Did someone summon me? To correct, no it was not me healing 2 hammers killing one black orc, it was me playing a shaman healing a black orc fighting 2 hammers. I always play a primary healing class so this was a big deal to me to actually see i was going to be able to support my group and heal, but.... the heals use action points and action points take time to recharge so no you cant sit back and SPAM heals, but you can sit not on the front line and heal.
With that being said, you also gain morale and other special abilities by killing or using abilities that give you more of that ability. Those skills you can unlock make you better and certain things you do or need to do.
Ah, ok, I understand now. In that previous thread, we had been talking about Warrior Priests, so I just assumed you were one of those aiding the Dwarfs. I totally forgot about Shamans healing the Black Orcs.
Seriously. It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
Yes I was playing a shaman, who imo was more of a hot+dot type than a direct anything. more like the daoc shaman class was, only with mentalist quality hots. The DEPTH of the spells was just amazing. Things you would NEVER think about are around to add ned strategy not yet seen before in normal mmo's.
How many times have you seen a dot you place on an enemy that heals your party menbers that are around the target?? Ever see a taunt that actually works in pvp... yell very bad things at a person until they become so distracted they do less damage to everyone else EXCEPT you! what a great idea, you give them the "strong option" to attack you, but you dont take control of the charachter to make them do something they dont want to do.
one thing I can see happening in this game though, anyone remember "gank groups" from daoc? form a perfect group of smart players and spec them in ways that support the group and you can take on twice your number or ungrouped people? well this is a game where you get stronger the longer a fight goes on... imagine what happens when you constantly have 1 group that is winning by beating other groups in the area?
I wouldnt worry about how healers and healing and groups will adapt in the game. Things will be implimented in a way that favors battle according to the devs. Imagine a wow priest that can only use renew to heal with. They could in theory sit in the back and cast renew and heal and keep people alive against common attacks. Now imagine they could use shadow and nuke to heal the entire party with improves vampyric embrace to go along with that renew, and if you deal enough damage to 1 target you will also be ablt to use Flash and greater heal in addition to your renew HoT and each time you get a critical from attacking it triggered a group buff that added health and action point regen bonus for 10 seconds and every time you deliver a killing blow to an opponent your group gained 10% damage boost for 10 seconds? I dobut they would "force" you to sit back and play "namby pamby" type healer. The game is being designed to allow anyone to succeed lets not forget, and also for everyone to kill and thrive in chaotic war!
hahaha! That sounds simply amazing Greenskin magic NAMES also were the funniest one's I've ever seen ^^
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
that does sound fairly awesome to the extreme in wow i played as a shaman as my only "healer", as my experiances with pure healing classes (resto druid and holy priest) were not full of fond memories, in fact i couldnt grind them past level 30 without being bored out of my skull, and as an enhancement specced shammy i loved the fact that i could utility with my totems and heal myself most effectively, to the point where i could take on orange elites solo and still come out of the fight with 75% hp in most cases, so i am leaning away from the squig herder and thinking shaman or some other healing type would be great to play in WAR
i have heard absolutely nothing bad about this game so far, and i was wondering if any of you have heard anything that could be potentially bad for the game, i really hope i get no answers, but im just being curious
thanks
Rumor has it that some people are getting really worried that they haven't heard nothing bad about the game. No game is perfect including this one.
Well as it has already been said, we won't really hear anything "bad" until a more biased player base is beta testing the game. Right now the devs and a select few are the only ones testing it and they are under NDA as well as the fact that they arent going to come post negative feedback about their own game.
Personally I think the "bad" things we will hear from folks will all be personal opinion stuff, like "The graphics look too much like Warhammer miniatures" or "Why is the interface similar to WoW's interface?" or "Collision detection pisses me off because i cant get to the caster right away i have to kill the tanks, whaaaa"
The feedback I am looking forward to hearing about is:
- gameplay (balanced? creative? end game?)
- RvR/PvP (is the game truly focused on these?)
- items vs skill (will the game favor item unbalance versus skill?)
Yes I was playing a shaman, who imo was more of a hot+dot type than a direct anything. more like the daoc shaman class was, only with mentalist quality hots. The DEPTH of the spells was just amazing. Things you would NEVER think about are around to add ned strategy not yet seen before in normal mmo's.
