It was a business decision, and can be changed (as Blizzard did)...so keep putting the pressure on Turbine and you might prevail.....
but not much will happen by posting here...
Well, the problem and the very frustrating thing is they knew they would get this reaction. Games that go this way always get this reaction, but they just don't care because they know it will hardly impact their sales at all.
To me this is just as wrong a thing to do as releasing a game too early as Sigil did with VG and has taken so much blame for. The same people bashing VG really should come here and have a go at Turbine as well.
Not the same thing at all. If you're thinking of dropping some reply in here, keep it smart..
"The same people bashing VG really should come here and have a go at Turbine as well." ... No.
If you want to have your voice heard - GO TO THE LOTRO BOARDS.
I have been on the LOTRO boards since 1999, different developer yes, but that is for how long I have followed this game. I am very pleased to see that if finally becomes a real game that lets me enter ME, but I am mad as hell about this decision. It is not a surprising decision though, seems to be the current trend in MMOs. Nothing good ever comes from splitting up the community, especially not by force. Point is that they could have done this a smooth way, by just having the euro-version ship in Europe and you would have almost every european player buy that version anyway...
I still think it is just as bad as releasing a game too early, not the same thing but just as bad.
My point is that the last thing we need is more cross-game 'bashing', or 'bashing' at all for that matter. It leads only to messy threads full of nothing but bandied insults.
And I have to question your statement of having followed the development of this game for the last 8 years... but I'm not up for any arguments, and this thread is starting to loop.
Why would you question that? Turbine must be the third or even fourth developer, and I am very grateful to them that they seem to finally deliver Middle Earth to us! But in what way would it be strange that I have followed the development of Middle earth online in its various incarnations since 1999? I know a lot of people who have done that!
It seems to me that this is the perfect solution for battling 3rd party gold sellers. Since a vast majority of gold sellers are from Asia, this would put an effective kink in this problem on US servers. Its also an effective means for publishing a game world wide and still get nice profits from areas that are not in direct control by Turbine. I seriously doubt that Latency is the primary, secondary or even tertiary motivator for this move.
It seems quite obvious it is a result of the deal they have with Codemaster and as such would be something they considered and decided on based on what they thought would, in the end, be most profitable. All I am saying with regard to the OP is that the idea that his little group or my little group or anyone's little group is irrelevant to large productions so accept that and move on. The projects, as do all large product development cycles, are based on the masses adn maximizing revenue not on petty preferances and incosequential groups. If you don't like it then don't play - even post that you don't like it - but drop the attitude taht because your one issue is not being addressed that it is the most egregious violation of player whatever in all of gaming because it isn't.
It was a business decision, and can be changed (as Blizzard did)...so keep putting the pressure on Turbine and you might prevail.....
but not much will happen by posting here...
Well, the problem and the very frustrating thing is they knew they would get this reaction. Games that go this way always get this reaction, but they just don't care because they know it will hardly impact their sales at all.
To me this is just as wrong a thing to do as releasing a game too early as Sigil did with VG and has taken so much blame for. The same people bashing VG really should come here and have a go at Turbine as well.
Not the same thing at all. If you're thinking of dropping some reply in here, keep it smart..
"The same people bashing VG really should come here and have a go at Turbine as well." ... No.
If you want to have your voice heard - GO TO THE LOTRO BOARDS.
I have been on the LOTRO boards since 1999, different developer yes, but that is for how long I have followed this game. I am very pleased to see that if finally becomes a real game that lets me enter ME, but I am mad as hell about this decision. It is not a surprising decision though, seems to be the current trend in MMOs. Nothing good ever comes from splitting up the community, especially not by force. Point is that they could have done this a smooth way, by just having the euro-version ship in Europe and you would have almost every european player buy that version anyway...
I still think it is just as bad as releasing a game too early, not the same thing but just as bad.
My point is that the last thing we need is more cross-game 'bashing', or 'bashing' at all for that matter. It leads only to messy threads full of nothing but bandied insults.
And I have to question your statement of having followed the development of this game for the last 8 years... but I'm not up for any arguments, and this thread is starting to loop.
Why would you question that? Turbine must be the third or even fourth developer, and I am very grateful to them that they seem to finally deliver Middle Earth to us! But in what way would it be strange that I have followed the development of Middle earth online in its various incarnations since 1999? I know a lot of people who have done that!
