Try this. I have assumed that you were aware of the term. However that may not be the case.
You have stated that I can take something without paying for it (basic theft). You have stated that this makes thier advertising correct (i.e. If I can steal it, then I can play both now, and for free). You have it is my choice to not do so that is the problem... and not thier statement that it was possible.
I have made it clear that if criminal activity is required to meet the goal of an advertisment... the advertisment is wrong. If I advertise free widgets... and when someone shows to collect them, I state that all they have to do to get them is steal them... that is false advertising.
You sir, are a tool.
I *NEVER* implied you should try to get anything for free.
In the one reference to my own pre-order buy, I stated I could NOT return it !
You might want to review the post record before accusing someone.
And if you still think I said something out of line, then quote it directly in your next post, please.
You stated:
"If you want to play for free, you can."
If you want to refute what you have said... please be aware that I quoted your posting directly (with my original reply)... so that ALL of the text was clear to see. You can dispute the fact that that you said this... but everyone can clearly see that you did. (and no that is not an implication... it is a statement)
*Laughs*
Ok. I will restate a little clearer.
"If you want to play for free, you can sign up now for the World Tour and in six days, on April 6th, you will be playing for Free."
Don't know how you interpreted even the original statement to mean that I was condoning getting Keys by ordering products then returning them after use. Even in my own case, I clearly stated that could not be done.
I had already, in my very first post, agreed that techincally the Advert was wrong. You cannot play NOW for FREE. This is true. But who cares. In six days it WILL be true.
*Laughs* Ok. I will restate a little clearer. "If you want to play for free, you can sign up now for the World Tour and in six days, on April 6th, you will be playing for Free." Don't know how you interpreted even the original statement to mean that I was condoning getting Keys by ordering products then returning them after use. Even in my own case, I clearly stated that could not be done. I had already, in my very first post, agreed that techincally the Advert was wrong. You cannot play NOW for FREE. This is true. But who cares. In six days it WILL be true. I think you have a real problem. Last post on this thread. I am out.
In 6 days I wont have a problem...
However it was thier choice to advertise something that they dont actually offer. I think that is THIER problem...
Originally posted by jor8888
I dont get why u come here and whine, everyone gets to play for free April 6th if u like the game so much then preorder it like rest of us.
You are wrong...
Do you know how I know you are wrong?
Look at the front page... they have clearly stated "Play Free Now" (not Play Free on April 6th). This is the OFFICIAL statement... and you are just someone who posts on these boards.
(sarcasm intended)
Do you get it now? This is not about what date we get to play for free (or even that we get to play for free). This is about them makeing a bold face lie (and then explaining it on page 2/3).
Look Superman, I will try to go about this a different way.
Why whould Turbine, have companies selling their game hand out keys with a pre-orders, knowing that the customer could cancel the pre-order? Turbine would not intentionally create a situation that would cause people to break any EULA.
If you get a key now, and use it now that is not a violation of their EULA. They want you to try the game. They want you to like the game so that you keep your order and become a Founder subscriber. If you do not, then all Open Beta / Founders keys are inactivated 30 days after live anyway.
Look Superman, I will try to go about this a different way. Why whould Turbine, have companies selling their game hand out keys with a pre-orders, knowing that the customer could cancel the pre-order? Turbine would not intentionally create a situation that would cause people to break any EULA. If you get a key now, and use it now that is not a violation of their EULA. They want you to try the game. They want you to like the game so that you keep your order and become a Founder subscriber. If you do not, then all Open Beta / Founders keys are inactivated 30 days after live anyway.
-Ex
You are aware that the retail box will include a key code (just like the beta key codes) that will be good for 30 days of service. If you return the game after using this keycode, you are breaking the EULA. Thus it is possible to get 30 days free for (almost) any MMORPG. This is basically what you are suggesting.
1. Buy Item
2. Use code to get service.
3. Return item, to make service free.
When you (pre-order) the game, you recieve service in addition to the physical items. Use of that service, and returning the items (or declining to accept them) is in violation of the EULA. When you agree to pay for a service, then decline, after already having used the service... that is fraud.
If that set of little wording on the small flashing advertisement really bugs you enough not to play this game, then by all means, don't play it. I won't try to convince you to try the game and I won't try to defend the ad. It is your time and money after all, so if you decide not to play the game, then that's your choice and there is nothing wrong with that.
Personally, I would find better reasons to complain about an MMORPG. And those reasons are plenty.
Some of you may have seen the advertisment for the LOTR Open Beta on the front page. The tag line is "Play Free Now". Well, that is not the case. You may play now, if you have pre-ordered the game (not exaclty free). You may also play starting the 6th (not exactly now) for free. Now I understand that the idea is to build hype about the game. I even understand trying to encourage players to pre-order. However I do not feel that thier advertising reflects the realities of what they are offering. This is a classic bait and switch. If the can get people to invest time and energy, it may convert to sales... because there really is no 'free' offer at this time. So now, rather than logging in and trying the game, and deciding if I should pre-order... so I can maintain continutiy, I am going to wait a week, and then reconsider if I want to even look at this game, after one false start.
You HAVE to be kidding! Are you serious?
Bait and Switch?
You CAN log in and play free today... if you preordered.
Seriously.. it amazes me how people today are so ready to jump on the bandwagon.. complaining.. yelling lawsuits, poor business practices... sheesh.
_________________________________ JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Lamest thread I've seen in a long time on a site known for lame threads.
