Some of you may have seen the advertisment for the LOTR Open Beta on the front page. The tag line is "Play Free Now". Well, that is not the case. You may play now, if you have pre-ordered the game (not exaclty free). You may also play starting the 6th (not exactly now) for free. Now I understand that the idea is to build hype about the game. I even understand trying to encourage players to pre-order. However I do not feel that thier advertising reflects the realities of what they are offering. This is a classic bait and switch. If the can get people to invest time and energy, it may convert to sales... because there really is no 'free' offer at this time. So now, rather than logging in and trying the game, and deciding if I should pre-order... so I can maintain continutiy, I am going to wait a week, and then reconsider if I want to even look at this game, after one false start.
There's a whole lot of pages and I don't feel like reading through em all lol. So what I am going to say has most likely been said
Bait and Switch? I do not believe you are correct. Bait and Switch is like what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies. There is one system in place and out of nowhere they completely change that system. What's worse they did it right after the release of an expansion pack. They got people in with one thing, then took that away replacing it with something else. That is bait and switch.
Now, You can pre-order and become a founder any time between now and the retail launch of the game as I understand it.
The link on this site leads you to a LOTRO site that says you can either join in the world tour or pre-order. If you click on the join the world tour option you are brought to a page that reads:
You're only minutes away from becoming a part of the World Tour of Middle-earth!
To get a key online and download the game software (3.9 GB), visit GameSpot today.
Don't want to wait for a download? Pick up the latest copy of PC Gamer. The DVD version of this month's issue includes a key and installation DVD.
The World Tour of Middle-earth officially starts on April 6. Pre-order now and register your key to start playing as early as March 30!
I will give you that the ad says play for free now. It should say play for free on the 6th of April. However, its not like they promised one game and gave you another now is it?
The situation with SWG has some similarities. This is particularly apparent with the expansion Trials of Obi-Wan. SOE knew that what they were selling, was not what you would get (as they had planned changes that would take place). However those that were simply using the service were doing so under the agreement that SOE could change it at any time. So they may have screwed thier customers, but technically it wasnt bait and switch (but fraud could still be aurgued).
As you have clearly pointed out, you CAN play for free starting the 6th. However you can NOT play for free at this time. I was specifically refering to the advertisment on the front page of MMORPG.Com... which started running on the 30th. This stated that you could play for free, despite the fact that they knew it was not true (at this time). This advertisment will be correct, starting the 6th. Until then, it is simply a scam to try to get people to pre-order the game, by false advterisement... i.e. bait and switch.
that isnt bait and switch. They did specify that you have to preorder or wait to play for free on the site. Notice it says PLAY for free. There is no ad claiming that you had to do nothing to get the client. Im playing for free right now.
bait and switch would be they sell you a game described as a casual play paradise and then switch out the gameplay for hardcore raiding. See wow for details. They already have your money, they already have your time, and by the time you realize what theyve done, well youve eaten all the bait.
Some of you may have seen the advertisment for the LOTR Open Beta on the front page. The tag line is "Play Free Now". Well, that is not the case. You may play now, if you have pre-ordered the game (not exaclty free). You may also play starting the 6th (not exactly now) for free. Now I understand that the idea is to build hype about the game. I even understand trying to encourage players to pre-order. However I do not feel that thier advertising reflects the realities of what they are offering. This is a classic bait and switch. If the can get people to invest time and energy, it may convert to sales... because there really is no 'free' offer at this time. So now, rather than logging in and trying the game, and deciding if I should pre-order... so I can maintain continutiy, I am going to wait a week, and then reconsider if I want to even look at this game, after one false start.
There's a whole lot of pages and I don't feel like reading through em all lol. So what I am going to say has most likely been said
Bait and Switch? I do not believe you are correct. Bait and Switch is like what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies. There is one system in place and out of nowhere they completely change that system. What's worse they did it right after the release of an expansion pack. They got people in with one thing, then took that away replacing it with something else. That is bait and switch.
Now, You can pre-order and become a founder any time between now and the retail launch of the game as I understand it.
The link on this site leads you to a LOTRO site that says you can either join in the world tour or pre-order. If you click on the join the world tour option you are brought to a page that reads:
You're only minutes away from becoming a part of the World Tour of Middle-earth!
To get a key online and download the game software (3.9 GB), visit GameSpot today.
Don't want to wait for a download? Pick up the latest copy of PC Gamer. The DVD version of this month's issue includes a key and installation DVD.
The World Tour of Middle-earth officially starts on April 6. Pre-order now and register your key to start playing as early as March 30!
I will give you that the ad says play for free now. It should say play for free on the 6th of April. However, its not like they promised one game and gave you another now is it?
The situation with SWG has some similarities. This is particularly apparent with the expansion Trials of Obi-Wan. SOE knew that what they were selling, was not what you would get (as they had planned changes that would take place). However those that were simply using the service were doing so under the agreement that SOE could change it at any time. So they may have screwed thier customers, but technically it wasnt bait and switch (but fraud could still be aurgued).