How many times have you seen a dot you place on an enemy that heals your party menbers that are around the target?? Ever see a taunt that actually works in pvp... yell very bad things at a person until they become so distracted they do less damage to everyone else EXCEPT you! what a great idea, you give them the "strong option" to attack you, but you dont take control of the charachter to make them do something they dont want to do.
one thing I can see happening in this game though, anyone remember "gank groups" from daoc? form a perfect group of smart players and spec them in ways that support the group and you can take on twice your number or ungrouped people? well this is a game where you get stronger the longer a fight goes on... imagine what happens when you constantly have 1 group that is winning by beating other groups in the area? I wouldnt worry about how healers and healing and groups will adapt in the game. Things will be implimented in a way that favors battle according to the devs. Imagine a wow priest that can only use renew to heal with. They could in theory sit in the back and cast renew and heal and keep people alive against common attacks. Now imagine they could use shadow and nuke to heal the entire party with improves vampyric embrace to go along with that renew, and if you deal enough damage to 1 target you will also be ablt to use Flash and greater heal in addition to your renew HoT and each time you get a critical from attacking it triggered a group buff that added health and action point regen bonus for 10 seconds and every time you deliver a killing blow to an opponent your group gained 10% damage boost for 10 seconds? I dobut they would "force" you to sit back and play "namby pamby" type healer. The game is being designed to allow anyone to succeed lets not forget, and also for everyone to kill and thrive in chaotic war!
-Hasani-
I could almost hug you. Best description of healing yet!
Seriously. It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
Before I bring up what COULD POSSIBLY be a problem with WAR let me make it clear Im a huge WAR fan and Im not looking for a flamewar. Disagree with me, converse with me-- but no flames k?
Ok for starters the stand to cast thing is definitely an issue with me. If your comparing it to wow, all classes had On The Run spells they could use. And excuse me but, "running with your head cut off", dont even go there. I know its the COOL thing to rip on WoW but j u s t stop.
Priests had heal over time instants, power word shield instant,instant fear and instant dots.
Warlocks cast 2 instant dots, can have a instant fear, instant curses, instant deathcoil and proly a few other things Im missing.
All classes in WoW had very important spells or abilities that were instant so dont tell me instants dont play a large role in WoW pvp.
Secondly Charachter movement hasnt exactly blown me away. Its looking to be a bit slow on the takeoff and stop much like DAOC was and YES thats a bad thing.
3rd
No stealthers. Yes I beleive thats a bad thing. I know that having complete invisibility gives you a huge advantage and its very hard to balance past that advantage without nerfing the class to oblivion or making the class overpowered BUT PvP imo WITHOUT stealthers is not a good thing.
4th Possible lack of Crowd Control. I love CC, what more can I say. If it has less than WoW or even less CC than DAOC, that may be a potential issue with me personally.
Having said all that, I still beleive the game looks VERY FUN and I dont exactly think any of the things Ive mentioned will be game breaking.
4th Possible lack of Crowd Control. I love CC, what more can I say. If it has less than WoW or even less CC than DAOC, that may be a potential issue with me personally.
No stealthers. Yes I beleive thats a bad thing. I know that having complete invisibility gives you a huge advantage and its very hard to balance past that advantage without nerfing the class to oblivion or making the class overpowered BUT PvP imo WITHOUT stealthers is not a good thing.
Imagine if GW had stealth..
Anyway, the only reason I believe they don't use stuff like that is because they want it more of a SKILL based game.
Being feared, is indeed not very fun and stealth in a true PvP game just won't work. Unless magicians use it and that's the only reason I would accept for TRUE unvisibility. A rogue being completely stealthed is redicilous. They should have more of a DND or NWN kind-off stealth.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Well, if you are worried about "biased" people playing war dont worry too much. If you have read many of my editorials I would hardly call myself a "fanboy" type. I am pretty critical and blunt about how I feel about a topic or about a game because as gamers we are passionate about our games and frankly deserve fair representation am I right?
To add my 2 cents to the poster two post above me. Most of your points of intrest would lead me to belive you may have not played many other games, except wow. Stand to cast is a core ability in basic rpg's not even online or console games... RPG's in general. Spell interuption and stand to cast are part of what playing a caster are all about. WoW in my opinion has seriously thrown off the ballance and concept of pvp because of these facts. Go back and watch old dark age of camelot videos, casters would cast 2.5 sec casting time spells all the time, some spells where even 4 and 6 sec cast times and primary casters had NO insta cast spells and save for a special ability on a 20 minute timer that lasted for 10 seconds or so, you always lost your spell when attacked by anything. Infact its that way in most mmo's which creates a nice ballance.
How silly is it, that a 9ft tauren warrior can pound on a gnome mage with hit 2hande dhammer over and over and the gnome be able to concentrate on their spell?
