Mmorpgs for creative people (with in-game editors)?

mussashimits · March 2007

Hello,

I'm searching for mmorpgs in which you can use your own creativity for the game. Second Life, for example, has a powerful design engine with which you can build practically anything. Would anyon happen to know of any other online game where you can show your creative side? The editor doesn't have to be as complex as in SL, though. Thanks for the help!

paulscott · March 2007

ingame no.

out of game never winter nights from my understanding, any RTS game, some shooters.

Grandis · March 2007

Saga Of Ryzom has a game editor

mussashimits · March 2007

Well, I have encountered a few that do have such a feature, such as the game called "There", or Avelia (where you can design your own pets), so yes they are out there, I just wish to know if anyone else has encountered any besides the three I know about. I also wouldn't mind a mmorpg where you can upload your own work as well.

Edit: Saga of Ryzom doesn't work well for my pc, unfortunately, but thanks for the suggestion

CleffyII · March 2007

in-game editor = major bandwidth hog

Thats why second life lags so bad. You will sooner see an mmorpg-FPS with physics and hosting 10000 people per server then this.

xxthecorexx · March 2007

not quite a MMO but neverwinter nights and neverwinter night 2 both have FULL editors. there's a "quick start" to using them in this months pc gamer, if you're interested.

CleffyII · March 2007

I am pretty sure Hero's Journey will make thier available which is alot like NWN editor.

Dreneth · March 2007

Originally posted by mussashimits

Edit: Saga of Ryzom doesn't work well for my pc, unfortunately, but thanks for the suggestion

I would contact their Tech support. I used to run Ryzom on a junk-box, and it worked very well for me. You might simply need to make a minor adjustment or tweak something.

Drafell · March 2007

I think player constructed content (in the terms of dungeons, new areas etc) is the future of online gaming design. The trick is providing simple and easy to use tools for facilitating this, as well as integrating these options smoothly into the game-play and offering the relevant rewards.

Personally I already have extensive design documentation which demonstrates how such features can be implemented, and I am certainly aware that there are many other ways and possibilities that can take advantage of the gaming communities native creativity.

For an example of what can be done, when players are provided with the tools and tutorials, just take a look at MySpace and similar social networking sites. It is also one of the reasons for the success of games like the Sims...
The first commercial game that can get combining player created content alongside viable user interactions right(such as conventional PvE and PvP experiences), will likely be the next "WoW".

Dreneth · March 2007

Have you actually looked around in Second Life? Player created content means that the general public has control over the look and feel of the game.

It sure as hell isn't pretty. You might find something decent here and there... but for the most part... ouch.

Drafell · March 2007

The problem with games like Second Life is that there is a lack of focus and direction in what is created. They are not games in the conventional sense, instead they are a 3d quasi form of social interaction. There is not really a coherent game universe or theme that actually gives a user a "gaming" experience.

They appeal to their niche markets, but they lack that important core focus.

I am not talking about completely free-form design. This can generally be too complex for the average casual user and is the main weakness behind games like Second Life in that the users are given too many options. Take a look at games like Dungeon Keeper, as an example, and then imagine that form of design capability as an MMO concept. There are a lot of intriguing possibilities behind this.

Dreneth · March 2007

There are certainly interesting possibilities for sandboxing, but I cannot see a viable MMORPG incorporating layer content creation as the primary source of content without severely limiting and restricting it. I can only imagine the logistical nightmare of GM's having to watch out for, and then delete, penis shaped castles and other such rediculousness which is sure to follow.

I certainly believe that *some* player driven content could make things interesting... but I personally have absolutely no interest in paying to play a game that someone else's wacko building skills ruins.

Drafell · March 2007

The ideal would be for the developers to create the core game content, along with some viable endgame possibilities, but to also provide the users the tools for them to create their own additional scenarios. You can offload a lot of the content management logistics onto the community itself via ratings system and also by providing viable reporting tools to alert the GM's when necessary. This is all a standard part of creating a game and the supporting infrastructure these days...
You can also mitigate such things to a degree by providing core templates on which the final designs have to be based.

Games will be highly unlikely to succeed without the professional content that is now widely expected, and so you should not be be reliant on the community for it. But there are definite areas in which player content can add to and enhance an existing game world.

nomadian · March 2007

Saga of Ryzom
Realmcrafter
NeverWinter Nights.

