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Level system, A grind from start to End?
Ikarioz
Member Posts: 17
Hi just want to hear your oppinions, what you old MMO-Gamers like myself think about WAR and another level sytem MMOG.
My experiance starts back in -95/-96 when UO and Asheron's Call was released. 2 complete diffrent games but both MMOG's, AC with plenty of levels to grind and diden't take long till there were macro bots and all stuff out there to help you gain these 126 levels that first came with release. now with new expansion there are 275! about the same with Anarchy online 
and UO that has no levels but you got better by picking professions skills. the more you hitted the higher skill... etc. And you could also re-spec to other skills by reverse the skill training.
i've played and beta tested like 15-16 MMOG's in my career and i must say i'm sick of leveling system, its just a long boring grind from start to end.
But i have faith in WAR and i hope it will give me loads of fun, and even if it has a level system i hope you won't take that much of focus from the rest of the game. Been waiting for a Warhammer MMOG since when i started play MMO's and Warhammer Tabletop.
Now even if EA are involved i don't think they got much to say about it. you don't mess with Gamesworkshop 
/Regard and have faith onto mythic and GW
Comments
So, it's not exactly a level-based system but it's not a radical change either. I guess they could be more adventurous (sp?) but since it's still a business, shooting for the middle point between people used to levels and people who want something else is their best bet.
Going on a little rant, I think the levels system is cool, but the way it's handled by the various developers is starting to suck. Levels are becoming just a pretext for endless grinding instead of something meaningful. It's been a long time since I played a game where levels actually mattered and weren't just the next step to the next level ad infinitum... eventually it becomes boring, and earning levels is no more something worth 'grats-ing' for
Yah you probably won't see it the way as in the rest of the MMOG's with the tiers. i'm gonna like this system, atleast i will get used to it
Too many developers think it attracts ppl to have level system, wich it do, as many ppl should understand it
If you played UO you diden't see many "kiddos" but ofc. that was -95 and internet was not that expanded and cheap as it is today, not in sweden at least.
For me. WoW can keep the kids
Though not an MMORPG , Oblivion uses a system that level you based on the use of your core skills.
In some ways it work, in others it doesn't. You can have skills in various atheltic abilities and in melee combat - you use them the most traveling the world thus gaining levels quickly. Magic skills lvl slowly and you are still considerably weak.
Grinding does suck in my opinion. Its tiresome and boring.
Its hard to say what system would be best since everyone wants something different from a game.
PVP people who have no interest in the RP aspect of the game wouldn't want a system that levels your character through questing.
RP people wouldn't want a system based on killing the most people or capturing the most flags or controling strategic point...etc...
Perhaps the best system would be some type of hybrid that takes into account various types of lvling systems.
Successes in pvp, questing, skill improvement should all be factored into attaining a higher level.
Example,
Completing a quest gets you exp + improves your noteriety or good standing with the town/god/race
Engineering/Crafting/Creating soemthing new based on your skill set improves your corresponding stats + gives you exp
Kills/victories/battlefield successes give you exp + improves combat skills + military rank/standing with race/town/god
This way people could do what ever they wanted or all 3 and you would go up a level.
To keep people from grinding, set cap limits on the amount of exp one gets when they kill a certain type of mob at that level (weed out cartman killing boars)
Other thoughts?
A XP reward system-
Example: capture flag in pvp - you gain 1000 xp points
you kill a giant for 3535 XP.... with this amount of XP you use em to put on Str.tougness etc. also your skills, so first point cost 10xp. next 25, next 45, and so on. this is what they use in Asheron's call. it works. but gets boring as at lv 270 1 skill point cost 247832647328 mil xp. and take days to gain. but it works to keep the shit going.
Well, it stands to reason that improving your skill (or virtual skill) at anything requires plenty of practise - and that's usually a grind of sorts. But I do know what you mean here - I started on UO myself back in the day, and there were some grind sessions that weren't enjoyable (often boring), but were a necessary evil to improve your character - mining is a great example of that. killing the same mobs over and over again to grind xp could become boring as well - EQ seemed to be adept at that, but it was a newish concept back then, so I didn't mind it as much for the first year... lol
As long as the grind is FUN, it won't seem like a grind. As Mythic continually reminds itself - "FUN you fu**ers!", i have great hopes that they'll manage to pull that one off. And since you can improve your character by fighting other players, that's certainly going to go some way to alleviate the boredom in grinding. In my experience, only WoW has come close to making PvP seem like just another grind - but I think that's because the battlegrounds weren't varied enough, and that they held no greater purpose other than to acquire better equipment. From what I see, WAR RvR and PvP seems to have an overall purpose and objective where your actions actually make a difference to everyone's game - and I really like the idea of that, because it won't seem as much of a grind then (hopefully).
The concepts of WAR RvR and Public Quests and all the rest seems like the breath of fresh air that a lot of people have been waiting for. Like you, I have a lot of faith in Mythic because of their enthusiasm for the game and world I know from the old tabletop days.
