Game coming to an end?

starbuk · February 2007

well i've been looking at games and found this, it looks relaly interesting and perhaps looks like the downfall of World War II online.

www.1944game.com/forum/index.php

idk if il get in trouble or this isnt a good place to post it but it has updated graphics and a lot more things you can do. i know it may not be as big as WWII Online but it does look a lot better. check the work in progress part of forum for updated work.

****** In no way or form am i affiliated with the website mentioned above.

iCeh · February 2007

Have to say, that game sounds very good indeed. I've been waiting for a good WW2 FPS game to come out that will top Red Orchestra, seems this may be the one.

Since it's a FPS, I don't know if this is the best place to discuss it... however, I only did a quick scan, but didn't it mention up to 256 players? That sounds massive to me. o.O

WDYWTK · February 2007

Wasn't that game canceled a while ago? Plus why would it destroy Battleground Europe? The marketplace has 50 000 WW2 titles, one more won't do a thing.

xcheater13 · March 2007

Shooting games like this are a lot more successful when released for consoles. Call of Duty 3 is a prime example

Sparre · March 2007

Originally posted by xcheater13

Shooting games like this are a lot more successful when released for consoles. Call of Duty 3 is a prime example

Shooting games like this? Passing by here and think we know everything about WWII Online do we.

This game wouldn't work on any console for multiple reasons. If you know anything about WWII Online would you understand what I'm talking about.

The only similarity this game has with CoD3 is that is within the WWII genre and it is a computer game.

ColdWhiskey · March 2007

I don't know if people got confused like i got , it isn't "Invasion 1944" ( a mod for Operation Flashpoint which seems to have turned flat ). As i understand this game is a small team project (alone) led by a post graduate /or PHD graduate.

I'm sure it will become something great if they do as mentionned , but i remain sceptical it hope what is said is true but it seems strange , the guy is alone and promises to do implement a lot features . How can he manage to do what big companies like ubisoft or small team devs like CRS ain't managed to implement...

I'm ok with the new AI system which is the backbone of his project , which is a great news and i really hope will come true , but for instances it strange he got the time to implement all possible things to be done.

For instance he says a paratrooper would be able to cut his parachute if he get stucked in tree or building : either what he says is true and will requires lods of work or that is only done to get people salivating and won't really be implemented as said which makes you wonder about the credibility of the whole affair ( here you need collisions/physics , lods of various animations and special coding).

Other thing the project was first meant to be a mod for bf2 and UT4 , and he's turning it into a game .I 've never seen a game which was based on a mod released which gets simulatenously:

-good graphics (he changed the graphic engine)

- contains features than the mod was not meant to have ( the pics of the mod look nothing like what is said ,it looks like a regular shooter)

-and add to that the fact the mod what not released.

I'm really eager to see this game out , but it just seems fire and no smoke for me at the moment ,i'm affraid we might never see the color of it.

However i don't see why it would kill WWIIOL as it is complementary to the game:

i'm sure WWIIOL would be glad to play it as they play OFP or IL2.

It will offer a kind of Oblivion alternative to fantasy MMOs.

(The gameplay beeing based on AI and player limit in the 128/256) , but 300 000 AIs.

It's a shame it was turned into a MMO game , the idea is great : think of it , if you would mix WWIIOL PVP and the AIS CRS lacks ,i would have the perfect game in my hands. I don't fear this game ,opposite i hope it will get out quick (if it manages it), i'll gladely play it while waiting for CRS to get out trains ,convoys and so on which is anything but SOON tm.

PillBox · March 2007

Originally posted by ColdWhiskey

(The gameplay beeing based on AI and player limit in the 128/256) , but 300 000 AIs.

The game sounds like a BOT game. 128/256 player/AI limit?

At the beggining of the year, our squad alone had 100 people playing online, all together on the same mission. Seems like this game has a long way to go, and is no threat at all to WWIIOnline.

ColdWhiskey · March 2007

Originally posted by PillBox

The game sounds like a BOT game. 128/256 player/AI limit?
At the beggining of the year, our squad alone had 100 people playing online, all together on the same mission. Seems like this game has a long way to go, and is no threat at all to WWIIOnline.

Not regular stupid BF1942 bots , the whole concept of the game revolves around a gigantic smart AI.

It s certainly not bad news and should provoke more of a relief than fears , who has been bothered by omniscient supershooters AIS in OFP and so on.

It could be a threat in that the AI could be sufficiently good to emulate human reactions , in that you have 300000 simulated humans logged on which is really not bad (massive batlles?).

You'll be able to host 256 players in the same COOP mission or 100/100 (AIs not included) ,so one server could very well emulate a WW2OL Aera of Operation.

But WWIOl got it own strengths : physical accuracy , the good side of no AIs , realism sim aspect,strong mature community....

I imagine casual WW2OL players playing several games could switch one of theier favorite to this one ( like in remplacement of OFP /ArMa or Red Orchestra.) ,however it will certainly not kill the rats .

They have more to fear from lack of pizzas.

SpeedyBanana · March 2007

Am I missing something here? All I see is a couple of pictures of some weapon models and a list of things they want to do in the game but haven't actually done any of them yet. This seems like of an idea in the brainstorming stage rather than a video game.

ColdWhiskey · March 2007

Originally posted by SpeedyBanana

Am I missing something here? All I see is a couple of pictures of some weapon models and a list of things they want to do in the game but haven't actually done any of them yet. This seems like of an idea in the brainstorming stage rather than a video game.

That's what i first thought looking at the boards , however after stubborn googling i falled back onto the site (lol) and found the thread The Map (1944 D-Day : Operation Overlord : Official Game Forums > Hobo Lounge > Work in Progress).

So it looks pretty serious to me and should be added to watch list ( I don't expect much until six months )they said somewhere 2007 for release ..

At the momemnt the forum looks stangely like WWIIOL one at the beginninning ( parachuting dogs an co).

It 's kind of funny .

That's even a little frustrating to find in the building thead town buildings looking like i what you would be expecting from Granik.

OFF topic : why did the Rats circumvent the new building to some areas of the town?it would really make the game instantly for enjoyable and better rated if spread out .If this is a fps hog they could at least put different textures for inside flat buildings:

why not have wood floor rather than continuous cobbled stones , that 's really an immersion breaker.

Same for the gray roofs that 's nonsense. They could just change the texture ...

Palette colors change was one of the greatest changes , just wonder why they took so long to think of it.

See the binocs , it looked like a dumb unusefull insertion , well itl makes the immersion feel a little betterr and at no cost ...

fredrik1 · March 2007

Originally posted by ColdWhiskey
Originally posted by SpeedyBanana
Am I missing something here? All I see is a couple of pictures of some weapon models and a list of things they want to do in the game but haven't actually done any of them yet. This seems like of an idea in the brainstorming stage rather than a video game.

That's what i first thought looking at the boards , however after stubborn googling i falled back onto the site (lol) and found the thread The Map (1944 D-Day : Operation Overlord : Official Game Forums > Hobo Lounge > Work in Progress).
So it looks pretty serious to me and should be added to watch list ( I don't expect much until six months )they said somewhere 2007 for release ..
At the momemnt the forum looks stangely like WWIIOL one at the beginninning ( parachuting dogs an co).
It 's kind of funny .
That's even a little frustrating to find in the building thead town buildings looking like i what you would be expecting from Granik.

First of all, that's an automatic rendering of a height map.. not that impressive considering what they boast the game to be about :P

OFF topic : why did the Rats circumvent the new building to some areas of the town?it would really make the game instantly for enjoyable and better rated if spread out .If this is a fps hog they could at least put different textures for inside flat buildings:
why not have wood floor rather than continuous cobbled stones , that 's really an immersion breaker. Same for the gray roofs that 's nonsense. They could just change the texture ...
Palette colors change was one of the greatest changes , just wonder why they took so long to think of it. See the binocs , it looked like a dumb unusefull insertion , well itl makes the immersion feel a little betterr and at no cost ...

Wth, mate.. seriously..

The new buildings are replacing the old ones.. they started with the smaller ones and end with the larger buildings.. some of the ones you speak about are allready replaced.. changing anything at all with the old buildings is an incredible waste of time.
Also there were no pallet change, they ripped out and REWROTE the lightning engine, there are no pallets in a game with over eight bit color.. they couldn't and didn't just change the global rgb value to -10.

As for performance you should really look forward to the new engine most likely comming out this spring.

dunlop · March 2007

Anything that will challenge WWIIOL is good. Right now, the choice for a WWII MMO are 1. That's not exactly a good way to push development.

What we need is a WWII MMO developed by and larger and better financed company. CRS cannot keep up with the speed of graphics design and they cannot afford to upgrade to a better game engine, so they keep patching the old Unity engine.

Right now, longtime WWIIOL players are dropping in droves due to the increasingly annoying roadblocks to game play.

Anyone that would be able to develop an MMO that takes 3 clicks to get into battle would have carte blanche on the WWII fanbase.

I really hope the lads at CRS would wake up and see what a terrible direction they have chosen. After 6 years, I'm pretty sure they that their course for oblivion is set in stone.

Very sad.

fredrik1 · March 2007

Originally posted by dunlop
What we need is a WWII MMO developed by and larger and better financed company. CRS cannot keep up with the speed of graphics design and they cannot afford to upgrade to a better game engine, so they keep patching the old Unity engine.

This is BS dunlop and you know it or should know it atleast, the old Unity engine is going and the new engine is taking it's place.

And that is not something that is happening in a year, it's happening now.. with the engine that has been in developmet for almost two years.. there is no frigging way that you have missed it.

apperantly you just want to spew random crap around.. which gives you a credibility of zero.

ColdWhiskey · March 2007

Originally posted by fredrik1

>First of all, that's an automatic rendering of a height map.. not that impressive considering what they boast the game to >be about :P

It was to show the engine is made for big scales like WWIIOL , i had doubt because all the other screenshots were made with Unreal Tournament engine.
Consider it to be theier Terrain 2 engine.
>Wth, mate.. seriously..
>The new buildings are replacing the old ones.. they started with the smaller ones and end with the larger buildings.. some >of the ones you speak about are allready replaced.. changing anything at all with the old buildings is an incredible waste >of time.

>Also there were no pallet change, they ripped out and REWROTE the lightning engine, there are no pallets in a game with >over eight bit color.. they couldn't and didn't just change the global rgb value to -10.
It looks good in villages , but not so in big towns. It 's really disheathning to take foot in a town and feel like you were in a field.It's regretfull to lack in area which should be the showcase of the game(well it is since that's what you mostly see in the official trailer).
It 's regretfull because , until a time I stopped believing WWIIOL could one day live up to its "universal" potential and stop to be a what if game, but now i took a plane off offline i peaked down on a city a passed on the area with new buildings and though : WOW! I can't believe it!That's actually a concrete representation of the pros of theier engine .
I mean we constantly hammer the fact there is a 8 km distance , but for what purpose if you don't get sufficient immersion?
WWIIOL survived because of it's fantastice potential and diversity , in so anyone could find something they enjoyed sufficiently and alternate between "those small joys" and oddly enough everyone found a more or less viable way to cohabitate.Now that i think of it that's what make WWIIOL take it's place in a MMORPG forum , because albeit you're not deeply involved in your personna you take the pleasure to freely interact with your environment and are offered a lot of diversity: for instance it happens regularly to soldier player to want suddently to play as a plane out of boredom or more oddly to simply have a break before the heat and talk , wait to be assaulted for a change in a bunker ( those are really great moments ), or calmly watch the horizon for any intruders.
Like a blacksmith can take his sword and decide to go for a fight in a fantasy game you have this so important free will and practical possibility in WW2OL .
That 's what i want to say to newcommers ,unfortunatelly most peoples don't manage to explain the nitty gritty of WWIIOL and convince normal peoples that the game can be extremly enjoyable despite the visible flaws.
The game is enjoyable if you know where to look for and what to expect and not expect ,i'll give you a concrete view:
most peoples playing the game or advertising it are squad peoples they log on to have a chat and have fun or boredom with theier fellowplayers.
I personnaly quitted my squad and took more pleasure playing "incognito" , jumping systematically where i thought the fun was . I'll expose you what make WWIOL a blast and is found nowhere else in the gaming industry ,but sadly poorly advertised on forums:
WWIIOL is the only game online game that will follow your "biological clock " and not otherwise ( not until someone else or yourself condamn to do otherwise):
for instance , let 's say it 's hollidays 8:30 PM , you would normally spend your time on TV / single player game for the time you 're brain is still active .After that you're more or lessly acting randomly, for instance people playing FPS likeCOD/ BF1942 begin to log off and you find yourself acting the same way dying in the same spot over and over again until your brain die off lol...
In wwiiol if it 's hollydays for you first you can play all day anytime and always find someone on the server you like : it 's the same for everybody ,everybody get the same map up to you to roam around where you wish on the location chosen and at your local time.
Now when your mind starts to disconnect but not enough to get into bed , then WWIOL get it good :
after having your big battles with your friends and some souvenirs , you can choose to have a break in game :
for instance i can play a big battle see i get dying over and over again and fell unusefull , so i decide to stop in the middle of the battle , but instead of loggin off like in another game i just get in another vehicle in the same place . For instance it's fun to go on ground near the place you bombed 2min ago. I generally end up changing location after getting killed and play Anti Aircraft gun in the field , just watching people pass by and discuss you'r kind of becoming progressivly becoming spectating rather than acting , you get a plane coming so every 2 minutes so you still have some action .
Just befor going to bed i put meeself on a good spot to watch people blowing up themself , or i simply watch the nature hear people talking or jump for a ride on a boat to hear the litlle wavelets hitting the ship and feeling free
And then I go to bed
You can only have this in WWIOL having sufficiently freedom to pass slowly from excitation to deep calm within 3 hours of play.Exactly like a damn drug!
In other games you just log off and up turning up in your bed , i mean i played stalker and nightmares after what the fun in that lol? For long gameplay i strongly recommend WWIOL on this basis.
Now to come back to what i was illustrating , what make WWIOL such a game is it's diversity , it's rare to put so much different aspects in one game and to be just able to scroll from one to another.
The most concrete feeling of this gigantic mix-up is the end result to the viewer the frontiers between "worlds":
you can shoot a soldier from a plane if you get low enough , now tell me you found another game where you could do the same .
That's really damn great , but you don't see this situation happening much because of the colors:
contrast in game is not that great so until the sun helps you , you'll have difficulties distinguishing a soldier from ground.
Such things happen too much : each possible great feature is getting a let down because not getting sufficient concern from the developpers.
So what if you could make a soldier clearly stand out from it's environment , so you would like in real life or any other shooter that will make the game much more better than any table of equipment or new UI for commanders they never use anyway.
Same for towns , i was thinking : just push all those buildings , say to a reviewer to pass a plane up the city the day after you get thousands of subscriptions...
The most actual analogy is Test Drive Unlimited , you can see buildings very far in it , you get a pretty close technology same concept ( view distance before complete eye candy) , well with same constraints you can get this feeling right now.
CRS has to wait for spring cause they waited t ill someone named Jaeger insulted them so hard to get hired for a new engine coding otherwise the game would be stuck , i'm still amazed they took so much time for keeping 56kers and wondering how to keep ppls with geforce 2 and so on.......
>As for performance you should really look forward to the new engine most likely comming out this spring.
I certainly will , although i'm not playing it actually , I always check for updates and try them offline I also check forums regurlarly.I promised meeself to come back when Unity 2 is out ( tha'ts in mind with new elevation map and/or buildings).
Just hopping it's scheduled before North Africa .

