I could carless if they cut xp in half myself am a slow leveler and i grind money every step of the way , took me 148 days to get my rogue to level 60 in WOW and by that time i had this great big pile of gold and nothing left to spend it on but a repair bill lol
VG is struggling due to a poor launch and lack of interest. Therefore they must toe the line so to speak. It is obvious that the WOW-ification process is in full swing now and you will continue to see them adding more and more aspects that will put the training wheels back on for the fast food MMO culture that now consumes this market.
Would you like fries with that?
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
They tend to confuse grinding with hard. I have no idea why.
I'm convinced that it's nothing but misplaced nostalgia for the original EverQuest. It's the only thing that makes any sense.
QFT
Did you know that spikenog is an anagram of goes pink?
Such that Vanguard: Sofa Rage Hos works out.
And Lidane can be either Nailed or Denial. (Which I think is kinda cool, actually.)
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes can also be Forgo Sausage Veranda, Favored Gaseous Hangar, or even Guava's Gonorrhea Fades. (At least I think I spelled that right.) But Sofa Rage Hos is my new favorite.
It is obvious that the WOW-ification process is in full swing now and you will continue to see them adding more and more aspects that will put the training wheels back on for the fast food MMO culture that now consumes this market.
I laugh at the "training wheels" comment. This is one of the things that I do not get and never will.
Listen...playing a game that takes you a long time to level is not, in any way, hard. Other games that take less time to level are not easier than VG.
Think of what you are saying.
If two people have to go on a walk, one for 10 miles and one for 20 miles...it's still walking...walking is not hard. Just takes one guy longer...big deal.
And this "Fast Food MMO Culture" that you speak of is a load of crap. The majority of people do not have the time it takes to get a toon to max level and experience end game content in a half baked game like VG. People are drawn to games that are fun and have rewards for the time they put in. VG is not fun for this majority. This has nothing to do with challenge or immersion as every other game has just as much of this than VG...more so even as you actually get to play the endgame and still maintain a full time job and real life.
Did you know that spikenog is an anagram of goes pink?
Such that Vanguard: Sofa Rage Hos works out.
And Lidane can be either Nailed or Denial. (Which I think is kinda cool, actually.)
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes can also be Forgo Sausage Veranda, Favored Gaseous Hangar, or even Guava's Gonorrhea Fades. (At least I think I spelled that right.) But Sofa Rage Hos is my new favorite.
VG is struggling due to a poor launch and lack of interest. Therefore they must toe the line so to speak. It is obvious that the WOW-ification process is in full swing now and you will continue to see them adding more and more aspects that will put the training wheels back on for the fast food MMO culture that now consumes this market.
Would you like fries with that?
Looks that way. I don't think they'll have much choice.
You'll know for sure if they eliminate the penalty for retrieving your corpse from the shrine and/or add teleporters to all the major cities.
And Lidane can be either Nailed or Denial. (Which I think is kinda cool, actually.)
Hehe.
What's even funnier to me about that is that both apply, considering that I took the name Lidane from my highest level toon in EQ. She was Nailed by the long grind, and eventual tedium that was the high end EverQuest game, and I was in Denial about it until I finally got over my addiction to the game.
It is obvious that the WOW-ification process is in full swing now and you will continue to see them adding more and more aspects that will put the training wheels back on for the fast food MMO culture that now consumes this market.
I laugh at the "training wheels" comment. This is one of the things that I do not get and never will.
Listen...playing a game that takes you a long time to level is not, in any way, hard. Other games that take less time to level are not easier than VG.
Think of what you are saying.
If two people have to go on a walk, one for 10 miles and one for 20 miles...it's still walking...walking is not hard. Just takes one guy longer...big deal.
And this "Fast Food MMO Culture" that you speak of is a load of crap. The majority of people do not have the time it takes to get a toon to max level and experience end game content in a half baked game like VG. People are drawn to games that are fun and have rewards for the time they put in. VG is not fun for this majority. This has nothing to do with challenge or immersion as every other game has just as much of this than VG...more so even as you actually get to play the endgame and still maintain a full time job and real life.
Get off the high horse Vanbois.
Spoken like a true WOW tard.
You dont want a challenge you want things handed to you. The reason we all burned through the content of WOW so fast is that there was nothing to slow us down. Never once did I encounter something that I had to think about and come up with a brilliant strategy to overcome. I am not saying that VG has any of this either I am simply commenting on the state of this genre compared to the days of classic EQ.