I like what I have seen in my short time playing war so far. I cant just run all over the battlefield and fire off insta cast spells. I have to make tactical decisions which will effect the outcome of the fight. If I am in trouble I sprint away... but if I sprint I will become tired and will take a longer to recover before I can take any other action again which includes casting, or I can stand there and cast until a tank gets to me and hope for team mates to come over and assist me in dealing with the assailant. Those are decisions, wow you just run around and fire off shield renew pom CoH and fire off the oh so hard to cast 1.5 sec flash heal. I hate easy insta cast spells on primary casters, how hard is it to play a "dot lock" in wow when you have that macro that scans near by enemies to see if they have a dot spell casted by you on them and if not casts it on them? Here is the kicker though, if everyone has to stand to cast that stops things from becoming a crouching tiger hidden dragon type mess with people jumping all over the place during combat. Want to hear another possiable cool element? If you create stand to cast and spell interupt, you can then have primary tanks "BLOCK" for casters in their party. Since block rates are never 100% you now give defensive tanks a role in protecting their casters while not turning casters into untouchable killing machines because they still have a % chance of interuption. This creates a use for both offensive and defensive tanks in a group. Its quite thrilling too. I used to play a healer and have 4 offensive melee on me and my tank defending me with his shield and fighting off the attackers. so then their group has to make a tactical decision to send more people to attack me, disable my tank and THEN kill me or divert their whole attack to fine another target. I like to be beaten by decisions other people make and proper execution. Gathering your group together after the combat and talking about what decisions you could have made to throw the fight in your favor. War (according to the devs I have spoken to) will bring us this type of combat. player skill and tactical decision making will reward you with wins and losses. if you want things overly simplistic and easy you may want to try another game. if you want to test your skill to become the best, you may want to check out EAmythics upcommin mmo.
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Originally posted by kraiden You can then have primary tanks "BLOCK" for casters in their party. Since block rates are never 100% you now give defensive tanks a role in protecting their casters while not turning casters into untouchable killing machines because they still have a % chance of interuption.
So, if I understand it, there is collision detection, so a tank can actually protect a caster, but the caster doesn't suffer from friendly fire, or LOS issues trying to fling that fireball through the tank?
Or is it just an intercept ability a la DAoC, where you have X% chance to block an incoming attack for your target?
No. Collision detection means that enemies cant run through your tank to get too you, but has to kill him of get past him. How well this actually works is to be seen though. The CD will not stop spells or other ranged abilities.
I dont know about any gamebreaking features in WAR, but there are things I have thoughts and worries about. Most of the worreies seem to be for nothing though, as Mythic seem to think the same way I do.
The combat as a whole is hard to design and its impossible to say how well it'll turn out. If it turns out bad though, it could be gamebreaking. But, with what we've heard so far and from what I know about Mythic, there is reason to be optimistic.
Originally posted by Zappy No. Collision detection means that enemies cant run through your tank to get too you, but has to kill him of get past him. How well this actually works is to be seen though. The CD will not stop spells or other ranged abilities.
i personally feel that strategical PvP will be a god send, i had a warrior in WoW and i hated the fact that i couldnt taunt players and had to respec to MS spec to even be remotely useful in pvp, i tried the EQ2 PvP and though i was only in the late teens i got taunted by an enemy warrior so i couldnt cast on the ranger that was doing mad dps to me and i died fairly quickly as it should be as i was playing necromancer at the time, casters are not called squishies for no reason, they shouldnt be able to run around 20 or so players casting off multiple insta cast spells and making warrior's cry imho lol. the combat you describe kraiden sounds a dream and i am really counting the days now, and i hope they do get the collision detection to work properly so theoreticly you could have a shaman within a ring of tanks and the tanks can actually TANK lol
Originally posted by kraiden To add my 2 cents to the poster two post above me. Most of your points of intrest would lead me to belive you may have not played many other games, except wow. Why hello to you too Mr Staff Writer :P Let me see, first mmo was shadowbane, went from shadowbane to star wars galaxies, Asherons Call somewhere in there...started playing DAOC, off to WoW, back to daoc and back to WoW again. So to be fair I think Ive played enough mmos to get the gist of RPG's. Stand to cast is a core ability in basic rpg's not even online or console games... RPG's in general. What? Stand to cast is a core ability? Says who? Lets be real about this. Just because something has been one way for quite sometime doesnt mean that is how it SHOULD BE FOR ALL TIME. Where you see something that has always been and may always will be, I see the possibility for change. I think its a sad day when the only way a game designer beleives he can balance meleeVScaster is by making it