If this is the best you can come up with to attack LOTRO, then the game is sitting pretty good.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Lamest thread I've seen in a long time on a site known for lame threads. If this is the best you can come up with to attack LOTRO, then the game is sitting pretty good.
Amen to that.
Through all of my years of tabletop pen and paper, MUDs and mmorpgs, 20+ years of gaming with others... this is the craziest thing I've ever seen someone bitch about.
Lamest thread I've seen in a long time on a site known for lame threads. If this is the best you can come up with to attack LOTRO, then the game is sitting pretty good.
Amen to that.
Through all of my years of tabletop pen and paper, MUDs and mmorpgs, 20+ years of gaming with others... this is the craziest thing I've ever seen someone bitch about.
The thing is, I am not without sympathy to a true bait and switch scandal like the SWG - NGE switch right after many of us bought the Trials of Obi Wan. Hell, thousands of players actually threw down money and bought ToOW thinking they'd get this nifty Creature Handler item as well as other things. Two weeks later, NGE order 66 on the Creature Handler profession.
That my friend is bait and switch.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Lamest thread I've seen in a long time on a site known for lame threads. If this is the best you can come up with to attack LOTRO, then the game is sitting pretty good.
Amen to that.
Through all of my years of tabletop pen and paper, MUDs and mmorpgs, 20+ years of gaming with others... this is the craziest thing I've ever seen someone bitch about.
The thing is, I am not without sympathy to a true bait and switch scandal like the SWG - NGE switch right after many of us bought the Trials of Obi Wan. Hell, thousands of players actually threw down money and bought ToOW thinking they'd get this nifty Creature Handler item as well as other things. Two weeks later, NGE order 66 on the Creature Handler profession.
Some of you may have seen the advertisment for the LOTR Open Beta on the front page. The tag line is "Play Free Now". Well, that is not the case. You may play now, if you have pre-ordered the game (not exaclty free). You may also play starting the 6th (not exactly now) for free. Now I understand that the idea is to build hype about the game. I even understand trying to encourage players to pre-order. However I do not feel that thier advertising reflects the realities of what they are offering. This is a classic bait and switch. If the can get people to invest time and energy, it may convert to sales... because there really is no 'free' offer at this time. So now, rather than logging in and trying the game, and deciding if I should pre-order... so I can maintain continutiy, I am going to wait a week, and then reconsider if I want to even look at this game, after one false start.
You HAVE to be kidding! Are you serious? Bait and Switch? You CAN log in and play free today... if you preordered. Seriously.. it amazes me how people today are so ready to jump on the bandwagon.. complaining.. yelling lawsuits, poor business practices... sheesh.
Pre-Orders are not free (even if you dont end up paying). No one has stated that you can do as is claimed by the advertisement. In fact even you have stated that it is false.
How much more correct can I be? Everyone has stated that I was correct. Some of you disagree that I should complain about this... but none of you refute the facts.
This whole issue has lowered my opinion of the companies involved in the development and distribution of this game. The fact that thier 'customers' expect and condone this behavior just tells me that I should not put out any money for this game.
Why? Well, if this is the type of treatment that I can expect... then I should cut my losses now, because it is clear that thier customers dont expect anything better...
Some of you may have seen the advertisment for the LOTR Open Beta on the front page. The tag line is "Play Free Now". Well, that is not the case. You may play now, if you have pre-ordered the game (not exaclty free). You may also play starting the 6th (not exactly now) for free.
Now I understand that the idea is to build hype about the game. I even understand trying to encourage players to pre-order. However I do not feel that thier advertising reflects the realities of what they are offering. This is a classic bait and switch. If the can get people to invest time and energy, it may convert to sales... because there really is no 'free' offer at this time.
So now, rather than logging in and trying the game, and deciding if I should pre-order... so I can maintain continutiy, I am going to wait a week, and then reconsider if I want to even look at this game, after one false start.
You HAVE to be kidding! Are you serious?
Bait and Switch?
You CAN log in and play free today... if you preordered.
Seriously.. it amazes me how people today are so ready to jump on the bandwagon.. complaining.. yelling lawsuits, poor business practices... sheesh.
Pre-Orders are not free (even if you dont end up paying). No one has stated that you can do as is claimed by the advertisement. In fact even you have stated that it is false.
How much more correct can I be? Everyone has stated that I was correct. Some of you disagree that I should complain about this... but none of you refute the facts.
This whole issue has lowered my opinion of the companies involved in the development and distribution of this game. The fact that thier 'customers' expect and condone this behavior just tells me that I should not put out any money for this game.
Why? Well, if this is the type of treatment that I can expect... then I should cut my losses now, because it is clear that thier customers dont expect anything better...
Please don't. I'm sure none of us will miss you. And yes I told you many times in this thread that I pre-ordered the game, and I am playing NOW. And it cost me nothing, I did NOT have to put any money down for my online order. Is it getting through yet?
This thread is pretty silly. I never even looked at the advertising but pre-ordered the game at EBGames, got my open beta key within a few hours and am now playing for free with no billing info requested. I won't get charged a penny until the game is actually released next month.
Please don't. I'm sure none of us will miss you. And yes I told you many times in this thread that I pre-ordered the game, and I am playing NOW. And it cost me nothing, I did NOT have to put any money down for my online order. Is it getting through yet? -Ex
Yes. You have been clear. You have stated that you entered into an agreement, with no intention of meeting your end. You have clearly stated that you are a liar, and a thief... and you resent the fact that I do not want to lower myself to your standards.