These are the reasons why EQ and UO lasted 10 years yet people have already "beaten" WOW in 2 years and are moving on. These games are quick fixes and have no substance or longevity. This is the problem we get when the cosole generation gets into PC MMOs.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Speaking of the Hardcore Gamers. I don't think they really want a Hardcore game. They want to force *others* to play the game the way *they* think it should be played.
Proof? Sure, here it is.
EQ2 has had the ability to turn *off* Adventure and/or Crafting experience since launch. So, if the so-called Hardcore Gamers actually wanted to play hardcore, all they had to do (in EQ2) was turn off their exp gathering whenever their own self-imposed criteria dictated it as appropriate.
In addition, the so-called Hardcore Gamer could self-impose Perma-Death penalties. All they had to do is when they die, send all thier items and gold to a new character, and delete the current one that died.
So-Called Hardcore Gamers could go play EVE, which has a 100% item loss, FFA PvP, full player economy, available.
But, the truth is they are not really Hardcore Gamers. They are petty tyrants that want to force their own method of gameplay on everyone else. So, what do you end up with? A game like V:SoH; a game that simply cannot succeed while pandering to the so-called Hardcore Gamer audience. Because, despite the vocal claims to the contrary, the people that actually want to play that way are a truly tiny, tiny, percentage of the total gaming population. And not even a 'niche' game like V:SoH can succeed based on that population.
So, V:SoH fans, prepare yourself for a week-by-week implementation of a V:SoH NGE / CU. Mandated by SoE in the hopes of building a player base. But, I fear it is to late for V:SoH. It launched bad and the damage is done. Better games are coming down the line this year. Happier games. More finished games. More inovative games.
You dont want a challenge you want things handed to you. The reason we all burned through the content of WOW so fast is that there was nothing to slow us down. Never once did I encounter something that I had to think about and come up with a brilliant strategy to overcome. I am not saying that VG has any of this either I am simply commenting on the state of this genre compared to the days of classic EQ.
These are the reasons why EQ and UO lasted 10 years yet people have already "beaten" WOW in 2 years and are moving on. These games are quick fixes and have no substance or longevity. This is the problem we get when the cosole generation gets into PC MMOs.
Absurd.
The reason why UO and EQ lasted as long as they did (and they are done despite the handfuls of hold-outs) is because they did not evolve.
I suggest you go and play one of them...old, stale and nothing new...hardly challenging in any way shape or form. If you want to play something challenging you should not be playing MMOs.
And what makes me a WoWtard? The fact that I like playing a game while enjoying end game content, raiding often with friends at the top of the game while still being able maintain a busy professional career and spending time with friends and family? That sure makes me a WoWtard.
It is obvious that the WOW-ification process is in full swing now and you will continue to see them adding more and more aspects that will put the training wheels back on for the fast food MMO culture that now consumes this market.
I laugh at the "training wheels" comment. This is one of the things that I do not get and never will.
Listen...playing a game that takes you a long time to level is not, in any way, hard. Other games that take less time to level are not easier than VG.
Think of what you are saying.
If two people have to go on a walk, one for 10 miles and one for 20 miles...it's still walking...walking is not hard. Just takes one guy longer...big deal.
And this "Fast Food MMO Culture" that you speak of is a load of crap. The majority of people do not have the time it takes to get a toon to max level and experience end game content in a half baked game like VG. People are drawn to games that are fun and have rewards for the time they put in. VG is not fun for this majority. This has nothing to do with challenge or immersion as every other game has just as much of this than VG...more so even as you actually get to play the endgame and still maintain a full time job and real life.
Get off the high horse Vanbois.
Spoken like a true WOW tard.
You dont want a challenge you want things handed to you. The reason we all burned through the content of WOW so fast is that there was nothing to slow us down. Never once did I encounter something that I had to think about and come up with a brilliant strategy to overcome. I am not saying that VG has any of this either I am simply commenting on the state of this genre compared to the days of classic EQ.
These are the reasons why EQ and UO lasted 10 years yet people have already "beaten" WOW in 2 years and are moving on. These games are quick fixes and have no substance or longevity. This is the problem we get when the cosole generation gets into PC MMOs.
One factor contributing to UO and EQ lasting so long is that there was very little else out there at the time. These days people have a choice and as the success of WoW has proven many people do not find mindless grinding to be either fun or challenging.
