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Does D&D have pvp?

AbIeLAbIeL Member UncommonPosts: 152
in Dungeons & Dragons Online
Does D&D have pvp system?

Comments

  • BesCirgaBesCirga Member Posts: 806
    Do DDO have PVP? yes...Do D&D rules support PVP? no. This is the main reason i think a open world D&D MMO would not work. But what do i know, i dont even like the D&D d20 system. i even think its a bad/weak system. that being said, DDO has great PVE content and i still enjoy the game.
  • LasteraLastera Member Posts: 368
    Originally posted by AbIeL

    Does D&D have pvp system?
    Yes, but it's imbalanced due to class, race, level and equipment. Say if you're a dwarf fighter, you can get the same saves a paladin if you get your hands on resistance equipment and get the right class/racial enchantments while still doing lots and lots of damage with two-handed weapon. Will this get fixed? Nope, because the problems in PvP are linked mostly to PvE. In order to balance pvp, they would need to revamp the whole PvE system as well as the existing items within the game.
  • KaalinnKaalinn Member UncommonPosts: 121

    Originally posted by BesCirga
    Do DDO have PVP? yes...Do D&D rules support PVP? no. This is the main reason i think a open world D&D MMO would not work.

    Uhm.... which D&D rules are you referring to here? The Dungeon Master's Guide? Because its pretty easy to apply D&D rules to PvP actually. If you however refer to DDOs interpretation of D&D's rules and stats (like +14 to hit a friggin hobgoblin) that's more like it.

    Additional info for the OP: Note there is also NO friendly fire at all, not just for things like arrows and generally weapons, but also on spells that usually are a major hazard for your own party in any D&D session, such as Fireballs.

  • LasteraLastera Member Posts: 368
    Most of these guys on this forum haven't played PnP version of DnD so they pretty clueless when it comes to the rules. There were a lot of things not added from DnD because of how Turbine designed the game and their incompetency to actual recreate the rules. Besides the equipment, they are also a whole host of feats and spells missing that would have balanced things out just a little. Oh, well, you'll just have to enjoy what Turbine could provide.
  • random11random11 Member UncommonPosts: 765
    Like always, Last, you generalize, and use personal attacks.



    I have been playing DnD since I was ten, so I know the freaking ruleset inside out. And gave DDO a whole lot of thought, and came to the conclusion that they did the best adaptation they could, for an MMO. Remember, this is an MMO, not simple DnD audience, they have to compromise.



    You have no proof of what they messed up? They changed some things.



    I also play nwn2 regularly, and let me tell you, that game has a lot of messed up spells, DDO has them more correct.



    But you played to lv 4, how the hell would you know the implementation of DnD in DDO.



    PvP however should not have been added, there is no point, however a lot of people PvP, and mostly duel inside taverns. Sorc vs Sorc, cleric vs cleric ... etc.



    Cut the crap Lastera, we are fed up with your lies.
  • BesCirgaBesCirga Member Posts: 806
    Originally posted by Kaalinn


     

    Originally posted by BesCirga

    Do DDO have PVP? yes...Do D&D rules support PVP? no. This is the main reason i think a open world D&D MMO would not work.

     

    Uhm.... which D&D rules are you referring to here? The Dungeon Master's Guide? Because its pretty easy to apply D&D rules to PvP actually. If you however refer to DDOs interpretation of D&D's rules and stats (like +14 to hit a friggin hobgoblin) that's more like it.

    Additional info for the OP: Note there is also NO friendly fire at all, not just for things like arrows and generally weapons, but also on spells that usually are a major hazard for your own party in any D&D session, such as Fireballs.



    I was referring to both actually. Imo, a game which relay so heavly only on three different saves, cant become a good PvP system. Now, my PvP experience comes only from DDO  and its mostly based on lucky saves, not skill of the player.

    As i said i dont like DnD D20 system.. some because of the AC system, crowd control (mezzing..stun..hold etc) spells have to low cooldown timer, but mostly because of these three saves. Its a PvE heaven and  a PVP hell! (for me)

     

     

    Lasteras post isnt worth responding to, but i throw all my support to random11's post

  • LasteraLastera Member Posts: 368
    Originally posted by random11

    Like always, Last, you generalize, and use personal attacks.



    Again whom? If it were personal attack I would have been modded.