As you have clearly pointed out, you CAN play for free starting the 6th. However you can NOT play for free at this time. I was specifically refering to the advertisment on the front page of MMORPG.Com... which started running on the 30th. This stated that you could play for free, despite the fact that they knew it was not true (at this time). This advertisment will be correct, starting the 6th. Until then, it is simply a scam to try to get people to pre-order the game, by false advterisement... i.e. bait and switch.
So what do you want us to do about it?
I pre-ordered, I'm playing now. You didn't pre-order, you have to wait. And I think you even said those were your intentions in your OP.
Is there a specific reason you're dragging this out?
that isnt bait and switch. They did specify that you have to preorder or wait to play for free on the site. Notice it says PLAY for free. There is no ad claiming that you had to do nothing to get the client. Im playing for free right now.
bait and switch would be they sell you a game described as a casual play paradise and then switch out the gameplay for hardcore raiding. See wow for details. They already have your money, they already have your time, and by the time you realize what theyve done, well youve eaten all the bait.
SWITCH!
They did specify on the secondary pages. However the primary advertising (front page of mmorpg.com) is " Play Free Now". At this time, you can only play using a pre-order key... and that is not free. So there is advertising claiming that you can play for free at this time... but that is not actually possilbe (and they know this).
Ahh.. please reference this. Bait and Switch is type of false advertising. It has nothing to do with post sales results. It has to do with offering something (falsely) in the hopes of getting the customer, then revealing that what was promised is not available... but that something different is.
The classic bait and switch is to offer a free/cheap item for sale. When the customer comes to buy it, they find that the store does not have that item... but that they can buy something similar for more.
Bait and switch is NOT traditionally about terms of service. It would be much harder to show that... as the only advertisment of such terms are very clearly in thier favor. (i.e. the terms say that they can change at will). False advertising requires that something not be disclosed. (i.e. it isnt fraud to say that they are going to change the terms of service at will)
Originally posted by Fargol
So what do you want us to do about it?
I pre-ordered, I'm playing now. You didn't pre-order, you have to wait. And I think you even said those were your intentions in your OP.
Is there a specific reason you're dragging this out?
Dragging what out? This situation exists for several more days. I can not change thier advertising, all I can do is warn others about it in advance.
that isnt bait and switch. They did specify that you have to preorder or wait to play for free on the site. Notice it says PLAY for free. There is no ad claiming that you had to do nothing to get the client. Im playing for free right now.
bait and switch would be they sell you a game described as a casual play paradise and then switch out the gameplay for hardcore raiding. See wow for details. They already have your money, they already have your time, and by the time you realize what theyve done, well youve eaten all the bait.
SWITCH!
They did specify on the secondary pages. However the primary advertising (front page of mmorpg.com) is " Play Free Now". At this time, you can only play using a pre-order key... and that is not free. So there is advertising claiming that you can play for free at this time... but that is not actually possilbe (and they know this).
Ahh.. please reference this. Bait and Switch is type of false advertising. It has nothing to do with post sales results. It has to do with offering something (falsely) in the hopes of getting the customer, then revealing that what was promised is not available... but that something different is.
The classic bait and switch is to offer a free/cheap item for sale. When the customer comes to buy it, they find that the store does not have that item... but that they can buy something similar for more.
Bait and switch is NOT traditionally about terms of service. It would be much harder to show that... as the only advertisment of such terms are very clearly in thier favor. (i.e. the terms say that they can change at will). False advertising requires that something not be disclosed. (i.e. it isnt fraud to say that they are going to change the terms of service at will)
Well, I do not believe it is a bait and switch. However, if you think this is an unlawful bait and switch and you fail to report it to the appropriate authorities, wouldn't that be conspiracy after the fact type of crime that you would be engaging in?
Well, I do not believe it is a bait and switch. However, if you think this is an unlawful bait and switch and you fail to report it to the appropriate authorities, wouldn't that be conspiracy after the fact type of crime that you would be engaging in?
It would only be conspiricy if I profitted from it ( I have no vested interest). I have publiclaly proclaimed the issue at the source (the ad is running on this site). That is enough to demonstrate my goodwill on the matter.
Note: Technically it would be impossible (without documents that show intent to defraud) to prove that this was unlawful. I would have to show intent, and with the information availble on the secondary and terciary pages, this would be basically impossible.
Well, I do not believe it is a bait and switch. However, if you think this is an unlawful bait and switch and you fail to report it to the appropriate authorities, wouldn't that be conspiracy after the fact type of crime that you would be engaging in?
It would only be conspiricy if I proffited from it ( I have no vested interest). I have publiclaly proclaimed the issue at the source (the ad is running on this site). That is enough to demonstrate my goodwill on the matter.