-------
"At the very least, doing the wet towel snap should disconnect the nerves of the spinal column, causing total paralysis, thus enabling you to skin the bastard alive."
I think this may be a positive... It could allow players to play more than one toon and try out other spheres as well rather than grinfdfocus to get 1 level in a day to a week.
These are the reasons why EQ and UO lasted 10 years yet people have already "beaten" WOW in 2 years and are moving on. These games are quick fixes and have no substance or longevity. This is the problem we get when the cosole generation gets into PC MMOs.
Do you believe that strongly that an MMORPG should last "forever"? It seems that for lack of creativity, games like EQ had no answer but to put in rooster bricks (cockblocks), long XP curves, bullshit keying systems and "AA's".
With all due respect, I would rather play a game that "lasts two years" but is fun, than play a game that stretches itself out to try and be a lifelong game, but is boring and tedious 99.9% of the time.
These are the reasons why EQ and UO lasted 10 years yet people have already "beaten" WOW in 2 years and are moving on. These games are quick fixes and have no substance or longevity. This is the problem we get when the cosole generation gets into PC MMOs.
Do you believe that strongly that an MMORPG should last "forever"? It seems that for lack of creativity, games like EQ had no answer but to put in rooster bricks (cockblocks), long XP curves, bullshit keying systems and "AA's".
With all due respect, I would rather play a game that "lasts two years" but is fun, than play a game that stretches itself out to try and be a lifelong game, but is boring and tedious 99.9% of the time. Besides, starman, you're contradicting yourself greatly.
if WoW bored you after 2 years, then you were apart of the healthy 'churn' process all MMOs go through. You think the bulk of a 10 year old MMO's 100-200k population is the same people that played it from the very first time it reached those numbers?
No. There's a such thing as new subscribers, retention and fall off. Certainly some people have been playing EQ and UO from launch, but a majority of their players have not.
Asking for a game that prevents you from seeing all there is to see for 5-6 years is only going to result in a dead game. You're supposed to only be interested so long before major updates, expansions and such come along to gain your interest again or make a returning customer out of you.
It is obvious that the WOW-ification process is in full swing now and you will continue to see them adding more and more aspects that will put the training wheels back on for the fast food MMO culture that now consumes this market.
I laugh at the "training wheels" comment. This is one of the things that I do not get and never will.
Listen...playing a game that takes you a long time to level is not, in any way, hard. Other games that take less time to level are not easier than VG.
Think of what you are saying.
If two people have to go on a walk, one for 10 miles and one for 20 miles...it's still walking...walking is not hard. Just takes one guy longer...big deal.
And this "Fast Food MMO Culture" that you speak of is a load of crap. The majority of people do not have the time it takes to get a toon to max level and experience end game content in a half baked game like VG. People are drawn to games that are fun and have rewards for the time they put in. VG is not fun for this majority. This has nothing to do with challenge or immersion as every other game has just as much of this than VG...more so even as you actually get to play the endgame and still maintain a full time job and real life.
Get off the high horse Vanbois.
Spoken like a true WOW tard.
You dont want a challenge you want things handed to you. The reason we all burned through the content of WOW so fast is that there was nothing to slow us down. Never once did I encounter something that I had to think about and come up with a brilliant strategy to overcome. I am not saying that VG has any of this either I am simply commenting on the state of this genre compared to the days of classic EQ.
These are the reasons why EQ and UO lasted 10 years yet people have already "beaten" WOW in 2 years and are moving on. These games are quick fixes and have no substance or longevity. This is the problem we get when the cosole generation gets into PC MMOs.
Now that, my friend, shows ignorance.
Lets think for a second. EQ and UO have lasted 10 years (9 for EQ) because THEY ARE 10 YEARS OLD. Its FAR more rare to see an MMO close up shop, than for it to continue on. Hell, if Shadowbane can still be going, your longevity theory is out the window.
As for WoW, for you to say people are moving on is a bit misleading. Do you think people never "moved on" in EQ? I did. after about a year. They had turn around, just like every other MMO. With WoW having record breaking subscription numbers, and maintaining them, you can not say that it doesnt possess the spark that EQ had. It might not be YOUR spark, but its a spark. In fact, its an all out forest fire. If you think that miraculously, WoW is going to die and stop existing within a year, your mad. Reality is, WoW is here to stay. It will "survivie" for a while.