Welcome:)

Drafell · March 2007

Do you mind expanding upon exactly what features each of those has and how they are relevant to this topic? It's all very well posting titles, but many users may not be familiar with them ...

Also, NWN may feature multi-plyaer support, but it's not an online game...

Dreneth · March 2007

Saga of Ryzom (with the release of Ryzom Ring... aka R₂) is exactly what you are describing. If memory serves, they severely restricted any sort of reward... including XP... due to the possibility of players creating scenarios and using the mechanics to exploit and farm.

gpett · March 2007

Like it or not, user created content is the future of online persistent world MMOs. If any company dares to release a persistent world with the world creation tools it will be a cult hit followed by the masses. That was the orriginal appeal of the internet in that you could define a small space of this virtual world to your liking.

Imagine a world where every user could rent a virtual space and create content that satisfies them. Add that all together and you will have an amazing conglomeration of self expresion and original thought.

Give us the tools to create and we will wow you with our ideas.

nomadian · March 2007

Do you mind expanding upon exactly what features each of those has and how they are relevant to this topic? It's all very well posting titles, but many users may not be familiar with them ...

Saga of Ryzom incorporates an editor, you can try this out with the free trial.
Realmcrafter is a mmorpg maker, it isn't a game but you can look it up and get a free demo and have a go at that.
NeverWinter nights is well known for its player-made mods which may not be the size of mmorpgs(in fact max 64 players?) but can be played online and have 'persistant characters' and 'environments'. It is worth playing around with if you want to make content that is simular.

Also, Morrowind has an editor, which I think allows you to play around with creatures and environments and that, not sure how much detail it goes into.

Welcome, use the knowledge well

Drafell · March 2007

But none of those is an MMO designed from the ground up to take full advantage of user generated content.

Dreneth · March 2007

Originally posted by Drafell

But none of those is an MMO designed from the ground up to take full advantage of user generated content.

This may be for a good reason. System resource strain, lag, horrible player created content... Second Life is strewn with these issues. As for Ryzom, I left shortly after they released Ryzom Ring, and at the time you had to load up your scenario each time you logged in and it was only available while you were online. That's not too persistent.

Player created content may seem like a good idea in the sense of less development of content for players to play with,but the savings in development costs will be revisited as expense in the development of player creation systems and system resource load. Not to mention a much higher level of griefing and exploits.

Someone made the remark about the internet was supposed to be about creativity and individualism, well, I've seen plenty of websites that suck. Horrible, horrible horrible designs and color schemes.

Incorporating player created content would have to be thought out, well planned, and moderated heavily to maintain a certain level of quality, or I sure wouldn't play the game.

Coldmeat · March 2007

An MMO consisting of player created content, wholly or partially, is one of those things that sounds real good on paper, but breaks down totally in practice.

Just take 5 minutes reading random posts from random threads on any mmosite, then tell me it would be a good idea to put content creation tools in some of these peoples hands.

In a small, sub 500 user community, you might be ok. Perhaps even under 5k users. As the number of users increases, the amount of bad, or straight out grief content increases in an inversely proportionate manner. It's just like roleplaying. The more people you add to the mix, the lower the quality of the roleplaying.

Then there is the overhead for the company, who will need extra GM's on staff to police the player made content.

xxthecorexx · March 2007

i think it would be a great opportunity if development teams would to provide an off line modeling engine with their games, for player submittable content. as a bi-monthly contest give players the requirements that you're looking for whether it's for a new dungeon, or for just "general game aesthetics (ie: SWG's theed palace, i mean c'mon decorate the damn place already). have the model engine available to download the "model pack" (either preset map, or structure) and allow the players to design away then submit their final product.

hmm.. also it would be pretty slick if it could be done ingame, but within an "instance" type of thing. that way a few friends could help you work on your submission, and let you try to adjust the difficulty and balance prior to submission.

.. wow.. flush this out and there's TONS of "content" for mmo gamers here..

.. one can only dream

boognish75 · March 2007

the game saga of ryzoms expansion is just that type of thing, the higher lvl you get the more terain and npc's and animals you unlock and you can create yer own game and invite people into it.

Drafell · March 2007

Ryzom is pursuing one method of allowing user-customized content, but there are also other methods that can be equally effective, and in some ways easier to balance and implement.

One of the most important rules of game design: keep it simple, and FUN.

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Mmorpgs for creative people (with in-game editors)?

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Mmorpgs for creative people (with in-game editors)?

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