a plane crash on an island populated by natives called "Others" and strange technology left over by something called the Dharma project. They were hence unreachable by any forms of modern communication equipment. Go figure. It is all well documented here: http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index The 10 bluprints in question were kept for 7 months and 'Discovered'. Just for clarification, because it seems that your words obfuscate the truth here: The 10 blueprints were left, by CCP, in the possesion of the people that were profitting from the blue prints ill-gotten gain for 10 months -- and then KUG spoke up about it --- AND ONLY THEN were they removed. Fanboi. Kugs Posted confidential info on T20's Account info [breaking the EULA] Now, I'm really tempted to call BS on this one. I have just looked through the EULA, and I have read nothing that says, "you must keep CCP identity quiet." In fact, I have read a lot about how CCP can't guarantee that anything is kept quiet. I'm not going to call BS, because I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see this clause.
Didnt a former gm get fired because he spawn a bunch of faction stuff and went into 0.0, and that he banned the account of the pirate(s?) who blew him up?
i also think sirmolle should have been punished for posting information on another player in the forum, sorry but i dont like people publicly giving away personal information
Soooo what you say here Lordslater is that SirMolle is CCP staff ??? yeah that must be it, because in your word you say that Kug got banned because he revealed real life information about SirMolle, while SirMolle did not get banned because Kug is not a member of CCP.
Now ... you do know that Kug did NOT reveal any real life information about any CCP staff members, and in Kug's own word he did get banned because of 2 things.... 1) Revealing real life information about a player on the official forums, and 2) costing CCP money (don't remember exact how this was written).
Comments
I actually didn't. I admit it.
That said, just to pull the rope in the other direction - they aren't behind *everything* --- their are a couple of key points of corruption -- ISD seems to be a festering pussing infectious sore. The whole bug hunters group -- and I don't envy the difficulty around how to balance letting experience players in on what you are trying to solve bug wise, while also making sure that information isn't exploited...
And finally the Devs/GMs in the game who are aware of game defeciencies before they are patched. Where a typical user would need weeks on test server and a lot of luck to bump into an applicable exploit, an employee at CCP can realize one, then realize it technically hasn't been classified as an "exploit" yet, and then use it...
Then more difficult is trying the transfer of knowledge about upcoming changes... etc.
It's a difficult spot for CCP to be in. I don't think the road ahead of them is easy, but it is their road nonetheless. They need to raise the bar. They have choosen to do this isolated from the player community. Good for them. I am going to have to assume the worst until they start talking to us again. I hope they start talking soon. I like Eve. It's a great game.
I actually didn't. I admit it.
That said, just to pull the rope in the other direction - they aren't behind *everything* --- their are a couple of key points of corruption -- ISD seems to be a festering pussing infectious sore. The whole bug hunters group -- and I don't envy the difficulty around how to balance letting experience players in on what you are trying to solve bug wise, while also making sure that information isn't exploited...
And finally the Devs/GMs in the game who are aware of game defeciencies before they are patched. Where a typical user would need weeks on test server and a lot of luck to bump into an applicable exploit, an employee at CCP can realize one, then realize it technically hasn't been classified as an "exploit" yet, and then use it...
Then more difficult is trying the transfer of knowledge about upcoming changes... etc.
It's a difficult spot for CCP to be in. I don't think the road ahead of them is easy, but it is their road nonetheless. They need to raise the bar. They have choosen to do this isolated from the player community. Good for them. I am going to have to assume the worst until they start talking to us again. I hope they start talking soon. I like Eve. It's a great game.
I agree with that!However they do happen to show up right near the start of the caldari race, and they happen to know when delve is getting npc stations and complexes. The greatest thing that ever happened was a couple weeks after exodus hit and people got their ships refunded and molle whined on the forums like 2 year old about how that shouldn't happen.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
What happened between Ceep and Bobbie is how Lordslater described it.
The only thing he didn't say was that this created a witchhunt. Rumors started to spread, suddenly everybody was a GM and and as you can imagine, lit half the idiots and irrationals fuses on fire.