    I have been playing DnD since I was ten, so I know the freaking ruleset inside out. And gave DDO a whole lot of thought, and came to the conclusion that they did the best adaptation they could, for an MMO. Remember, this is an MMO, not simple DnD audience, they have to compromise.



    But you don't make up the majority of the players here.     Plus, what you just said was a lie because many MMORPGs have implemented ideas from DnD for some time now. Yet, Turbine can't implement a Ranger's pet. WoW's done it, EQs done it, GW has done and yet Turbine can implement a pet for the Ranger. Whoa, it looks like your word can't be trust since you say anything to make DnD look Golden. BTW, I'm not trashing the game, but merely telling him the truth about the PvP. Hell, Bioware and Obsidian manage to implement 90% of the feats, spells and skill into the NWN series and they aren't even a MMORPG.



    You have no proof of what they messed up? They changed some things.



    - Didn't have level 20 cap crippling the saves of certain classes.

    - Adding enchantments for both racial and class allowing certain races like the Dwarf, rival a paladin in spell saves.

    - Didn't add grapple. (Age of Conan allows you to grapple)

    - Able to get access to resistance items such universal saves, fortitude saves, reflex and will saves.

    - Took out spells that made certain classes good like magic weapon, greater magic weapon, holy avenger (Paladin can only obtain this weapon by buying it rather than casting it and he doesn't get an SR), magic fang (oh, wait ranger's don't get pets.). etc.

    - No curse song for bards.

    - Bull Rush.

    - Rogue can't reduce the base Dex of the person they sneaking. They only gain +2 to attack.



    The list goes on and on, and had they added the feats, took the enchantments and never added the high enchantment weapons/armor then PvP would be balanced because cleric would have to buff and heal their teammates, Fighter would have to depend on clerics and wizard for protection, wizard wouldn't have hard time hitting people with spells, etc. On top of that, there's no level restrict on who can participate in PvP.



    I also play nwn2 regularly, and let me tell you, that game has a lot of messed up spells, DDO has them more correct.



    Name some. Really, random11, I love to hear what spells are messed and I would love to hand that list of spells to my friends and see if they agree. NWN has since fixed it bugs and the works fine for those with update computers like myself. Currently playing a Wizard and the spell system is even more strategical than the on DDO offers. NWN spells have their own AOE zone.



    But you played to lv 4, how the hell would you know the implementation of DnD in DDO.



    I played enough to know that PvP wasn't implemented right.



    PvP however should not have been added, there is no point, however a lot of people PvP, and mostly duel inside taverns. Sorc vs Sorc, cleric vs cleric ... etc.



    BECAUSE YOU GUYS ASKED FOR IT!!! Just a few month ago, you guys bragged about how Turbine listened to you guys and now you see PvP as mistake. ROFL!!!



    I haven't spoken any lies, you guys are just forcing yourself to keep playing the game out of embarassment because Turbine continues to mess the game up with every discussion they make!

  • random11random11 Member UncommonPosts: 765
    Originally posted by Lastera

    Originally posted by random11

    Like always, Last, you generalize, and use personal attacks.



    Again whom? If it were personal attack I would have been modded.



    Not everyone reports, and I doubt these thread are read by many mods.

    I have been playing DnD since I was ten, so I know the freaking ruleset inside out. And gave DDO a whole lot of thought, and came to the conclusion that they did the best adaptation they could, for an MMO. Remember, this is an MMO, not simple DnD audience, they have to compromise.



    But you don't make up the majority of the players here.     Plus, what you just said was a lie because many MMORPGs have implemented ideas from DnD for some time now. Yet, Turbine can't implement a Ranger's pet. WoW's done it, EQs done it, GW has done and yet Turbine can implement a pet for the Ranger. Whoa, it looks like your word can't be trust since you say anything to make DnD look Golden. BTW, I'm not trashing the game, but merely telling him the truth about the PvP. Hell, Bioware and Obsidian manage to implement 90% of the feats, spells and skill into the NWN series and they aren't even a MMORPG.



    The world of DDO is not like any other MMO out there. The focus was on something completely different. Ranger pet is a valid issue, as well as implementing druid (actually I would really want that to be added). If you don't get how this MMO can't be directly compared to WoW, then I have nothing more to add.



    Nwn series did not implement everything correctly, sure nwn has since been patched up right, but you don't want to get me started about nwn2. I play nwn2 online, just for PvP, and let me tell you, it sucks. It's all about the usage of poorly implemented spells an d feats.

    You have no proof of what they messed up? They changed some things.



    - Didn't have level 20 cap crippling the saves of certain classes. Don't understand what you mean by this

    - Adding enchantments for both racial and class allowing certain races like the Dwarf, rival a paladin in spell saves. Enchantment system is revamped. And you were wrong, btw, nothing beats saves wise what a pally can offer, I know, I have one.

    - Didn't add grapple. (Age of Conan allows you to grapple) Did nwn, nwn2? No, they faked it.

    - Able to get access to resistance items such universal saves, fortitude saves, reflex and will saves. One of the things they changed (and I don't like this) is they made an item centric world. Oh did you know in nwn2 resistances stack?

    - Took out spells that made certain classes good like magic weapon, greater magic weapon, holy avenger (Paladin can only obtain this weapon by buying it rather than casting it and he doesn't get an SR), magic fang (oh, wait ranger's don't get pets.). etc. Yes, so did other DnD based games, but instead this has a lot of spell, that I didn't see in the nwn series.

    - No curse song for bards.

    - Bull Rush. Neither does nwn2

    - Rogue can't reduce the base Dex of the person they sneaking. They only gain +2 to attack. Wrong, play, check rolls, calculate it.



    The list goes on and on, and had they added the feats, took the enchantments and never added the high enchantment weapons/armor then PvP would be balanced because cleric would have to buff and heal their teammates, Fighter would have to depend on clerics and wizard for protection, wizard wouldn't have hard time hitting people with spells, etc. On top of that, there's no level restrict on who can participate in PvP.



    I have not seen balanced PvP in DnD ever. Name me one game where it is balanced. DnD is not about PvP.



    I also play nwn2 regularly, and let me tell you, that game has a lot of messed up spells, DDO has them more correct.



    Name some. Really, random11, I love to hear what spells are messed and I would love to hand that list of spells to my friends and see if they agree. NWN has since fixed it bugs and the works fine for those with update computers like myself. Currently playing a Wizard and the spell system is even more strategical than the on DDO offers. NWN spells have their own AOE zone.



    Everything from Pale master caster level progression, through max hd gained per level, to basic spells they messed up (bigby line, curse, lot of will save based spells). These all ruin caster classes. There are bazillion threads about this on nwn2.bioware.com



    But you played to lv 4, how the hell would you know the implementation of DnD in DDO.



    I played enough to know that PvP wasn't implemented right. Wrong.



    PvP however should not have been added, there is no point, however a lot of people PvP, and mostly duel inside taverns. Sorc vs Sorc, cleric vs cleric ... etc.



    BECAUSE YOU GUYS ASKED FOR IT!!! Just a few month ago, you guys bragged about how Turbine listened to you guys and now you see PvP as mistake. ROFL!!!



    I haven't spoken any lies, you guys are just forcing yourself to keep playing the game out of embarassment because Turbine continues to mess the game up with every discussion they make!



    Find me one post where I said PvP should be added. Like I said : DO NOT GENERALIZE! I do not play the game anymore, smartass, I play on and off periodically, it is not my favourite MMO, but hell, I give it credit for what it deserves.
    Get it through your head : this game is not PnP! It is a new game, yes they changed some things, but it works, and the feats and spells that are present all work, and have a purpose. While in nwn2 for instance half of the feats and spells are worthless, because they indeed screwed up.
  • LasteraLastera Member Posts: 368
    Originally posted by random11

    Originally posted by Lastera

    Originally posted by random11

    Like always, Last, you generalize, and use personal attacks.



    Not everyone reports, and I doubt these thread are read by many mods.

    They are read by mods, but I'm not doing any personal attacks and again whom did I attack?



    The world of DDO is not like any other MMO out there. The focus was on something completely different. Ranger pet is a valid issue, as well as implementing druid (actually I would really want that to be added). If you don't get how this MMO can't be directly compared to WoW, then I have nothing more to add.



    I'm sorry, but you seem to be ignore GW, EQ, NWN. Hell, Vanguard and other games with Rangers or Ranger-type classes have pets. Other games have similar skills and feats like DnD, yet they had no problem implementing. However, DnD can implement something like pet. That's slap in the face to DnD hardcore fans everywhere and for you to come excuse for Turbine is ridiculous. Simply put, Turbine cut a lot of corners when making this game.



    Nwn series did not implement everything correctly, sure nwn has since been patched up right, but you don't want to get me started about nwn2. I play nwn2 online, just for PvP, and let me tell you, it sucks. It's all about the usage of poorly implemented spells an d feats.



    ROFL! Like I said, 90% of feats, skills and spells were implement correctly. I didn't say 100% now did I? Several of the online servers are packed so if the PvP sucked that much people wouldn't be playing them.





    Don't understand what you mean by this



    I'll let you dwell on that.



    Enchantment system is revamped. And you were wrong, btw, nothing beats saves wise what a pally can offer, I know, I have one.



    Not much of change. You now can keep old enchantments.



    - Didn't add grapple. (Age of Conan allows you to grapple) Did nwn, nwn2? No, they faked it.



    Fake what? They never had it. Considering NWN is turned based MMO and DDO, they at least have excuse as to why they didn't implement certain aspects of the game.



    - Able to get access to resistance items such universal saves, fortitude saves, reflex and will saves. One of the things they changed (and I don't like this) is they made an item centric world. Oh did you know in nwn2 resistances stack?



    I believe in both games, enchantments for resistance items stacked and such items were a trial to get. Certain Online servers have the those items regulated.



    - Took out spells that made certain classes good like magic weapon, greater magic weapon, holy avenger (Paladin can only obtain this weapon by buying it rather than casting it and he doesn't get an SR), magic fang (oh, wait ranger's don't get pets.). etc. Yes, so did other DnD based games, but instead this has a lot of spell, that I didn't see in the nwn series.



    NWN has Holy Avenger (which gives SR), Magic Weapon, Magic fang, etc. Hell, the Bard has several different songs in this game that makes him several time more wicked than the DDO version.



    - Bull Rush. Neither does nwn2



    Knockdown. :-P



    - Rogue can't reduce the base Dex of the person they sneaking. They only gain +2 to attack. Wrong, play, check rolls, calculate it.



    Actually, it's the truth. It said it on the loading screen in game when I played. :-P





    I have not seen balanced PvP in DnD ever. Name me one game where it is balanced. DnD is not about PvP.



    NWN has the most balance of all PvP depending on what server you go too. If you go to a server with muchkin rules the game will be imbalanced, but if you go to a server were items are limited and certain builds can't be used then there is balance.





    Everything from Pale master caster level progression, through max hd gained per level, to basic spells they messed up (bigby line, curse, lot of will save based spells). These all ruin caster classes. There are bazillion threads about this on nwn2.bioware.com



    Crushing despair broke - will be fixed soon



    Cure doesn't heal as much - not broke, it changes with difficulty.



    Blade Barriers hurting caster - Fixed and working as intended.



    false life and bear's constitution adding a lot HP, fixed on last patch.



    just to name a few of the many spells that have been fixed in the last couple of patches or weren't broke at all.



    Wrong.



    Wrong on what because you weren't playing my game because I participate a little in pvp.





    And the last thing you said was probably the funniest thing you said. I would imagine the reason DDO has the lesser screw is because it offers less of the feats, skills and spells found in other DnD games.  But it still has it's fair of glitches. Dice roll doesn't work when switching targets, it takes a few seconds before it reappears. I know because my dice roll would have 11 for three swings before disappearing and reappearing. I've seen high level player super jump in the crypt in harbor with no jumping enchantments. In fact, I saw other players do it too. The physic of falls is somewhat broke because you can fall down a hole into water and die. Getting suck between the bars in one dungeon. Anti-exploit glitch on melee because monster don't have to be 3 feet in front of you to hit you while you can do nothing to do them. Trap failures that hurting people who aren't even in the area when the trap failure occurs. (This happen twice, once when I was near the trap and the group lead was way down the hall and the next time I was around the corner way of reach).
  • BesCirgaBesCirga Member Posts: 806

    DDO has the most balance of all PvP depending on what server you go too. If you go to a server with muchkin rules the game will be imbalanced, but if you go to a server were items are limited and certain builds can't be used then there is balance.

    ROFL

    How can people say something like this, look at what they wrote and still defend their game has healthy PVP?

  • random11random11 Member UncommonPosts: 765
    Originally posted by Lastera

    Originally posted by random11

    Originally posted by Lastera

    Originally posted by random11

    Like always, Last, you generalize, and use personal attacks.



    I'm sorry, but you seem to be ignore GW, EQ, NWN. Hell, Vanguard and other games with Rangers or Ranger-type classes have pets. Other games have similar skills and feats like DnD, yet they had no problem implementing. However, DnD can implement something like pet. That's slap in the face to DnD hardcore fans everywhere and for you to come excuse for Turbine is ridiculous. Simply put, Turbine cut a lot of corners when making this game.



    Turbine made a game that works very well in instanced dungeons, what the game was invented for. Rangers have enough pros to it.



    ROFL! Like I said, 90% of feats, skills and spells were implement correctly. I didn't say 100% now did I? Several of the online servers are packed so if the PvP sucked that much people wouldn't be playing them.



    Lies! More like 70% at best! They play, because they like it, but everyone will admit PvP sucks FFS. Read the damned official forums, and stop with the lies. Spells like the bigby line and feats like knockdown ruin PvP. PvP no longer has the variety a DnD game should have. Do you play nwn2 at least? Or you just talk lies about things you have no clue of?

    Not much of change. You now can keep old enchantments.



    Lots of change. Up until now pure classes were favored by the enchantments, now multiclasses are treated fairly (this was a problem in the past) Since you didn't play long enough, you have absolutely no clue what was wrong with the game, because it had faults, you just don't know them.



    Fake what? They never had it. Wrong! They faked it in : Evard's black tentacles, bigby's grasping hand. Considering NWN is turned based MMO and DDO, they at least have excuse as to why they didn't implement certain aspects of the game.If you knew DDO at all, you'd know it is also turn based!



    I believe in both games, enchantments for resistance items stacked and such items were a trial to get. Certain Online servers have the those items regulated.



    Lies! In nwn1 resistances didn't stack (as per DnD), neither in DDO. Don't give me the "some servers" line of argument, those servers were scripted by FANS not DEVELOPERS.



    NWN has Holy Avenger (which gives SR), Magic Weapon, Magic fang, etc. Hell, the Bard has several different songs in this game that makes him several time more wicked than the DDO version.



    Yes, bard could need a bit more love in that regard in DDO.



    - Bull Rush. Neither does nwn2



    Knockdown. :-P Feel tough? Try this on for size : trip in DDO.



    - Rogue can't reduce the base Dex of the person they sneaking. They only gain +2 to attack. Wrong, play, check rolls, calculate it.



    Actually, it's the truth. It said it on the loading screen in game when I played. :-P



    Just go on do the calculations, I know EXACTLY what i'm talking about. Works the same mechanic as hold person and stone to flesh in DDO.



    NWN has the most balance of all PvP depending on what server you go too. If you go to a server with muchkin rules the game will be imbalanced, but if you go to a server were items are limited and certain builds can't be used then there is balance.



    Again, don't give me the "some servers" argument, those servers are done by fans, not developers. Heck! Even the new official AI script of nwn2 was done by a fan. Yeah, OE is so much better than turbine.

    Crushing despair broke - will be fixed soon



    Cure doesn't heal as much - not broke, it changes with difficulty.



    Blade Barriers hurting caster - Fixed and working as intended.



    false life and bear's constitution adding a lot HP, fixed on last patch.



    just to name a few of the many spells that have been fixed in the last couple of patches or weren't broke at all.



    Dozen more skills/feats/spells not working. In fact, due to the hide/invisibility issues 40% of classes are potentially useless.

    Look here, I don't know why DDO frustrates you so much, and I don't want to know really. The game has problems, I never said it was an AAA title. But you have NO idea of what those problems are, I'm afraid.



    Also, you are not correctly informed about the games you comment on, you are not only wrong, but you also lie. Cut the crap. If your friends know the games, don't ask them for advice, make them post here, at least I know I have to argue with someone who knows the facts.
  • LasteraLastera Member Posts: 368
    Originally posted by BesCirga


    DDO has the most balance of all PvP depending on what server you go too. If you go to a server with muchkin rules the game will be imbalanced, but if you go to a server were items are limited and certain builds can't be used then there is balance.
    ROFL


    How can people say something like this, look at what they wrote and still defend their game has healthy PVP?
    Because unlike DDO, players have the freedom to make their own servers with their own rules, which is why NWN captures the spirit of DnD more so than DDO.
  • LasteraLastera Member Posts: 368
    Originally posted by random11

    Originally posted by Lastera

    Originally posted by random11

    Originally posted by Lastera

    Originally posted by random11

    Like always, Last, you generalize, and use personal attacks.