where the caster cannot cast while being hit. In simpler terms the whole fight comes down to Range. The melee trys to get to the caster while the caster trys to either run and do nothing or cast and burn down the melee before they are in range to get beat down.I loved daoc but I think WoW did this part better. Not only were there more CC options for every class but there were also counters to the CC and other abilities such as charge that made it fair for melee.Spell interuption and stand to cast are part of what playing a caster are all about. WoW in my opinion has seriously thrown off the ballance and concept of pvp because of these facts.In your opinion obviously. I beleive WoW improved upon this since DAOC. Go back and watch old dark age of camelot videos, casters would cast 2.5 sec casting time spells all the time, some spells where even 4 and 6 sec cast times and primary casters had NO insta cast spells and save for a special ability on a 20 minute timer that lasted for 10 seconds or so, you always lost your spell when attacked by anything. Yeah that was completely lame. Infact its that way in most mmo's which creates a nice ballance. Nice balance? Come on man, be real. "RANGE" being the IWIN between melee and Casters is a sad excuse of balance and game design. How silly is it, that a 9ft tauren warrior can pound on a gnome mage with hit 2hande dhammer over and over and the gnome be able to concentrate on their spell? How silly is it that a warrior can see who there running after all the while there eyeballs are being burnt out of there skull? Please leave the Real Life Theorycrafting out of this discussion. I like what I have seen in my short time playing war so far. I cant just run all over the battlefield and fire off insta cast spells. I have to make tactical decisions which will effect the outcome of the fight. If I am in trouble I sprint away... but if I sprint I will become tired and will take a longer to recover before I can take any other action again which includes casting, or I can stand there and cast until a tank gets to me and hope for team mates to come over and assist me in dealing with the assailant. Those are decisions, wow you just run around and fire off shield renew pom CoH and fire off the oh so hard to cast 1.5 sec flash heal. I hate easy insta cast spells on primary casters, how hard is it to play a "dot lock" in wow when you have that macro that scans near by enemies to see if they have a dot spell casted by you on them and if not casts it on them? Here is the kicker though, if everyone has to stand to cast that stops things from becoming a crouching tiger hidden dragon type mess with people jumping all over the place during combat. Want to hear another possiable cool element? If you create stand to cast and spell interupt, you can then have primary tanks "BLOCK" for casters in their party. Since block rates are never 100% you now give defensive tanks a role in protecting their casters while not turning casters into untouchable killing machines because they still have a % chance of interuption. This creates a use for both offensive and defensive tanks in a group. Its quite thrilling too. I used to play a healer and have 4 offensive melee on me and my tank defending me with his shield and fighting off the attackers. so then their group has to make a tactical decision to send more people to attack me, disable my tank and THEN kill me or divert their whole attack to fine another target. I like to be beaten by decisions other people make and proper execution. Gathering your group together after the combat and talking about what decisions you could have made to throw the fight in your favor. War (according to the devs I have spoken to) will bring us this type of combat. player skill and tactical decision making will reward you with wins and losses. if you want things overly simplistic and easy you may want to try another game. if you want to test your skill to become the best, you may want to check out EAmythics upcommin mmo. Take my previous post with a grain of salt as what I mentioned were only POSSIBLE downsides or WAR. I am pretty sure that WAR will still be the next best thing and more importantly for me at least, my next mmo WAR is comming
Quite frankly, I could care less about the finer mechanics of what combat in WAR will be like right now.
The most important consideration for me is that in WAR I will be able to progress through the game doing whatever I want...I don't have to pve to level and get good gear so I can compete in pvp. I won't have to sit around "LFG" for hours so I can get decent xp. I can go about it pretty much however I want...Mythic seems devoted to giving players plenty of options on how they go about advancing through the game.
The other big point I love...everything you do matters. Every player you kill, every quest you complete...it all goes toward the overall war effort. No longer are you just playing to get phat lewts and make your character look cool, you're constantly striving to keep the enemy off your lands and invade his. You're a part of something far bigger than yourself, a group effort involving thousands of allies against thousands of enemies. You don't do scenario battles to get a token or two and some honor points so you can buy yourself a new piece of armor. You do them to deny your enemy passage into your lands, to kick them out of your capital, etc. You wanna open world pvp? Go for it, that helps the war effort too...you don't get docked or penalized for it, Gork and Mork will smile on you for it. You wanna pve? Go for it, the war effort needs supplies, powerful artifacts, and other fun trinkets. No matter what road you take, you can level doing it, get gear doing it, and have fun. THAT is why I can't wait for WAR, all other considerations for me are secondary.