This was put down by CCP easely by simply locking/deleting all those topics with false accusations, claims of the impossible, etc.
Like for example, BOB has priority access when a node goes back online after a crash, they are all allowed to log in first, and then the others (the enemy). I laughed, I've done this myself several times. When a node goes poof you need to get back into the game, well d'uh.
The game (node) only allows 1OOO people logging at start. At this point you have one fleet going "What shall we do, are we logging back in, is the FC (fleet commander) online already, who's gonna startup the gang, are we logging back in, what we gonna do, help, mommy....
On the other side, you have BOB, with their hired mercs the MC, so you have about a thousand wild dogs, pro mercs, hitting their mouses with everything they've got "Let me in, start the thing up ,let me in, reboot , aaargh" the moment one one them is allowed in, he screams over the voice coms "IN IN IN', now 1000 players are logging in. Result : 800 vs 1. Ouch. THAT is BOB.
Or the rumor of how they can pop their titan weapon so fast in a row, it's called logistics, or perhaps they have two, they got the resources for about ten or the funny claims of the cyno fields, another BOB conspiracy.
Are you surprised that a company on a certain moment says "enough" ?
Yes something wrong happened, but that does not mean they should let people roll over them and just start spreading not just rumors but totally false utter lies at some points.
Are you surprised that they actually ban that people the continue this witchhunt.
Are you surprised that those people will use other forums to spread their lies and their "anti CCP" propaganda with the excuse of "freedom of speech". /me waves at Ashton993.
As far as the Kugu situation, he hacked peoples pc's and threw their rl identity out on the goddamn internet, man, dude, ffs.
If I was any of his victims, either an CCP employee or customer, I'd go for a name change, first and last. And that don't come cheap.
I'm not going say what I want to say because I've never sworn to "hurt" somebody over the internet and I'm not sure what MMORPG.com says about it, but if someone would trow my rl info over the internet to get an advantage in a game ... let's just say GAME OVER !
Sirmolle, he should get a medal and a lifetime free sub.
I'm rather in the middle myself. I do think CCP has made mistakes, and I don't think they will correct them without someone policing them. History has shown they won't do it themselves. In a situation like that Kug provides some actual value.
But, I don't think the game itself is broken, maybe content anemic, but not broken. Those most affected by this affair were in many cases at some of the end-content of the game anyway and could recover from their losses (even though it might not be exactly fair to expect them to).
For the average player, they never felt the wind blow.
Banning Kug was another mistake by CCP. Afaik, he did nothing wrong towards CCP as a company, unless of course BoB is CCP branch. CCP has no rights to ban anyone because that person is a criminal or is a suspect, CCP is not the court of law and not the police. They should take care of Eve and Eve alone. It looks some ppl in Iceland were so outraged by Kug's revelations that they could not restrain from banning Kug from Eve for a suspicion of an out of game crime. It just shows that CCP originally intended to keep everything under the thick carpet of lies and denial.
This made me laugh, even though I suspect I would be grouped in with the "fringe dwelling tin-foil hat" wearing types.
I guess at the end of the day it all boils down to this - your gut. I don't trust CCP. I don't think that they are in control of everything as some of my tinfoil brethern claim. Likewise, I don't think that they all sit around a board room table laughing at how they can pull another one over on us.
I do think that it is very difficult for them to successfully administer their game without letting a large number of people "in the know." And I do know that large numbers of people "in the know" lead to small numbers of people abusing their power.
CCP is in a catch 22. They need employees to run their game. They need to give these employees power/information. Along a long enough timeline some employees will abuse their power. Fanbois seem to think that CCP has created some kind of wonderous screening process in their hiring which weeds out all human beings that ever sucumb to temptation... heh... only in Iceland I suppose.
So, since I assume CCP employees are human, and some of them will succumb to temptation along a long enough timeline, the only thing I have left is my *trust* that CCP when they deal with these issues will deal with them in a way that I find to be reasonable to the trust I put in them (And also available - because it seems that the fanboi's still believe that all of the executive were on vacation with dead cell phones... )....
That is my problem with this. I don't trust CCP to handle these situations when they arise again.
