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Bait and Switch
Superman0X
Member RarePosts: 2,292
Some of you may have seen the advertisment for the LOTR Open Beta on the front page. The tag line is "Play Free Now". Well, that is not the case. You may play now, if you have pre-ordered the game (not exaclty free). You may also play starting the 6th (not exactly now) for free.
Now I understand that the idea is to build hype about the game. I even understand trying to encourage players to pre-order. However I do not feel that thier advertising reflects the realities of what they are offering. This is a classic bait and switch. If the can get people to invest time and energy, it may convert to sales... because there really is no 'free' offer at this time.
So now, rather than logging in and trying the game, and deciding if I should pre-order... so I can maintain continutiy, I am going to wait a week, and then reconsider if I want to even look at this game, after one false start.
Comments
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Yes, a technically valid point.
But, for $10 you CAN play now. And, if you like the game at all, you can sub it for $10 a month. After 10 months, that would have paid for the game 100%. And any play after that, you save $5 a month extra.
So, maybe $10 is not free. But for me, it seems a pretty good deal. You get to play for a month for $10. If you don't like the game, you lose $10. If you do like the game, you eventually get the game for free and then sub at 66% of the normal rate.
Your way, if you don't like the game, you lose $50. If you do like the game you lose $50, and pay $5 more a month from the start.
Think about it.
Some screenies i saw on Ascensionguilds website.
www.ascensionguild.com/lotro/
___________________________________________
Well, it does state on the third page that Pre-Orders may start on the 30th, and that Open Beta Starts on the 6th. This makes thier advertising non-criminal in nature... and just a lowball tactic. However, it does clearly raise the point. Do I want to do business with a company that operates like this? (and yes I know that there is a difference betweeen the advertisers, and the developers).
I dont do business with companys that use spam. I dont do business with companys that practice business in a fashion that I do not find acceptable. I expect that many people avoid giving thier money to companies that they do not feel are elthical. No matter who's choice it was to run this ad campaign... it reflects on the company... and poorly.
Yes, a technically valid point.
But, for $10 you CAN play now. And, if you like the game at all, you can sub it for $10 a month. After 10 months, that would have paid for the game 100%. And any play after that, you save $5 a month extra.
So, maybe $10 is not free. But for me, it seems a pretty good deal. You get to play for a month for $10. If you don't like the game, you lose $10. If you do like the game, you eventually get the game for free and then sub at 66% of the normal rate.
Your way, if you don't like the game, you lose $50. If you do like the game you lose $50, and pay $5 more a month from the start.
Think about it.
I dont have any problem paying $10 to play now. However I DO have a problem with someone telling me that I can play NOW for FREE... and then telling me that it will cost $10. If they had simply said pre-orders can play NOW. I would have no issue. As that is the truth... and not the lie that they told me instead.
This is no bait and switch. Go to any online game store and pre-order the game....it costs you nothing. You will recieve an open beta / founder's key in your email. You activate that key on Turbine's site and bang you are in the game for FREEE! If you do not like the game, just cancel your pre-order before it ships. This I am sure of.
I am not totally sure on this one but I believe even if you pre-order from a local EBGames store where you pay them $10, you can still cancel your pre-order and get your money back I believe.
You really should get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
-Ex
Please go here. Hit refresh a few times, until you see the advertisment for LOTR. The text reads "Play Free Now". Follow the link to the LOTR site. This will give you the details... and they are NOT "Free" and "Now". They are "Free" OR "Now", you have to choose.If you are going to comment on something, please take the time to look at it. If you are uncertain of what was said, just ask. You should really get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
P.S. Participating in fraud, because you feel it is justified is just as bad as false (fraudulent) advertising.
QFT
*Laughs* I was thinking of the In-Store boxes. Should have remembered. I ordered from Amazon and have not been charged. Of course, I cannot cancel the order, but that's ok. Had been in the real Beta and new the game was high-quality.
If you are going to comment on something, please take the time to look at it. If you are uncertain of what was said, just ask. You should really get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
Ok, I did this.
Takes me to a Page where it says "Join the World Tour .... For Free"
I click the World Tour icon, and I go to a place where I can sign up for a free Key and Download on Gamespot.
It seems to be totally free; no $10 purchase needed. And, you can sign up NOW. The World Tour (Open Beta) starts on the 6th.
So what's the problem?