I'm all for stand-and-cast a la DAoC, to be honest. Casters are supposed to take time to cast their spells, that is the nature of the beast. That is the "cost" of dealing the damage that they do. WoW's system had waaay too many instacasts, the mages in PvP are typically jumping around like jumping jacks casting instacasts, and it is very lame. WoW did it that way to make PvP more jumpy, more twitchy and so forth, but it's hardly authentic to what casters are supposed to be, and frankly is quite silly in some respects (mages are not supposed to be jumping jacks, they are supposed to be folks who are standing and delivering).
I have played a Mage type class in every single MMO I have ever played in. I never quit games until I hit the level cap and trys one end game because I like to be able to compare the way certain games do thing compared to others. I took a Red Mage, Black Mage, White Mage and Summoner in FFXI to 75. In WoW I took my troll Mage to 70. In Vanguard I took a Blood Mage to 50 and quit about a week later. One thing I noticed is that in Vanguard you are highly over powered as a caster because they let you move while casting. Spells naturally do more damage than melee weapons do and the fact that by the time a melee gets near you in Vanguard it is pretty much over for him. This being said I will admit that in most games the casters do become overpowered for a time being and I honestly believe we as a whole should have to stand still to cast. Like the other poster said, the "cost" of being able to cast these spells that do mass amounts of damage is immovability. I should not have a ton of instant cast spells. The more powerful the spell, the longer it should take to charge up. Just an opinion, coming directly from somebody who has been playing the caster classes through end game content for years. Take it for what it is worth.
I mean, things should change! I think it would be great if mages did not have to use magic points anymore. for far too long has magic been hampered by silly magic points or spell memorization system! Mages should be able to fight indefinatly like melee can!
See that really wouldnt make much sense. Wizards and warriors have existed in pretty much the same way for 28 years now. Theres a reason why they are the way they are.
Theres alot of hybridization (my new word) that goes on in world of warcraft. Too many classes have too many abilities and charachteristics that in normal rpg's would be associated with other classes.
For instance... how much sense does it make that the top 4 classes for CC in wow, are also the top 4 classes for damage? (mage,rogue,lock,hunter)
I could spec a firemage to not lose casting time, and litterally "tank" a warrior toe to toe. he would hit me for 500 with a 4 sec delay weapon, and i would hit him back for a 900 fireball every 2 sec. same can be done with monsters. My fire mage pretty much can nuke a monster my level from 100%-0% all while the monster is hitting me. Wheres the tactics and decision making in that?
Im more of a traditionalist, I like for my healer to be totally helpless but when paired with a group turns into a borderline "overpowered" class (which is what healers really SHOULD be)
Healing should be 2-4 times more effective than damage dealing magic. Heck in D&D your rolling 3d6 for damage dealing spells and 3D8 for heals... and you get more healing spells than damage dealing.
Wow spoiled alot of people in its approach to pvp. When I read the message boards and hear people complain that 1.5 cast spells are "too difficult to cast" in pvp it makes me scratch my head. The popular phrase is "wow is not built around 1v1" . While a popular saying, its not really true. The entire game is actually ballanced around 1v1 pve. The entire game mechanic system and class system is ballanced towards 1v1 pve. making it so any class can solo monsters their level and complete quests to level up and farm reputation.
The "holy trinity" in wow is thrown off kielter for this reason.
Stand to cast and aim to shoot are things i like in games. I also like the philosophy that the more damage you can deal the less you can take. Having plate wearing dual weilding high damage dealing tanks makes no sense, but having a high hitpoint having but chain mail wearing light tanks bezerker type, does. Also the more damage you can deal the less utility you have, that makes sense to me too. The Pyro mage that blows people up in 3 hits, shouldnt be able to toss out group buffs, have, CC, nearsight,group magic nagation buffs and so forth. But the Water mage who deals signifigantly les damage... well he should! As long as things are ballanced and make sense to core pvp, it makes sense to me. Ballance the game class vs class and group vs group, realm vs realm and it works for me,
Tell someone from vanguard or WoW that in daoc casters had
Stand to cast
spells are between 2.0 sec and 3.5 sec casting time
You lose your spell if hit by anything (this includes aggro from grey monsters and spells that have no effect on you)
Damage dealing mages have close to No CC, classes with CC have no damage
CC can only be applied once per MINUTE
Primary tanks have 3-4 times the HP of caasters and 15% magic resistance
Light tanks can kill casters in under 5 seconds.
Archers and Rogues can insta kill casters
they would prob think the game was bad and biased against casters when actually the trend the last 2 years of the game is to run caster heavy and kite and heal really well, when this is pretty much standard accross most rpg's for the last 28 years.