Any Fanboi saying that CCP will never have another employee make another bad judgement call is setting CCP up for disaster. It will happen because people aren't perfect. They only thing CCP can do is have the communication skills with the community to deal with it well. And it seems they are still doing the turtle thing. Let's see how well this works for them when their next issue crops up (either through Kug or through anyone else - no one can stop it - it will happen)....
Cheers. And get you butt in gear CCP!
Dont forget that long before KUG discovered the T20 stuff he made eve cash by hiring out his hacking skills to Corps/Alliances. Basically he would be hired to hack his customers enermys servers and his/her account to find alliance posts and such what. He did this a lot and this was how he found out about the T20 thing. When asked by a senior GM how he got this info he told the GM what he did as a EvE job [hacking].
After due consideration it was decided that hacking the EvE servers repeatedly was against the EULA and they decided to Perma-Ban him from eve. As for sir mole hacking KUG's server and posting his details Id say the main reason he didnt get banned was because it wasant an eve server and KUG wasant a subscriber then as he was banned.
Saying that tho the way CCP handled themselves showed that there internal rules and procedures was not exactly up to scratch. Its just as well tho that This MAY be avoided in future witht he new rules and procedured that they have placed and the semi-independent Watchdog they have now.
Kug didn't hack a CCP server, he was getting forum info from corp/alliance/enemy databases on their private/shared servers (not owned or operated by ccp). How he did so is not of concern, but if you insist he broke a law in doing so, please post the criminal complaint on record for the offense you claimed happened.
There is no rule that one can not do "anything" outside of the game...thats real life, not within CCP's rule.
Kug was banned for posting RL information of a player, same rule Sir Molle broke shortly after....and we all know who was and was not banned for that rule violation.
ccp the "we cheat for our buddies and are proud of it" company...
There is no proof of him hacking EVE's server or player accounts... he have stated himself to his letter to Kieron that he would NOT hack CCP's servers or game accounts.
He did get banned (and CCP have even stated that they banned him but not why), but he posted info about him being banned because 1) Revealing real life information about SirMolle, and 2) costing CCP money (don't exactly remember what it said there).
Now ... SirMolle did reveal real life information about the hacker... why where not SirMolle punished by other than a warning ? Rod B. have stated that CCP used that just as a excuse... that there is other reasons for CCP to ban the hacker.
Why do he know so much about the incident ? because Rod is part of BoB ?, Rod also said that SirMolle only did get a warning for posting real life information about the hacker on the forums.
There is clear that CCP do favorism parts of EVE-Community over others... and CCP have really only one way to come clean on this... ban SirMolle, punish economically BoB... and the new head of IA ... yeah you know that is the same guy who desided that the tainted bpo's where not worth removing for up to 8 months ???? what did he get for his mistake ? ... a promotion.
As you are so fond of saying - where is you proof LordSlater?
Point of the day is this: CCP will always have employees who abuse the rules because CCP have employees who are human. What makes or breaks CCP is their ability to handle those instances when they arise and communicate with their clients.
As seen with this past instance, and pretty well universally agreed upon (even by the Fanboi's) is that they handled it like Dog poo. Sure, there are many grandeous plans on how it will be better in the future and all that, but the proof is in the pudding.
Communication continues to be suck. CCP has taken to ignoring it and hoping it will go away. Well, maybe it will, maybe it won't. I suppose only time will tell. As long as people like the OP continue to post questions like "what happened" and people like me are willing to explain it, and people like you, Lord Slater, are willing to drink Kool Aid and defend CCP, well, I suppose it won't be dying any time soon. In that sense I find it kind of amusing that by continuing to post you are part of CCPs problem.
The real reason was CCP had a pat excuse to bad someone who they felt would be a threat to the integrity of their servers, nothing more. Kug is a known and accomplished hacker, they felt at risk and used this opportunity to ban him from the game.
Now, I see this as pure speculation at best by CCP. They hand no "proof" that Kug would ever hack into CCP's servers. They just had the "feeling" that an opportunity might arise where he would. So, they jumped at the chance to shut down this possible scenario.