The first I heard about it was when they were planning on developing Battle for Middle Earth (1) and starting to brainstorm about MEO. This was only 5 or so years ago if I recall..I had the demo disks as soon as they hit shelves (with the interactive ME map and all).
The Fellowship of the Ring was released in 2001.. I'm just having a hard time believing that this game was being designed 2 years before the first movie came out.
BUT please link me to a site that shows any work being done on this project 8 years ago and I will eat my words and admit my wrongness.
It seems to me that this is the perfect solution for battling 3rd party gold sellers. Since a vast majority of gold sellers are from Asia, this would put an effective kink in this problem on US servers. Its also an effective means for publishing a game world wide and still get nice profits from areas that are not in direct control by Turbine. I seriously doubt that Latency is the primary, secondary or even tertiary motivator for this move.
It seems quite obvious it is a result of the deal they have with Codemaster and as such would be something they considered and decided on based on what they thought would, in the end, be most profitable. All I am saying with regard to the OP is that the idea that his little group or my little group or anyone's little group is irrelevant to large productions so accept that and move on. The projects, as do all large product development cycles, are based on the masses adn maximizing revenue not on petty preferances and incosequential groups. If you don't like it then don't play - even post that you don't like it - but drop the attitude taht because your one issue is not being addressed that it is the most egregious violation of player whatever in all of gaming because it isn't.
I hope you're not referring to me, but since you quoted my post, I'm not so sure. I don't have an attitude. I never even stated that I don't like the move. I'm just pointing out what is most likely the motivation despite what was published by Turbine. I plan on playing Warhammer and I hope Mythic does the same thing and I look forward to them mitigating gold selling, even if its a byproduct of some intra-company dealing.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Sad to say I wont be buying LoTRo now. The most important thing about MMO's is that you get to play with a worldwide community, this segregation stuff is insane. Guessing this will cost turbine 10000+ subscribers. I hope Turbine fixes this mess. Its a great game, what a way to ^$%# it up:(
Americans and Europeans have very different attitudes on society and the way things work.
Europeans are more easy going and understand team work gets tthings done.
Americans tend to cry more and always worry abotu themselves.
Americans also tend to be very biggoted in regards to different people. The minute they saw someoen type in french or german the flame wars would begin. ( i generalize but its ture)
Turbine is doing you guys a great service by keeping you off n/a servers.
edi** the poster above has it too.
This is a pretty close-minded statement. In replace of "close-minded" I have a few other descriptive words to use, but I think that would be a polite way of summing it up.
The hypocrisy of what you've written in the above statement speaks huge amounts.
Seperating people who live in different areas because of different viewpoints???
Any of you think this is a good idea based solely on societal viewpoints or B.S. political motives is as close-minded as the person I quote. With all the in-fighting and attitudes like the one above, this is exactly the reason why we SHOULD be having international servers, to encourage people to actually MEET people from outside their own country. Because if people like Zevian took the time to meet people, they wouldn't generalize so much and poo all over their own credibility by spouting self-serving, over-generalized insults.
The main issue is not about latency issues, varying societal viewpoints, war, political motives, etc etc. I would agree with the posters in that it is unfortunately due mostly to contractual and business issues.
Hey but what do we know. Maybe Turbine just thought that people couldn't "play well" together....yeah that's it.
Sad to say I wont be buying LoTRo now. The most important thing about MMO's is that you get to play with a worldwide community, this segregation stuff is insane. Guessing this will cost turbine 10000+ subscribers. I hope Turbine fixes this mess. Its a great game, what a way to ^$%# it up:(
Care to guess where jimmy Hoffa is? I would lay money your guess on his location is about as accurate as your guess about how many subs this would cost. ROFL, amazing how people will talk out of their asses.
I hope you're not referring to me, but since you quoted my post, I'm not so sure. I don't have an attitude. I never even stated that I don't like the move. I'm just pointing out what is most likely the motivation despite what was published by Turbine. I plan on playing Warhammer and I hope Mythic does the same thing and I look forward to them mitigating gold selling, even if its a byproduct of some intra-company dealing.
Just replying to you in terms of the speculation for why - perhaps it is gold farming but I was saying it seems more likely it is just a result of the publishing deal they have with Codemaster.
Originally posted by Vrazule It seems to me that this is the perfect solution for battling 3rd party gold sellers. Since a vast majority of gold sellers are from Asia, this would put an effective kink in this problem on US servers. Its also an effective means for publishing a game world wide and still get nice profits from areas that are not in direct control by Turbine. I seriously doubt that Latency is the primary, secondary or even tertiary motivator for this move.
It won't work. A proxy server would get around it assuming that the server checks what IP the connection is from.
Even if the client sends a packet with the machine's IP and the server drops the connection if it doesn't match, the network interface could be futzed with independent of client itself. All goldfarmers have to do is make the underlying system lie to the client and they can claim to be the proxy server IP while routing all their packets through the proxy. Or even us a memory hack to futz with the IP string in RAM.
I'm pretty sure goldfarmers who have a real monetary interest in LOTRO will go right through it. Then again, if the decision dramatically impacts sales, there might not be much monetary interest!
It isn't even the stated reason for doing so. They're not even trying to claim to protect you from goldfarmers. Which is good as far as it goes because I think that is a complete farce...
I'm inclined to agree that this is someone with a really stupid dollar/euro related plan.
It seems to me that this is the perfect solution for battling 3rd party gold sellers. Since a vast majority of gold sellers are from Asia, this would put an effective kink in this problem on US servers. Its also an effective means for publishing a game world wide and still get nice profits from areas that are not in direct control by Turbine. I seriously doubt that Latency is the primary, secondary or even tertiary motivator for this move.
It won't work. A proxy server would get around it assuming that the server checks what IP the connection is from.
Even if the client sends a packet with the machine's IP and the server drops the connection if it doesn't match, the network interface could be futzed with independent of client itself. All goldfarmers have to do is make the underlying system lie to the client and they can claim to be the proxy server IP while routing all their packets through the proxy. Or even us a memory hack to futz with the IP string in RAM.
I'm pretty sure goldfarmers who have a real monetary interest in LOTRO will go right through it. Then again, if the decision dramatically impacts sales, there might not be much monetary interest!
It isn't even the stated reason for doing so. They're not even trying to claim to protect you from goldfarmers. Which is good as far as it goes because I think that is a complete farce...
I'm inclined to agree that this is someone with a really stupid dollar/euro related plan.
you guys don't get it. serious do a google search and check all that big gold seller sites IP'S, most of them are North American IPS.
Bash away mate... The U.S. government is just as corrupt and screwed up as any other government on the planet.
The States are composed of only 300 million people... The other 6+billion people living on the planet should be able to play with 300 million measly Americans.
Globalization at its finest! Glad to see everyone getting along so well!
you guys don't get it. serious do a google search and check all that big gold seller sites IP'S, most of them are North American IPS.
Asia gold sellers not the majority anymore.
That would only mean that the servers those sites are physically stored on are in North America, not that the gold farmers are in North America. There might be someone physically in NA that is a payed middle man to handle servers but it doesn't automatically follow that the people doing the farming are here. If they're going through a hosting company they probably just need a working credit card.
However you slice it, that just reinforces what I was saying before. If they have some guy here doing the work already he could admin the proxy too. If they're here, then, well, its a complete waste of time.
Might protect the EU if (and only if) the bulk of the farmers really are in NA and then THEY don't bother to bypass the system to tap into the European market.
---
And I'm confused about what people are talking about. Europe is being cut off, not the other way around. Oceania is in the "North America" distribution, so Europeans can't play with Australians. Though the time difference made that hard in other games anyway.
Honestly, to those who say this effects the majority, that is completely absurd.
I don't see the majority complaining about this issue.
Hopefully you guys keep pressing Turbine, and they might listen. However, I don't see how this effects most people. I don't see the big deal in having to play with players from your own region. If you were in a guild or something that you enjoy, then I can understand your frustration, but this isn't the only solution. You can always make it up to yourself to find a new guild.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Comments
Well, the problem and the very frustrating thing is they knew they would get this reaction. Games that go this way always get this reaction, but they just don't care because they know it will hardly impact their sales at all.
To me this is just as wrong a thing to do as releasing a game too early as Sigil did with VG and has taken so much blame for. The same people bashing VG really should come here and have a go at Turbine as well.
Not the same thing at all. If you're thinking of dropping some reply in here, keep it smart..
"The same people bashing VG really should come here and have a go at Turbine as well." ... No.
If you want to have your voice heard - GO TO THE LOTRO BOARDS.