I don't believe it has anything to do with profit. Conspiracy after the fact is a crime of knowing about a crime and not reporting it if my understanding is correct.
Well, I do not believe it is a bait and switch. However, if you think this is an unlawful bait and switch and you fail to report it to the appropriate authorities, wouldn't that be conspiracy after the fact type of crime that you would be engaging in?
It would only be conspiricy if I proffited from it ( I have no vested interest). I have publiclaly proclaimed the issue at the source (the ad is running on this site). That is enough to demonstrate my goodwill on the matter.
I don't believe it has anything to do with profit. Conspiracy after the fact is a crime of knowing about a crime and not reporting it if my understanding is correct.
You can only conspire if you:
A. Try to conceal the fact that a crime was planned/committed
B. Were involved in some manner.
You cant conspire by publically declaring that there is a problem.
Well when you get on the website you can read about the benefits you get when you pre-order. You shoud not be able to pre-order just to enter beta ealier and cancel just like that. The benefits are really meant for people that really knows that they want to play the game when it is released.
You must be able to cancel a pre-order but seriously i think you will have to pay th administrations costs.
I dont understand why they didnt do the same thing like in europe where you can buy a pre-order package for like €2,99 ( you get beta key , dvd and the founders benefits). If you want to continue playing after release you just buy retail.
Promotional Discounts and Returns: Should you return an order that was placed using a promotional code, discount or offer, you will not be refunded for the amount of the code, discount or offer, as these discounts were deducted from the original purchase amount.
So there for the promotional discount of zero dollars off of your product to pre order the game and get the open beta CD key can not be refunded. So if you return your order you can't get the zero dollars back that you had to put down to pre order due to the promotion. No where in there does it say that you can not return the product or cancel your order because you used the promotional CD key.
When you purchase the product you are paying for the RETAIL key not the open beta key.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I think you need to work on your reading. I have a key. I cant play (NOW) unless I pre-order. That is not free. Pre-ordering and then canceling once I have the key is not legitimate. It is fraudulent, and theft. Since you clearly admit you are wrong (sacasm intended), why troll these forums to just annoy folks like me. I made it clear that I am monitoring this thread, and replying here. So, was your intent to just get me to post a reply? Or were you just attention hungry?
The only person that needs work on reading is you. So... you have a key and you can't play now. It seems like you are whining because you want to play now but you can't. Poor little kid.
Let me make this very clear to you so you can understand.
When you click on that small flashing advertisement you claim as "false advertisement," it leads you to a screen where it clearly states that you can join the world tour starting on April 6th for a free preview of this game. Now the initial ad that you are whining about may have said "Play Free Now." But any reasonable consumer would click on that link to find out what he/she needs to do to play free now correct? So he/she clicks on that link and it clearly says you can preview the game for free by joining the world tour, which is clearly stated that it starts on April 6. Nowhere in that second page does it say that you have to pay now to play. It gives you a separate button to click if you want to pre order. Only when you click there, it tells you that you can actually start on March 30 with a founders key.
This is not bait and switch. Accurate information have been given on the page where it gives the actual detail of this event.
As for your argument on fraud and theft....
Please read carefully the return policies stated on all the different merchants that are accepting pre-orders for this game. You can return and get your refund if you return the actual shipped items within 30 days in its original condition, without damage, missing parts or the item being opened. If you cancel your pre order before the actual retail box ships, then you can get your refund. This is according to the merchant that is selling this game. They are telling you that you can return the game, which also equals to cancelling your pre order. Now tell me where in this scenario does that equal to fraud and theft?
Please note that Turbine did not even have to make this offer. Lot of games only take pre orders, and the only benefit the buyer receives is the first priority in receiving the game before people who did not make the pre order. That's where that $10 comes in. You are paying for the guaranteed priviledge to receive your retail box on the first day it becomes available. The $10 is NOT for access to the beta. No companies charge their customers to beta test their products during the beta stages. Access to the beta is only an added bonus that did not even have to be offered.
So to make this very clear to you again....
The only real product that Turbine is selling is the $49.99 actual retail box version of this game. The beta CD and the beta key are not the products on sale. They are only an add-on bonus for people who make the pre-orders. As long as you do not open and use the actual retail box, you can return the game. The monthly subscription starts after the official retail version launches on April 24. Without opening the retail box, you can't play anyway.
So if you make the pre order and then you decide that the game is not for you, then you CAN cancel your pre order before the retail box ships or if you received it and have not opened the box yet. And you ARE entitled to your money back. Hence, you CAN play for free, and there is NO theft or fraud here.
Now does this make any sense to you? I tried very hard to explain this to you, and if you STILL are going to make your baseless accusations of theft, fraud, and false advertising, then you REALLY DO need help or you REALLY ARE indeed a troll that desperately are begging for more attention.
As for your final paragraph on your post...