Its not your taste, thats fine. But come to reality and realize it has found a successful model that seems to be what others want to emulate now.
You dont want a challenge you want things handed to you. The reason we all burned through the content of WOW so fast is that there was nothing to slow us down. Never once did I encounter something that I had to think about and come up with a brilliant strategy to overcome. I am not saying that VG has any of this either I am simply commenting on the state of this genre compared to the days of classic EQ.
These are the reasons why EQ and UO lasted 10 years yet people have already "beaten" WOW in 2 years and are moving on. These games are quick fixes and have no substance or longevity. This is the problem we get when the cosole generation gets into PC MMOs.
I see this a lot. What we are dealing with here is not a fanboy or a troll but a grindboy. Grindboys buy a game, and the only thing in it they do, and the only thing they will ever be good at (if even that) is level from 1 to max. Then, when they reach max, they feel they have "beaten" the game, and that means it was an easy one.
There are a great many difficult encounters in WoW. (And if they aren't difficult you can blame EQ for that because Blizzard hired hard core raiders from EQ to design them.) But grindboys don't raid or PvP. They do only simple things and then think the game itself is simple. This guy has never entered TBC. He won't have done any of the high end game there. He got to 60 in the old world and now thinks he is some kind of god for that very modest achievement. Of course, those of us who do spend their evenings in the high end content laugh at these big fish/little pond types.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
if WoW bored you after 2 years, then you were apart of the healthy 'churn' process all MMOs go through. You think the bulk of a 10 year old MMO's 100-200k population is the same people that played it from the very first time it reached those numbers?
No. There's a such thing as new subscribers, retention and fall off. Certainly some people have been playing EQ and UO from launch, but a majority of their players have not.
Asking for a game that prevents you from seeing all there is to see for 5-6 years is only going to result in a dead game. You're supposed to only be interested so long before major updates, expansions and such come along to gain your interest again or make a returning customer out of you.
Maybe I am not reading your reply properly. I never asked for a game that prevents you from seeing all there is to see for 5-6 years. It was more of a general question regarding MMORPG design philosophy.
Most past (and current) fantasy MMORPG, once you reach "max level" resort to techniques that drastically slow down forms of advancement. It's veiled as different things; reputation/faction grinds, "alternate advancement". I think developers understand that there is only so much content you can put in a game. I think the SMART devs do what they can to make their entire game as fun as possible with that understanding.
Other games seem to cop out on the fun factor in favor of tossing roadblocks up in front of players to keep them playing in the form of xp loss, xp debt, etc. Starman insinuated that WoW lacks substance; i'm saying I think the devs just realize there is no point in tossing up agonizing limitations just to hope people will stick around.
It is obvious that the WOW-ification process is in full swing now and you will continue to see them adding more and more aspects that will put the training wheels back on for the fast food MMO culture that now consumes this market.
I laugh at the "training wheels" comment. This is one of the things that I do not get and never will.
Listen...playing a game that takes you a long time to level is not, in any way, hard. Other games that take less time to level are not easier than VG.
Think of what you are saying.
If two people have to go on a walk, one for 10 miles and one for 20 miles...it's still walking...walking is not hard. Just takes one guy longer...big deal.
And this "Fast Food MMO Culture" that you speak of is a load of crap. The majority of people do not have the time it takes to get a toon to max level and experience end game content in a half baked game like VG. People are drawn to games that are fun and have rewards for the time they put in. VG is not fun for this majority. This has nothing to do with challenge or immersion as every other game has just as much of this than VG...more so even as you actually get to play the endgame and still maintain a full time job and real life.
Get off the high horse Vanbois.
The wisdom of this post should not be ignored. Thank you, Spikenog.
Why do they keep increasing the XP in this game? I thought it was the ultimate hardcore game for hardcores only who are xtreme hardcore?
You thought wrong. Brad himself has said Vanguard is not geared or going to be geared for the " hardcore" gamer rather he has stated Vanguard is a casual game with hardcore elements for those who wish to play the game hard.
If one plays the WHOLE game..( crafting, harvesting, diplomacy and adventure ) .....then it is STILL going to take even the hardcore folks a long time to max level in all three areas....est 3-6 months for the hardcore...6-18 months for the rest of us. I base those numbers on observations I've made with my fellow guildmates. We have some hardcore to very casual players and is a fair estimate.
