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Do you think casual gamers will have a chance in WAR PVP?
BattleFelon
Member UncommonPosts: 483
As a tabletop WAR fan, I'm really looking forward to this game. However, I also know I'm more of a casual gamer in past MMORPGs, sometimes able to spend entire afternoons playing but at times not logging in for several days or even a couple weeks due to my schedule. Some of the promises of group quests and level-based zones look very promising - but I'm still wary having been burned by the L33T gear grind of WOW. Does anyone else share my concerns?
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MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
Gear is the easy part,if you have a good job don't waste time farming just by gold.If I was back at my old job making $36 dollars an hour ide rather work 2 hours than farm for 12 hours.
It's being in a casual guild,and not being on enough to rely on.The kind of players you'll have to run with are pvp cannon fodder.If you can play a high demand class compitently then that will get you better grps,slighty better.Since Imo those classes should be filled first not last.Basically you could get into semi-casual grps.Usally most of the group is on vent,execpt the guy lost and dead in the wrong zone.
It's my hope it will be playable by casual gamers too. PvP should be something that you can just run in and enjoy for some short time, not something u need to prepare for and play for a really long time. Atleast that's what I think.
Ofc the "battlegrounds" should take some time, but the open areas where u defend different places shouldn't require much time.
Ugh. I hate when people are so casual about breaking the rules that the developers set down for their game. How can you trust people that are so open about being cheaters and liars?
Anyway, gear in WAR is supposedly not going to be as defining to your character's strength as it is in other MMOs. If you use WoW as an example, gear improvements were simply unbalanced and insane. Your level 60 character could have 6,000 mana, and 4,000 of that would be from +int bonuses! I don't think WAR will take it to such extremes. You also have to remember that WoW rewarded uber loot in raids that casual players simply couldn't get to, and then that uber gear made their owners overpowered in PvP. In WAR, the gear comes from all sorts of places, from PvP and PvE quests, drops from PvP, Public Quests, and city sieges (which will probably offer the best gear).
Seriously.
It's Are'el. This forum doesn't allow apostrophes in usernames.
I hate to break the new's,but mmo's do require an investment of significant amounts of time.Theres games that you can pop right in,but then people complain there not deep enough,like fps or combat sims.
War will be even rougher on the casual's and semi-causuals.Since in DAoC they could mass together and zerg keeps.In War they wont be alble to do that when you have several leet grps farming the instas.casuals will get whacked if they roam since they are just to disorganized as a unit.
If they camp resouse spots in mass,where im guessing zerg,vs zergs will happen.there will still be leet grps roaming and killing reinforcements.
War is looking to be a high-end players type of game. No more alb lord zergs like in daoc.
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They are using a point based system to balance instas,its in a recent thread.Points are derived from lvl,gear,and skill tree,some pvp exp bar possibly.So at most a zerg can't outnumber the other side 4 to 1 like they used to maybe at best 3 to 2 odds. The point system does not take into account vent/tactics/group organization or cohhesion). I have been on a relic raid where 16 leet players,took out 100 casuals,and took thier relic.
Hitting the follow key and going afk in a zerg days are gone.Personally I hate siege duty,but now they reversed it from daoc,where the new players did siege,and the vets roamed.now there making the vets fight in multiple grps.And you know how they get about that.to take cities.
the newer players are more likely to roam.If they pick on r new pvp players repeatedly(more than just a few run into's) with one of thier top leet grps,I can assure u 90% of your realms organized groups will hunt them like dog's.They will have a parriah like rep,they will be intentionally AJ,d.If they continue greifing r newbies and avoid a true fight.We will get on there vent channel and find out wth they are doing,also it wont be long before there own realms disowns them and vents us what there running,who thier running and where there running,along with thier blessising to wave the 8v8,6v6 code of conduct vs them.
They most likely at that point will re-roll to another server. It's not a leet vs casual thing,it just leets like to keep it ideally not being zerged 50 to 8.
