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Intresting.........
Reklaw
Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
First of i fully admit at times to get very frustrated sometimes on this forum particulair as some of you might have noticed, but this thing i read on the Silky Venom forum was pretty intresting, atleast i found it to be. 
but i'm also aware of those things not always been followed same like Rules of Conduct on this site that many of us including me not always life by.
but i'm also aware of those things not always been followed same like Rules of Conduct on this site that many of us including me not always life by.Top Four Most Effective Ways to Get Ignored by Important People
By "important people," I mean people who matter to Vanguard. Sigil developers, SOE representatives, class leaders, etc. Hate to break it to some of you, but you, the individual reading this, do not matter in the grand scheme of things. Yes, the playerbase as a whole matters, obviously, but unfortunately we, the playerbase, are not all of the same consciousness. So pay attention because you're already fighting an uphill battle to bring attention to your issue. Even as affiliate site staff, we have to compete for the developer's time. They are busy working on the game, after all.
So, I give you the top four easiest, quickest ways to lose that battle before it even gets started by getting ignored completely by a VIP:
_____________________________________________
1. Gross exaggerations.
"...nerf everything..." "...nothing works..." "...everything is broken..." "...unplayable..." "...doomed..." "...failure...", etc.
Exaggerating is a very common way to make a point sound more solid and viable. Unfortunately, it often has the opposite effect. While it may seem that way to you, it more often than not simply isn't true, and definitely isn't true to all people. Most of the time the only evidence you have is circumstancial, and sometimes even worse: hearsay. Neither of which leads to any kind of insightful posture or to any kind of fix.
The antithesis to this is providing all of the detailed data you can to make your point and let the reader determine for themselves how big of an issue it is. Incidentally, threads that are full of factful data will get much more notice by the class leads and Sigil. (We'll make sure of that.)
_____________________________________________
2. Insults.
"...sigil lied about..." "...sony lied about..." "...greedy...", etc.
This is otherwise called biting the hand that feeds you.
Yes, you're right, I'm well aware that you are a paying customer. Unfortunately, that does not mean you own the world and everything in it. The reality is that you are only one of hundreds of thousands of paying customers, all with their own priorities and wishes and demands.
When Sigil appears to change their stance on something, it is almost certainly due to one or more of the following:
a. They were convinced to do so by other paying customers who may not agree with you.
b. You misunderstood.
c. It's simply a bug (thus not intended) and will be fixed.
If you feel frustrated enough to want to insult a Sigil developer, the best course of action is to take deep breaths, counting slowly to 10, and post nothing. As in #1, take a calm approach. Post what you thought you understood, what you know now, and let the reader decide how big of an issue it is.
_____________________________________________
3. Ambiguity.
"That one thing by the place in that area by the thing...is broken."
There are levels of ambiguity. Some is unavoidable since you may not be able to get as much information as you'd like. But doing your due dilligence in getting as much information as you can will go a long way to giving something for the board members and Sigil to chew on. If you get the ball rolling, maybe other players can fill in the missing details, but otherwise it is a waste of space to post about what you don't know (unless, of course, you're asking a question).
_____________________________________________
4. Overreacting/overdemanding.
"...Sigil better fix this NOW or else..."
Usually, overreactions are littered with #1s, #2s, and #3s.
So Sigil decided to nerf your 'soloing 5d mobs' class, or your favorite 'gain a level per hour' hunting spot, or your 'instant-cast no-recast timer' effect on your favorite weapon. (Notice the exaggerations in the previous sentence.) And now, you can't even solo blue 1d mobs, it takes weeks to level, or the effect on your weapon makes it completely useless. (Isn't this fun?)
Bottom line: suck it up. At some point or another, every single player has had at least one "favorite" nerfed, and it will continue to happen. Sigil has made every effort to prevent having to do so, but in a world as large and complex as Telon, stuff slips through the cracks (including player's avatars, sometimes...). And many times, Sigil will be the ones to overreact and may, in fact, go too far.
But that is no reason to raise a call to arms. Chances are, Sigil already *knows* they went too far with their nerf or enhancement. And if they don't know, they're counting on you to snoop out the details and provide them data that they can use to tune balance more finely. It is hard to wade through harsh demands, exaggerations, ambiguity and insults to determine that, for one, there really is an issue, and for another, what they need to do to fix it.
So, I give you the top four easiest, quickest ways to lose that battle before it even gets started by getting ignored completely by a VIP:
_____________________________________________
1. Gross exaggerations.
"...nerf everything..." "...nothing works..." "...everything is broken..." "...unplayable..." "...doomed..." "...failure...", etc.