Yes..I know you are being sarcastic...just figured I wold educate ya some, mabye dull your bitterness to VG just a tad...doubtful but hey...I do what i can.
Comments
VG is struggling due to a poor launch and lack of interest. Therefore they must toe the line so to speak. It is obvious that the WOW-ification process is in full swing now and you will continue to see them adding more and more aspects that will put the training wheels back on for the fast food MMO culture that now consumes this market.
Would you like fries with that?
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
QFT
Did you know that spikenog is an anagram of goes pink?
Such that Vanguard: Sofa Rage Hos works out.
And Lidane can be either Nailed or Denial. (Which I think is kinda cool, actually.)
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes can also be Forgo Sausage Veranda, Favored Gaseous Hangar, or even Guava's Gonorrhea Fades. (At least I think I spelled that right.) But Sofa Rage Hos is my new favorite.
I laugh at the "training wheels" comment. This is one of the things that I do not get and never will.
Listen...playing a game that takes you a long time to level is not, in any way, hard. Other games that take less time to level are not easier than VG.
Think of what you are saying.
If two people have to go on a walk, one for 10 miles and one for 20 miles...it's still walking...walking is not hard. Just takes one guy longer...big deal.
And this "Fast Food MMO Culture" that you speak of is a load of crap. The majority of people do not have the time it takes to get a toon to max level and experience end game content in a half baked game like VG. People are drawn to games that are fun and have rewards for the time they put in. VG is not fun for this majority. This has nothing to do with challenge or immersion as every other game has just as much of this than VG...more so even as you actually get to play the endgame and still maintain a full time job and real life.
Get off the high horse Vanbois.
You'll know for sure if they eliminate the penalty for retrieving your corpse from the shrine and/or add teleporters to all the major cities.
What's even funnier to me about that is that both apply, considering that I took the name Lidane from my highest level toon in EQ. She was Nailed by the long grind, and eventual tedium that was the high end EverQuest game, and I was in Denial about it until I finally got over my addiction to the game.
I laugh at the "training wheels" comment. This is one of the things that I do not get and never will.
Listen...playing a game that takes you a long time to level is not, in any way, hard. Other games that take less time to level are not easier than VG.
Think of what you are saying.
If two people have to go on a walk, one for 10 miles and one for 20 miles...it's still walking...walking is not hard. Just takes one guy longer...big deal.
And this "Fast Food MMO Culture" that you speak of is a load of crap. The majority of people do not have the time it takes to get a toon to max level and experience end game content in a half baked game like VG. People are drawn to games that are fun and have rewards for the time they put in. VG is not fun for this majority. This has nothing to do with challenge or immersion as every other game has just as much of this than VG...more so even as you actually get to play the endgame and still maintain a full time job and real life.
Get off the high horse Vanbois.
Spoken like a true WOW tard.
You dont want a challenge you want things handed to you. The reason we all burned through the content of WOW so fast is that there was nothing to slow us down. Never once did I encounter something that I had to think about and come up with a brilliant strategy to overcome. I am not saying that VG has any of this either I am simply commenting on the state of this genre compared to the days of classic EQ.
These are the reasons why EQ and UO lasted 10 years yet people have already "beaten" WOW in 2 years and are moving on. These games are quick fixes and have no substance or longevity. This is the problem we get when the cosole generation gets into PC MMOs.
Critical thinking is a desire to seek, patience to doubt, fondness to meditate, slowness to assert, readiness to consider, carefulness to dispose and set in order; and hatred for every kind of imposture.
Speaking of the Hardcore Gamers. I don't think they really want a Hardcore game. They want to force *others* to play the game the way *they* think it should be played.
Proof? Sure, here it is.
EQ2 has had the ability to turn *off* Adventure and/or Crafting experience since launch. So, if the so-called Hardcore Gamers actually wanted to play hardcore, all they had to do (in EQ2) was turn off their exp gathering whenever their own self-imposed criteria dictated it as appropriate.
In addition, the so-called Hardcore Gamer could self-impose Perma-Death penalties. All they had to do is when they die, send all thier items and gold to a new character, and delete the current one that died.
So-Called Hardcore Gamers could go play EVE, which has a 100% item loss, FFA PvP, full player economy, available.