As far as cutting off reinforcements,thats legit,best way to get back to a battle is to stay near or navigate thru aggro.Most grp drivers avoid aggro.since they get yelled at if they get any.
Only thing easy in an mmo is getting lost and killed.but don't be overly concerned with the vet players griefing you.
Didn't realize there was a training RVR video linked to the WAR forums, so I went and watched it for more info on how RVR really works.
Just curious Healforfood since I don't have DAOC experience, how casual friendly was DAOC? Also, why do you think only elite groups will dominate in RVR? It seems there are plenty of things casuals can do in terms of grabbing objectives in open zones, and the devs are promising that scenarios are going to be well balanced. Which in my mind possibly means no pre-made teams, or maybe limited pre-made teams that cannot dominate the battlefield all by their lonesome.
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OK,back to topic.
imo DAoC gamers and WoW gamers have a totally different use/meaning of the word casual.
I never played WoW,So I use the general daoc meaning,which also applies to some other PvP games.
Casual in doac is not an indictation of the hours per week you play it.But more what you are willing to give up or do,to be involved with serious groups,aka leet.Some of the best players i,ve seen only played 12-15 hours per week.
A casual gamer in the eyes of the leets are generally this
They will only play thier favorite toon regardless of what the group needs.
They seem to always have vent or mic issues
They generally do thier own thing as far as targeting or peeling targets.
They generally give little to no notice when they are leaving the group.
They will usually quit after 1 or 2 wipes
They take forever to re-rally
Are constantly AFK
In combat they often chase,run out of heal range and die.
Put 6 of those type of players in a grp and see how effective it is.
notice I ,nor 95% of vet players judge people on raw talent,that takes time.All good groups wan't is that you follow the basics and do your best.
Well in that case, I actually think I might have a chance. Most of my PVP experience is from first WOW then arenas and occasional guild battles in GW. Certainly in GW, a big secret to success is following group commands and being flexible in your playstyle according to what the group needs. I've had a good deal of PVP success doing so in GW even without putting a great deal of hours.
However, casual in WOW is something completely different and because of the obscene gear based discrepancies it was hard to get invited to the good groups unless:
A. you raided 3-5 days a week for top tier gear
B. you PVPed 30-60 hours a week, every week, to get the top ranked PVP gear
Of course it was then a catch 22 if you played 15-20 hours like I do, or GASP took a week off from the honor kill grind. The better groups don't want you but there's no chance in hell a PUG will beat an A-list group.
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nah,you just play mature and do you best,and do whatever the groupleader says,and you will do fine in Mythic system.Thats about all I do and I get dream groups.and many US organized grps only run say 8est-12est anyways.
youll like this system alot better,plus theres so many caps on gear and if there is(better be)pvp earned abilities.a 12hr per week good player can earn more than a 40hr/week casual. and the pvp rewards mythic gives,u generally get a good set in no time.
$OE lies list
http://www.rlmmo.com/viewtopic.php?t=424&start=0
"
And I don't want to hear anything about "I don't believe in vampires" because *I* don't believe in vampires, but I believe in my own two eyes, and what *I* saw is ******* vampires! "
12 hours per week would be about the minimum ide recomend.thats 2 3hrs runs and maybe 6hrs on a day off.Any less I'de be lying to help EA make money,if i didn't recommned on-line combat sims.or RTS instead.
But you are more than welcome to play 1hr per week if that floats your boat.
Casuals should have a little more fun and suffer less from hardcore smack down while climbing the ranks, for a few reasons:
1. PvP is zone and tier specific - if you take 3 months to earn the experience to get past tier 1, you'll face nothing but other tier 1 players that entire time in the six tier 1 zones.
2. PvP will give the player experience. Its impossible to spend a lot of time playing without "leveling." Anyone who puts a lot of time into playing will level out of the tier. Once out of the tier, if he comes back to the lower tier zone, he can't attack and gets a nasty debuff that makes him vulnerable to the lower tier guys.