(If you intend to pay... then it is not free, just not paid for yet. However, since you insist that it is free, you clearly dont intend to pay).
Originally posted by gimpusmons
This thread is pretty silly. I never even looked at the advertising but pre-ordered the game at EBGames, got my open beta key within a few hours and am now playing for free with no billing info requested. I won't get charged a penny until the game is actually released next month. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.
If you didnt look at the advertising, and pre-ordered the game, then you purchased a service and recieved it. That is how business works. The fact that you have not yet paid simply means you were extended credit (you were given something based on a promise to pay). You gave your billing information to EBGames.
This thread is about the fact that they are clearly advertising something that they know to be untrue. That is a problem.
Please don't. I'm sure none of us will miss you. And yes I told you many times in this thread that I pre-ordered the game, and I am playing NOW. And it cost me nothing, I did NOT have to put any money down for my online order. Is it getting through yet? -Ex
Yes. You have been clear. You have stated that you entered into an agreement, with no intention of meeting your end. You have clearly stated that you are a liar, and a thief... and you resent the fact that I do not want to lower myself to your standards.
(If you intend to pay... then it is not free, just not paid for yet. However, since you insist that it is free, you clearly dont intend to pay).
Originally posted by gimpusmons
This thread is pretty silly. I never even looked at the advertising but pre-ordered the game at EBGames, got my open beta key within a few hours and am now playing for free with no billing info requested. I won't get charged a penny until the game is actually released next month. Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.
If you didnt look at the advertising, and pre-ordered the game, then you purchased a service and recieved it. That is how business works. The fact that you have not yet paid simply means you were extended credit (you were given something based on a promise to pay). You gave your billing information to EBGames.
This thread is about the fact that they are clearly advertising something that they know to be untrue. That is a problem.
Except for the fact that you are not purchasing the pre order key. The pre order key is free from a pre order. The key you will be purchasing in the RETAIL key. If you took that key and then never paid you would be stealing. There is no theft of the open beta key, because that is not the product you are pre ordering.
You can not compare using a Windows Retail key with a Lord Of the Rings Online Open Beta key. One costs money the other is free. One is never given away, the other is being given away in magazines, by retail stores, and on websites.
There is no false advertisement. You can pay nothing now and play for FREE. That is what they advertised. To think it is fraud or bait and switch is just being idiotic. There is no fraud here. Let me repeat it again. YOU CAN PLAY NOW AND PLAY FOR FREE. If you pre order the game from an online retailer (which costs nothing, so that is free) then you can play within a few hours when you receive your open beta key (the play now portion of their ad). So PLAY NOW FREE is met within the confines of their advertisement. There is no cost associated with playing now, unless you want the convience of walking into a brick and mortar store and picking up a copy. Then you are paying the deposit for the right to have a pre order copy. No if you after that cancel your preorder you are in no way commiting fraud or theft. That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Except for the fact that you are not purchasing the pre order key. The pre order key is free from a pre order. The key you will be purchasing in the RETAIL key. If you took that key and then never paid you would be stealing. There is no theft of the open beta key, because that is not the product you are pre ordering.
You can not compare using a Windows Retail key with a Lord Of the Rings Online Open Beta key. One costs money the other is free. One is never given away, the other is being given away in magazines, by retail stores, and on websites.
There is no false advertisement. You can pay nothing now and play for FREE. That is what they advertised. To think it is fraud or bait and switch is just being idiotic. There is no fraud here. Let me repeat it again. YOU CAN PLAY NOW AND PLAY FOR FREE. If you pre order the game from an online retailer (which costs nothing, so that is free) then you can play within a few hours when you receive your open beta key (the play now portion of their ad). So PLAY NOW FREE is met within the confines of their advertisement. There is no cost associated with playing now, unless you want the convience of walking into a brick and mortar store and picking up a copy. Then you are paying the deposit for the right to have a pre order copy. No if you after that cancel your preorder you are in no way commiting fraud or theft. That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard.
Pre-Order Keys are not Free. They are Free with purchase. They are an added value to a purchase.
Just as a Buy 1 get 1 Free deal is an added value... and not 1 Free item. The requirement of purchase means that you paid 1 price for multiple items. Nothing was actually free... or else you could have gotten it without any purchase.
They are offering free open beta keys (that do not require any purchase). However you can not play using those(at this time). So they clearly recognize the difference.
I can go down to a retail store, and purchase a copy of WoW (for example). I can use the key to create an account, and get 30 days of free service. I can then return the game, for a full refund. If I do this with a credit card, I will never have paid a cent. This is basically what you are doing. You are taking the service included with the purchase and returning the purchase. That is fraud (which results in theft).
As for your aurgument that you can play for free (now) and pay later... that isnt what is being advertised, nor is it mentioned in any of thier materials. They are not offering credit. Therefore they can not use the general existance of credit (as an option) as part of thier advertising. They do clearly state that you can PAY NOW and PLAY NOW on thier secondary and terciary pages... so it is pretty clear that was thier intent.
This is what leads me to believe that this is a bait and switch. They state something clearly, then on secondary pages, they contradict those claimes, and try to upsell. That is what bait and switch is. They make an offer that they have no intention of meeting, and get you in the door, so that they can re-direct you to the real offer.