But, the truth is they are not really Hardcore Gamers. They are petty tyrants that want to force their own method of gameplay on everyone else. So, what do you end up with? A game like V:SoH; a game that simply cannot succeed while pandering to the so-called Hardcore Gamer audience. Because, despite the vocal claims to the contrary, the people that actually want to play that way are a truly tiny, tiny, percentage of the total gaming population. And not even a 'niche' game like V:SoH can succeed based on that population.
So, V:SoH fans, prepare yourself for a week-by-week implementation of a V:SoH NGE / CU. Mandated by SoE in the hopes of building a player base. But, I fear it is to late for V:SoH. It launched bad and the damage is done. Better games are coming down the line this year. Happier games. More finished games. More inovative games.
The reason why UO and EQ lasted as long as they did (and they are done despite the handfuls of hold-outs) is because they did not evolve.
I suggest you go and play one of them...old, stale and nothing new...hardly challenging in any way shape or form. If you want to play something challenging you should not be playing MMOs.
And what makes me a WoWtard? The fact that I like playing a game while enjoying end game content, raiding often with friends at the top of the game while still being able maintain a busy professional career and spending time with friends and family? That sure makes me a WoWtard.
I laugh at the "training wheels" comment. This is one of the things that I do not get and never will.
Listen...playing a game that takes you a long time to level is not, in any way, hard. Other games that take less time to level are not easier than VG.
Think of what you are saying.
If two people have to go on a walk, one for 10 miles and one for 20 miles...it's still walking...walking is not hard. Just takes one guy longer...big deal.
And this "Fast Food MMO Culture" that you speak of is a load of crap. The majority of people do not have the time it takes to get a toon to max level and experience end game content in a half baked game like VG. People are drawn to games that are fun and have rewards for the time they put in. VG is not fun for this majority. This has nothing to do with challenge or immersion as every other game has just as much of this than VG...more so even as you actually get to play the endgame and still maintain a full time job and real life.
Get off the high horse Vanbois.
Spoken like a true WOW tard.
You dont want a challenge you want things handed to you. The reason we all burned through the content of WOW so fast is that there was nothing to slow us down. Never once did I encounter something that I had to think about and come up with a brilliant strategy to overcome. I am not saying that VG has any of this either I am simply commenting on the state of this genre compared to the days of classic EQ.
These are the reasons why EQ and UO lasted 10 years yet people have already "beaten" WOW in 2 years and are moving on. These games are quick fixes and have no substance or longevity. This is the problem we get when the cosole generation gets into PC MMOs.
One factor contributing to UO and EQ lasting so long is that there was very little else out there at the time. These days people have a choice and as the success of WoW has proven many people do not find mindless grinding to be either fun or challenging.
-------
"At the very least, doing the wet towel snap should disconnect the nerves of the spinal column, causing total paralysis, thus enabling you to skin the bastard alive."
With all due respect, I would rather play a game that "lasts two years" but is fun, than play a game that stretches itself out to try and be a lifelong game, but is boring and tedious 99.9% of the time.
With all due respect, I would rather play a game that "lasts two years" but is fun, than play a game that stretches itself out to try and be a lifelong game, but is boring and tedious 99.9% of the time. Besides, starman, you're contradicting yourself greatly.
if WoW bored you after 2 years, then you were apart of the healthy 'churn' process all MMOs go through. You think the bulk of a 10 year old MMO's 100-200k population is the same people that played it from the very first time it reached those numbers?
No. There's a such thing as new subscribers, retention and fall off. Certainly some people have been playing EQ and UO from launch, but a majority of their players have not.
Asking for a game that prevents you from seeing all there is to see for 5-6 years is only going to result in a dead game. You're supposed to only be interested so long before major updates, expansions and such come along to gain your interest again or make a returning customer out of you.
I laugh at the "training wheels" comment. This is one of the things that I do not get and never will.
Listen...playing a game that takes you a long time to level is not, in any way, hard. Other games that take less time to level are not easier than VG.
Think of what you are saying.
If two people have to go on a walk, one for 10 miles and one for 20 miles...it's still walking...walking is not hard. Just takes one guy longer...big deal.
And this "Fast Food MMO Culture" that you speak of is a load of crap. The majority of people do not have the time it takes to get a toon to max level and experience end game content in a half baked game like VG. People are drawn to games that are fun and have rewards for the time they put in. VG is not fun for this majority. This has nothing to do with challenge or immersion as every other game has just as much of this than VG...more so even as you actually get to play the endgame and still maintain a full time job and real life.
Get off the high horse Vanbois.