No, I can care less if you replied or not. In fact, I would rather have you NOT reply and make yourself look like a fool each and everytime you post something like this. I would rather have this thread die or be locked.
Before asking me these questions, genuinely ask yourself who is the real annoying troll on this forum. Then look at yourself very carefully in the mirror.
As far as pre-ordering a game just for the beta key..that's pretty stupid. Also, once you open the retail package, you'll find that returning it is going to be fun. The only way eb or gamestop will take those type of games back if it's defaulty. Anyone could say that the game is defaulty and keep the retail key.(Write it down ect) This is common sense like usual. It seems most of you aren't aware of what open beta is for. This is your chance to play the game free of charge until it goes retail. Don't buy a game for it's beta key. Buy the game because you know for sure you like it. Most beta's usually end up rolling into retail, meaning characters aren't wiped. Seems to me that if you like the open beta, you'd buy the game then. Knowledge works wonders these days.
Sorry. No. What they are advertising is "Play Free Now'. Not play free in 6-12 days. The link you have posted allows free play as of the 13th of April. It is 31 March right now (and they started advertising on the 30th).
I think you need to work on your reading. I have a key. I cant play (NOW) unless I pre-order. That is not free. Pre-ordering and then canceling once I have the key is not legitimate. It is fraudulent, and theft. Since you clearly admit you are wrong (sacasm intended), why troll these forums to just annoy folks like me. I made it clear that I am monitoring this thread, and replying here. So, was your intent to just get me to post a reply? Or were you just attention hungry?
The only person that needs work on reading is you. So... you have a key and you can't play now. It seems like you are whining because you want to play now but you can't. Poor little kid. Let me make this very clear to you so you can understand. When you click on that small flashing advertisement you claim as "false advertisement," it leads you to a screen where it clearly states that you can join the world tour starting on April 6th for a free preview of this game. Now the initial ad that you are whining about may have said "Play Free Now." But any reasonable consumer would click on that link to find out what he/she needs to do to play free now correct? So he/she clicks on that link and it clearly says you can preview the game for free by joining the world tour, which is clearly stated that it starts on April 6. Nowhere in that second page does it say that you have to pay now to play. It gives you a separate button to click if you want to pre order. Only when you click there, it tells you that you can actually start on March 30 with a founders key. This is not bait and switch. Accurate information have been given on the page where it gives the actual detail of this event. As for your argument on fraud and theft.... Please read carefully the return policies stated on all the different merchants that are accepting pre-orders for this game. You can return and get your refund if you return the actual shipped items within 30 days in its original condition, without damage, missing parts or the item being opened. If you cancel your pre order before the actual retail box ships, then you can get your refund. This is according to the merchant that is selling this game. They are telling you that you can return the game, which also equals to cancelling your pre order. Now tell me where in this scenario does that equal to fraud and theft? Please note that Turbine did not even have to make this offer. Lot of games only take pre orders, and the only benefit the buyer receives is the first priority in receiving the game before people who did not make the pre order. That's where that $10 comes in. You are paying for the guaranteed priviledge to receive your retail box on the first day it becomes available. The $10 is NOT for access to the beta. No companies charge their customers to beta test their products during the beta stages. Access to the beta is only an added bonus that did not even have to be offered. So to make this very clear to you again.... The only real product that Turbine is selling is the $49.99 actual retail box version of this game. The beta CD and the beta key are not the products on sale. They are only an add-on bonus for people who make the pre-orders. As long as you do not open and use the actual retail box, you can return the game. The monthly subscription starts after the official retail version launches on April 24. Without opening the retail box, you can't play anyway. So if you make the pre order and then you decide that the game is not for you, then you CAN cancel your pre order before the retail box ships or if you received it and have not opened the box yet. And you ARE entitled to your money back. Hence, you CAN play for free, and there is NO theft or fraud here. Now does this make any sense to you? I tried very hard to explain this to you, and if you STILL are going to make your baseless accusations of theft, fraud, and false advertising, then you REALLY DO need help or you REALLY ARE indeed a troll that desperately are begging for more attention. As for your final paragraph on your post... No, I can care less if you replied or not. In fact, I would rather have you NOT reply and make yourself look like a fool each and everytime you post something like this. I would rather have this thread die or be locked. Before asking me these questions, genuinely ask yourself who is the real annoying troll on this forum. Then look at yourself very carefully in the mirror.
I am glad that you have taken the time to (independantly) veryify the situation. What you have described is called bait and switch. This is also the title of this thread, and the premise on which I posted.
Your description of them running an ad which makes claims for a service, and then when you attempt to obtain said service, only to find out that they do not offer it, but will sell you something else in its place. Well, that is exactly what I have been saying. It is so good to see that you support my complaint.
As for those that plan on using a pre-order key, and then returning/refusing the preorder, you have been kind enough to point out that the vendors selling this service, are not actually those that make this service. This means that that the EULA is what is being violated, exactly as I stated it would be. This means that those doing this are stealing, and that those doing this with the intention of stealing are acting in a fraudulent manner.