Originally posted by Superman0X As for your aurgument that you can play for free (now) and pay later... that isnt what is being advertised, nor is it mentioned in any of thier materials. They are not offering credit. Therefore they can not use the general existance of credit (as an option) as part of thier advertising. They do clearly state that you can PAY NOW and PLAY NOW on thier secondary and terciary pages... so it is pretty clear that was thier intent.Originally posted by Cabe2323
Except for the fact that you are not purchasing the pre order key. The pre order key is free from a pre order. The key you will be purchasing in the RETAIL key. If you took that key and then never paid you would be stealing. There is no theft of the open beta key, because that is not the product you are pre ordering.
You can not compare using a Windows Retail key with a Lord Of the Rings Online Open Beta key. One costs money the other is free. One is never given away, the other is being given away in magazines, by retail stores, and on websites.
There is no false advertisement. You can pay nothing now and play for FREE. That is what they advertised. To think it is fraud or bait and switch is just being idiotic. There is no fraud here. Let me repeat it again. YOU CAN PLAY NOW AND PLAY FOR FREE. If you pre order the game from an online retailer (which costs nothing, so that is free) then you can play within a few hours when you receive your open beta key (the play now portion of their ad). So PLAY NOW FREE is met within the confines of their advertisement. There is no cost associated with playing now, unless you want the convience of walking into a brick and mortar store and picking up a copy. Then you are paying the deposit for the right to have a pre order copy. No if you after that cancel your preorder you are in no way commiting fraud or theft. That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard.
Pre-Order Keys are not Free. They are Free with purchase. They are an added value to a purchase.
Just as a Buy 1 get 1 Free deal is an added value... and not 1 Free item. The requirement of purchase means that you paid 1 price for multiple items. Nothing was actually free... or else you could have gotten it without any purchase.
They are offering free open beta keys (that do not require any purchase). However you can not play using those(at this time). So they clearly recognize the difference.
I can go down to a retail store, and purchase a copy of WoW (for example). I can use the key to create an account, and get 30 days of free service. I can then return the game, for a full refund. If I do this with a credit card, I will never have paid a cent. This is basically what you are doing. You are taking the service included with the purchase and returning the purchase. That is fraud (which results in theft).
NO it is not the same thing. You are lying and I hope no one actually believes you. When you purchase a retail box of software and open it you can not return it. Because of the fact that you already have the product and would be stealing. The pre order key is not the product that you are purchasing. It can not be compared to the RETAIL key of World of Warcraft. You can not continue to play LOTRO after the open beta with the key you get for pre ordering the game. You need to purchase the full copy of the software in order to play beyond their FREE Open beta.
This is what leads me to believe that this is a bait and switch. They state something clearly, then on secondary pages, they contradict those claimes, and try to upsell. That is what bait and switch is. They make an offer that they have no intention of meeting, and get you in the door, so that they can re-direct you to the real offer.
YOU CAN PLAY FOR FREE NOW. Just because you have some non legal defination of what a pre order key is and YOU Feel that you would be de frauding the company if you cancelled the pre order does not make it true. The retailers themselves state you can cancel your pre order and they DON'T say that you if you use the Open Beta Key that you have to purchase the product.
SO don't try and force your personal beliefs (that have no legal grounds to stand on) onto others and try and state that you can not play for free now. If I wanted to I could play the open beta, then cancel my pre order and there is no fraud taking place. There is no illegal activity. The pre order key is not included in the retail package that you are pre ordering and paying for. It is a free gift. The best comparison is those Credit Card stand in the malls that say hey if you sign up for this card we will give you this free gift. You never have to use the card, you don't even have to get accepted for the credit card, but by signing up with us we will give this to you for free. The same thing with pre ordering the game. By pre ordering the game with a store they are saying here have this free CD key for giving us the chance to sell you a full product. That is it. The chance to later sell you their copy of LOTRO, not you have to buy it. They are giving you something free so that you will consider purchasing the product from them at a later date.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
NO it is not the same thing. You are lying and I hope no one actually believes you. When you purchase a retail box of software and open it you can not return it. Because of the fact that you already have the product and would be stealing. The pre order key is not the product that you are purchasing. It can not be compared to the RETAIL key of World of Warcraft. You can not continue to play LOTRO after the open beta with the key you get for pre ordering the game. You need to purchase the full copy of the software in order to play beyond their FREE Open beta.
This is what leads me to believe that this is a bait and switch. They state something clearly, then on secondary pages, they contradict those claimes, and try to upsell. That is what bait and switch is. They make an offer that they have no intention of meeting, and get you in the door, so that they can re-direct you to the real offer.
YOU CAN PLAY FOR FREE NOW. Just because you have some non legal defination of what a pre order key is and YOU Feel that you would be de frauding the company if you cancelled the pre order does not make it true. The retailers themselves state you can cancel your pre order and they DON'T say that you if you use the Open Beta Key that you have to purchase the product.
SO don't try and force your personal beliefs (that have no legal grounds to stand on) onto others and try and state that you can not play for free now. If I wanted to I could play the open beta, then cancel my pre order and there is no fraud taking place. There is no illegal activity. The pre order key is not included in the retail package that you are pre ordering and paying for. It is a free gift. The best comparison is those Credit Card stand in the malls that say hey if you sign up for this card we will give you this free gift. You never have to use the card, you don't even have to get accepted for the credit card, but by signing up with us we will give this to you for free. The same thing with pre ordering the game. By pre ordering the game with a store they are saying here have this free CD key for giving us the chance to sell you a full product. That is it. The chance to later sell you their copy of LOTRO, not you have to buy it. They are giving you something free so that you will consider purchasing the product from them at a later date.