If you are going to comment on something, please take the time to look at it. If you are uncertain of what was said, just ask. You should really get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
P.S. Participating in fraud, because you feel it is justified is just as bad as false (fraudulent) advertising.
How do you explain me being able to play FREE....NOW?
I can log into the game NOW and PLAY, with my pre order key. If I do not like the game, all I have to do is cancel my pre-order before April 24th when the game goes live and I have paid nothing.
I WAS very clear about what I was sure of and what I was not certain of.
-Ex
If you are going to comment on something, please take the time to look at it. If you are uncertain of what was said, just ask. You should really get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
Ok, I did this.
Takes me to a Page where it says "Join the World Tour .... For Free"
I click the World Tour icon, and I go to a place where I can sign up for a free Key and Download on Gamespot.
It seems to be totally free; no $10 purchase needed. And, you can sign up NOW. The World Tour (Open Beta) starts on the 6th.
So what's the problem?
So.. try playing NOW for FREE.
You can play for FREE on the 6th.... OR You can play NOW for $10. However you can not do both. (And stating that you can steal a key doesnt change this).
The have advertised a service, a time, and a cost. However what you can actually get is different than what they have advertised. They could have said "Play NOW (for $10) or Play Free (on the 6th)" . They didnt. They said "Play FREE NOW!" Note there was no mention of signing up (i.e. Sign up NOW!).
Please go here. Hit refresh a few times, until you see the advertisment for LOTR. The text reads "Play Free Now". Follow the link to the LOTR site. This will give you the details... and they are NOT "Free" and "Now". They are "Free" OR "Now", you have to choose.If you are going to comment on something, please take the time to look at it. If you are uncertain of what was said, just ask. You should really get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
P.S. Participating in fraud, because you feel it is justified is just as bad as false (fraudulent) advertising.
How do you explain me being able to play FREE....NOW?
I can log into the game NOW and PLAY, with my pre order key. If I do not like the game, all I have to do is cancel my pre-order before April 24th when the game goes live and I have paid nothing.
I WAS very clear about what I was sure of and what I was not certain of.
-Ex
Your Pre-Order Key is not Free. It is included in the purchase cost of the game. If you intend to defraud the merchant by using it, and canceling the purchase... that is basiclly theft. It is also not part of the advertising campaign that they are running. There is no "Play Free Now (by defrauding merchants)" advertisment. They are very clear that you either pay to play today, or you wait to play for free on the 6th.
The fact that you believe it is required to commit fraud in order to match what is being advertised is just a clear indication that you do believe this is fraudulent advertising (but it is fraud that you are willing to match).
If you are going to comment on something, please take the time to look at it. If you are uncertain of what was said, just ask. You should really get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
Ok, I did this.
Takes me to a Page where it says "Join the World Tour .... For Free"
I click the World Tour icon, and I go to a place where I can sign up for a free Key and Download on Gamespot.
It seems to be totally free; no $10 purchase needed. And, you can sign up NOW. The World Tour (Open Beta) starts on the 6th.
So what's the problem?
So.. try playing NOW for FREE.
You can play for FREE on the 6th.... OR You can play NOW for $10. However you can not do both. (And stating that you can steal a key doesnt change this).
The have advertised a service, a time, and a cost. However what you can actually get is different than what they have advertised. They could have said "Play NOW (for $10) or Play Free (on the 6th)" . They didnt. They said "Play FREE NOW!" Note there was no mention of signing up (i.e. Sign up NOW!).
Jeeze, man. That's just anal. To picky and 'lawyer-ish' for my tastes. If you want to play for free, you can. If you want to get the benifits of the Pre-Order program, you can. If you want to just do the normal order route, you can.
But to trash the whole game because the add is 6 or 7 days out of scope, seems, well odd.
Just come back on the 6th, and everything will be 100% accurate.
There are 2 ways to play NOW, both of them require pre-ordering. If you pre-order at an online store they do NOT charge your anything until the game ships but they send you your key via email right away. (READ: I can cancel my order before it shops and owe nothing)
OR
You can go to a local store and PAY $10 (READ: to get the key). I believe (READ: I am not certain of this) that you can cancel your pre-order (READ: go back to the store and tell them you changed your mind) and I believe they will refund your money. The refund is the part I am not sure about. But if you do it the other way you pay NOTHING.
So technically you can play for FREE NOW.