ColdWhiskey · March 2007

Originally posted by dunlop

Anything that will challenge WWIIOL is good. Right now, the choice for a WWII MMO are 1. That's not exactly a good way to push development.
What we need is a WWII MMO developed by and larger and better financed company. CRS cannot keep up with the speed of graphics design and they cannot afford to upgrade to a better game engine, so they keep patching the old Unity engine.
Right now, longtime WWIIOL players are dropping in droves due to the increasingly annoying roadblocks to game play.

I 'm gloabally totally in accordance with this opinion , in the positive way:

I mean if a new game would kill off WWIIOL then no , but i think in this case both games will benefit from theier respective experiences.

Concerning issues , that's a sign they are really acting and that's good to me .

This however should'nt stop new players from having fun when they resolve those very recent issues.

The recent big changes and vista are surely linked to this "peak " of problems.

I trust the Jaeger era , once his work will get correctly implemented he will whip CRS before they start writing bugs.

Cerion · March 2007

Originally posted by dunlop

Anything that will challenge WWIIOL is good. Right now, the choice for a WWII MMO are 1. That's not exactly a good way to push development.
What we need is a WWII MMO developed by and larger and better financed company. CRS cannot keep up with the speed of graphics design and they cannot afford to upgrade to a better game engine, so they keep patching the old Unity engine.

Why do you think there isn't a larger and better financed company willing to do what CRS is doing? That answer should be obvious, but I'll spell it out. There isn't a market for it. There's a reason why 80% of the MMOs are Fantasy-based...there's a market. Then you're lucky ot have a few Sci-fi MMOs. When a potential investor and developer look at the WWII simulator market, what do you think they see? They see a game like WWIIOnline with something like 50k subs (even being generous here) and realize it's not a huge money maker.