Minority Report anyone?
Better than doing nothing i suppose. Frankly arguing about this is getting rpetty pointless as we will have the fanbois who love the game and the EvE haters who hate the game. It seems the argument is nolonger really about what happened and more about Poking a dead horse. Below ill post just the facts.
T20 was caught 7 months before the main event.
He was punished by a support team.
The main staff members were on holiday abroad.
The 10 bluprints in question were kept for 7 months and 'Discovered'.
Kugs Posted confidential info on T20's Account info [breaking the EULA]
Kug was banned so therefore not part of eve anymore.
Now im not to clear what ahppened here but for some reason Sir mole posted info on KUG's real life reveiling his chriminal past and present he wasant banned because KUG was not a member of EvE and not protected under the relivent sections of the EULA.
Kug begins posting DEV and GM personall details at random even if they did noting wrong [this is where i lose any respect for KUG].
There you a go a brief very rough timeline and of course it shows why sir mole may have not been banned and a possable reason why KUG was. reason being that kug while being a member posted account details of a eve member under the EULAS protection. And sir mole did the same when KUG was nolonger a member of eve and ttherefore not a member of eve.
And I agree it's a dead horse. Your not likely to get more out CCP on this issue. It would take something really earth shattering to get further response out of them. And with a community that is jaded over the whole thing ... it would take something earth shattering to make them even care.
RUMSFELD!!!!
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
if I were to kill a titan tomorrow and no CCP employees showed up to say grats I would petition it.
Waiting for: the next MMO that lets me make this macro
if hp < 30 then CastSpell("heal") SpellTargetUnit("player") else CastSpell("smite") end
So by your count which continent is support who?
lordslater, i assume from your reply your a fanboi of eve, which isnt a bad thing. yes the above content needs to be proven, your point there is well taken.
what will never settle down is where there is one there are many, and excuses like the whole ccp staff was on vacation (which they werent at the time, only a few fill ins, you can get this info from the dev blogs) just dont fly. always remember that in eve (whether one or many) the dev(s) cheated, have cheated, are continuing to cheat, manipulate their creation and their vision for their profit and enjoyment.
hackers deserve no less than casteration on a side note.
i left eve because of the "criminal activity" that was rumored months ago about this, and then it blew up. after all how can you play a game where this stuff is occurring and you can do nothing about it, imagine if that asshack hadnt hacked, the high level status quo would still be in place, unfair advantage, manipulation at that high level, who is to say it isnt still occurring for the pet corp of CCP?. so put out opinions of support, for or against, but always remember the fluff will continue to come as CCP desperately tries to put this behind them and manipulate the media to help them repair that which was lost, i think we call it TRUST.
can you smell that?!!...............there is nothing quite like it.....................the smell of troll in the morning............i love that smell.
I just wanna say, Dev. scandal aside, the lvl of community interaction and depth in this game is pretty amazing.
I know of no other game were this sort of intrigue is possible.
I tried Eve a few years back and it wasn't my cup of tea at the time, but I gotta give it to CCP. They've done one hell of a job creating such a community rich game.
This sort of thing makes me want to give the game another go. I may reactivate at the end of the week, pretty sick of the EQ model at the moment.
That was all.
i also think sirmolle should have been punished for posting information on another player in the forum, sorry but i dont like people publicly giving away personal information
it happened now almost a year ago
deal with it
move on
or leave the game
enough has been said and we now all know what happened
hasn't stopped almost double subscriptions in the past year has it
******************************************
In the beginning the Universe was created,
This made a lot of people angry,
and has been widely regarded as a bad idea.
Soooo what you say here Lordslater is that SirMolle is CCP staff ??? yeah that must be it, because in your word you say that Kug got banned because he revealed real life information about SirMolle, while SirMolle did not get banned because Kug is not a member of CCP.
Now ... you do know that Kug did NOT reveal any real life information about any CCP staff members, and in Kug's own word he did get banned because of 2 things.... 1) Revealing real life information about a player on the official forums, and 2) costing CCP money (don't remember exact how this was written).