I am sorry that your statements supporting theft and fraud have made you upset. You choice to use LARGE RED lettering just leads me to believe that I caught you red handed.. ha ha.
I am sorry that my personal beliefs (that fraud and theft are generally bad) offend you. This is a free country (at least where I stand) and you are allowed to believe anything you like.
As for the law... well it is pretty clear. I have also been clear that no one is going to spend the time trying to track you down to prosecute (or sue) you due to the nature of the crime, and low value. People break the law all the time (speeding ect), and it is often in the best interest of society to jut ignore the infractions, as dealing with them can be more of a hassle than it is worth.
You are welcome to your stolen goods... but dont expect me to applaud your activities, or join in with you.
By reading OP's posts from top to bottom, it is very obvious that he is desperate for attention. Okay you are right, you win. Happy?
Nobody cares if you play this game or not. Not especially when people have been telling you numerous different times that buying the actual retail box is NOT the only means to obtain a beta key. People have been explaining to you, in detail, numerous different times, that you CAN actually play for FREE now. Instead of comprehending what has been clearly and thoroughly explained, you resort to personally attacking the posters and continue to accuse people of commiting theft and fraud.
You wanted attention? You got some. Becacuse apparently, your posts are so pointless, pathetic, rediculous, and childish that it makes me head spin. On top of that, your arguments make ZERO sense whatsoever.
If you want to start a thread to discuss something, then at least make an effort to read what the posters reply back to you and comprehend what it was that they replied. If you don't want to make that effort, why post? Oh yeah, you are the type of "I win you lose hahaha" type. No wonder.
If you STILL do not understand where everyone is coming from, then you either have a major problem or you just want to keep trolling. Either way, it is pathetic and I personally never hope to see your kind in this game.
So it is fraud, it is theft, it is false advertising. You are happy, and you are right, and everyone else is wrong. Now don't play this game and don't buy it. PLEASE. And when next set of MMORPG releases, go over to that forum and pull this same utter garbage you have been spewing. I am sure you will receive the same kind of attention you seem so desperate to receive.
I am out. This thread needs to die FAST or be removed completely.
Some of you may have seen the advertisment for the LOTR Open Beta on the front page. The tag line is "Play Free Now". Well, that is not the case. You may play now, if you have pre-ordered the game (not exaclty free). You may also play starting the 6th (not exactly now) for free. Now I understand that the idea is to build hype about the game. I even understand trying to encourage players to pre-order. However I do not feel that thier advertising reflects the realities of what they are offering. This is a classic bait and switch. If the can get people to invest time and energy, it may convert to sales... because there really is no 'free' offer at this time. So now, rather than logging in and trying the game, and deciding if I should pre-order... so I can maintain continutiy, I am going to wait a week, and then reconsider if I want to even look at this game, after one false start.
There's a whole lot of pages and I don't feel like reading through em all lol. So what I am going to say has most likely been said
Bait and Switch? I do not believe you are correct. Bait and Switch is like what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies. There is one system in place and out of nowhere they completely change that system. What's worse they did it right after the release of an expansion pack. They got people in with one thing, then took that away replacing it with something else. That is bait and switch.
Now, You can pre-order and become a founder any time between now and the retail launch of the game as I understand it.
The link on this site leads you to a LOTRO site that says you can either join in the world tour or pre-order. If you click on the join the world tour option you are brought to a page that reads:
You're only minutes away from becoming a part of the World Tour of Middle-earth!
To get a key online and download the game software (3.9 GB), visit GameSpot today.
Don't want to wait for a download? Pick up the latest copy of PC Gamer. The DVD version of this month's issue includes a key and installation DVD.
The World Tour of Middle-earth officially starts on April 6. Pre-order now and register your key to start playing as early as March 30!
I will give you that the ad says play for free now. It should say play for free on the 6th of April. However, its not like they promised one game and gave you another now is it?
By reading OP's posts from top to bottom, it is very obvious that he is desperate for attention. Okay you are right, you win. Happy? Nobody cares if you play this game or not. Not especially when people have been telling you numerous different times that buying the actual retail box is NOT the only means to obtain a beta key. People have been explaining to you, in detail, numerous different times, that you CAN actually play for FREE now. Instead of comprehending what has been clearly and thoroughly explained, you resort to personally attacking the posters and continue to accuse people of commiting theft and fraud. You wanted attention? You got some. Becacuse apparently, your posts are so pointless, pathetic, rediculous, and childish that it makes me head spin. On top of that, your arguments make ZERO sense whatsoever. If you want to start a thread to discuss something, then at least make an effort to read what the posters reply back to you and comprehend what it was that they replied. If you don't want to make that effort, why post? Oh yeah, you are the type of "I win you lose hahaha" type. No wonder. If you STILL do not understand where everyone is coming from, then you either have a major problem or you just want to keep trolling. Either way, it is pathetic and I personally never hope to see your kind in this game. So it is fraud, it is theft, it is false advertising. You are happy, and you are right, and everyone else is wrong. Now don't play this game and don't buy it. PLEASE. And when next set of MMORPG releases, go over to that forum and pull this same utter garbage you have been spewing. I am sure you will receive the same kind of attention you seem so desperate to receive. I am out. This thread needs to die FAST or be removed completely.
I think you need to work on your reading. I have a key. I cant play (NOW) unless I pre-order. That is not free. Pre-ordering and then canceling once I have the key is not legitimate. It is fraudulent, and theft.
Since you clearly admit you are wrong (sacasm intended), why troll these forums to just annoy folks like me. I made it clear that I am monitoring this thread, and replying here. So, was your intent to just get me to post a reply? Or were you just attention hungry?