I have been on the LOTRO boards since 1999, different developer yes, but that is for how long I have followed this game. I am very pleased to see that if finally becomes a real game that lets me enter ME, but I am mad as hell about this decision. It is not a surprising decision though, seems to be the current trend in MMOs. Nothing good ever comes from splitting up the community, especially not by force. Point is that they could have done this a smooth way, by just having the euro-version ship in Europe and you would have almost every european player buy that version anyway...
I still think it is just as bad as releasing a game too early, not the same thing but just as bad.
My point is that the last thing we need is more cross-game 'bashing', or 'bashing' at all for that matter. It leads only to messy threads full of nothing but bandied insults.
And I have to question your statement of having followed the development of this game for the last 8 years... but I'm not up for any arguments, and this thread is starting to loop.
Why would you question that? Turbine must be the third or even fourth developer, and I am very grateful to them that they seem to finally deliver Middle Earth to us! But in what way would it be strange that I have followed the development of Middle earth online in its various incarnations since 1999? I know a lot of people who have done that!...bleh
It seems quite obvious it is a result of the deal they have with Codemaster and as such would be something they considered and decided on based on what they thought would, in the end, be most profitable. All I am saying with regard to the OP is that the idea that his little group or my little group or anyone's little group is irrelevant to large productions so accept that and move on. The projects, as do all large product development cycles, are based on the masses adn maximizing revenue not on petty preferances and incosequential groups. If you don't like it then don't play - even post that you don't like it - but drop the attitude taht because your one issue is not being addressed that it is the most egregious violation of player whatever in all of gaming because it isn't.
--------------------------------
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Well, the problem and the very frustrating thing is they knew they would get this reaction. Games that go this way always get this reaction, but they just don't care because they know it will hardly impact their sales at all.
To me this is just as wrong a thing to do as releasing a game too early as Sigil did with VG and has taken so much blame for. The same people bashing VG really should come here and have a go at Turbine as well.
Not the same thing at all. If you're thinking of dropping some reply in here, keep it smart..
"The same people bashing VG really should come here and have a go at Turbine as well." ... No.
If you want to have your voice heard - GO TO THE LOTRO BOARDS.
I have been on the LOTRO boards since 1999, different developer yes, but that is for how long I have followed this game. I am very pleased to see that if finally becomes a real game that lets me enter ME, but I am mad as hell about this decision. It is not a surprising decision though, seems to be the current trend in MMOs. Nothing good ever comes from splitting up the community, especially not by force. Point is that they could have done this a smooth way, by just having the euro-version ship in Europe and you would have almost every european player buy that version anyway...
I still think it is just as bad as releasing a game too early, not the same thing but just as bad.
My point is that the last thing we need is more cross-game 'bashing', or 'bashing' at all for that matter. It leads only to messy threads full of nothing but bandied insults.
And I have to question your statement of having followed the development of this game for the last 8 years... but I'm not up for any arguments, and this thread is starting to loop.
Why would you question that? Turbine must be the third or even fourth developer, and I am very grateful to them that they seem to finally deliver Middle Earth to us! But in what way would it be strange that I have followed the development of Middle earth online in its various incarnations since 1999? I know a lot of people who have done that!The first I heard about it was when they were planning on developing Battle for Middle Earth (1) and starting to brainstorm about MEO. This was only 5 or so years ago if I recall..I had the demo disks as soon as they hit shelves (with the interactive ME map and all).
The Fellowship of the Ring was released in 2001.. I'm just having a hard time believing that this game was being designed 2 years before the first movie came out.
BUT please link me to a site that shows any work being done on this project 8 years ago and I will eat my words and admit my wrongness.
It seems quite obvious it is a result of the deal they have with Codemaster and as such would be something they considered and decided on based on what they thought would, in the end, be most profitable. All I am saying with regard to the OP is that the idea that his little group or my little group or anyone's little group is irrelevant to large productions so accept that and move on. The projects, as do all large product development cycles, are based on the masses adn maximizing revenue not on petty preferances and incosequential groups. If you don't like it then don't play - even post that you don't like it - but drop the attitude taht because your one issue is not being addressed that it is the most egregious violation of player whatever in all of gaming because it isn't.
I hope you're not referring to me, but since you quoted my post, I'm not so sure. I don't have an attitude. I never even stated that I don't like the move. I'm just pointing out what is most likely the motivation despite what was published by Turbine. I plan on playing Warhammer and I hope Mythic does the same thing and I look forward to them mitigating gold selling, even if its a byproduct of some intra-company dealing.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
This is a pretty close-minded statement. In replace of "close-minded" I have a few other descriptive words to use, but I think that would be a polite way of summing it up.