Here's hoping that the inevitable grind to the upper echelons of battle mastery will be a long and FUN one.
It was stated that upon originally designing the game they wanted to do away completely with the level system many of us have become accustomed to, however after some initial internal testing they saw that it did not work so they developed the tier system. As stated basically within each tier you have skills available to you and these skills change and advance depending on the tier you are in. You advance through looks as well as skills and certain options become available to you depending on what you have done.
I hope the system works out this way (the way the developers are talking about) as it sounds exciting and different enough not to alienate but to surprise and be enjoyable. So there is definately a lot of focus on improving what you use (an example given would be getting a specific giant slaying skill for killing so many giants, reputation for helping public quests and a different system for PvP). How it actually turns out remains to be seen but I am very excited to see what Mythic can do and have great faith we will see something interesting if not radically different.
I Totally Agree with you. feels like they are doing everything right atm with letting us pick in what way we want to "grind". it maybe feel small but in the end, by letting us decide if we want more of this or that will make the game live longer i hope. And for us who have been following "the boredom" of grinding from MMOG to MMOG year after year, It will be noticed
275 levels? I take it a level 275 could sneeze on a level 25 and kill him? Or maybe with just a nasty look?
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I get the Tier system, I was thinking that you should go up tier based on all achievements in game, both combat and Questing and SKills
Its probobly what will happen. I really can't wait to see what happens.
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Well, it stands to reason that improving your skill (or virtual skill) at anything requires plenty of practise - and that's usually a grind of sorts. But I do know what you mean here - I started on UO myself back in the day, and there were some grind sessions that weren't enjoyable (often boring), but were a necessary evil to improve your character - mining is a great example of that. killing the same mobs over and over again to grind xp could become boring as well - EQ seemed to be adept at that, but it was a newish concept back then, so I didn't mind it as much for the first year... lol
As long as the grind is FUN, it won't seem like a grind. As Mythic continually reminds itself - "FUN you fu**ers!", i have great hopes that they'll manage to pull that one off. And since you can improve your character by fighting other players, that's certainly going to go some way to alleviate the boredom in grinding. In my experience, only WoW has come close to making PvP seem like just another grind - but I think that's because the battlegrounds weren't varied enough, and that they held no greater purpose other than to acquire better equipment. From what I see, WAR RvR and PvP seems to have an overall purpose and objective where your actions actually make a difference to everyone's game - and I really like the idea of that, because it won't seem as much of a grind then (hopefully).
The concepts of WAR RvR and Public Quests and all the rest seems like the breath of fresh air that a lot of people have been waiting for. Like you, I have a lot of faith in Mythic because of their enthusiasm for the game and world I know from the old tabletop days.
Here's hoping that the inevitable grind to the upper echelons of battle mastery will be a long and FUN one.
Agreed. WAR is taking steps to make pvp and pve more fun than in previous games. I think the public quest system and the PvP zones even at the first starting areas are great ideas and that WAR will be very popular once all the critics give it a chance. I'm looking forward to seeing/hearing more about the game every day just hoping a dev posts a video about some new aspect of the game they are working on.
I don't mind level systems in general, as levels make balancing characters and content easier for devs. It's also an addivtive way to show advancement. "Hey, I just hit level 20!" As long as the game can keep the content fresh, you don't even notice the grind involved. In the best games, you don't watch your experience bar, and leveling comes as a pleasant surprise.
As for the differences in characters, I think it's reasonable if Player A has higher stats, better armor, and stronger abilities, then Player B is going to have a hard time defeating such an opponent. Skill? Ha! Unless you're talking about a twitch game, like an FPS, then there's very little "skill" involved. I suppose using combinations of abilites could be considered skill, though.
One of the things that annoyed me in WoW, though, was that lower leveled players "missed" higher level players. You'd try to hit them, but the difference in level caused you to fail. That isn't right. I can understand that a level 39 player is probably going to win in a 1-on-1 fight with a level 30. But what if 3 level 30 players managed to get a level 39 alone? Shouldn't they have a shot of taking them down?
Another way that they can reduce the disparity between levels is to not make gear so overpowered. In WoW, at level 10, my gear contributed to about 100 points of my mana pool. At level 60, my gear contributed 4,000 out of 6,000 of my mana! What the hell? In my opinion, gear should only contribute about 25-30% of a character's effectiveness. Some games simply go overboard on how important gear is. If gear wasn't so drastically different between levels, lower leveled players would have a better chance against higher level players.
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
Hey Areel,
Funny you should mention that; I'm sure i saw something in an interview or preview somewhere about you character's action effecting the rest of your nearby group mates alliance in some way ~ giving them more combat power, or something along the lines of using the WFB Leadership stat (or something similar) to improve your friend's abilities during combat. I know that's a little vague of me, but i can't quite remember the details now.
Anyway... I totally agree that it would be great if Mythic did something to correct that problem. Would be interesting to say the least.