Comments
I *NEVER* implied you should try to get anything for free.
In the one reference to my own pre-order buy, I stated I could NOT return it !
You might want to review the post record before accusing someone.
And if you still think I said something out of line, then quote it directly in your next post, please.
You stated:
"If you want to play for free, you can."
If you want to refute what you have said... please be aware that I quoted your posting directly (with my original reply)... so that ALL of the text was clear to see. You can dispute the fact that that you said this... but everyone can clearly see that you did. (and no that is not an implication... it is a statement)
*Laughs*
Ok. I will restate a little clearer.
"If you want to play for free, you can sign up now for the World Tour and in six days, on April 6th, you will be playing for Free."
Don't know how you interpreted even the original statement to mean that I was condoning getting Keys by ordering products then returning them after use. Even in my own case, I clearly stated that could not be done.
I had already, in my very first post, agreed that techincally the Advert was wrong. You cannot play NOW for FREE. This is true. But who cares. In six days it WILL be true.
I think you have a real problem.
Last post on this thread. I am out.
I dont get why u come here and whine, everyone gets to play for free April 6th if u like the game so much then preorder it like rest of us.
In 6 days I wont have a problem...
However it was thier choice to advertise something that they dont actually offer. I think that is THIER problem...
You are wrong...
Do you know how I know you are wrong?
Look at the front page... they have clearly stated "Play Free Now" (not Play Free on April 6th). This is the OFFICIAL statement... and you are just someone who posts on these boards.
(sarcasm intended)
Do you get it now? This is not about what date we get to play for free (or even that we get to play for free). This is about them makeing a bold face lie (and then explaining it on page 2/3).
Look Superman, I will try to go about this a different way.
Why whould Turbine, have companies selling their game hand out keys with a pre-orders, knowing that the customer could cancel the pre-order? Turbine would not intentionally create a situation that would cause people to break any EULA.
If you get a key now, and use it now that is not a violation of their EULA. They want you to try the game. They want you to like the game so that you keep your order and become a Founder subscriber. If you do not, then all Open Beta / Founders keys are inactivated 30 days after live anyway.
-Ex
You are aware that the retail box will include a key code (just like the beta key codes) that will be good for 30 days of service. If you return the game after using this keycode, you are breaking the EULA. Thus it is possible to get 30 days free for (almost) any MMORPG. This is basically what you are suggesting.
1. Buy Item
2. Use code to get service.
3. Return item, to make service free.
When you (pre-order) the game, you recieve service in addition to the physical items. Use of that service, and returning the items (or declining to accept them) is in violation of the EULA. When you agree to pay for a service, then decline, after already having used the service... that is fraud.
If that set of little wording on the small flashing advertisement really bugs you enough not to play this game, then by all means, don't play it. I won't try to convince you to try the game and I won't try to defend the ad. It is your time and money after all, so if you decide not to play the game, then that's your choice and there is nothing wrong with that.
Personally, I would find better reasons to complain about an MMORPG. And those reasons are plenty.
You HAVE to be kidding! Are you serious?
Bait and Switch?
You CAN log in and play free today... if you preordered.
Seriously.. it amazes me how people today are so ready to jump on the bandwagon.. complaining.. yelling lawsuits, poor business practices... sheesh.
_________________________________
JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
Lamest thread I've seen in a long time on a site known for lame threads.
If this is the best you can come up with to attack LOTRO, then the game is sitting pretty good.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Amen to that.
Through all of my years of tabletop pen and paper, MUDs and mmorpgs, 20+ years of gaming with others... this is the craziest thing I've ever seen someone bitch about.
Amen to that.
Through all of my years of tabletop pen and paper, MUDs and mmorpgs, 20+ years of gaming with others... this is the craziest thing I've ever seen someone bitch about.
The thing is, I am not without sympathy to a true bait and switch scandal like the SWG - NGE switch right after many of us bought the Trials of Obi Wan. Hell, thousands of players actually threw down money and bought ToOW thinking they'd get this nifty Creature Handler item as well as other things. Two weeks later, NGE order 66 on the Creature Handler profession.
That my friend is bait and switch.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
Amen to that.
Through all of my years of tabletop pen and paper, MUDs and mmorpgs, 20+ years of gaming with others... this is the craziest thing I've ever seen someone bitch about.
The thing is, I am not without sympathy to a true bait and switch scandal like the SWG - NGE switch right after many of us bought the Trials of Obi Wan. Hell, thousands of players actually threw down money and bought ToOW thinking they'd get this nifty Creature Handler item as well as other things. Two weeks later, NGE order 66 on the Creature Handler profession.
That my friend is bait and switch.
^^^ I would agree 100% with you
I will refer you to this.
Pre-Orders are not free (even if you dont end up paying). No one has stated that you can do as is claimed by the advertisement. In fact even you have stated that it is false.
How much more correct can I be? Everyone has stated that I was correct. Some of you disagree that I should complain about this... but none of you refute the facts.
This whole issue has lowered my opinion of the companies involved in the development and distribution of this game. The fact that thier 'customers' expect and condone this behavior just tells me that I should not put out any money for this game.
Why? Well, if this is the type of treatment that I can expect... then I should cut my losses now, because it is clear that thier customers dont expect anything better...
I guess SWG is really a sour taste in many people's mouths now.... Very unfortunate.... I had so much fun in that game before CU and NGE....