The only thing you guys should worry about is if Durahell decides to not play this game. If he doesn't play this then /petition!
I have too ^^ Already have guild worked out
$OE lies list http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0 " And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
So far, the PVP system looks excellent. I'm only a bit worried about the PVE system. from what I have seen so far, it doesn't really look all that special. sure, one could argue WAR is a pvp game, but I would like them to be innovative on both PVP and PvE.
Comments
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
Yes I was playing a shaman, who imo was more of a hot+dot type than a direct anything. more like the daoc shaman class was, only with mentalist quality hots. The DEPTH of the spells was just amazing. Things you would NEVER think about are around to add ned strategy not yet seen before in normal mmo's.
How many times have you seen a dot you place on an enemy that heals your party menbers that are around the target?? Ever see a taunt that actually works in pvp... yell very bad things at a person until they become so distracted they do less damage to everyone else EXCEPT you! what a great idea, you give them the "strong option" to attack you, but you dont take control of the charachter to make them do something they dont want to do.
one thing I can see happening in this game though, anyone remember "gank groups" from daoc? form a perfect group of smart players and spec them in ways that support the group and you can take on twice your number or ungrouped people? well this is a game where you get stronger the longer a fight goes on... imagine what happens when you constantly have 1 group that is winning by beating other groups in the area?
I wouldnt worry about how healers and healing and groups will adapt in the game. Things will be implimented in a way that favors battle according to the devs. Imagine a wow priest that can only use renew to heal with. They could in theory sit in the back and cast renew and heal and keep people alive against common attacks. Now imagine they could use shadow and nuke to heal the entire party with improves vampyric embrace to go along with that renew, and if you deal enough damage to 1 target you will also be ablt to use Flash and greater heal in addition to your renew HoT and each time you get a critical from attacking it triggered a group buff that added health and action point regen bonus for 10 seconds and every time you deliver a killing blow to an opponent your group gained 10% damage boost for 10 seconds? I dobut they would "force" you to sit back and play "namby pamby" type healer. The game is being designed to allow anyone to succeed lets not forget, and also for everyone to kill and thrive in chaotic war!
-Hasani-
hahaha! That sounds simply amazing
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Well as it has already been said, we won't really hear anything "bad" until a more biased player base is beta testing the game. Right now the devs and a select few are the only ones testing it and they are under NDA as well as the fact that they arent going to come post negative feedback about their own game.
Personally I think the "bad" things we will hear from folks will all be personal opinion stuff, like "The graphics look too much like Warhammer miniatures" or "Why is the interface similar to WoW's interface?" or "Collision detection pisses me off because i cant get to the caster right away i have to kill the tanks, whaaaa"
The feedback I am looking forward to hearing about is:
- gameplay (balanced? creative? end game?)
- RvR/PvP (is the game truly focused on these?)
- items vs skill (will the game favor item unbalance versus skill?)
- feel (does it feel like warhammer fantasy?)
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
Before I bring up what COULD POSSIBLY be a problem with WAR let me make it clear Im a huge WAR fan and Im not looking for a flamewar. Disagree with me, converse with me-- but no flames k?
Ok for starters the stand to cast thing is definitely an issue with me. If your comparing it to wow, all classes had On The Run spells they could use. And excuse me but, "running with your head cut off", dont even go there. I know its the COOL thing to rip on WoW but
j u s t stop.
Priests had heal over time instants, power word shield instant,instant fear and instant dots.
Warlocks cast 2 instant dots, can have a instant fear, instant curses, instant deathcoil and proly a few other things Im missing.
All classes in WoW had very important spells or abilities that were instant so dont tell me instants dont play a large role in WoW pvp.
Secondly
Charachter movement hasnt exactly blown me away. Its looking to be a bit slow on the takeoff and stop much like DAOC was and YES thats a bad thing.
3rd
No stealthers. Yes I beleive thats a bad thing. I know that having complete invisibility gives you a huge advantage and its very hard to balance past that advantage without nerfing the class to oblivion or making the class overpowered BUT PvP imo WITHOUT stealthers is not a good thing.
4th Possible lack of Crowd Control. I love CC, what more can I say. If it has less than WoW or even less CC than DAOC, that may be a potential issue with me personally.
Having said all that, I still beleive the game looks VERY FUN and I dont exactly think any of the things Ive mentioned will be game breaking.
Anyway, the only reason I believe they don't use stuff like that is because they want it more of a SKILL based game.