3. Scenarios are balanced on a point system, not by population. If some player manages to gift all kind of cool equipment and enchantments on his lower tier character, that character gets a point value based not only on his rank and skill tree choices, but also his equipment and enchantments - meaning one seriously boosted character may find himself alone in a scenario against an equal point value in casuals.
How easy things will be once you max is another question. So far they're insisting that they're working on an economic model that will make gold selling difficult, the value of gear is being downplayed, and they're saying that PvE, PvP and crafting will all be able to produce roughly equivalent gear (while crafting will also be able to enhance gear dropped in PvP or PvE). Scenarios there will also still be point balanced. Sounds promising.
Please forget about wow and what they call causual.In daoc/war is playstyle over gear.
And for those who never really fought organic oppenents,mythic has some PvP psychological assimilation program set up my Cornell university to ease u into pvp.
Alot of the highest scoring groups on my server for daoc where groups with the primary members being working class people. PvP got hot in the pvp zone around 6pm and ran hot and heavy until about 11pm and then became a ghost town.
the last game was casual friendly, why wouldnt the next one be?? In a game thats skill based not ger based it can really only be casual friendly. Its the grind for gold,gear, stats, reputation that makes something non casual friendly.
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HAHAHA
Thats a really good post
The gap between tier 1 and tier 3 is not that large as far as raw power goes. The movememnt through the tiers is more latteral than straight up. so you can actually be a level 30 blocking arrows for a level 40 priest.
it all depends on the community actually. DAoC pvp started at level 40. it was quite common to be in mass combat with people 10 levels higher than me. The game after a few years turned into a max level event but that was more the community changing than the game changing.
A neat idea such as the Public Quest System will be a big help for casual gaming. I love the idea of just being able to jump in and play. From what Paul Barnett says it seems they want the game to be fun first. An excellent strategy to keep the game alive.
I humbly believe that this game will compete with WoW closely because of 1) ease of play / difficult to master concept 2) not as self centered style of game play. Your character is gaming for its races survival. Not for uber gear. 3) PvP with purpose. While there will be some instances of "capture the flag", the victory goes towards advancing your race in dominating the region and the 4) Endgame - capturing the enemy capital ( the end boss and pvp are your ultimate foes!). Not going to some instanced dungeon that is run over and over again on the off chance of getting an item to drop.
Ok first of all we have to look away from the mmo rpg perspective for a second here. Now if you don't play Warhammer or Warhammer 40,000, alot of this game won't make sense, which is why Mythic is putting in the PVE aspect. However, if you do play Warhammer you'll know where i am coming from when i say this. Warhammer is based on fighting, the PVE side of WAR is an extra. Mythic, unlike THQ, is trying to make this as much as warhammer as possible, while trying to make money on the side. What Mythic and alot of other people don't seem to understand is, the table top game is based violent behaviour, like ripping peoples heads off, or storming a castle to get the leaders head on a pike or to even take a battlefield thats the purpose of Warhammer the table top game. I also realize that the little kid factor of trying it to make it like rated G or whatever is an option as well. But the reason why alot of people hate WoW is cause its looks like a cartoon and its no where near violent, like pink and yellow armour, give me a break. What i am getting at here is the fact that we need to make this game as violent and blood drenched as possible. Forget about the trying to make huge somes of money off 12 year olds and their daddies, think of Warhammer. This game is being made for fans of Warhammer and the Games Workshop universes who are sick and tired of blizzard ripping off their ideas continusely and not even getting it right when they do it. Warcraft is the family friendly sensored version of warhammer and its stories are pathetic and go no where. To sum it all up, you can not make warhammer into mmo rpg aspects without including the none stop pvp as well as violent combat, it will just not work.
PS: When THQ made Dawn of War, no doubt that this is a great game, but the violence and overall content in general from the story line to the dialog was brought down so that the little kids could play it. Considering that children do play Warhammer the table top game, they can not grasp the actual aspect of the game. These universes were not made for children, they were made for teens and adults. The idea of playing with little plastic men may seem childish to people who do not understand the story behind, but these games were not made for small children in mind.