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Was fighting a named npc that was one level above me, it was 11 and I was 10.
Had some pretty old armor on me on the first fight, so I went and upgraded it, basically doubling my armor value.
Guess what the fight went exactly as it had before, he was hitting me for the same value every time as the previous fight.
Complete waste of money. So do not upgrade armor if you are just looking at a difference in armor, does not appear to effect fights much at all.
Comments
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TheCore
Unfortunately, this is not very good. Leveling should include armor and weapon values.
Comments?
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
yap, I believe higher lvl of armour and weapons shld gives a player more value as in they have greater str and take less dmg, able to do more dmg etc... but maybe the armour that the op buys didnt have any def boost that's why he's being hit the same amount of hp. But did he do more dmg with a better weapons?
RIP Orc Choppa
Thanks for the heads up...I think next time I upgrade my armor I'm going to do a little test of my own to see if I can replicate the OP's results...
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
However, I think where guards get defined as the real tanks is with the AOE taunt skills they get in their 20s. No one else get's such things.
Comments...
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Well if this was the intended design, I would have to classify it as a MAJOR design flaw.
Personally I am a bit disappointed in Turbine if this is the case.
Did you try checking your common damage mitigation value? If you still have your old armor you can put it on and see what % the damage is reduced by and then the same with the new armor. That should give you a much clearer idea of what it is actually doing for you. (Or not doing for you as the case may be.)
P.S. If you feel there really is an issue here then your best bet is to raise the topic on the official forms. The devs actually read those
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psyconius Cthulhu
Gothika Studios
I went to the official forums you guys should read this thread.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=36554&highlight=armor+mitigation
Maybe this clears things up but you really need to read the whole post eer thread.
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LOTRO is not designed to be nearly as gear-centered as those games. So while your armor does mitigate, constantly upgrading your armor doesn't get you huge mitigation increases -- it's a very modest increase. The Guardian is designed to taunt, block and parry rather than simply be a damage sponge, for example. The nicer armor will have slightly nicer mitigation, but the key to the character's success is the character's skills and those skills being used well by the player in a particular situation, much moreso than whether he has +750 blah-blah. It isn't simply the case of assembling the most massive +whatever pieces you can find, as it is in some other games,and people are not used to that.
So, yes certainly the difference in mitigation between yellow and grey armor is not very great at all at the levels people are playing right now. In fact, some people have simply elected to wear all grey pieces while they farm for gold now in order to reduce repair costs and maximize profit, because the dropoff in performance at this level is really minimal.
Yet another reason why the game isn't exactly a "WoW clone", in my opinion.
Gear crazy games get old fast when people camp mobs relentlessly.. Or run through raids over and over and over again =P
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psyconius Cthulhu
Gothika Studios
I agree. Raids and end-game experiences shouldn't neccessarily just be about repeatedly doing the same things to get the gear that you basically "need" because of the way the armor system works.
Yes, I understand the points about wanting progession, rewards for upgrading and of course the concern for armor crafters. At the same time, item-centric systems where big differences exist can be bad for crafting as well in their own way. Even though I'm not a armorsmith (tinker w00t) I would have concerns on how it would affect it.
Although I haven't really noticed a huge difference I can usually tell when I've upgraded my armor, even if its a small difference.
On the whole, I like the idea of having less emphasis on itemization. And maybe armor differences become more noticeable at higher levels? (don't know). But this just seems a little bit too far the other direction imo. I don't see how the armor crafting professions will have any demand at all if it's this extreme. I think they should swing it a LITTLE more the other way, and maybe cut down the armor debuff that some of the mobs do, and how long they last (those bear debuffs are just too long imo).
Ok I don't like extreme itemization like Wow has either, but when my 15 guardian can take off his chain and put on starting armor, yep the stuff you buy when you are level 2 and end up taking about the same damage as with the chain, now that is beyond ridiculous.
Talk about swinging the pendulum too far the other way, this is beyond absurd.
I really feel sorry for the armor makers, why purchase their products, it makes so little difference.
My thought is thank you Turbine, for letting me play open beta so I could find this fact out before blowing my money on this game.
In my view this fact alone, pretty much seals the fate of this game as another also ran.
No offense mate, but there isn't much difference at low levels in all games. Designers need room to allow characters to improve ALL the way through the game. It comes a little at a time. Really, a mage can tank in almost any game up into the teens just as well as a warrior. It takes time for classes to flesh out.
The low levels are just about getting a feel for the game and tasting enough to set the hook.