You have gone on to clearly state that acess to the beta is only available (at this time) via purchase and that they are not actually giving acess for free... but are instead increasing the value of your purchase by including additional play time. If they were actually giving acess for free, then they could not require a purchase.
I would like to thank you for taking the time to show support for my posting. I know you are aware that I am monitoring this post, and am taking the time to respond. Your encouragement on this matter has only strenthened my resolve to participate.
Sorry. No. What they are advertising is "Play Free Now'. Not play free in 6-12 days. The link you have posted allows free play as of the 13th of April. It is 31 March right now (and they started advertising on the 30th).
Odd, I'm playing it now (alt tab ftw)..... i didn't realize that i was teleported through time. If you bothered to read the link i gave you, yesterday at 7pm they even had an event going on, so, yes you can play now for free. What starts on the 13th is open beta in EU, much like what is going on now in the US. But like i said, if you absolutely positively want to "play free now" you can.
Sorry. No. What they are advertising is "Play Free Now'. Not play free in 6-12 days. The link you have posted allows free play as of the 13th of April. It is 31 March right now (and they started advertising on the 30th).
Odd, I'm playing it now (alt tab ftw)..... i didn't realize that i was teleported through time. If you bothered to read the link i gave you, yesterday at 7pm they even had an event going on, so, yes you can play now for free. What starts on the 13th is open beta in EU, much like what is going on now in the US. But like i said, if you absolutely positively want to "play free now" you can.
Well, here is what it states:
"With just a short while to go now until the game begins on April 13th there's never been a better time to sample the delights of Middle-earth before the full game launches."
I have a US Beta Key, but can not play until the 6th (the start of the US Open Beta).
I am NOT sure about how it works for the UK. I will look into it. I appreciate the offer.
However, even if it is valid (checking now), I still have a valid complaint about the US advertising.
Sorry. No. What they are advertising is "Play Free Now'. Not play free in 6-12 days. The link you have posted allows free play as of the 13th of April. It is 31 March right now (and they started advertising on the 30th).
Odd, I'm playing it now (alt tab ftw)..... i didn't realize that i was teleported through time. If you bothered to read the link i gave you, yesterday at 7pm they even had an event going on, so, yes you can play now for free. What starts on the 13th is open beta in EU, much like what is going on now in the US. But like i said, if you absolutely positively want to "play free now" you can.
Well, here is what it states:
"With just a short while to go now until the game begins on April 13th there's never been a better time to sample the delights of Middle-earth before the full game launches."
I have a US Beta Key, but can not play until the 6th (the start of the US Open Beta).
I am NOT sure about how it works for the UK. I will look into it. I appreciate the offer.
However, even if it is valid (checking now), I still have a valid complaint about the US advertising.
Aye , just thought i would help you scratch your itch. After the stress test i became hooked, a couple days later CVG was giving out 10k beta keys so i've been playing there, I now have to decide weather or not to play US (where i am) or EU version where i now have an absolutely great guild. since they lifted the only play in certain regions ban i have to choose.
The amount of time they have dedicated to splitting hairs is probably the saddest thing I have seen in quite some time.
I the O.P. isn't a victim of OCD, or a card-carrying schitzoid there is really no excuse for this type of behavior.
Perhaps a warm glass of "get over it and get on with your life" is in order??
We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started... and know the place for the first time. -T.S. Eliot
The amount of time they have dedicated to splitting hairs is probably the saddest thing I have seen in quite some time.
I the O.P. isn't a victim of OCD, or a card-carrying schitzoid there is really no excuse for this type of behavior.
Perhaps a warm glass of "get over it and get on with your life" is in order??
I may have spent an hour or so on this thread over the past two days. However, I feel that it is important to trust the game developer/distributer as they have the ability (and right) to make changes to the game.
I also have a sense of civic duty, and community. If I see someone taking advantage of the community, I speak out. That is just how I was raised (to look out for others). Not everyone has those values.
Originally posted by beauxaj
Aye , just thought i would help you scratch your itch. After the stress test i became hooked, a couple days later CVG was giving out 10k beta keys so i've been playing there, I now have to decide weather or not to play US (where i am) or EU version where i now have an absolutely great guild. since they lifted the only play in certain regions ban i have to choose.
Thank you for your consideration. I may try the European version. I dont have a problem with how Codemaster has handled this.
Comments
Bait and Switch? I do not believe you are correct. Bait and Switch is like what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies. There is one system in place and out of nowhere they completely change that system. What's worse they did it right after the release of an expansion pack. They got people in with one thing, then took that away replacing it with something else. That is bait and switch.
Now, You can pre-order and become a founder any time between now and the retail launch of the game as I understand it.
