Thank you moderators for taking the incentive to silence the kinds of OP and others that might find any silly and pointless reasons to complain and whine. Sometimes it is better to feed the troll to make them happy, so that it will voluntarily leave. As for the OP, I hope you don't start anything like this again in another forum. But I won't be surprised if you do. But please do everyone a favor and don't play this game. Simpy pathetic.
Thank you moderators for taking the incentive to silence these the kinds of posters (by providing tangible proof that they were wrong), that would encourage fraud and theft. Yes, they would never be held accountable for their actions, but it is good to see that you would not encourage this type of activities. Sometimes it is better to silence the trolls, rather then let them infect others.
As for this poster. I hope you have learned your lesson. However, I would be surprised if you did. Please do everyone a favor, and be happy with your low morals (and live with the fact that not everyone is like you.)
I agree with you, Superman, and I want to thank you for pursuing this.
The people who market computer games are a sleazy crowd, and they are running amok. They stoop to the most dishonest, underhanded strategies they can think of, and most of the sheep don't seem to care, as long as the games keep on comin'.
Instead of worrying about violence in video games, Congress should be passing laws to protect consumers from shady marketing tactics such as misleading advertising and stealth marketing.
Thank you moderators for taking the incentive to silence these the kinds of posters (by providing tangible proof that they were wrong), that would encourage fraud and theft. Yes, they would never be held accountable for their actions, but it is good to see that you would not encourage this type of activities. Sometimes it is better to silence the trolls, rather then let them infect others. As for this poster. I hope you have learned your lesson. However, I would be surprised if you did. Please do everyone a favor, and be happy with your low morals (and live with the fact that not everyone is like you.) Simply pathetic.
There is NO tangible proof whatsoever that I am wrong and you are right. But since you simply won't give this a rest, I will just pretend and play your game. After all, that's what you want isn't it? I won you lost... hahahaha I beat you blah blah... yeah you had your fun. You also made a big fool out of yourself, and I am not the only one thinking this way.
And what action to be accountable for? You did not even buy anything. You spent no money. How is that bait and switch? I throughly explained to you in great detail, and you STILL fail to understand. And then you have the nerve to call me and everyone else who disagreed with you, trolls. Like I said, look at yourself very well in the mirror and see who the real troll is.
I have no lesson to learn. YOU have some major issues. You need to resolve them. You can hide behind your computer monitor all day, cry and whine like what you did, and get some satfisfaction out of some tiny little wording on a small flashing advertisement which wasn't even an issue to begin with. If your real life was so rough that you had to resort to forum trolling to gain some satisfaction of winning something, then I pity you.
Downright attacking people with low morals with arguments that absolutely do not make any sense whatsoever is what is simply downright pathetic. I hope you don't do this in your real life, because there will be grave consequences if you do.
Now I hope YOU learned your lesson. Having said that, please don't play this game.
I think its a pretty good deal. Pre-order the game, get into beta 1 week before everyone else to help stress test the servers. Gives me a chance to take a peek at the game. With the pre-order, you can also just cancel the order before it ships mid April. I used Amazon.com, so this will not be an issue. After playing however, I have absolutely no intention of cancelling. I am enjoying this game waaaay too much.
To the OP, seeing how you feel so passionately about this issue ... I can only say to invest in a game that you think would be worth your time and money. And in a company that you believe to be ethical. I personally don't see a bait and switch or bad ethical practices with what you presented - in fact I see quite the opposite. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
"I also have a sense of civic duty, and community. If I see someone taking advantage of the community, I speak out. That is just how I was raised (to look out for others). Not everyone has those values.""
I have to say, I have never laughed harder or longer at any other troll than I did when I read this.
Thank you moderators for taking the incentive to silence these the kinds of posters (by providing tangible proof that they were wrong), that would encourage fraud and theft. Yes, they would never be held accountable for their actions, but it is good to see that you would not encourage this type of activities. Sometimes it is better to silence the trolls, rather then let them infect others. As for this poster. I hope you have learned your lesson. However, I would be surprised if you did. Please do everyone a favor, and be happy with your low morals (and live with the fact that not everyone is like you.) Simply pathetic.
There is NO tangible proof whatsoever that I am wrong and you are right. But since you simply won't give this a rest, I will just pretend and play your game. After all, that's what you want isn't it? I won you lost... hahahaha I beat you blah blah... yeah you had your fun. You also made a big fool out of yourself, and I am not the only one thinking this way.
And what action to be accountable for? You did not even buy anything. You spent no money. How is that bait and switch? I throughly explained to you in great detail, and you STILL fail to understand. And then you have the nerve to call me and everyone else who disagreed with you, trolls. Like I said, look at yourself very well in the mirror and see who the real troll is.
I have no lesson to learn. YOU have some major issues. You need to resolve them. You can hide behind your computer monitor all day, cry and whine like what you did, and get some satfisfaction out of some tiny little wording on a small flashing advertisement which wasn't even an issue to begin with. If your real life was so rough that you had to resort to forum trolling to gain some satisfaction of winning something, then I pity you.
Downright attacking people with low morals with arguments that absolutely do not make any sense whatsoever is what is simply downright pathetic. I hope you don't do this in your real life, because there will be grave consequences if you do.
Now I hope YOU learned your lesson. Having said that, please don't play this game.
The advertisements were changed, because there was a problem. Not because there was no problem. Simply put... they found merit in my aurguments, and took action to correct the problem. Some of us deal with the facts. I guess you are not one of them. As for your actions... well not everyone can have class (or even fake it).
I hope you have learned your lesson, dont discuss things you dont understand... and feel free to play a troll, it suits you.
Originally posted by Hero5937GX
wow i thought vg forum was filled with hatred... look at this little kid spewing up some negative garbage. superman... you really are pathetic. why don't you talk about something more constructive or positive instead? vg forum was so bad enough with all the negativity as is, so i come to this forum and the first thing i see is this nonsense. man people have been telling you over and over that you are wrong. it's like talking to a wall or something. you know why they changed the ad? so you will stfu. that doesn't mean you won anything. judging from your posts, here you are going yeah i won everyone else is wrong i am right.... think again. they just want you to stfu. since they fixed it, now stfu plz. oh yeah i know u r gonna post some stupid ass half brain dead nonsense reply. i hope you do because more you post, more proof that you really are a stupid idiot.
People have been telling me over and over that it is ok to participate in fraud, and theft. I am sorry, but I choose not to do that. As for my complaint.. it has been resovlved... because they agreed that there might be a problem. If you dont like that.. complain to them.
Originally posted by Greslore
I think its a pretty good deal. Pre-order the game, get into beta 1 week before everyone else to help stress test the servers. Gives me a chance to take a peek at the game. With the pre-order, you can also just cancel the order before it ships mid April. I used Amazon.com, so this will not be an issue. After playing however, I have absolutely no intention of cancelling. I am enjoying this game waaaay too much. To the OP, seeing how you feel so passionately about this issue ... I can only say to invest in a game that you think would be worth your time and money. And in a company that you believe to be ethical. I personally don't see a bait and switch or bad ethical practices with what you presented - in fact I see quite the opposite. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
The problem has been resolved. The looked at the aurguments, and decided that there might be merit. They changed the ads. This shows that they reacted when they were made aware of the problem. I cant say whether the issue was a mistake or intentional. However I can say that when made aware of it, they did the ethical thing (and changed the ads).
The only people being emotional and childish here are the fans defending the ad.
Superman never criticized the game itself, and his arguments were quite logical. The people attacking him, however, were vicious and stubborn, even though the changed ad pretty much proves him right. If this is what the community of LoTRO is going to be like, I'm losing interest by the second.
Is it possible that LoTRO fanbois are even worse than Vanguard fanbois? Has no one learned that there is no game company in the world that deserves this kind of blind, rabid loyalty?
I just joined this website and this was the first thread I saw.
And I feel it is my civic duty to let the public be aware of people who accuse other people who disagree with him with fraud, theft, and low morals. Therefore, I am reporting this user to the moderators.
The only people being emotional and childish here are the fans defending the ad. Superman never criticized the game itself, and his arguments were quite logical. The people attacking him, however, were vicious and stubborn, even though the changed ad pretty much proves him right. If this is what the community of LoTRO is going to be like, I'm losing interest by the second. Is it possible that LoTRO fanbois are even worse than Vanguard fanbois? Has no one learned that there is no game company in the world that deserves this kind of blind, rabid loyalty?
I think the problem most people had with him is that (assuming he wasn't just a troll looking for attention, which is my opinion) he was making a very large mountain out of a very tiny molehill. He *may* have been technically correct, but for crying out loud it's not like people were getting scammed left and right ...
Now If he (and others who defended him, as few as there were) would put that kind of effort and passion into REAL problems out there in society, like people who make right turns at red lights without coming to a full stop (or at least slow down first), or people who pass on the right using EXIT ONLY lanes. Stuff like that.
The only people being emotional and childish here are the fans defending the ad. Superman never criticized the game itself, and his arguments were quite logical. The people attacking him, however, were vicious and stubborn, even though the changed ad pretty much proves him right. If this is what the community of LoTRO is going to be like, I'm losing interest by the second. Is it possible that LoTRO fanbois are even worse than Vanguard fanbois? Has no one learned that there is no game company in the world that deserves this kind of blind, rabid loyalty?
I think the problem most people had with him is that (assuming he wasn't just a troll looking for attention, which is my opinion) he was making a very large mountain out of a very tiny molehill. He *may* have been technically correct, but for crying out loud it's not like people were getting scammed left and right ...
Now If he (and others who defended him, as few as there were) would put that kind of effort and passion into REAL problems out there in society, like people who make right turns at red lights without coming to a full stop (or at least slow down first), or people who pass on the right using EXIT ONLY lanes. Stuff like that.
Still dragging this thread out... (sigh)
The problem was solved.... but apparently not to your liking. It is your right to drag this on forever, and to make this into something much bigger than it was... however, I would hope that you will at least let it go on the 6th. If not, well, good luck with trying to change history.
This is really how simple it is. If you want to play open beta right now pre-order and get a pre-order key. If you don't want to pre-order then get an open beta key and wait until April 6 like everyone else. You aren't paying for anything to play beta either way. Pre-ordering is just putting down a deposit on a retail copy. It is not a charge to play open beta. There is no bait and switch as you aren't being charged anything until April 24 when you order arrives at a store or ships from an online retailer. If you ordered online you'll be charged full price at that time. If you ordered from a retail store you'll be charged the retail price minus your deposit. How difficult is that to understand?
Seems to me the your (OP) biggest problem is that you don't want to pre-order but you don't want to wait until April 6 to play. It's one or the other and no amount of screaming 'bait and switch' is going to change that. Sounds like you just want everything your way, when you want it and you don't want to wait. Sorry it doesn't work that way. Either pre-order or stand in line and wait with the rest of us.
This is really how simple it is. If you want to play open beta right now pre-order and get a pre-order key. If you don't want to pre-order then get an open beta key and wait until April 6 like everyone else. You aren't paying for anything to play beta either way. Pre-ordering is just putting down a deposit on a retail copy. It is not a charge to play open beta. There is no bait and switch as you aren't being charged anything until April 24 when you order arrives at a store or ships from an online retailer. If you ordered online you'll be charged full price at that time. If you ordered from a retail store you'll be charged the retail price minus your deposit. How difficult is that to understand? Seems to me the your (OP) biggest problem is that you don't want to pre-order but you don't want to wait until April 6 to play. It's one or the other and no amount of screaming 'bait and switch' is going to change that. Sounds like you just want everything your way, when you want it and you don't want to wait. Sorry it doesn't work that way. Either pre-order or stand in line and wait with the rest of us.
Well, you seem poorly informed... but this thread is pretty long, so I am assuming you didnt read all of it (no big deal).
The problem is not when people can play, or if you have to pay for it. The problem is that they advertised one thing, knowing that they were not going to provide it. They were made aware of the problem, and chose to change the ads, so that this would not be a problem.
I am already playing the game (without a pre-order). So your statements have proven to be incorrect. If you had followed the thread, you would have seen this... but I understand... and no hard feelings.
P.S. I got everything my way... because they agreed with me. That is how simple it is.
Now If he (and others who defended him, as few as there were) would put that kind of effort and passion into REAL problems out there in society, like people who make right turns at red lights without coming to a full stop (or at least slow down first), or people who pass on the right using EXIT ONLY lanes. Stuff like that.
LOL - It does make one wonder.. doesnt it? It's interesting to see what issues one thinks important, and what issues seem trivial.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
This thread is as valid as any other, and LotR fans need not defend the add as Superman0x did not once bereate the game or it's developers. He made concise points which were logical and correct in every way. I find it sad that the fans had to attack him in the way they did, and quite sorry for the people who tried to participate in a verbal assault on him. Sorry, because he is smarter than each and every one of his detractors.
And as for this thread deterring people from playing LotRO, that is simply not true, at least for anyone intelligent who reads things and makes objective decisions. This thread has made me decide to pre-order the game by merit of some of the screenshots that were posted in the thread. The graphics are insane!
Also, they changed the adds. Superman0X was right. I know it hurts but perhaps you will be able to go on with your lives.
It is free to play now during the open beta. Come release it will cost a monthly fee. Their terms are completely correct on all counts. Now if you see putting the money to buy a game as a cost, then I can't really relate due to the fact, that I don't really see that as paying for the game itself anymore (Due to that re-accuring bill on my credit card, now thats the payment for the game heh).
In reality nothing is free though. The time you are downloading it you are using electricity which costs money. If your computer was off and cable/dsl was not on it would cost even less money on your electric bill? I understand where your coming from, but it is really kind of silly for a marketing campaign for a great game.
This is no bait and switch. Go to any online game store and pre-order the game....it costs you nothing. You will recieve an open beta / founder's key in your email. You activate that key on Turbine's site and bang you are in the game for FREEE! If you do not like the game, just cancel your pre-order before it ships. This I am sure of.
I am not totally sure on this one but I believe even if you pre-order from a local EBGames store where you pay them $10, you can still cancel your pre-order and get your money back I believe.
You really should get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
-Ex
Please go here. Hit refresh a few times, until you see the advertisment for LOTR. The text reads "Play Free Now". Follow the link to the LOTR site. This will give you the details... and they are NOT "Free" and "Now". They are "Free" OR "Now", you have to choose.
If you are going to comment on something, please take the time to look at it. If you are uncertain of what was said, just ask. You should really get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
P.S. Participating in fraud, because you feel it is justified is just as bad as false (fraudulent) advertising.
Maybe MMORPG.com took it down? The one I saw had "Play Now!" and then faded to another screen with "Join the Free World Tour of Middle-Earth" after it faded back in, not "Play Free Now!" as you indicated, though this thread was a day or so old.
But then, at the same time there was the "A Tale Of Pirates" advertisement with the "most anticipated game of 2007" tagline, so I definately raise an eyebrow when I read them anyway.
EDIT: Nevermind I see that they had changed the advertisements...good thing last thing we need in this world is more false advertising.
To the tool that said pre-ordering to get into the beta, and then cancelling your pre-order if you don't like the game would break Turbine's EULA for LOTRO....this is a response from a Turbine support person themselves to a question that I submitted to them:
Re: Question about canceling Pre-Order....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNihilo
I would appreciate it if someone from Turbine could answer this question for me. I have placed my pre-order and I have received my key. I have the client installed and I can get into the Open Beta now (March 30th).
Question: If I play in the open beta before April 24th, and decide to cancel my pre-order for whatever reason (i.e. I don't like the game, etc.), would I be violating any EULA?
Thanks for your time and consideration!
-Ex
Not with us, no!
-Meghan
Meghan "Patience" Rodberg
Online Community Manager
The Lord of the Rings Online
"Settle down, Beavis."
I'm sure this same tool will claim that I just made this whole Q&A thing up, to which I say register to their forums and send a PM to "Patience" (Meghan) yourself.
To the tool that said pre-ordering to get into the beta, and then cancelling your pre-order if you don't like the game would break Turbine's EULA for LOTRO....this is a response from a Turbine support person themselves to a question that I submitted to them:
Re: Question about canceling Pre-Order....
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExNihilo I would appreciate it if someone from Turbine could answer this question for me. I have placed my pre-order and I have received my key. I have the client installed and I can get into the Open Beta now (March 30th).
Question: If I play in the open beta before April 24th, and decide to cancel my pre-order for whatever reason (i.e. I don't like the game, etc.), would I be violating any EULA?
Thanks for your time and consideration!
-Ex
Not with us, no!
-Meghan Meghan "Patience" Rodberg
Online Community Manager
The Lord of the Rings Online
"Settle down, Beavis."
I'm sure this same tool will claim that I just made this whole Q&A thing up, to which I say register to their forums and send a PM to "Patience" (Meghan) yourself.
-Ex __________________
Meghan "Patience" Rodberg
Online Community Manager
The Lord of the Rings Online
"Settle down, Beavis."
Change the date to April 6th, and try again.
P.S. I was registered on thier forums before I even started this thread. If you are going to troll, at least TRY to get your facts straight. Your blatant disregard for the obvios just makes you look bad (but I guess as a troll, you dont care).
P.P.S. I hope you will let this thread die by the start of the OB. It would be a shame to drag this on, when it has been clearly resolved.
Read it again. I clearly covered it in my PM to the Turbine support person. I stated that I pre-ordered, and that I could play (get into the game on Mar 30), and asked if I cancelled my pre-order ANY TIME BEFORE APRIL 24th if it would break EULA. And they said NO.
You are the troll, I went straight to the source and got an official answer to your clearly uninformed position and you still deny it. I did my homework, now go ask them yourself. If you don't you are the troll and fool.
You are wrong, I got the proof and now all you prove is that you are too pigheaded to admit it.
Didn't they change the ad in question already? Stop attacking each other and let's just play the game.
Regardless of who is wrong, all we should care about is rather or not the game is worth the investment of time and money. You can't try to change another's point of view, especially in the forums. Just let it go and play!
To the OP:
I think a lot of companies in their marketing do some things that aren't completely ethical or make 100% sense. One thing that annoys me are those radio commercials where they tell you that you can get this great deal, and then it is followed by someone speaking something in the line of jibberish in a bulletspeed sppech that you cannot understand. Or how about those fineprints eh? But in this case, I think this website put the ad a week too early by mistake of some sort. As far as breaking the EULA, as long as you pre-ordered which enabled you to play from March 30 and then you decide to cancel, since Turbine says it is ok to do so, there shouldn't be a problem I don't think. For folks that cannot play until April 6.. those folks did not pre order, so they made no purchase or commitment... therefore it is a non issue for them. But yeah some of the marketing tactics can be... questionable...
Stop trying to defend your egos and let's talk about the game now. TRUCE!
This thread is as valid as any other, and LotR fans need not defend the add as Superman0x did not once bereate the game or it's developers. He made concise points which were logical and correct in every way. I find it sad that the fans had to attack him in the way they did, and quite sorry for the people who tried to participate in a verbal assault on him. Sorry, because he is smarter than each and every one of his detractors. And as for this thread deterring people from playing LotRO, that is simply not true, at least for anyone intelligent who reads things and makes objective decisions. This thread has made me decide to pre-order the game by merit of some of the screenshots that were posted in the thread. The graphics are insane! Also, they changed the adds. Superman0X was right. I know it hurts but perhaps you will be able to go on with your lives.
I too am grateful for the free advertising that bumping this thread enables. It also showcases how great a company Turbine is by responding to even the mildest of issues.
But changing the add doesn't necessarily mean he was right. What was straightforward and plain to most of us was obviously confusing to the OP (his pseudo-intellectual language notwithstanding). Turbine saw this as an opportunity to clarify their great offer regarding LOTRO so that more people could fully understand it. I applaud them for it.
I want to keep bumping this thread until more people see how fantastic Turbine is.
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
I was bored on a Friday afternoon at work and actually found reading this entire thread more entertaining than doing my job (uh-oh, I think I defrauded my company ). Anyway, having invested this much time I just had to post.
First off, LoTR is awesome. I've played a lot of MMORPGs and so far this game is on track to be one of the great ones. They drew inspiration from all of the other successful games and have created a game that seems to hit just the right formula (my opinion).
Secondly, I suppose it never occurred to the OP that the wording on the "Play Free Now!"" graphic was not intended to mislead potential subscribers but was just an error. Maybe they originally planned to open the World Tour for everyone at the same time but then decided to allow pre-orders (potential founders) in a week early and didn't bother to create a new version of the ad graphic. The graphic was clearly wrong but the OP's assertion that it was "Bait and Switch" is unfounded based on the facts in evidence. Bait and Switch would require that they intentionally misled people and I didn't see anyone post anything supporting that claim.
Thirdly, the OP's thread title of "Bait and Switch" is irresponsible and potentially illegal. He basically claimed that Turbine had committed a crime but he clearly doesn't have the evidence to back it up. Accusing someone of a crime without proper evidence is at least unethical and could even be slander.
This thread is as valid as any other, and LotR fans need not defend the add as Superman0x did not once bereate the game or it's developers. He made concise points which were logical and correct in every way. I find it sad that the fans had to attack him in the way they did, and quite sorry for the people who tried to participate in a verbal assault on him. Sorry, because he is smarter than each and every one of his detractors. And as for this thread deterring people from playing LotRO, that is simply not true, at least for anyone intelligent who reads things and makes objective decisions. This thread has made me decide to pre-order the game by merit of some of the screenshots that were posted in the thread. The graphics are insane! Also, they changed the adds. Superman0X was right. I know it hurts but perhaps you will be able to go on with your lives.
I too am grateful for the free advertising that bumping this thread enables. It also showcases how great a company Turbine is by responding to even the mildest of issues.
But changing the add doesn't necessarily mean he was right. What was straightforward and plain to most of us was obviously confusing to the OP (his pseudo-intellectual language notwithstanding). Turbine saw this as an opportunity to clarify their great offer regarding LOTRO so that more people could fully understand it. I applaud them for it.
I want to keep bumping this thread until more people see how fantastic Turbine is.
To give credit where it (appears to be) is due, Midway responded to this... Not Turbine. Midway is the distributor, and is in charge of publishing... and the timing of the ad being changed corresponds with correspondance that I had with them...
However, Turbine has done a great job on the game. I am quite impressed with many of the details of the game. It may not be revolutionary... but they did take the time to learn from the mistakes of other games... and in such it is evolutionary.
Originally posted by JohnnyRico
I was bored on a Friday afternoon at work and actually found reading this entire thread more entertaining than doing my job (uh-oh, I think I defrauded my company ). Anyway, having invested this much time I just had to post. First off, LoTR is awesome. I've played a lot of MMORPGs and so far this game is on track to be one of the great ones. They drew inspiration from all of the other successful games and have created a game that seems to hit just the right formula (my opinion). Secondly, I suppose it never occurred to the OP that the wording on the "Play Free Now!"" graphic was not intended to mislead potential subscribers but was just an error. Maybe they originally planned to open the World Tour for everyone at the same time but then decided to allow pre-orders (potential founders) in a week early and didn't bother to create a new version of the ad graphic. The graphic was clearly wrong but the OP's assertion that it was "Bait and Switch" is unfounded based on the facts in evidence. Bait and Switch would require that they intentionally misled people and I didn't see anyone post anything supporting that claim. Thirdly, the OP's thread title of "Bait and Switch" is irresponsible and potentially illegal. He basically claimed that Turbine had committed a crime but he clearly doesn't have the evidence to back it up. Accusing someone of a crime without proper evidence is at least unethical and could even be slander. Anyway, thanks for a fun read. Just my 2 cents.
The difference between Fraud and a mistake is intent. They (MMORPG.Com/Turbine/Midway) have been free to respond here the whole time. I have stated (since the ad was changed) that I no longer consider it an issue. They responded to a request to change the ad. If they had intended to be fraudulent, they (most likely) would not have. However, they agreed that the ad could be interpreted as providing a false promise (i.e. bait and switch) and so changed it to avoid the problem. Good enough for me.
Comments
Thank you moderators for taking the incentive to silence these the kinds of posters (by providing tangible proof that they were wrong), that would encourage fraud and theft. Yes, they would never be held accountable for their actions, but it is good to see that you would not encourage this type of activities. Sometimes it is better to silence the trolls, rather then let them infect others.
As for this poster. I hope you have learned your lesson. However, I would be surprised if you did. Please do everyone a favor, and be happy with your low morals (and live with the fact that not everyone is like you.)
Simply pathetic.
I agree with you, Superman, and I want to thank you for pursuing this.
The people who market computer games are a sleazy crowd, and they are running amok. They stoop to the most dishonest, underhanded strategies they can think of, and most of the sheep don't seem to care, as long as the games keep on comin'.
Instead of worrying about violence in video games, Congress should be passing laws to protect consumers from shady marketing tactics such as misleading advertising and stealth marketing.
There is NO tangible proof whatsoever that I am wrong and you are right. But since you simply won't give this a rest, I will just pretend and play your game. After all, that's what you want isn't it? I won you lost... hahahaha I beat you blah blah... yeah you had your fun. You also made a big fool out of yourself, and I am not the only one thinking this way.
And what action to be accountable for? You did not even buy anything. You spent no money. How is that bait and switch? I throughly explained to you in great detail, and you STILL fail to understand. And then you have the nerve to call me and everyone else who disagreed with you, trolls. Like I said, look at yourself very well in the mirror and see who the real troll is.
I have no lesson to learn. YOU have some major issues. You need to resolve them. You can hide behind your computer monitor all day, cry and whine like what you did, and get some satfisfaction out of some tiny little wording on a small flashing advertisement which wasn't even an issue to begin with. If your real life was so rough that you had to resort to forum trolling to gain some satisfaction of winning something, then I pity you.
Downright attacking people with low morals with arguments that absolutely do not make any sense whatsoever is what is simply downright pathetic. I hope you don't do this in your real life, because there will be grave consequences if you do.
Now I hope YOU learned your lesson. Having said that, please don't play this game.
I think its a pretty good deal. Pre-order the game, get into beta 1 week before everyone else to help stress test the servers. Gives me a chance to take a peek at the game. With the pre-order, you can also just cancel the order before it ships mid April. I used Amazon.com, so this will not be an issue. After playing however, I have absolutely no intention of cancelling. I am enjoying this game waaaay too much.
To the OP, seeing how you feel so passionately about this issue
... I can only say to invest in a game that you think would be worth your time and money. And in a company that you believe to be ethical. I personally don't see a bait and switch or bad ethical practices with what you presented - in fact I see quite the opposite. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
"I also have a sense of civic duty, and community. If I see someone taking advantage of the community, I speak out. That is just how I was raised (to look out for others). Not everyone has those values.""
I have to say, I have never laughed harder or longer at any other troll than I did when I read this.
Well done, and thanks for the belly laugh.
There is NO tangible proof whatsoever that I am wrong and you are right. But since you simply won't give this a rest, I will just pretend and play your game. After all, that's what you want isn't it? I won you lost... hahahaha I beat you blah blah... yeah you had your fun. You also made a big fool out of yourself, and I am not the only one thinking this way.
And what action to be accountable for? You did not even buy anything. You spent no money. How is that bait and switch? I throughly explained to you in great detail, and you STILL fail to understand. And then you have the nerve to call me and everyone else who disagreed with you, trolls. Like I said, look at yourself very well in the mirror and see who the real troll is.
I have no lesson to learn. YOU have some major issues. You need to resolve them. You can hide behind your computer monitor all day, cry and whine like what you did, and get some satfisfaction out of some tiny little wording on a small flashing advertisement which wasn't even an issue to begin with. If your real life was so rough that you had to resort to forum trolling to gain some satisfaction of winning something, then I pity you.
Downright attacking people with low morals with arguments that absolutely do not make any sense whatsoever is what is simply downright pathetic. I hope you don't do this in your real life, because there will be grave consequences if you do.
Now I hope YOU learned your lesson. Having said that, please don't play this game.
The advertisements were changed, because there was a problem. Not because there was no problem. Simply put... they found merit in my aurguments, and took action to correct the problem. Some of us deal with the facts. I guess you are not one of them. As for your actions... well not everyone can have class (or even fake it).
I hope you have learned your lesson, dont discuss things you dont understand... and feel free to play a troll, it suits you.
People have been telling me over and over that it is ok to participate in fraud, and theft. I am sorry, but I choose not to do that. As for my complaint.. it has been resovlved... because they agreed that there might be a problem. If you dont like that.. complain to them.
The problem has been resolved. The looked at the aurguments, and decided that there might be merit. They changed the ads. This shows that they reacted when they were made aware of the problem. I cant say whether the issue was a mistake or intentional. However I can say that when made aware of it, they did the ethical thing (and changed the ads).
The only people being emotional and childish here are the fans defending the ad.
Superman never criticized the game itself, and his arguments were quite logical. The people attacking him, however, were vicious and stubborn, even though the changed ad pretty much proves him right. If this is what the community of LoTRO is going to be like, I'm losing interest by the second.
Is it possible that LoTRO fanbois are even worse than Vanguard fanbois? Has no one learned that there is no game company in the world that deserves this kind of blind, rabid loyalty?
"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a robot foot stomping on a human face -- forever."
Hi.
I just joined this website and this was the first thread I saw.
And I feel it is my civic duty to let the public be aware of people who accuse other people who disagree with him with fraud, theft, and low morals. Therefore, I am reporting this user to the moderators.
Thank you very much.
don't mind me, go on, continue
Now If he (and others who defended him, as few as there were) would put that kind of effort and passion into REAL problems out there in society, like people who make right turns at red lights without coming to a full stop (or at least slow down first), or people who pass on the right using EXIT ONLY lanes. Stuff like that.
Now If he (and others who defended him, as few as there were) would put that kind of effort and passion into REAL problems out there in society, like people who make right turns at red lights without coming to a full stop (or at least slow down first), or people who pass on the right using EXIT ONLY lanes. Stuff like that.
Still dragging this thread out... (sigh)
The problem was solved.... but apparently not to your liking. It is your right to drag this on forever, and to make this into something much bigger than it was... however, I would hope that you will at least let it go on the 6th. If not, well, good luck with trying to change history.
This is really how simple it is. If you want to play open beta right now pre-order and get a pre-order key. If you don't want to pre-order then get an open beta key and wait until April 6 like everyone else. You aren't paying for anything to play beta either way. Pre-ordering is just putting down a deposit on a retail copy. It is not a charge to play open beta. There is no bait and switch as you aren't being charged anything until April 24 when you order arrives at a store or ships from an online retailer. If you ordered online you'll be charged full price at that time. If you ordered from a retail store you'll be charged the retail price minus your deposit. How difficult is that to understand?
Seems to me the your (OP) biggest problem is that you don't want to pre-order but you don't want to wait until April 6 to play. It's one or the other and no amount of screaming 'bait and switch' is going to change that. Sounds like you just want everything your way, when you want it and you don't want to wait. Sorry it doesn't work that way. Either pre-order or stand in line and wait with the rest of us.
Well, you seem poorly informed... but this thread is pretty long, so I am assuming you didnt read all of it (no big deal).
The problem is not when people can play, or if you have to pay for it. The problem is that they advertised one thing, knowing that they were not going to provide it. They were made aware of the problem, and chose to change the ads, so that this would not be a problem.
I am already playing the game (without a pre-order). So your statements have proven to be incorrect. If you had followed the thread, you would have seen this... but I understand... and no hard feelings.
P.S. I got everything my way... because they agreed with me. That is how simple it is.
"...and with that cryptic comment, I'm off to bed!"
This thread is as valid as any other, and LotR fans need not defend the add as Superman0x did not once bereate the game or it's developers. He made concise points which were logical and correct in every way. I find it sad that the fans had to attack him in the way they did, and quite sorry for the people who tried to participate in a verbal assault on him. Sorry, because he is smarter than each and every one of his detractors.
And as for this thread deterring people from playing LotRO, that is simply not true, at least for anyone intelligent who reads things and makes objective decisions. This thread has made me decide to pre-order the game by merit of some of the screenshots that were posted in the thread. The graphics are insane!
Also, they changed the adds. Superman0X was right. I know it hurts but perhaps you will be able to go on with your lives.
In reality nothing is free though. The time you are downloading it you are using electricity which costs money. If your computer was off and cable/dsl was not on it would cost even less money on your electric bill? I understand where your coming from, but it is really kind of silly for a marketing campaign for a great game.
If you are going to comment on something, please take the time to look at it. If you are uncertain of what was said, just ask. You should really get the facts straight before you post something. It's no good for anyone involved.
P.S. Participating in fraud, because you feel it is justified is just as bad as false (fraudulent) advertising.
Maybe MMORPG.com took it down? The one I saw had "Play Now!" and then faded to another screen with "Join the Free World Tour of Middle-Earth" after it faded back in, not "Play Free Now!" as you indicated, though this thread was a day or so old.
But then, at the same time there was the "A Tale Of Pirates" advertisement with the "most anticipated game of 2007" tagline, so I definately raise an eyebrow when I read them anyway.
EDIT: Nevermind I see that they had changed the advertisements...good thing last thing we need in this world is more false advertising.
To the tool that said pre-ordering to get into the beta, and then cancelling your pre-order if you don't like the game would break Turbine's EULA for LOTRO....this is a response from a Turbine support person themselves to a question that I submitted to them:
Question: If I play in the open beta before April 24th, and decide to cancel my pre-order for whatever reason (i.e. I don't like the game, etc.), would I be violating any EULA?
Thanks for your time and consideration!
-Ex
Not with us, no!
-Meghan
Online Community Manager
The Lord of the Rings Online
"Settle down, Beavis."
I'm sure this same tool will claim that I just made this whole Q&A thing up, to which I say register to their forums and send a PM to "Patience" (Meghan) yourself.
-Ex
Meghan "Patience" Rodberg
Online Community Manager
The Lord of the Rings Online
"Settle down, Beavis."
Change the date to April 6th, and try again.
P.S. I was registered on thier forums before I even started this thread. If you are going to troll, at least TRY to get your facts straight. Your blatant disregard for the obvios just makes you look bad (but I guess as a troll, you dont care).
P.P.S. I hope you will let this thread die by the start of the OB. It would be a shame to drag this on, when it has been clearly resolved.
Read it again. I clearly covered it in my PM to the Turbine support person. I stated that I pre-ordered, and that I could play (get into the game on Mar 30), and asked if I cancelled my pre-order ANY TIME BEFORE APRIL 24th if it would break EULA. And they said NO.
You are the troll, I went straight to the source and got an official answer to your clearly uninformed position and you still deny it. I did my homework, now go ask them yourself. If you don't you are the troll and fool.
You are wrong, I got the proof and now all you prove is that you are too pigheaded to admit it.
-Ex
Hey guys,
Didn't they change the ad in question already? Stop attacking each other and let's just play the game.
Regardless of who is wrong, all we should care about is rather or not the game is worth the investment of time and money. You can't try to change another's point of view, especially in the forums. Just let it go and play!
To the OP:
I think a lot of companies in their marketing do some things that aren't completely ethical or make 100% sense. One thing that annoys me are those radio commercials where they tell you that you can get this great deal, and then it is followed by someone speaking something in the line of jibberish in a bulletspeed sppech that you cannot understand. Or how about those fineprints eh? But in this case, I think this website put the ad a week too early by mistake of some sort. As far as breaking the EULA, as long as you pre-ordered which enabled you to play from March 30 and then you decide to cancel, since Turbine says it is ok to do so, there shouldn't be a problem I don't think. For folks that cannot play until April 6.. those folks did not pre order, so they made no purchase or commitment... therefore it is a non issue for them. But yeah some of the marketing tactics can be... questionable...
Stop trying to defend your egos and let's talk about the game now. TRUCE!
I too am grateful for the free advertising that bumping this thread enables. It also showcases how great a company Turbine is by responding to even the mildest of issues.
But changing the add doesn't necessarily mean he was right. What was straightforward and plain to most of us was obviously confusing to the OP (his pseudo-intellectual language notwithstanding). Turbine saw this as an opportunity to clarify their great offer regarding LOTRO so that more people could fully understand it. I applaud them for it.
I want to keep bumping this thread until more people see how fantastic Turbine is.
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
I was bored on a Friday afternoon at work and actually found reading this entire thread more entertaining than doing my job (uh-oh, I think I defrauded my company
). Anyway, having invested this much time I just had to post.
First off, LoTR is awesome. I've played a lot of MMORPGs and so far this game is on track to be one of the great ones. They drew inspiration from all of the other successful games and have created a game that seems to hit just the right formula (my opinion).
Secondly, I suppose it never occurred to the OP that the wording on the "Play Free Now!"" graphic was not intended to mislead potential subscribers but was just an error. Maybe they originally planned to open the World Tour for everyone at the same time but then decided to allow pre-orders (potential founders) in a week early and didn't bother to create a new version of the ad graphic. The graphic was clearly wrong but the OP's assertion that it was "Bait and Switch" is unfounded based on the facts in evidence. Bait and Switch would require that they intentionally misled people and I didn't see anyone post anything supporting that claim.
Thirdly, the OP's thread title of "Bait and Switch" is irresponsible and potentially illegal. He basically claimed that Turbine had committed a crime but he clearly doesn't have the evidence to back it up. Accusing someone of a crime without proper evidence is at least unethical and could even be slander.
Anyway, thanks for a fun read.
Just my 2 cents.
I too am grateful for the free advertising that bumping this thread enables. It also showcases how great a company Turbine is by responding to even the mildest of issues.
But changing the add doesn't necessarily mean he was right. What was straightforward and plain to most of us was obviously confusing to the OP (his pseudo-intellectual language notwithstanding). Turbine saw this as an opportunity to clarify their great offer regarding LOTRO so that more people could fully understand it. I applaud them for it.
I want to keep bumping this thread until more people see how fantastic Turbine is.
To give credit where it (appears to be) is due, Midway responded to this... Not Turbine. Midway is the distributor, and is in charge of publishing... and the timing of the ad being changed corresponds with correspondance that I had with them...
However, Turbine has done a great job on the game. I am quite impressed with many of the details of the game. It may not be revolutionary... but they did take the time to learn from the mistakes of other games... and in such it is evolutionary.
The difference between Fraud and a mistake is intent. They (MMORPG.Com/Turbine/Midway) have been free to respond here the whole time. I have stated (since the ad was changed) that I no longer consider it an issue. They responded to a request to change the ad. If they had intended to be fraudulent, they (most likely) would not have. However, they agreed that the ad could be interpreted as providing a false promise (i.e. bait and switch) and so changed it to avoid the problem. Good enough for me.