If this game launches and the biggest problem is they need to rework mitigation I will be overjoyed. No game is beyond need of balancing just after launch, but LOTRO looks mighty polished so far. Especially compared to several other games at launch.
ya, i was kinda worried at first, but, if you play long enough you see its the whole package that matters. Armor, weaps, jewels,food, buffs, group buffs, traits, battlelore buffs...you cant make your char into God. You can make it more effective in one or two areas of your choice depending on what you want to do with your toon. And with all those things combined, there is a big difference. There is no paying 50 bucks to a farming site to twink out your level 10 to solo the great barrow. A new pair of leggins wont allow you to do something that is impossible for you now.
However, there is a balance that needs to be found. As someone said earlier, when people are farming naked to save on repair, some adjustment must be made. Lower repair too much..people will start using death as an insta travel. make armor value too much of a factor, then whoever has the most money has the best gear..for the people intrested in that kinda stuff. For the people who dont have the money..they grind. The whole game changes and everything 90% of the people are doing is for better gear. Then we'll need even better gear in the expansion..so we'll have to grind or buy again. And those are addictive gameplay mechanics. I'd rather be addicted to the immersion myself:)
I would expect some adjustments here or there, but I doubt you'll ever put on a helmet, and go OMG!!! this helmet rulez!! Or a new sword that makes you pwn at will in monter play. Remember there are tons of enhancement thru traits and everything else that make up the whole package. No one item or one trait or one buff will let you do anything more than you can already do. The certain combination of them all will let you do somethings better, another combination may let you do some other things. But no combination will make you better than anyone. No one will be the "dueling" champ because he dropped 500 bucks for gold and items.
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I know I should agree that gear centric games are bad, some of these posts are articulate and well argued.
Deep down though without a carrot on a stick I know I wont keep playing.
Well I dont know about carrots.... But armor does make a difference... It may not make a big difference in the lower levels... but that is partly because you are getting hit by the MOBs for a low amount... so an increase in mitigation does not amount to much in terms of actual points....
I agree. I hate gear depended games and becouse come to Middle-Earth. Gear is nothing, look at your experience and skills.
Massive Multiplayer Online Industry
You're only level 10. Try holding on to that armor and using it at level 20... you'll see a difference.
In closed beta, I had a Captain that was level 34. Armor values (while not as important in LOTRO as in some other games) do become more important as you level.. especially with the mods they offer.
There's no way you want to be running in the Trollshaws all nakie.
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JonMichael
Currently: AION, an MMO Beta under NDA
Played: WAR, LOTRO, Hellgate: London, CoX, GW, SotNW, DAOC, EQ2, SWG, WoW, AO, Horizons, Second Life, There, TSO
Beta'd: There, Second Life, EQ2, DAOC:LotM, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, Gods and Heroes, Hellgate: London, Requiem:Bloodymare, AoC, WAR, DDO, Fallen Earth
First of all, yeah, Armor Value is a nearly useless number. Don't use it. People are always mentioning armor value and it is only a vague indicator of what your character is actually doing.
"Armor Value" is basically the input to some function that calculates your armor's bonus to your Common Damage Mitigation. Your total CDM = Base CDM + f(Armor Value) + Mods.
Right now, the only thing that is known about f(Armor Value) is that going from 1 to 100AV gives more CDM than 1001 to 1100. I played a Guardian up to level 30-something in the last Closed Beta round. My shield by itself had over 400 AV on it, which was a big chunk of my total AV but counted for almost exactly 5% CDM. I think the other 700-800 points made at least 20%.
However, every time I actually went out and gathered data on my Guardians the CDM worked. The only weird thing was that without the armor I was actually getting hit for more than I'd calculated from with the armor on.
As in, if I had 35% AV with all my stuff equipped and something was hitting me for a minimum of 45 common, it should have an unmodified minimum damage of ~69 common. However when I took my armor off and tried again, I'd always end up recalculating the unmodified minimum higher than 69. I don't know why that is, but it actually ends up making the armor more useful.
So in your case, Armor Value is meaningless because:
1) No one knows what you mean by doubling it, you went from X to 2*X, if X is like 20 then going to 40 isn't going to help you a lot.
2) No one knows what effect that actually had on your CDM, which is the really important stat when it comes to this, not AV.
3) The mob could've been doing Fire or Shadow damage, theoretically, which would mean that your AV really doesn't matter against that mob.
4) The big thing is that the CDM actually works, afaik, like it says. If an even con level 10 mob hits you for 10 damage and you have 10% mitigation you'll take 9 damage (provided the 10 wasn't the mob's minimum damage I think). If that signature was only hitting you for 20's and 30's before mitigation, you wouldn't see a big change unless you were going from 10% mitigation to like 30%.