The link on this site leads you to a LOTRO site that says you can either join in the world tour or pre-order. If you click on the join the world tour option you are brought to a page that reads:
You're only minutes away from becoming a part of the World Tour of Middle-earth!
To get a key online and download the game software (3.9 GB), visit GameSpot today.
Don't want to wait for a download? Pick up the latest copy of PC Gamer. The DVD version of this month's issue includes a key and installation DVD.
The World Tour of Middle-earth officially starts on April 6. Pre-order now and register your key to start playing as early as March 30!
I will give you that the ad says play for free now. It should say play for free on the 6th of April. However, its not like they promised one game and gave you another now is it?The situation with SWG has some similarities. This is particularly apparent with the expansion Trials of Obi-Wan. SOE knew that what they were selling, was not what you would get (as they had planned changes that would take place). However those that were simply using the service were doing so under the agreement that SOE could change it at any time. So they may have screwed thier customers, but technically it wasnt bait and switch (but fraud could still be aurgued).
As you have clearly pointed out, you CAN play for free starting the 6th. However you can NOT play for free at this time. I was specifically refering to the advertisment on the front page of MMORPG.Com... which started running on the 30th. This stated that you could play for free, despite the fact that they knew it was not true (at this time). This advertisment will be correct, starting the 6th. Until then, it is simply a scam to try to get people to pre-order the game, by false advterisement... i.e. bait and switch.
that isnt bait and switch. They did specify that you have to preorder or wait to play for free on the site. Notice it says PLAY for free. There is no ad claiming that you had to do nothing to get the client. Im playing for free right now.
bait and switch would be they sell you a game described as a casual play paradise and then switch out the gameplay for hardcore raiding. See wow for details. They already have your money, they already have your time, and by the time you realize what theyve done, well youve eaten all the bait.
SWITCH!
Bait and Switch? I do not believe you are correct. Bait and Switch is like what SOE did with Star Wars Galaxies. There is one system in place and out of nowhere they completely change that system. What's worse they did it right after the release of an expansion pack. They got people in with one thing, then took that away replacing it with something else. That is bait and switch.
Now, You can pre-order and become a founder any time between now and the retail launch of the game as I understand it.
The link on this site leads you to a LOTRO site that says you can either join in the world tour or pre-order. If you click on the join the world tour option you are brought to a page that reads:
You're only minutes away from becoming a part of the World Tour of Middle-earth!
To get a key online and download the game software (3.9 GB), visit GameSpot today.
Don't want to wait for a download? Pick up the latest copy of PC Gamer. The DVD version of this month's issue includes a key and installation DVD.
The World Tour of Middle-earth officially starts on April 6. Pre-order now and register your key to start playing as early as March 30!
I will give you that the ad says play for free now. It should say play for free on the 6th of April. However, its not like they promised one game and gave you another now is it?The situation with SWG has some similarities. This is particularly apparent with the expansion Trials of Obi-Wan. SOE knew that what they were selling, was not what you would get (as they had planned changes that would take place). However those that were simply using the service were doing so under the agreement that SOE could change it at any time. So they may have screwed thier customers, but technically it wasnt bait and switch (but fraud could still be aurgued).
As you have clearly pointed out, you CAN play for free starting the 6th. However you can NOT play for free at this time. I was specifically refering to the advertisment on the front page of MMORPG.Com... which started running on the 30th. This stated that you could play for free, despite the fact that they knew it was not true (at this time). This advertisment will be correct, starting the 6th. Until then, it is simply a scam to try to get people to pre-order the game, by false advterisement... i.e. bait and switch.
So what do you want us to do about it?I pre-ordered, I'm playing now. You didn't pre-order, you have to wait. And I think you even said those were your intentions in your OP.
Is there a specific reason you're dragging this out?
They did specify on the secondary pages. However the primary advertising (front page of mmorpg.com) is " Play Free Now". At this time, you can only play using a pre-order key... and that is not free. So there is advertising claiming that you can play for free at this time... but that is not actually possilbe (and they know this).
Ahh.. please reference this. Bait and Switch is type of false advertising. It has nothing to do with post sales results. It has to do with offering something (falsely) in the hopes of getting the customer, then revealing that what was promised is not available... but that something different is.
The classic bait and switch is to offer a free/cheap item for sale. When the customer comes to buy it, they find that the store does not have that item... but that they can buy something similar for more.
Bait and switch is NOT traditionally about terms of service. It would be much harder to show that... as the only advertisment of such terms are very clearly in thier favor. (i.e. the terms say that they can change at will). False advertising requires that something not be disclosed. (i.e. it isnt fraud to say that they are going to change the terms of service at will)
Dragging what out? This situation exists for several more days. I can not change thier advertising, all I can do is warn others about it in advance.
They did specify on the secondary pages. However the primary advertising (front page of mmorpg.com) is " Play Free Now". At this time, you can only play using a pre-order key... and that is not free. So there is advertising claiming that you can play for free at this time... but that is not actually possilbe (and they know this).
Ahh.. please reference this. Bait and Switch is type of false advertising. It has nothing to do with post sales results. It has to do with offering something (falsely) in the hopes of getting the customer, then revealing that what was promised is not available... but that something different is.
The classic bait and switch is to offer a free/cheap item for sale. When the customer comes to buy it, they find that the store does not have that item... but that they can buy something similar for more.
Bait and switch is NOT traditionally about terms of service. It would be much harder to show that... as the only advertisment of such terms are very clearly in thier favor. (i.e. the terms say that they can change at will). False advertising requires that something not be disclosed. (i.e. it isnt fraud to say that they are going to change the terms of service at will)
Well, I do not believe it is a bait and switch. However, if you think this is an unlawful bait and switch and you fail to report it to the appropriate authorities, wouldn't that be conspiracy after the fact type of crime that you would be engaging in?It would only be conspiricy if I profitted from it ( I have no vested interest). I have publiclaly proclaimed the issue at the source (the ad is running on this site). That is enough to demonstrate my goodwill on the matter.
Note: Technically it would be impossible (without documents that show intent to defraud) to prove that this was unlawful. I would have to show intent, and with the information availble on the secondary and terciary pages, this would be basically impossible.
I don't believe it has anything to do with profit. Conspiracy after the fact is a crime of knowing about a crime and not reporting it if my understanding is correct.
I don't believe it has anything to do with profit. Conspiracy after the fact is a crime of knowing about a crime and not reporting it if my understanding is correct.
You can only conspire if you:
A. Try to conceal the fact that a crime was planned/committed
B. Were involved in some manner.
You cant conspire by publically declaring that there is a problem.
Well when you get on the website you can read about the benefits you get when you pre-order. You shoud not be able to pre-order just to enter beta ealier and cancel just like that. The benefits are really meant for people that really knows that they want to play the game when it is released.
You must be able to cancel a pre-order but seriously i think you will have to pay th administrations costs.
I dont understand why they didnt do the same thing like in europe where you can buy a pre-order package for like €2,99 ( you get beta key , dvd and the founders benefits). If you want to continue playing after release you just buy retail.
Promotional Discounts and Returns: Should you return an order that was placed using a promotional code, discount or offer, you will not be refunded for the amount of the code, discount or offer, as these discounts were deducted from the original purchase amount.
So there for the promotional discount of zero dollars off of your product to pre order the game and get the open beta CD key can not be refunded. So if you return your order you can't get the zero dollars back that you had to put down to pre order due to the promotion. No where in there does it say that you can not return the product or cancel your order because you used the promotional CD key.
When you purchase the product you are paying for the RETAIL key not the open beta key.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
lol
Here you go:
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=161108
Lotro you can play now and for free, happy?
The only person that needs work on reading is you. So... you have a key and you can't play now. It seems like you are whining because you want to play now but you can't. Poor little kid.
Let me make this very clear to you so you can understand.
When you click on that small flashing advertisement you claim as "false advertisement," it leads you to a screen where it clearly states that you can join the world tour starting on April 6th for a free preview of this game. Now the initial ad that you are whining about may have said "Play Free Now." But any reasonable consumer would click on that link to find out what he/she needs to do to play free now correct? So he/she clicks on that link and it clearly says you can preview the game for free by joining the world tour, which is clearly stated that it starts on April 6. Nowhere in that second page does it say that you have to pay now to play. It gives you a separate button to click if you want to pre order. Only when you click there, it tells you that you can actually start on March 30 with a founders key.
This is not bait and switch. Accurate information have been given on the page where it gives the actual detail of this event.
As for your argument on fraud and theft....
Please read carefully the return policies stated on all the different merchants that are accepting pre-orders for this game. You can return and get your refund if you return the actual shipped items within 30 days in its original condition, without damage, missing parts or the item being opened. If you cancel your pre order before the actual retail box ships, then you can get your refund. This is according to the merchant that is selling this game. They are telling you that you can return the game, which also equals to cancelling your pre order. Now tell me where in this scenario does that equal to fraud and theft?
Please note that Turbine did not even have to make this offer. Lot of games only take pre orders, and the only benefit the buyer receives is the first priority in receiving the game before people who did not make the pre order. That's where that $10 comes in. You are paying for the guaranteed priviledge to receive your retail box on the first day it becomes available. The $10 is NOT for access to the beta. No companies charge their customers to beta test their products during the beta stages. Access to the beta is only an added bonus that did not even have to be offered.
So to make this very clear to you again....
The only real product that Turbine is selling is the $49.99 actual retail box version of this game. The beta CD and the beta key are not the products on sale. They are only an add-on bonus for people who make the pre-orders. As long as you do not open and use the actual retail box, you can return the game. The monthly subscription starts after the official retail version launches on April 24. Without opening the retail box, you can't play anyway.