You HAVE to be kidding! Are you serious?
Bait and Switch?
You CAN log in and play free today... if you preordered.
Seriously.. it amazes me how people today are so ready to jump on the bandwagon.. complaining.. yelling lawsuits, poor business practices... sheesh.
I will refer you to this.
Pre-Orders are not free (even if you dont end up paying). No one has stated that you can do as is claimed by the advertisement. In fact even you have stated that it is false.
How much more correct can I be? Everyone has stated that I was correct. Some of you disagree that I should complain about this... but none of you refute the facts.
This whole issue has lowered my opinion of the companies involved in the development and distribution of this game. The fact that thier 'customers' expect and condone this behavior just tells me that I should not put out any money for this game.
Why? Well, if this is the type of treatment that I can expect... then I should cut my losses now, because it is clear that thier customers dont expect anything better...
Please don't. I'm sure none of us will miss you. And yes I told you many times in this thread that I pre-ordered the game, and I am playing NOW. And it cost me nothing, I did NOT have to put any money down for my online order. Is it getting through yet?
-Ex
This thread is pretty silly. I never even looked at the advertising but pre-ordered the game at EBGames, got my open beta key within a few hours and am now playing for free with no billing info requested. I won't get charged a penny until the game is actually released next month.
Talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Yes. You have been clear. You have stated that you entered into an agreement, with no intention of meeting your end. You have clearly stated that you are a liar, and a thief... and you resent the fact that I do not want to lower myself to your standards.
(If you intend to pay... then it is not free, just not paid for yet. However, since you insist that it is free, you clearly dont intend to pay).
If you didnt look at the advertising, and pre-ordered the game, then you purchased a service and recieved it. That is how business works. The fact that you have not yet paid simply means you were extended credit (you were given something based on a promise to pay). You gave your billing information to EBGames.
This thread is about the fact that they are clearly advertising something that they know to be untrue. That is a problem.
It would have been 4 pages shorter, if that had been the original response.
(P.S. I get an email every time someone responds to this thread, and then come to reply)
Yes. You have been clear. You have stated that you entered into an agreement, with no intention of meeting your end. You have clearly stated that you are a liar, and a thief... and you resent the fact that I do not want to lower myself to your standards.
(If you intend to pay... then it is not free, just not paid for yet. However, since you insist that it is free, you clearly dont intend to pay).
If you didnt look at the advertising, and pre-ordered the game, then you purchased a service and recieved it. That is how business works. The fact that you have not yet paid simply means you were extended credit (you were given something based on a promise to pay). You gave your billing information to EBGames.
This thread is about the fact that they are clearly advertising something that they know to be untrue. That is a problem.
Except for the fact that you are not purchasing the pre order key. The pre order key is free from a pre order. The key you will be purchasing in the RETAIL key. If you took that key and then never paid you would be stealing. There is no theft of the open beta key, because that is not the product you are pre ordering.You can not compare using a Windows Retail key with a Lord Of the Rings Online Open Beta key. One costs money the other is free. One is never given away, the other is being given away in magazines, by retail stores, and on websites.
There is no false advertisement. You can pay nothing now and play for FREE. That is what they advertised. To think it is fraud or bait and switch is just being idiotic. There is no fraud here. Let me repeat it again. YOU CAN PLAY NOW AND PLAY FOR FREE. If you pre order the game from an online retailer (which costs nothing, so that is free) then you can play within a few hours when you receive your open beta key (the play now portion of their ad). So PLAY NOW FREE is met within the confines of their advertisement. There is no cost associated with playing now, unless you want the convience of walking into a brick and mortar store and picking up a copy. Then you are paying the deposit for the right to have a pre order copy. No if you after that cancel your preorder you are in no way commiting fraud or theft. That is the most rediculous thing I have ever heard.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Pre-Order Keys are not Free. They are Free with purchase. They are an added value to a purchase.
Just as a Buy 1 get 1 Free deal is an added value... and not 1 Free item. The requirement of purchase means that you paid 1 price for multiple items. Nothing was actually free... or else you could have gotten it without any purchase.
They are offering free open beta keys (that do not require any purchase). However you can not play using those(at this time). So they clearly recognize the difference.
I can go down to a retail store, and purchase a copy of WoW (for example). I can use the key to create an account, and get 30 days of free service. I can then return the game, for a full refund. If I do this with a credit card, I will never have paid a cent. This is basically what you are doing. You are taking the service included with the purchase and returning the purchase. That is fraud (which results in theft).
As for your aurgument that you can play for free (now) and pay later... that isnt what is being advertised, nor is it mentioned in any of thier materials. They are not offering credit. Therefore they can not use the general existance of credit (as an option) as part of thier advertising. They do clearly state that you can PAY NOW and PLAY NOW on thier secondary and terciary pages... so it is pretty clear that was thier intent.
This is what leads me to believe that this is a bait and switch. They state something clearly, then on secondary pages, they contradict those claimes, and try to upsell. That is what bait and switch is. They make an offer that they have no intention of meeting, and get you in the door, so that they can re-direct you to the real offer.
Pre-Order Keys are not Free. They are Free with purchase. They are an added value to a purchase.
Just as a Buy 1 get 1 Free deal is an added value... and not 1 Free item. The requirement of purchase means that you paid 1 price for multiple items. Nothing was actually free... or else you could have gotten it without any purchase.
They are offering free open beta keys (that do not require any purchase). However you can not play using those(at this time). So they clearly recognize the difference.