    Turbine made a game that works very well in instanced dungeons, what the game was invented for. Rangers have enough pros to it.



    Turbine made a game, but it wasn't DnD. The only thing the Ranger gets is empathy, which is useless and Strength bow. They are missing most of their useless spells and feats.



    ROFL! Like I said, 90% of feats, skills and spells were implement correctly. I didn't say 100% now did I? Several of the online servers are packed so if the PvP sucked that much people wouldn't be playing them.



    Lies! More like 70% at best!

    ROFL! And how much did DDO capture in the DnD aspect?



    Lots of change. Up until now pure classes were favored by the enchantments, now multiclasses are treated fairly (this was a problem in the past) Since you didn't play long enough, you have absolutely no clue what was wrong with the game, because it had faults, you just don't know them.



    No, I just played before the enchantment update because the game sucks with the enchantment system. Uber attribute boost and saves. And the enchantment system is still the same considering your enchantments are limited unless you cross class



    Faked what? They had grapple. Evard and Bigby's are strength rolls by the way.



    If you knew DDO at all, you'd know it is also turn based!



    No, it's real time because you guys don't rolls for turns. You get rolls for swings. Like I said, you say anything to make this game golden.



    Lies! In nwn1 resistances didn't stack (as per DnD), neither in DDO. Don't give me the "some servers" line of argument, those servers were scripted by FANS not DEVELOPERS.



    Actually, it did. Put on Cape of resistance and use a ring of resistance and the resistance will all stack. Too bad you never played the game to know this. The only thing that didn't stack was attribute enchantments. Now if you want to talk about DnD rules, magic items can't be paired with other magical items. I can't wear a Strength enchantment and Deflect AC enchantment item at the same time by DnD. Both DDO and NWN series breaks this rule.



    Feel tough? Try this on for size : trip in DDO.



    Knockdown = Trip and Bull Rush. Plus we get disarm.



    As for your comment about Sneak Attack.



    And again "Actually, it's the truth. It said it on the loading screen in game when I played. :-P"



    Again, don't give me the "some servers" argument, those servers are done by fans, not developers.



    Yep. Read my response to BesCirga as to why that's a good thing.



    Dozen more skills/feats/spells not working. In fact, due to the hide/invisibility issues 40% of classes are potentially useless.

    I took your exact post to the NWN topic and they noted they were only a few spells that didn't work correctly. The only uproar with the some of the spells was that some of them got spell resistances or saves. BOOYAH!!!



    As for hide and invisibility, they work. I just use the invisibility spell (or potion) not to long ago and passed the bandits with my Fighter. Hide is only useless in OC because the Spot and Listen checks of the NPC are high, but they work on the online servers. Lastly, concealment bonuses also work and so does darkness. Again, you're just saying stuff to make DDO look golden.





    Look here, I don't know why DDO frustrates you so much,



    Same thing I could say to you seeing as you lose sleep over the messageboards.
  • SevenwindSevenwind Member UncommonPosts: 2,188

    Random11 if you ignore it, it goes away. Said person's reputation is known on the forums so there is no need to justify anything to what this person says.

    Just look at the other posts in other forums where this person posts and people just ignore it and move on.

    Don't feed the troll and it will go away.

    .. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-

    --------------------------------------------------------
    Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.

  • LasteraLastera Member Posts: 368
    NOOOOOOOOO!!!! I've been insulted by a kid who takes messageboard matters too seriously. NOOOOOO!!! What will I do? My life is over. My reputation in two Turbine messageboard have been dragged through the mud. I can't with this shame anymore. I'm a trolls amongst trolls.
  • vajurasvajuras Member Posts: 2,860
    Originally posted by Lastera

    Because unlike DDO, players have the freedom to make their own servers with their own rules, which is why NWN captures the spirit of DnD more so than DDO.

    I wont comment on DDO but yeah NWN1 & 2 are reknown for giving the player (Dungeon master) the power to alter the ruleset for good pvp. There were some pretty popular NWN PvP Servers like Bastions Of War, etc in its day

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