Being feared, is indeed not very fun and stealth in a true PvP game just won't work. Unless magicians use it and that's the only reason I would accept for TRUE unvisibility. A rogue being completely stealthed is redicilous. They should have more of a DND or NWN kind-off stealth.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
Well, if you are worried about "biased" people playing war dont worry too much. If you have read many of my editorials I would hardly call myself a "fanboy" type. I am pretty critical and blunt about how I feel about a topic or about a game because as gamers we are passionate about our games and frankly deserve fair representation am I right?
To add my 2 cents to the poster two post above me. Most of your points of intrest would lead me to belive you may have not played many other games, except wow. Stand to cast is a core ability in basic rpg's not even online or console games... RPG's in general. Spell interuption and stand to cast are part of what playing a caster are all about. WoW in my opinion has seriously thrown off the ballance and concept of pvp because of these facts. Go back and watch old dark age of camelot videos, casters would cast 2.5 sec casting time spells all the time, some spells where even 4 and 6 sec cast times and primary casters had NO insta cast spells and save for a special ability on a 20 minute timer that lasted for 10 seconds or so, you always lost your spell when attacked by anything. Infact its that way in most mmo's which creates a nice ballance.
How silly is it, that a 9ft tauren warrior can pound on a gnome mage with hit 2hande dhammer over and over and the gnome be able to concentrate on their spell?
I like what I have seen in my short time playing war so far. I cant just run all over the battlefield and fire off insta cast spells. I have to make tactical decisions which will effect the outcome of the fight. If I am in trouble I sprint away... but if I sprint I will become tired and will take a longer to recover before I can take any other action again which includes casting, or I can stand there and cast until a tank gets to me and hope for team mates to come over and assist me in dealing with the assailant. Those are decisions, wow you just run around and fire off shield renew pom CoH and fire off the oh so hard to cast 1.5 sec flash heal. I hate easy insta cast spells on primary casters, how hard is it to play a "dot lock" in wow when you have that macro that scans near by enemies to see if they have a dot spell casted by you on them and if not casts it on them?
Here is the kicker though, if everyone has to stand to cast that stops things from becoming a crouching tiger hidden dragon type mess with people jumping all over the place during combat. Want to hear another possiable cool element? If you create stand to cast and spell interupt, you can then have primary tanks "BLOCK" for casters in their party. Since block rates are never 100% you now give defensive tanks a role in protecting their casters while not turning casters into untouchable killing machines because they still have a % chance of interuption. This creates a use for both offensive and defensive tanks in a group. Its quite thrilling too. I used to play a healer and have 4 offensive melee on me and my tank defending me with his shield and fighting off the attackers. so then their group has to make a tactical decision to send more people to attack me, disable my tank and THEN kill me or divert their whole attack to fine another target. I like to be beaten by decisions other people make and proper execution. Gathering your group together after the combat and talking about what decisions you could have made to throw the fight in your favor.
War (according to the devs I have spoken to) will bring us this type of combat. player skill and tactical decision making will reward you with wins and losses. if you want things overly simplistic and easy you may want to try another game. if you want to test your skill to become the best, you may want to check out EAmythics upcommin mmo.
WAR is comming
-Hasani-
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
So, if I understand it, there is collision detection, so a tank can actually protect a caster, but the caster doesn't suffer from friendly fire, or LOS issues trying to fling that fireball through the tank?
Or is it just an intercept ability a la DAoC, where you have X% chance to block an incoming attack for your target?
The CD will not stop spells or other ranged abilities.
I dont know about any gamebreaking features in WAR, but there are things I have thoughts and worries about. Most of the worreies seem to be for nothing though, as Mythic seem to think the same way I do.
The combat as a whole is hard to design and its impossible to say how well it'll turn out. If it turns out bad though, it could be gamebreaking. But, with what we've heard so far and from what I know about Mythic, there is reason to be optimistic.
That was my point.
I foresee a LOT of ranged dpsers in this game.
i personally feel that strategical PvP will be a god send, i had a warrior in WoW and i hated the fact that i couldnt taunt players and had to respec to MS spec to even be remotely useful in pvp, i tried the EQ2 PvP and though i was only in the late teens i got taunted by an enemy warrior so i couldnt cast on the ranger that was doing mad dps to me and i died fairly quickly as it should be as i was playing necromancer at the time, casters are not called squishies for no reason, they shouldnt be able to run around 20 or so players casting off multiple insta cast spells and making warrior's cry imho lol. the combat you describe kraiden sounds a dream and i am really counting the days now, and i hope they do get the collision detection to work properly so theoreticly you could have a shaman within a ring of tanks and the tanks can actually TANK lol
roll on beta
Quite frankly, I could care less about the finer mechanics of what combat in WAR will be like right now.