-Ex
If you are going to comment on something, please take the time to look at it. If you are uncertain of what was said, just ask. You should really get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
Ok, I did this.
Takes me to a Page where it says "Join the World Tour .... For Free"
I click the World Tour icon, and I go to a place where I can sign up for a free Key and Download on Gamespot.
It seems to be totally free; no $10 purchase needed. And, you can sign up NOW. The World Tour (Open Beta) starts on the 6th.
So what's the problem?
So.. try playing NOW for FREE.
You can play for FREE on the 6th.... OR You can play NOW for $10. However you can not do both. (And stating that you can steal a key doesnt change this).
The have advertised a service, a time, and a cost. However what you can actually get is different than what they have advertised. They could have said "Play NOW (for $10) or Play Free (on the 6th)" . They didnt. They said "Play FREE NOW!" Note there was no mention of signing up (i.e. Sign up NOW!).
Jeeze, man. That's just anal. To picky and 'lawyer-ish' for my tastes. If you want to play for free, you can. If you want to get the benifits of the Pre-Order program, you can. If you want to just do the normal order route, you can.
But to trash the whole game because the add is 6 or 7 days out of scope, seems, well odd.
Just come back on the 6th, and everything will be 100% accurate.
I can order the game... and after recieving it I can cancel payment on the credit card. This will result in me getting the game for free...
I can also just walk into a store and take a copy (when on the shelf) and walk out without paying it...
Both of these methods are generally considered criminal... but that doesnt make them unachievalbe. Your statement that I should commit fraud (just as much a crime as the first two examples) because they have chosen to advertise something that is not true... in order to make it true is just silly. If a crime (no matter how minor) is required to make advertising claims correct... then they are basically false.
Just like installing a copy of Windows on a friends computer is free.
When you pre-order, you are given the key as part of the purchase. Using that key, then canceling the purchsase is fraud.
Yes, I understand that no one is going to come to my door and do anything about it. It is not worth the time and effort on the merchants part to even follow up on it. However that does not make it right. Scamming someone (even it if is a company) just because it will not have repurcussions is not something I intend to do....
If you are going to comment on something, please take the time to look at it. If you are uncertain of what was said, just ask. You should really get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
Ok, I did this.
Takes me to a Page where it says "Join the World Tour .... For Free"
I click the World Tour icon, and I go to a place where I can sign up for a free Key and Download on Gamespot.
It seems to be totally free; no $10 purchase needed. And, you can sign up NOW. The World Tour (Open Beta) starts on the 6th.
So what's the problem?
So.. try playing NOW for FREE.
You can play for FREE on the 6th.... OR You can play NOW for $10. However you can not do both. (And stating that you can steal a key doesnt change this).
The have advertised a service, a time, and a cost. However what you can actually get is different than what they have advertised. They could have said "Play NOW (for $10) or Play Free (on the 6th)" . They didnt. They said "Play FREE NOW!" Note there was no mention of signing up (i.e. Sign up NOW!).
Jeeze, man. That's just anal. To picky and 'lawyer-ish' for my tastes. If you want to play for free, you can. If you want to get the benifits of the Pre-Order program, you can. If you want to just do the normal order route, you can.
But to trash the whole game because the add is 6 or 7 days out of scope, seems, well odd.
Just come back on the 6th, and everything will be 100% accurate.
I can order the game... and after recieving it I can cancel payment on the credit card. This will result in me getting the game for free...
I can also just walk into a store and take a copy (when on the shelf) and walk out without paying it...
Both of these methods are generally considered criminal... but that doesnt make them unachievalbe. Your statement that I should commit fraud (just as much a crime as the first two examples) because they have chosen to advertise something that is not true... in order to make it true is just silly. If a crime (no matter how minor) is required to make advertising claims correct... then they are basically false.
What in hell are you talking about?
There is nothing fraudulant about cancelling a pre-order. Try re-readaing what people have posted and try even harder to comprehend it.
Turbine allowed the pre-order FOunders plan on purpose. So people can try the game ahead of time and cancel their pre-order if they do not like the product. If you don't belive that then explain to me why all the pre-order keys are deactivated 30 days after the game goes live on April 24th? Check their official forums if you don't believe me, people have asked these questions long ago and they have been answered by their own employes.
So stop acting like you know it all about how this works when you have not done your homework.
-Ex
Try this. I have assumed that you were aware of the term. However that may not be the case.
You have stated that I can take something without paying for it (basic theft). You have stated that this makes thier advertising correct (i.e. If I can steal it, then I can play both now, and for free). You have it is my choice to not do so that is the problem... and not thier statement that it was possible.
I have made it clear that if criminal activity is required to meet the goal of an advertisment... the advertisment is wrong. If I advertise free widgets... and when someone shows to collect them, I state that all they have to do to get them is steal them... that is false advertising.
There is nothing wrong with cancelling a pre-order. You can even return the box after you have recieved it. However using the key is different. Try reading your software agreement (or EULA). Ignorance of the law is no defence.
The eb games store I went to only asked for $5.00 down and said I could get the money back if I didn't purchase the game. Sound free to me.Then they should agree to do it without the $5.00. A $5 deposit, is not free. Even if refunded. I wont even adress the software agreement (as I have mentioned it already).
You sir, are a tool.
I *NEVER* implied you should try to get anything for free.
In the one reference to my own pre-order buy, I stated I could NOT return it !
You might want to review the post record before accusing someone.
And if you still think I said something out of line, then quote it directly in your next post, please.
If you are going to comment on something, please take the time to look at it. If you are uncertain of what was said, just ask. You should really get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
Ok, I did this.
Takes me to a Page where it says "Join the World Tour .... For Free"
I click the World Tour icon, and I go to a place where I can sign up for a free Key and Download on Gamespot.
It seems to be totally free; no $10 purchase needed. And, you can sign up NOW. The World Tour (Open Beta) starts on the 6th.
So what's the problem?
So.. try playing NOW for FREE.
You can play for FREE on the 6th.... OR You can play NOW for $10. However you can not do both. (And stating that you can steal a key doesnt change this).
The have advertised a service, a time, and a cost. However what you can actually get is different than what they have advertised. They could have said "Play NOW (for $10) or Play Free (on the 6th)" . They didnt. They said "Play FREE NOW!" Note there was no mention of signing up (i.e. Sign up NOW!).
Jeeze, man. That's just anal. To picky and 'lawyer-ish' for my tastes. If you want to play for free, you can. If you want to get the benifits of the Pre-Order program, you can. If you want to just do the normal order route, you can.
But to trash the whole game because the add is 6 or 7 days out of scope, seems, well odd.
Just come back on the 6th, and everything will be 100% accurate.
I can order the game... and after recieving it I can cancel payment on the credit card. This will result in me getting the game for free...
I can also just walk into a store and take a copy (when on the shelf) and walk out without paying it...
Both of these methods are generally considered criminal... but that doesnt make them unachievalbe. Your statement that I should commit fraud (just as much a crime as the first two examples) because they have chosen to advertise something that is not true... in order to make it true is just silly. If a crime (no matter how minor) is required to make advertising claims correct... then they are basically false.
What in hell are you talking about?
Try this. I have assumed that you were aware of the term. However that may not be the case.
You have stated that I can take something without paying for it (basic theft). You have stated that this makes thier advertising correct (i.e. If I can steal it, then I can play both now, and for free). You have it is my choice to not do so that is the problem... and not thier statement that it was possible.
I have made it clear that if criminal activity is required to meet the goal of an advertisment... the advertisment is wrong. If I advertise free widgets... and when someone shows to collect them, I state that all they have to do to get them is steal them... that is false advertising.
There is nothing wrong with cancelling a pre-order. You can even return the box after you have recieved it. However using the key is different. Try reading your software agreement (or EULA). Ignorance of the law is no defence.
The eb games store I went to only asked for $5.00 down and said I could get the money back if I didn't purchase the game. Sound free to me.Then they should agree to do it without the $5.00. A $5 deposit, is not free. Even if refunded. I wont even adress the software agreement (as I have mentioned it already).
All, Need to clip out the upper Quotes.
Can no longer see the text at the bottom.
Thanks
Thanks
Sutorx
You stated:
"If you want to play for free, you can."
If you want to refute what you have said... please be aware that I quoted your posting directly (with my original reply)... so that ALL of the text was clear to see. You can dispute the fact that that you said this... but everyone can clearly see that you did. (and no that is not an implication... it is a statement)
EBGames.com
Pre-order from them. They will send you Open Beta/ Founder's Key. They will not charge you until the game ships. And you can cancel if you don't like it.
-Ex