I can go down to a retail store, and purchase a copy of WoW (for example). I can use the key to create an account, and get 30 days of free service. I can then return the game, for a full refund. If I do this with a credit card, I will never have paid a cent. This is basically what you are doing. You are taking the service included with the purchase and returning the purchase. That is fraud (which results in theft).
NO it is not the same thing. You are lying and I hope no one actually believes you. When you purchase a retail box of software and open it you can not return it. Because of the fact that you already have the product and would be stealing. The pre order key is not the product that you are purchasing. It can not be compared to the RETAIL key of World of Warcraft. You can not continue to play LOTRO after the open beta with the key you get for pre ordering the game. You need to purchase the full copy of the software in order to play beyond their FREE Open beta.
This is what leads me to believe that this is a bait and switch. They state something clearly, then on secondary pages, they contradict those claimes, and try to upsell. That is what bait and switch is. They make an offer that they have no intention of meeting, and get you in the door, so that they can re-direct you to the real offer.
YOU CAN PLAY FOR FREE NOW. Just because you have some non legal defination of what a pre order key is and YOU Feel that you would be de frauding the company if you cancelled the pre order does not make it true. The retailers themselves state you can cancel your pre order and they DON'T say that you if you use the Open Beta Key that you have to purchase the product.
SO don't try and force your personal beliefs (that have no legal grounds to stand on) onto others and try and state that you can not play for free now. If I wanted to I could play the open beta, then cancel my pre order and there is no fraud taking place. There is no illegal activity. The pre order key is not included in the retail package that you are pre ordering and paying for. It is a free gift. The best comparison is those Credit Card stand in the malls that say hey if you sign up for this card we will give you this free gift. You never have to use the card, you don't even have to get accepted for the credit card, but by signing up with us we will give this to you for free. The same thing with pre ordering the game. By pre ordering the game with a store they are saying here have this free CD key for giving us the chance to sell you a full product. That is it. The chance to later sell you their copy of LOTRO, not you have to buy it. They are giving you something free so that you will consider purchasing the product from them at a later date.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I am sorry that your statements supporting theft and fraud have made you upset. You choice to use LARGE RED lettering just leads me to believe that I caught you red handed.. ha ha.
I am sorry that my personal beliefs (that fraud and theft are generally bad) offend you. This is a free country (at least where I stand) and you are allowed to believe anything you like.
As for the law... well it is pretty clear. I have also been clear that no one is going to spend the time trying to track you down to prosecute (or sue) you due to the nature of the crime, and low value. People break the law all the time (speeding ect), and it is often in the best interest of society to jut ignore the infractions, as dealing with them can be more of a hassle than it is worth.
You are welcome to your stolen goods... but dont expect me to applaud your activities, or join in with you.
By reading OP's posts from top to bottom, it is very obvious that he is desperate for attention. Okay you are right, you win. Happy?
Nobody cares if you play this game or not. Not especially when people have been telling you numerous different times that buying the actual retail box is NOT the only means to obtain a beta key. People have been explaining to you, in detail, numerous different times, that you CAN actually play for FREE now. Instead of comprehending what has been clearly and thoroughly explained, you resort to personally attacking the posters and continue to accuse people of commiting theft and fraud.
You wanted attention? You got some. Becacuse apparently, your posts are so pointless, pathetic, rediculous, and childish that it makes me head spin. On top of that, your arguments make ZERO sense whatsoever.
If you want to start a thread to discuss something, then at least make an effort to read what the posters reply back to you and comprehend what it was that they replied. If you don't want to make that effort, why post? Oh yeah, you are the type of "I win you lose hahaha" type. No wonder.
If you STILL do not understand where everyone is coming from, then you either have a major problem or you just want to keep trolling. Either way, it is pathetic and I personally never hope to see your kind in this game.
So it is fraud, it is theft, it is false advertising. You are happy, and you are right, and everyone else is wrong. Now don't play this game and don't buy it. PLEASE. And when next set of MMORPG releases, go over to that forum and pull this same utter garbage you have been spewing. I am sure you will receive the same kind of attention you seem so desperate to receive.
I am out. This thread needs to die FAST or be removed completely.
Bait and Switch? I do not believe you are correct. Bait and Switch is like what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies. There is one system in place and out of nowhere they completely change that system. What's worse they did it right after the release of an expansion pack. They got people in with one thing, then took that away replacing it with something else. That is bait and switch.
Now, You can pre-order and become a founder any time between now and the retail launch of the game as I understand it.
The link on this site leads you to a LOTRO site that says you can either join in the world tour or pre-order. If you click on the join the world tour option you are brought to a page that reads:
You're only minutes away from becoming a part of the World Tour of Middle-earth!
To get a key online and download the game software (3.9 GB), visit GameSpot today.
Don't want to wait for a download? Pick up the latest copy of PC Gamer. The DVD version of this month's issue includes a key and installation DVD.
The World Tour of Middle-earth officially starts on April 6. Pre-order now and register your key to start playing as early as March 30!
I will give you that the ad says play for free now. It should say play for free on the 6th of April. However, its not like they promised one game and gave you another now is it?http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
I think you need to work on your reading. I have a key. I cant play (NOW) unless I pre-order. That is not free. Pre-ordering and then canceling once I have the key is not legitimate. It is fraudulent, and theft.
Since you clearly admit you are wrong (sacasm intended), why troll these forums to just annoy folks like me. I made it clear that I am monitoring this thread, and replying here. So, was your intent to just get me to post a reply? Or were you just attention hungry?