If you want to see competition in the WWII simulator MMO market, then you (the general you) have to create that demand. Ironically that means supporting CSR (in my opinion) because bemoaning the lack of an alternate game is not a quantifiable marketing stat that indicates demand.

Eiae · March 2007

Of course there is a market! Millions of people play wargames and the amount of people playing online is booming. A really good wargame mmo will be able to compete very well with most fantasy games. Lots of people are getting tired with the grind/loot/exp style fantasy genre, anyway.

I'm with Dunlop on this, good post.

Cerion · March 2007

Originally posted by Eiae

Of course there is a market! Millions of people play wargames and the amount of people playing online is booming. A really good wargame mmo will be able to compete very well with most fantasy games. Lots of people are getting tired with the grind/loot/exp style fantasy genre, anyway.
I'm with Dunlop on this, good post.

Yeah, not sure of millions, but I'll give that to you since the rest of your arguement is more flawed. Yes, a lot of people play SHOEBOX wargames--the kind that are solo-play, or multi-play (dozen or so of your friends). But those games attract audiences with their hi fidelity graphics and the sort of game design that is built especially for that small audience.

The kind of sacrifices that CRS has had to make regarding game design in order to make it 'fit' into the MMO game space turns off those same SHOEBOX players. MMOs typically have to have lower poly counts in everything from characters to units to buildings. Textures have to be less complicated as well. All of these sacrifices are made so that you can have hundreds of players in the same area and have the necessarily far draw distances.

Furthermore, CRS is setting out to make a simulator of warfare, not a FPS. The market for simulators is far less than that of wargame fans. There is a difference. Think about it for a moment.

Eiae · March 2007

I do not believe that. A better mmo would attract exactly the players you mention. Its just a question of how good the mmo is. Fortunately, some day it will be there.

Nothing flawed in my argument, its just guessing. Exactly like your.

bloodrunner · April 2007

this looks like a great game the A.I. system he talks about is amazing i think. and just to let you guys know this is an mmo its just an fps at the moment

Kadesh · April 2007

Originally posted by fredrik1

Originally posted by dunlop

What we need is a WWII MMO developed by and larger and better financed company. CRS cannot keep up with the speed of graphics design and they cannot afford to upgrade to a better game engine, so they keep patching the old Unity engine.

This is BS dunlop and you know it or should know it atleast, the old Unity engine is going and the new engine is taking it's place.

And that is not something that is happening in a year, it's happening now.. with the engine that has been in developmet for almost two years.. there is no frigging way that you have missed it.

apperantly you just want to spew random crap around.. which gives you a credibility of zero.

Umm no fredrik, its NOT happening 'now' as you well know. There's been talk about Unity 2 for nearly three years now.. starting with a very short video of North Africa.

But it's NOT happening at present, and if CRS keeps losing subscriptions at the same rate (a thousand unsubbed due to weather/fog alone!) then chances are we're NEVER going to see Unity 2.

Fredrick1, you have a builder's subscription, don't you? Must be tough to see that money you spent going right down the drain

fredrik1 · April 2007

Originally posted by Kadesh
Umm no fredrik, its NOT happening 'now' as you well know. There's been talk about Unity 2 for nearly three years now.. starting with a very short video of North Africa.
But it's NOT happening at present, and if CRS keeps losing subscriptions at the same rate (a thousand unsubbed due to weather/fog alone!) then chances are we're NEVER going to see Unity 2.

Kadesh.. Unity II is beeing developed as we speak, and has been for over 2 years (or three, I don't remember), nowhere did I see anything about the cancelation of Unity 2.

CRS has chosed to add features that will exist in Unity II to Unity I so that we the players more rapidly can get the performance increase that these buy. Some of those were recently released as an beta executable, some will come in 1.26 and the bulk 1.27...

And the weather/fog thingy will be gone in 1.26

Fredrick1, you have a builder's subscription, don't you? Must be tough to see that money you spent going right down the drain

Wow.. well that's one way to make a point.. no it doesn't if you like to know.. most likely because I see no drain, there where no wasted money as you seem to be telling me..

Even if CRS closed shop today it wouldn't be any wasted money.. not that they will, they aren't even close to do that. Besides, last I heard from the rats, they were gaining subscriptions, not loosing them...

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