Exaggerating is a very common way to make a point sound more solid and viable. Unfortunately, it often has the opposite effect. While it may seem that way to you, it more often than not simply isn't true, and definitely isn't true to all people. Most of the time the only evidence you have is circumstancial, and sometimes even worse: hearsay. Neither of which leads to any kind of insightful posture or to any kind of fix.
The antithesis to this is providing all of the detailed data you can to make your point and let the reader determine for themselves how big of an issue it is. Incidentally, threads that are full of factful data will get much more notice by the class leads and Sigil. (We'll make sure of that.)
_____________________________________________
2. Insults.
"...sigil lied about..." "...sony lied about..." "...greedy...", etc.
This is otherwise called biting the hand that feeds you.
Yes, you're right, I'm well aware that you are a paying customer. Unfortunately, that does not mean you own the world and everything in it. The reality is that you are only one of hundreds of thousands of paying customers, all with their own priorities and wishes and demands.
When Sigil appears to change their stance on something, it is almost certainly due to one or more of the following:
a. They were convinced to do so by other paying customers who may not agree with you.
b. You misunderstood.
c. It's simply a bug (thus not intended) and will be fixed.
If you feel frustrated enough to want to insult a Sigil developer, the best course of action is to take deep breaths, counting slowly to 10, and post nothing. As in #1, take a calm approach. Post what you thought you understood, what you know now, and let the reader decide how big of an issue it is.
_____________________________________________
3. Ambiguity.
"That one thing by the place in that area by the thing...is broken."
There are levels of ambiguity. Some is unavoidable since you may not be able to get as much information as you'd like. But doing your due dilligence in getting as much information as you can will go a long way to giving something for the board members and Sigil to chew on. If you get the ball rolling, maybe other players can fill in the missing details, but otherwise it is a waste of space to post about what you don't know (unless, of course, you're asking a question).
_____________________________________________
4. Overreacting/overdemanding.
"...Sigil better fix this NOW or else..."
Usually, overreactions are littered with #1s, #2s, and #3s.
So Sigil decided to nerf your 'soloing 5d mobs' class, or your favorite 'gain a level per hour' hunting spot, or your 'instant-cast no-recast timer' effect on your favorite weapon. (Notice the exaggerations in the previous sentence.) And now, you can't even solo blue 1d mobs, it takes weeks to level, or the effect on your weapon makes it completely useless. (Isn't this fun?)
Bottom line: suck it up. At some point or another, every single player has had at least one "favorite" nerfed, and it will continue to happen. Sigil has made every effort to prevent having to do so, but in a world as large and complex as Telon, stuff slips through the cracks (including player's avatars, sometimes...). And many times, Sigil will be the ones to overreact and may, in fact, go too far.
But that is no reason to raise a call to arms. Chances are, Sigil already *knows* they went too far with their nerf or enhancement. And if they don't know, they're counting on you to snoop out the details and provide them data that they can use to tune balance more finely. It is hard to wade through harsh demands, exaggerations, ambiguity and insults to determine that, for one, there really is an issue, and for another, what they need to do to fix it.
Comments
This is MMORPG.COM, not some VG trash affiliate where the owners may or may not have some sort of incestous relationship with Sigil and where Brad can stroll in and demand censorship to avoid negative press about his pig of a game.
As far as not getting ignored by 'important' people, well thats a load of crap put out by people who have a pretty high, and undeserved, opinion of themselves. BMQ and the rest of his crew has forgotten that they are not the important people in the equation, as with any business, the customers are the 'important' people.
But yea, I agree with the gist of the post.
1. Gross exaggerations
Vanguard is a 3rd gen MMORPG
2. Insults
Releasing and charging for a beta quality product among others
3. Ambiguity
Where do I begin...
4. Overreacting/Overdemanding
Nerf this class, boost this class, teleports are temp, fast travel going in, gotta itemize some stuff for the elites, dammit upgrade your computers people, death needs severe penalty, death too harsh...........etc
So now, I and tens of thousands of other gamers are ignoring Sigil.
They are quite effective in that regard.
More proof of the distinct lack of any kind of business acumen where Sigil/SOE or anyone who supports them are concerned. More of the "it's your fault" or "shutup and deal with it" attitude. Fortunately, there are plenty of companies out there that do not operate under these ridiculous Draconian principals . Just choosing SOE as a publisher now is virtually guaranteeing that you will alienate a substantial number of your potential playerbase before your product is even released. I will NEVER buy an SOE product again.
I wanted to play God's and Heroes, but I wont because SOE are involved. I know SOE are trying to get Star Trek and I won't play that either if SOE are involved. Proof positive that choosing SOE as your publisher alienates customers. I know many, many other people who feel exactly the same way. SOE/Sigil have taken liberties with my money and more importantly, my trust. Moreso, they have done it more than once. This ridiculous assertion that we should "suck it up" and continue to finance unfinished dross is completely unnacceptable and must end, NOW.
WOW!!!!!....... not as in world of wallabies.........but im stunned by the sheer stupidity of that post!!! To summarise if you have an opinion or believe anything other than do what SOE/Sigil say or how they run their game then don’t say anything because they wont listen!!!! LOL this has taken their sheer arrogance and complete distain for their customers to a new level. So many of those comments are sheer stupidity, i don’t even know where to begin.
"Bottom line: suck it up............Sigil already *knows* they went too far with their nerf or enhancement.............While it may seem that way to you, it more often than not simply isn't true"
Well first point sums up SOE/sigil completely. If you bought anything broken off a retailer in the UK and they turned around and said that then they be facing investigations under the goods and services act. On the flip side what a wonderfully typical way of how SOE alienate their customers.....Boy you think that attitude would have been dropped after the SWG fiasco.
SOE/Sigil are a company that SHOULD have the experience and take the time and effort to properly play test their characters so the nerf bat doesn’t wreck their characters. They should know before they have even released they have gone to far and tone it down
LOL the last point is totally hilarious!! Whilst i played Vanguard i lost a level on 2 separate characters (was told there was nothing they could do about it and it was a problem they knew about), lost 2/3s of my items, had crash to desktop every 1/2 hour, severe lag, missing textures, fps down to non existent in groups and the list goes on and on..........that all is evidenced fact and is reproducible and entirely true. Most of the SOE/Sigil game problems are true that is the problem!!!
SOE has bastardised their own player based in EQ2 for this game and no doubt will have lost alot more station player accounts. The fact they have just put it up is astonishing. I too wont even buy another SOE/sigil product even again. That includes gods and heroes because as sigil said they just doing the servers has spiralled into all sorts of involvement. ie the forced early alpha release of vanguard.
I pray perpetual will have the good sense not to let SOE touch one of the potentially best MMO’s ever made - Star trek
As for silky venom!!!! LOL they are sooo far up the SIGIL's rectus maximus that its worth posting as anything that hurts their precious little narrow view point is censored!! Its wonderfully how in the free world free speech is a basic requirement of modern society yet when independent thought or speech is exercised around SOE or its minions it is quickly quashed.
Top Four Most Effective Ways to Get Ignored by Important People - YOUR CUSTOMERS
1. Gross exaggerations.
Publish a sub-standard broken, buggy, no content pile of steaming doo doo and called it the fourth generations MMO gaming
2. Insults.
Ignore your customers and tell them there is nothing wrong when the game is falling to bits and convince them they are at fault when they voice their concerns about the endless bugs.
This is otherwise called biting the hand that feeds you.
3. Ambiguity.
Deny everything and accept nothing. Unless you are brad mcquaid and have to write huge posts about all the mistakes you made and how in 6 months once people are bored of BC they’ll come play your game. OMG that point still boggles the mind.....
4. Under reacting/under-delivering.
Don’t do anything to fix the serious performance errors in the software! The colour of the cloaks is soo much more important and phew thank god you fixed levitating instead of fps/crash to desktop. Spend 2 years telling your fan base how wonderful your game will be, get dropped by the biggest software house in the world then join the most hated MMO publisher in the business and release far to early just because they say so. Then tell the world there’s nothing wrong with it and they are all crazy.
I would have posted this on silky venom but they would have just deleted it because it’s something they are not used to over there. ..The truth!
If we can't exaggerate in our complaints, they can't exaggerate in their responses. Have they really made EVERY effort? I don't think so. Especially not when they came right out of the gate in retail completely redesigning some classes and how they play (Disciple anyone?). In my eyes, they've made very little effort to avoid nerfing.
Let me nip this flame-fest in the bud. This post was made by Nolaquen of the SilkyVenom web site, which is a fansite. Do not quote this link and accuse Sigil/SOE of posting it. I can quote some l33t speek from some fan-site a fan posted, (hell something on this site) and put the name Vangaurd or SOE sux in the title and everyone will jump on the ol flame bandwagon going as far as to nitpick sony's spelling of the word "pwned you noobs".
In short, click the link before you assume this is a Sigil/SOE post. It was made by a gamer, not the game deves or publishers.
Arioc
Arioc Murkwood
Environment Artist
Sad but true.
I would agree that your four ways to get ignored are applicable, not just to Sigil, but to any human interaction if carried to an extreme. But, I totally disagree with your bottom line. People who spend good money or who anticipate doing so on a new MMO have every right to vent their grief. If Sigil chooses to ignore them, so be it. But enough angst turns into lost revenue, and Sigil won't ignore that.
whats even more amazing... How many lame computer superhero's spew "I hate Vanguard so it's the biggest piece of junk ever" and "Because I hate this game everyone must hate it too or I'm gonna post over and over on a forum saying I hate it and everyone else must too and I'm not even gonna be original, I'm just gonna copy and paste my same ignorant statements over and over till my nuggets drop and I can actually do something with my life..."
you dont like it? good for you. I like it. good for me.
Thalos Vipav
Star Wars Galaxies: R.I.P.
whats even more amazing... How many lame computer superhero's spew "I hate Vanguard so it's the biggest piece of junk ever" and "Because I hate this game everyone must hate it too or I'm gonna post over and over on a forum saying I hate it and everyone else must too and I'm not even gonna be original, I'm just gonna copy and paste my same ignorant statements over and over till my nuggets drop and I can actually do something with my life..."
you dont like it? good for you. I like it. good for me.
More power to you, I never said YOU shouldn't like it, in fact I have NEVER told anyone what they should or shouldn't like. These are my opinions and sometimes those of people I know. I maintain it is garbage and will be steam rollered by many of the far more polished and professional products being released at different times during the year. Time will tell.
mmo's are like drugs if the dealer screws up somehow to the masses of addicts then the users get pissed and agitated , even if the problems are fixable, or the dealer picked the buds to early to pay for the electric bill to grow better and larger buds next time. Welcome to the ME..I want it now generation. Also i have noticed this myself included, the first mmo you play jut doent seem to live up to the rest the other mmo's after the first just kinda keep us squeeking by looking for one that was as exhilerating as the first one we ever played.
you know what that reminds me of? HEROIN the first few times are excellent the rest of the times are like methadone, just doesnt live up to the first few heroin times but just keeps us squeeking by.The whole while yer agitated and pissed off, pointing fingers and flaming and bitching and moaning at anything and everything.
playing eq2 and two worlds
If you ever look closely, the Devs never rarely say "gee you make a great point and so we are going to change that." What they do instead is pick some innocuous post, like the type the OP urges people to make, and use it as a springboard to say what they were going to do anyway.
Most of the Devs suffer from cognitive dissonance. If you say anything that goes against their strongly held opinions, or just ask for something that would be worky to implement, they tune out. You can say it nice, or you can fill it with cursing and invectives, but if they are hearing something they don't want to hear they will ignore you just the same.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
QFT+E
Not to mention half the fanbois are falling for it and sticking up for the devs and their contant bad decisions.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Mate, times have changed
As playerbase (at least those of us with a sense of reason and responsibility), we no longer scream trying to attract the attention of the "important people". Instead, it is THEM who should humble their majesty asses from their thrones, lower their royal ears and pay attention to what we are whispering.
They don't? We simply move on. And their majesties are left to their dead servers.
"Important people" in Sigil have been learning this lesson. And I sure hope you would!
CONTRIBUTE INTO THE GAMING INDUSTRY! STOP PAYING FOR BORING COPYCATS, UNFINISHED BUGFESTS AND CRANKY JUNKWARE. BE A RESPONSIBLE GAMER!
Don't worry m8 my only text was "First of i fully admit at times to get very frustrated sometimes on this forum particulair as some of you might have noticed, but this thing i read on the Silky Venom forum was pretty intresting, atleast i found it to be.
All the text that was below mine was all copy/paste from SV
I asked this on their official forums:
http://community.godsandheroes.com/jive/message.jspa?messageID=65841#65841
Consumers or Sony Online... Your statement applies so well to both.
Delete me.
I asked this on their official forums:
http://community.godsandheroes.com/jive/message.jspa?messageID=65841#65841
ROFLMAO, do you actually believe that? They arent doing the billing? Funny how I have to log into the station (owned by SOE in case you were unaware) in order to subscribe and it has all the earmarks of an SOE fiasco. The only thing they changed since SWG is now they are trying to distance themselves from the product slightly to reduce the damage the SOE name causes. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck etc. Log into the station in order to subscribe to what? I am on their forums and could not use my SOE account. I have no idea what your talking about.
I asked this on their official forums:
http://community.godsandheroes.com/jive/message.jspa?messageID=65841#65841
ROFLMAO, do you actually believe that? They arent doing the billing? Funny how I have to log into the station (owned by SOE in case you were unaware) in order to subscribe and it has all the earmarks of an SOE fiasco. The only thing they changed since SWG is now they are trying to distance themselves from the product slightly to reduce the damage the SOE name causes. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck etc.Log into the station in order to subscribe to what? I am on their forums and could not use my SOE account. I have no idea what your talking about.
Oh, soz, I only just realised you are talking about Gods and Heroes. Sorry I won't be buying into that either. They supposedly had no say over Vanguard either and I can see where that is going (has gone). My rule of thumb from now on is that if SOE are in ANY way involved, no thanks. More power to you if you are willing to deal with them, I am not.