So if you make the pre order and then you decide that the game is not for you, then you CAN cancel your pre order before the retail box ships or if you received it and have not opened the box yet. And you ARE entitled to your money back. Hence, you CAN play for free, and there is NO theft or fraud here.
Now does this make any sense to you? I tried very hard to explain this to you, and if you STILL are going to make your baseless accusations of theft, fraud, and false advertising, then you REALLY DO need help or you REALLY ARE indeed a troll that desperately are begging for more attention.
As for your final paragraph on your post...
No, I can care less if you replied or not. In fact, I would rather have you NOT reply and make yourself look like a fool each and everytime you post something like this. I would rather have this thread die or be locked.
Before asking me these questions, genuinely ask yourself who is the real annoying troll on this forum. Then look at yourself very carefully in the mirror.
I am glad that you have taken the time to (independantly) veryify the situation. What you have described is called bait and switch. This is also the title of this thread, and the premise on which I posted.Your description of them running an ad which makes claims for a service, and then when you attempt to obtain said service, only to find out that they do not offer it, but will sell you something else in its place. Well, that is exactly what I have been saying. It is so good to see that you support my complaint.
As for those that plan on using a pre-order key, and then returning/refusing the preorder, you have been kind enough to point out that the vendors selling this service, are not actually those that make this service. This means that that the EULA is what is being violated, exactly as I stated it would be. This means that those doing this are stealing, and that those doing this with the intention of stealing are acting in a fraudulent manner.
You have gone on to clearly state that acess to the beta is only available (at this time) via purchase and that they are not actually giving acess for free... but are instead increasing the value of your purchase by including additional play time. If they were actually giving acess for free, then they could not require a purchase.
I would like to thank you for taking the time to show support for my posting. I know you are aware that I am monitoring this post, and am taking the time to respond. Your encouragement on this matter has only strenthened my resolve to participate.
Odd, I'm playing it now (alt tab ftw)..... i didn't realize that i was teleported through time. If you bothered to read the link i gave you, yesterday at 7pm they even had an event going on, so, yes you can play now for free. What starts on the 13th is open beta in EU, much like what is going on now in the US. But like i said, if you absolutely positively want to "play free now" you can.
Odd, I'm playing it now (alt tab ftw)..... i didn't realize that i was teleported through time. If you bothered to read the link i gave you, yesterday at 7pm they even had an event going on, so, yes you can play now for free. What starts on the 13th is open beta in EU, much like what is going on now in the US. But like i said, if you absolutely positively want to "play free now" you can.
Well, here is what it states:
"With just a short while to go now until the game begins on April 13th there's never been a better time to sample the delights of Middle-earth before the full game launches."
I have a US Beta Key, but can not play until the 6th (the start of the US Open Beta).
I am NOT sure about how it works for the UK. I will look into it. I appreciate the offer.
However, even if it is valid (checking now), I still have a valid complaint about the US advertising.
Odd, I'm playing it now (alt tab ftw)..... i didn't realize that i was teleported through time. If you bothered to read the link i gave you, yesterday at 7pm they even had an event going on, so, yes you can play now for free. What starts on the 13th is open beta in EU, much like what is going on now in the US. But like i said, if you absolutely positively want to "play free now" you can.
Well, here is what it states:
"With just a short while to go now until the game begins on April 13th there's never been a better time to sample the delights of Middle-earth before the full game launches."
I have a US Beta Key, but can not play until the 6th (the start of the US Open Beta).
I am NOT sure about how it works for the UK. I will look into it. I appreciate the offer.
However, even if it is valid (checking now), I still have a valid complaint about the US advertising.
Aye , just thought i would help you scratch your itch. After the stress test i became hooked, a couple days later CVG was giving out 10k beta keys so i've been playing there, I now have to decide weather or not to play US (where i am) or EU version where i now have an absolutely great guild. since they lifted the only play in certain regions ban i have to choose.The amount of time they have dedicated to splitting hairs is probably the saddest thing I have seen in quite some time.
I the O.P. isn't a victim of OCD, or a card-carrying schitzoid there is really no excuse for this type of behavior.
Perhaps a warm glass of "get over it and get on with your life" is in order??
We shall not cease from exploration and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started... and know the place for the first time.
-T.S. Eliot
I may have spent an hour or so on this thread over the past two days. However, I feel that it is important to trust the game developer/distributer as they have the ability (and right) to make changes to the game.
I also have a sense of civic duty, and community. If I see someone taking advantage of the community, I speak out. That is just how I was raised (to look out for others). Not everyone has those values.
Thank you for your consideration. I may try the European version. I dont have a problem with how Codemaster has handled this.
Looks like they changed the ads now.
Yes they have. I am officially done complaining about this. I would like to thank those that have helped with this effort.
This thread is now dead.
I'm perfectly content to wait until April 6th and I didn't even notice the "play now" part on the website.
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.