The most important consideration for me is that in WAR I will be able to progress through the game doing whatever I want...I don't have to pve to level and get good gear so I can compete in pvp. I won't have to sit around "LFG" for hours so I can get decent xp. I can go about it pretty much however I want...Mythic seems devoted to giving players plenty of options on how they go about advancing through the game.
The other big point I love...everything you do matters. Every player you kill, every quest you complete...it all goes toward the overall war effort. No longer are you just playing to get phat lewts and make your character look cool, you're constantly striving to keep the enemy off your lands and invade his. You're a part of something far bigger than yourself, a group effort involving thousands of allies against thousands of enemies. You don't do scenario battles to get a token or two and some honor points so you can buy yourself a new piece of armor. You do them to deny your enemy passage into your lands, to kick them out of your capital, etc. You wanna open world pvp? Go for it, that helps the war effort too...you don't get docked or penalized for it, Gork and Mork will smile on you for it. You wanna pve? Go for it, the war effort needs supplies, powerful artifacts, and other fun trinkets. No matter what road you take, you can level doing it, get gear doing it, and have fun. THAT is why I can't wait for WAR, all other considerations for me are secondary.
The WoW fans are going to try it, is that game breaking?
Hmm, that was a little mean to say.
I guess everyone can have their own opinion.
I mean, things should change! I think it would be great if mages did not have to use magic points anymore. for far too long has magic been hampered by silly magic points or spell memorization system! Mages should be able to fight indefinatly like melee can!
See that really wouldnt make much sense. Wizards and warriors have existed in pretty much the same way for 28 years now. Theres a reason why they are the way they are.
Theres alot of hybridization (my new word) that goes on in world of warcraft. Too many classes have too many abilities and charachteristics that in normal rpg's would be associated with other classes.
For instance... how much sense does it make that the top 4 classes for CC in wow, are also the top 4 classes for damage? (mage,rogue,lock,hunter)
I could spec a firemage to not lose casting time, and litterally "tank" a warrior toe to toe. he would hit me for 500 with a 4 sec delay weapon, and i would hit him back for a 900 fireball every 2 sec. same can be done with monsters. My fire mage pretty much can nuke a monster my level from 100%-0% all while the monster is hitting me. Wheres the tactics and decision making in that?
Im more of a traditionalist, I like for my healer to be totally helpless but when paired with a group turns into a borderline "overpowered" class (which is what healers really SHOULD be)
Healing should be 2-4 times more effective than damage dealing magic. Heck in D&D your rolling 3d6 for damage dealing spells and 3D8 for heals... and you get more healing spells than damage dealing.
Wow spoiled alot of people in its approach to pvp. When I read the message boards and hear people complain that 1.5 cast spells are "too difficult to cast" in pvp it makes me scratch my head. The popular phrase is "wow is not built around 1v1" . While a popular saying, its not really true. The entire game is actually ballanced around 1v1 pve. The entire game mechanic system and class system is ballanced towards 1v1 pve. making it so any class can solo monsters their level and complete quests to level up and farm reputation.
The "holy trinity" in wow is thrown off kielter for this reason.
Stand to cast and aim to shoot are things i like in games. I also like the philosophy that the more damage you can deal the less you can take. Having plate wearing dual weilding high damage dealing tanks makes no sense, but having a high hitpoint having but chain mail wearing light tanks bezerker type, does. Also the more damage you can deal the less utility you have, that makes sense to me too. The Pyro mage that blows people up in 3 hits, shouldnt be able to toss out group buffs, have, CC, nearsight,group magic nagation buffs and so forth. But the Water mage who deals signifigantly les damage... well he should! As long as things are ballanced and make sense to core pvp, it makes sense to me. Ballance the game class vs class and group vs group, realm vs realm and it works for me,
Hasani
Another quick point.
Tell someone from vanguard or WoW that in daoc casters had
Stand to cast
spells are between 2.0 sec and 3.5 sec casting time
You lose your spell if hit by anything (this includes aggro from grey monsters and spells that have no effect on you)
Damage dealing mages have close to No CC, classes with CC have no damage
CC can only be applied once per MINUTE
Primary tanks have 3-4 times the HP of caasters and 15% magic resistance
Light tanks can kill casters in under 5 seconds.
Archers and Rogues can insta kill casters
they would prob think the game was bad and biased against casters when actually the trend the last 2 years of the game is to run caster heavy and kite and heal really well, when this is pretty much standard accross most rpg's for the last 28 years.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "