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why WAR and AOC dont do nothing for me.
Foodoolaws
Member Posts: 212
Its because its all been done before. There is no true freedom within these games, its all class based follow these quest to the next quest or PVP in this arena.
Why i compare WAR and LOTRO to WoW is because its all quest/classed based exploration is only filled by just heading to the next area to quest. There is no getting lost into the world. There is no make your own class no skill based mmos comming out. Its just hold my hand to the next quest till we reach end game.
MMOS now suck and while the MMOS comming out new and refreashing they will still be the same ol thing. MMORPGS seem to have a grim dark future. When AOC and WAR and LOTRO and gods and heros are released within a year or 2 we will all be right here again talking about how MMOS are just blah and the same thing.
Comments
but the current batch of MMOs cloned in some fashion.
I was hoping that SGW would be leveless, but they went down the level road too.
I so agree with you. Really hate all the mmorpgs out there (specially the level based ones). I'm not searching for a game, i'm searching for a world.
Looking forward for the coming game Darkfall tho, seems to give allot of freedom to the players with open pvp, 100% skillbased, no levels, full loot.
Well you can blame a lot of this on the success of Everquest. The masses spoke way back when EQ1 came out and said they preferred a class/level based system. We could all be playing Asheron's Call clones and then we would have skill based (ability to dodge missle and magic attacks, kill someone higher level then you by using better pvp skills) non raid centric games. Loot was all randomized on mobs and you could get the best loot in the game off of many many different types of mobs.
I disagree on WAR being the same though. They are going with a tier based system as opposed to level based and your character will look different based on their tier, such as being bigger, stronger, older, or more menacing looking. Also the game is more based around PVP then World of Raidcraft is. Everything in WAR is based on PVP from the ground up.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
What other game genre, RTS, FPS, RPG, TBS, is changing radically every year so that they aren't looking at a grim dark future?
Couldn't you say the same thing about any game genre?
"Gee, these First Person Shooter games suck now! It's all about shooting other players. The new FPS games coming out are all about shooting other players too, and don't do anything different! It's just different graphics, but you still shoot other players. I think the FPS games have a grim dark future."
What other game genre, RTS, FPS, RPG, TBS, is changing radically every year so that they aren't looking at a grim dark future?
The only one I know of that was successful enough to note was SWG, and they killed the non-level system and dumbed everything down into a level-clone to try and copy off of the other game's successes.
But to the OP, I wouldn't put AoC in the same category as WoW and LOTRO...it may be level based, but there will be alot about AoC that will be different, from the combat, to big pvp battles (that will actually have formations and siege weapons rather than a big ol mosh pit), and player cities. To be honest, I don't care much about how they break out their character advancement (level system) because I'm more interested in all of the other stuff the game has to offer.
Skill based systems are great, and hard to balance, but they are only one piece of the MMO puzzle. You can't write off a game simply because of one facet of a multifacetted game. I wouldn't write off WAR either, as I expect that game to be better (not bigger) than WoW.
What other game genre, RTS, FPS, RPG, TBS, is changing radically every year so that they aren't looking at a grim dark future?
Couldn't you say the same thing about any game genre?
"Gee, these First Person Shooter games suck now! It's all about shooting other players. The new FPS games coming out are all about shooting other players too, and don't do anything different! It's just different graphics, but you still shoot other players. I think the FPS games have a grim dark future."
omg.. He's trying to say that there is no game with freedom..
You are correct, same thing different package.
However it is a beast we the player created. The "new" formula for success has been burned into the mind of every MMO maker with the orgy of profit WoW created.
The only way out is for players who truely want something different, to give something different a real chance....
Here is a start
Ryzom free trial -- http://www.ryzom.com/
EVE free trial -- http://www.eve-online.com/download/
What other game genre, RTS, FPS, RPG, TBS, is changing radically every year so that they aren't looking at a grim dark future?
Couldn't you say the same thing about any game genre?
"Gee, these First Person Shooter games suck now! It's all about shooting other players. The new FPS games coming out are all about shooting other players too, and don't do anything different! It's just different graphics, but you still shoot other players. I think the FPS games have a grim dark future."
omg.. He's trying to say that there is no game with freedom..
Well, off hand I can't think of too many (not counting older games like UO and AC)... of the more "modern" games I'd say EvE is the closest that I've heard of.... (and not counting games on the horizon like DF)
Might be some more...would have been helpful for you to actually list a few of them... instead of chiding the other poster....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What other game genre, RTS, FPS, RPG, TBS, is changing radically every year so that they aren't looking at a grim dark future?
Couldn't you say the same thing about any game genre?
"Gee, these First Person Shooter games suck now! It's all about shooting other players. The new FPS games coming out are all about shooting other players too, and don't do anything different! It's just different graphics, but you still shoot other players. I think the FPS games have a grim dark future."
omg.. He's trying to say that there is no game with freedom..
Well, off hand I can't think of too many (not counting older games like UO and AC)... of the more "modern" games I'd say EvE is the closest that I've heard of.... (and not counting games on the horizon like DF)
Might be some more...would have been helpful for you to actually list a few of them... instead of chiding the other poster....
The reason why i didn't list any game is because i happened to agree with the OP :P so thats why..
And i agree that DF look very promising, but who knows how long it might take for it to even go to open beta.. "we are looking forward for an open beta in april 2004" yeah roooight
One of the games that turned me on to rpg with no levels was the original swg.. Which is why there was such a huge exodus from that game when they changed it.. and people are still bitter about it because now every damn game out there is a clone of WoW with regards to levels and classes..
I think if you want a game like your referring to, you need to watch and follow raph koster and wait to see where he goes and what he helps make for his next mmo. He pretty much has the same philosophy, that restrictions and levels are boring and too constricting. Some of his ideas are nothing but pure genius.. But other times like when he deprived swg content because he believed we should create our own content.. Well that doesn't work when the players don't have the proper tools to do so.. And a lot of players need some quests, raid bosses, etc for content.. I think Raph will turn whatever he works on next, into a great fun online virtual game simulator but he needs to be bound at times when it comes to "player created content only" for his games..
True freedom = PVP any where you want, explore where you want with no limitations except with the possibilty of getting your ass handed to you by mobs, Voting for a faction leader, killing npcs and consequences to follow.
Why i say PVP where you want because this opens up a whole new game for instance they will say because lowbies will always get ganked but my favorite memory of UO was when there were a bunch of reds attacking the outskirts of britian the GY. All of a sudden we all riled up gathered what gear we had and faught back the reds and that was a feeling of acomplishment winning against something that brought fear in the hearts of many.
PVP and PVE have to go hand in hand you can not have one with out the other. Now after that lets take Pre old school UO and PRE NCE and mix them together lets even take ryzom and put that into the mix. Why dont games start wanting to be like PRE NGE SWG and advancing and making a better mmorpg off that system where it lets players do what ever they want, gives them the freedom of changing the world, Player towns and what not. This is what makes a great mmo freedom of interaction, socialism and what have you not what we have no or what we are going to be given.
Give me a Pre NGE SWG that is improved upon and taken care of then a game filled with the same repetitive quest no world changing experences, and linear gameplay.
game play. They tend to stick to what works. It's the nature of the beast.
If anyone happens to have an extra $20-$30 million laying around gathering dust, I'm sure there are plenty of developers who would be willing to put together any type of game you want
Infinity : The Quest for Earth is maybe close to what you are looking for. It will be purely based on player skill, the gameplay will be twitch-based and there will be no levels, classes or character skills AFAIK. I was also getting tired of the same old tried-and-true formula for MMOGs, but this game really seems to be a true sandbox-type game.
wow guess what i know of one but none of you idiots will play it because graphics suck... try hobowars or hobowars2
hobowars.com or hobowars2.com
What other game genre, RTS, FPS, RPG, TBS, is changing radically every year so that they aren't looking at a grim dark future?
Couldn't you say the same thing about any game genre?
"Gee, these First Person Shooter games suck now! It's all about shooting other players. The new FPS games coming out are all about shooting other players too, and don't do anything different! It's just different graphics, but you still shoot other players. I think the FPS games have a grim dark future."
The thing is that there IS room to be original in the MMO genre. Most other genres are too specific. Eg. FPS HAS to involve shooting and be in first person. MMOs however can be whatever. Companies can create a truly unique game, but it seems like no one is getting the drift at the moment.
I've never seen a good skill based game. There were a few of them and they sucked so completely. Besides, innovation has to come slowly or not at all in today's market. You aren't going to go directly from Class Based Games to Class-less games. But classes are getting more open. WAR and AoC are no where near as limeting as WoW. And how in {Insert Diety's Name here} do you know that the content consists of 'follow these quests to the next are' content when these games arent out yet? Please, I'd really like to play WAR, tell me where you can get your hands on it.
What's wrong with quests anyway? I know what wrong with current gen quests, they're crap but if you look at what the Dev's are promising, it's not 'fetch 12 rat tales'. You show you don't know what you're talking about, because WAR is level-less flat game. You can go and explore any part of the world at any time. You'll be at a disadvantage if you go to higher tier zones but you're perfectly capable of doing it and there will be content waiting for you there.
Have you tried just looking for one feature instead of a perfect game. I mean, Vanguard has the exploration you're looking for. Chronicles of Spellborn has the Class-Diversity you're looking for. Personally, I'm looking forward to WAR because player actions shape the world, although it's ina very limeted win/lose way. Other Devs have tried things like that but they've always bit off more than they can chew, it seems like Mythic will pull this off.
The problem with this is that those games proved (at least UO) to cater to PvE "carebears". With the release of Trammel you saw the slow but certain doom of PvP. Although many gamers lust after the "old days" in UO, the server with the old rule set (Siege) made changes (I hear) that made it more casual PvE friendly.
Could a new FFA PvP game succeed? I'm not sure. I think they would have to adapt it a bit to stop griefing, but perhaps that defeats the purpose. I know for a fact that make "hardcore" PvPers enjoy killing "newbies", and not being allowed to sort of defeats the purpose of FFA.
Solutions? I'd like to hear some actual ideas rather than rants.
Doktar - 70 Troll Priest - Perenolde
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
First I would like to say that the only light at the end of the tunnel for the issue the OP posted would be Darkfall, if it ever comes out.
Now, regarding the skill based MMOs rather than the class based ones, let me give you an example. In Ultima Online, that it was skill based, lets say you wanted to be a "spellcaster" (not calling it "mage" to avoid putting him into the "class" trip). So, in order to be a "good" spellcaster, you should also raise a few other skills associated with it, leaving you with a few skill points "free" to allocate to whatever you wished. (Example, I could squeeze my spellcaster skills and I was able to also throw tamming skills in one of my toons in UO, so I made him a "Tammer/Mage". Another example would be that I had another toon, who was a "fighter", (he had some fighting skills advanced along with the healing skill (to heal himself with bandages) instead of shield (so he wasn't exactly following the "tank" / "heavy fighter" pattern) and I also managed to squeze my skill points in that toon and make him also a poisoner, so he could poison his kryss on the fly (it was giving some advantage in pvp like you didn't have to carry 10 pre-poisoned kryss cuz the poison was wearing out or the more poisoning skill you had the less your weapon would corrode from the poison etc). So anyway, a fighter wearing light amor and healing himself with bandages instead of heavy armor, shield etc and also being a poisoner and vu-a-la....an "Assassin" was born
So, again you kinda follow a class patern, "having" to advance some "class" specific skills in order to be "good" at something (like a good spellcaster or fighter in my above examples), but you are still free to add the final touch that would make your template unique or at least to your most liking.
From this aspect, I ofc like more the skill based from the class based ones.
However, I must also say, this is not "game killing" / "earth shaking" feature for me that would make me not play a game. There are other more important issues for me, like gameplay, pvp and how balanced / well implemented is, etc.
I agree with you, right up to the point where you started attacking Funcom about it. Of all the developing companies working with a (technically) level based system, they are the least deserving of your criticism on this point. Their level/skill hybrid system is by far the most versatile of its kind.
"The guys at funcom no less said whats the point in making a game with no restrictions or levels, people just end up screwing up their characters lol" Guess what, the "classes" in Anarchy Online are so "limited" that it is considered extremely rare that anyone does NOT screw up 2 or 3 of their first characters, it does not happen to be because of only one working build in existance, and they are going in exactly the same direction with AoC.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.