Spoken like a true WOW tard.
You dont want a challenge you want things handed to you. The reason we all burned through the content of WOW so fast is that there was nothing to slow us down. Never once did I encounter something that I had to think about and come up with a brilliant strategy to overcome. I am not saying that VG has any of this either I am simply commenting on the state of this genre compared to the days of classic EQ.
These are the reasons why EQ and UO lasted 10 years yet people have already "beaten" WOW in 2 years and are moving on. These games are quick fixes and have no substance or longevity. This is the problem we get when the cosole generation gets into PC MMOs.
Now that, my friend, shows ignorance.
Lets think for a second. EQ and UO have lasted 10 years (9 for EQ) because THEY ARE 10 YEARS OLD. Its FAR more rare to see an MMO close up shop, than for it to continue on. Hell, if Shadowbane can still be going, your longevity theory is out the window.
As for WoW, for you to say people are moving on is a bit misleading. Do you think people never "moved on" in EQ? I did. after about a year. They had turn around, just like every other MMO. With WoW having record breaking subscription numbers, and maintaining them, you can not say that it doesnt possess the spark that EQ had. It might not be YOUR spark, but its a spark. In fact, its an all out forest fire. If you think that miraculously, WoW is going to die and stop existing within a year, your mad. Reality is, WoW is here to stay. It will "survivie" for a while.
Its not your taste, thats fine. But come to reality and realize it has found a successful model that seems to be what others want to emulate now.
I see this a lot. What we are dealing with here is not a fanboy or a troll but a grindboy. Grindboys buy a game, and the only thing in it they do, and the only thing they will ever be good at (if even that) is level from 1 to max. Then, when they reach max, they feel they have "beaten" the game, and that means it was an easy one.
There are a great many difficult encounters in WoW. (And if they aren't difficult you can blame EQ for that because Blizzard hired hard core raiders from EQ to design them.) But grindboys don't raid or PvP. They do only simple things and then think the game itself is simple. This guy has never entered TBC. He won't have done any of the high end game there. He got to 60 in the old world and now thinks he is some kind of god for that very modest achievement. Of course, those of us who do spend their evenings in the high end content laugh at these big fish/little pond types.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
oh wait,.. my mistake, they ARE still in a beta stage...
Most past (and current) fantasy MMORPG, once you reach "max level" resort to techniques that drastically slow down forms of advancement. It's veiled as different things; reputation/faction grinds, "alternate advancement". I think developers understand that there is only so much content you can put in a game. I think the SMART devs do what they can to make their entire game as fun as possible with that understanding.
Other games seem to cop out on the fun factor in favor of tossing roadblocks up in front of players to keep them playing in the form of xp loss, xp debt, etc. Starman insinuated that WoW lacks substance; i'm saying I think the devs just realize there is no point in tossing up agonizing limitations just to hope people will stick around.
I laugh at the "training wheels" comment. This is one of the things that I do not get and never will.
Listen...playing a game that takes you a long time to level is not, in any way, hard. Other games that take less time to level are not easier than VG.
Think of what you are saying.
If two people have to go on a walk, one for 10 miles and one for 20 miles...it's still walking...walking is not hard. Just takes one guy longer...big deal.
And this "Fast Food MMO Culture" that you speak of is a load of crap. The majority of people do not have the time it takes to get a toon to max level and experience end game content in a half baked game like VG. People are drawn to games that are fun and have rewards for the time they put in. VG is not fun for this majority. This has nothing to do with challenge or immersion as every other game has just as much of this than VG...more so even as you actually get to play the endgame and still maintain a full time job and real life.
Get off the high horse Vanbois.
The wisdom of this post should not be ignored. Thank you, Spikenog.
You thought wrong. Brad himself has said Vanguard is not geared or going to be geared for the " hardcore" gamer rather he has stated Vanguard is a casual game with hardcore elements for those who wish to play the game hard.
If one plays the WHOLE game..( crafting, harvesting, diplomacy and adventure ) .....then it is STILL going to take even the hardcore folks a long time to max level in all three areas....est 3-6 months for the hardcore...6-18 months for the rest of us. I base those numbers on observations I've made with my fellow guildmates. We have some hardcore to very casual players and is a fair estimate.
Yes..I know you are being sarcastic...just figured I wold educate ya some, mabye dull your bitterness to VG just a tad...doubtful but hey...I do what i can.