The hypocrisy of what you've written in the above statement speaks huge amounts.
Seperating people who live in different areas because of different viewpoints???
Any of you think this is a good idea based solely on societal viewpoints or B.S. political motives is as close-minded as the person I quote. With all the in-fighting and attitudes like the one above, this is exactly the reason why we SHOULD be having international servers, to encourage people to actually MEET people from outside their own country. Because if people like Zevian took the time to meet people, they wouldn't generalize so much and poo all over their own credibility by spouting self-serving, over-generalized insults.
The main issue is not about latency issues, varying societal viewpoints, war, political motives, etc etc. I would agree with the posters in that it is unfortunately due mostly to contractual and business issues.
Hey but what do we know. Maybe Turbine just thought that people couldn't "play well" together....yeah that's it.
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Just replying to you in terms of the speculation for why - perhaps it is gold farming but I was saying it seems more likely it is just a result of the publishing deal they have with Codemaster.
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It won't work. A proxy server would get around it assuming that the server checks what IP the connection is from.
Even if the client sends a packet with the machine's IP and the server drops the connection if it doesn't match, the network interface could be futzed with independent of client itself. All goldfarmers have to do is make the underlying system lie to the client and they can claim to be the proxy server IP while routing all their packets through the proxy. Or even us a memory hack to futz with the IP string in RAM.
I'm pretty sure goldfarmers who have a real monetary interest in LOTRO will go right through it. Then again, if the decision dramatically impacts sales, there might not be much monetary interest!
It isn't even the stated reason for doing so. They're not even trying to claim to protect you from goldfarmers. Which is good as far as it goes because I think that is a complete farce...
I'm inclined to agree that this is someone with a really stupid dollar/euro related plan.
It won't work. A proxy server would get around it assuming that the server checks what IP the connection is from.
Even if the client sends a packet with the machine's IP and the server drops the connection if it doesn't match, the network interface could be futzed with independent of client itself. All goldfarmers have to do is make the underlying system lie to the client and they can claim to be the proxy server IP while routing all their packets through the proxy. Or even us a memory hack to futz with the IP string in RAM.
I'm pretty sure goldfarmers who have a real monetary interest in LOTRO will go right through it. Then again, if the decision dramatically impacts sales, there might not be much monetary interest!
It isn't even the stated reason for doing so. They're not even trying to claim to protect you from goldfarmers. Which is good as far as it goes because I think that is a complete farce...
I'm inclined to agree that this is someone with a really stupid dollar/euro related plan.
you guys don't get it. serious do a google search and check all that big gold seller sites IP'S, most of them are North American IPS.Asia gold sellers not the majority anymore.
Turbine hasn't done anything good since AC1.
Everything they have touched has turned to crap yet for some reason we still seem to have some faith in them. Odd.
To quote the name of an old AC1 character. Tuck Furbine.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
The States are composed of only 300 million people... The other 6+billion people living on the planet should be able to play with 300 million measly Americans.
Globalization at its finest! Glad to see everyone getting along so well!
That would only mean that the servers those sites are physically stored on are in North America, not that the gold farmers are in North America. There might be someone physically in NA that is a payed middle man to handle servers but it doesn't automatically follow that the people doing the farming are here. If they're going through a hosting company they probably just need a working credit card.
However you slice it, that just reinforces what I was saying before. If they have some guy here doing the work already he could admin the proxy too. If they're here, then, well, its a complete waste of time.
Might protect the EU if (and only if) the bulk of the farmers really are in NA and then THEY don't bother to bypass the system to tap into the European market.
---
And I'm confused about what people are talking about. Europe is being cut off, not the other way around. Oceania is in the "North America" distribution, so Europeans can't play with Australians. Though the time difference made that hard in other games anyway.
Honestly, to those who say this effects the majority, that is completely absurd.
I don't see the majority complaining about this issue.
Hopefully you guys keep pressing Turbine, and they might listen. However, I don't see how this effects most people. I don't see the big deal in having to play with players from your own region. If you were in a guild or something that you enjoy, then I can understand your frustration, but this isn't the only solution. You can always make it up to yourself to find a new guild.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
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I disagree im sorry, but turbine has never been greedy in my eyes, I may be wrong but until I actually see some evidence im not holding my breath.
Sad but true, so very true.